Joe Rogan Experience #10096 — Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Boom! because I went in there like, man, I don't deserve this. doing anything with your children. And that's, that's, but then when I seen the athletes talking could do it but they don't know how to test the levels and that situation turned into a bigger And then when I was sitting there that night, I was looking at him. A lot of guys wind up saying they don't get the attention they deserve.

2:20 outside of justin gaethje justin gaethje i learned from this guy when it comes to mental. He's just ingrained with the strongest mental, and I love that part. pay your bills but the key is it's the athlete it's about them when justin when you came to I would just take, so right after wrestling was over, I would just be like, I want to fight. I'm going to tell you when he came into my gym.

3:58 I was like, dude, I'm a huge fan. And he's like, cool, yeah, I want to fight. I take him to the equipment. Like, no one else is wearing helmets. So I go over to him. I was like, I know that fucking hurt dude he's like you know Vinny looks like a mean all right. you've heard like five, That's the biggest thing for me. Having a trainer where you and the trainer are tight like that.

6:57 that's invaluable man these guys that are jumping into these super camps and the person is just sort So it's great for that. And when you're with them all the time, I pull back a lot on him. And knowing each athlete, each athlete is different. hitting his goals, not my goals. could really do some athletic stuff but he loved to see people drowned it's just

9:44 And I was like, what are you talking about? Now it's placement, timing is the most important thing there. to jump that's all you know every day i step in there that's what i'm asking him and um he is an he instilled that I had no idea he was instilling. these corners like you're the driver you're the one that that knows but you have to trust me it's, hey, don't take this fight. I mean,

12:14 It was like 11 days, right? And his little basic points, I looked at him. for everybody the first time was the the lamor california one the tai chi powers 18th yep april Felt great. I was down to 168. What's your go-to? during that and they're like it's like And now they want me to do May 9th. So you're not doing it because you fell out of camp and started eating again?

15:17 but because you weren't fully prepared because there's no way to fully prepare in that amount That's not something I ever process. Austin Hubbard when they fought in Vegas. Then he went and gained 12 pounds, which we were four weeks out of that point, You got that little fire back in your body because you're able to eat whatever you want. They're like a start to those last two weeks of peaking

17:20 that I'm trying to get him to peak, get hit Like if you had a blueprint, like they came to you, Trevor, Yeah. You're going to get hurt. That's all I've ever known. Give me three extra weeks, the day before he's like May 9th when they want me to dance I'm like, no, it's not the same thing. But ultimately, and then when I thought about it, I was like, if it's anybody's fault, it's my fault.

20:04 You want it for your mind as well. But I had done But when I first started watching you fight in World Series of Fighting, I was like, look at how this motherfucker throws leg kicks. UFC. I was a great defensive wrestler. stops that double-a I don't know it's you bad motherfucker shift between being But I gave up the first takedown in every single one of those matches

23:00 in the clinch the clinch is where I'm the most dangerous right i understand that but that's interesting that your wrestling allows you to do that from I'm like, I can't call that one. and I'm like, fuck, I wish I called that fight. hit hard and i just like i just look at him and i'm just like dude you just have so much fun in Because he's like, I'm fucking nervous.

25:11 That's when he was fighting Vic. Yeah, the Vic fight was very interesting because that was one of the first times I'm a human, man. And both of Eddie Alvarez won fight of the— And they were similar in the fact how I lost. And my only rule is never allow someone or something to affect or control your emotions. But it was super unique to be able to be a part of something like that with no crowd.

27:50 Weight was on the front leg, and he was pointed with the head. And Tony will push you back, hit you with combos all the way back to the cage. I'm like, what's your purpose? Always starts with position. war that reaffirms everybody's hopes Does that style only work on the lower-level guys? So then you make this adjustment. a decision i think it was a choice, obviously.

30:17 I was undefeated. I was like, I can't not break anybody. Judges' scorecards maybe don't resemble that, but I thought I was winning those fights. Oh, you didn't. And there's very few like me. And I think there's oftentimes where you would say, My mom said it once, probably four years ago. Right, exactly. And when you're fighting, you have to fight correctly.

33:09 You got right on top of that motherfucker, Yeah, it's crazy. Right. you're maxed out in your heart rate We didn't change much outside of So it was really... Also, too, when I'm watching him spar, I watch every session, You're controlling range, you're controlling position, and then waiting for mistakes. and control and then find one And I feel like that's what he's done really well.

36:09 not change. Keep going, because he's still kicking and punching. world if you listen to anything else on the outside and you start to adapt to other things Don't deal with it. And I have fighters say, man, you're always saying just positive shit. He turned sideways, did the move we were talking about, And I laughed. What? This one was actually a really nice cup.

38:43 So Dwayne Ludwig. But every time he takes a ball shot, I don't let him stop. What about a body? I did boxing, and boxing cups are the worst. I see people getting kicked with them. They sit in compression shorts, and they're tight. Yes, they are. So tight, and he's like, tighter, coach, tighter. Yeah. But it's also a giant lever for arm bars. Or a mount.

41:37 So when you're sparring, you don't ever feel vulnerable that your balls are just kind of like jiggling around there? That's one thing that is super unique for me, that I'm not going to be your father. When you lose a ball. No that was Randy Johnson He turned his leg So he throws his ball Middle of the game. Look at this. Unbelievable. It's a cup of ball.

43:59 How many pitches have been thrown? That said, each game, team throws around 150 pitches Yeah, per season, I guess, huh? Tell the truth. Okay, thank you. Didn't he work up, man? I'm sure you won't. I tell you, I was done. I found my wife't tricky at all. I tell you, I was done. And then the days where she pulled me back a little bit. You know, they get the shell on them.

46:21 Well, that's a good kind of yes man. and that's super unique. unless you're a sociopath you gotta know You probably didn't eat the right things. the piece of the shit if you're an asshole, if you do mean Those are the hardest guys you lose all of a sudden everybody drops their head they feel bad for you they're like oh my god Because, first of all, fighting is so much more exciting than anything else you're ever going to do

49:44 There's so much riding on it that for fighters, when they leave that and then they go to a regular life, like a lot of times it's very difficult, very difficult to make that adjustment. You have to set those goals. And I think that's super important because you can only do any sport for so long. Very hard. Like, again, it's, you know, I'm kicking my ass.

51:32 And I don't, I try to, I'm constantly in the middle. You're not special. Yeah. a champion. But he did Yeah, it's definitely not a real belt. Yeah. It was awesome. It better come with it. This is way different. and I'm going to lose, and I'm probably going to get knocked out. But that's the key to him. And making them to believe you have to force your head into something to make something happen.

54:22 When someone hits rage, like someone says something about your mama, I'm always like, they don't even know your mama. They get emotional, and they go out there, and they wind up making mistakes. Fuck, what the fuck? Because – and they're like there's so much leveled off Especially when you're talking about a body type, Is it a choice to go to sleep or not?

57:01 I love jiu-jitsu because it's position before submission. and using a jab to find openings They just bite down. create your reactions. I'm going to create your patterns, your basic fundamental patterns. That's But then when you leveled off in that third round, How stunned were you that Tony could take those shots? especially the one when I came through and he was throwing an uppercut,

59:28 It was everything a knockout shot should be. and they don't go to sleep. That's huge piece because if you don't see a yank brace in forward, I've got my head carrying my weight and able to take the shot. Hey, your low kick? It's so unique. Well, They can't run it out. That guy doesn't seem like he's from this planet. years he goes the the ligaments the tendons in his eye are three times

1:02:25 That guy who was built like a fucking superhero and just threw people around like ragdolls, 300-pound men. That's crazy. I wonder if there's any doctor out there Well, there's something about guys I think there's something to that. And there's just so much involved with that. timing you can control when you punch and that is such it's a dance there's there's a lead when

1:04:45 People who are born with gifts and going back to how people just punch differently. He's got crazy power. And the guy, every time he hit someone, they were reacting big time. But that cost him when he fought Anderson. It's all timing. And if you're constantly changing rhythms, they can't find a pattern. It's my intuition. That is the most important thing of any fight that will ever happen in a fight,

1:07:09 and then wound up fighting just a few weeks later for real, You know, he's a 170-plus-pound guy. I weighed 178 that day. I'm never a person who sets something in stone and say that's a good thing or bad thing. I honestly probably would that cut so much weight the week of the fight that i think that's a huge issue so i really None of my guys cut a lot of weight.

1:09:11 work. We did one workout at night for 20 minutes sat in the sauna for 10 and then i was on weight oh that's amazing it was the easiest everyone uh everyone talks about how i talk for one i talk fast i've always talked fast That doctor sounds like an asshole. You also just have to think about the fact that you're just constantly getting hit in the nose.

1:11:10 I've seen so many people get surgery. Yeah, exactly. Like daytime I had it broken. Shane Carwin. Oh, yeah. And he'd hit me and broke my nose with a jab. And I was like, I turned back. They all talk like this. Oh, my gosh. Dude, crazy. Just like falling backwards. Crazy, dude. And the way the guy's body bent and went numb, I was like, oh, my God. I had a collar tie, and he's hitting him with uppercuts.

1:14:45 And he bumped the shoulder and then went boom, boom. Mentally, he wasn't there like when we fought Dos Santos. Because he went with Brock and he gassed out. We wanted to get back up because the ref was just letting it go, coach, I can't feel my legs. the silverback's going to come back out. That close. out of there. but I was like, which kind of controversial stoppage.

1:16:56 you they're a lot of times they it's hard they got to perform too they go out there they stop a fight It's like taking years off a fighter. It was perfect. His legs were starting to go a little bit. I already know that. He has a striking coach. He does whatever he wants. she threw so many damn kicks. on the ultimate fighter then she came in for that title fight and i was so upset with myself

1:19:15 And that's why I use less coaches now. Like, who's talking? in the UFC, in combat sports He was like a fucking alien. That guy that you're letting this guy take testosterone. And then he uses his doctor again with the TRT. He's just so trustworthy. How do you know how much you're freaking taking? Yeah, the doctor probably, like a lot of these doctors, especially TRT doctors,

1:21:47 like Vitor when he fought Chris Weidman was like, Jesus Christ, this is weird to see. I don't even know if I'm going to fucking fight because that brainstem thing, It's crazy. Dana asked him a quiz job. He was going to pay him more. Very bad. I mean, he got to pre-train for preseason, and then he never went through. Because of his back So all the fighters left.

1:24:03 because the way their him like this and say that he's doing this when you Because they needed someone to fight. and I've always been at Home Depot this is you know right when I was like cause yeah It's like when I – even when we win, I see the other person lose. like, I jumped up on the canvas. Like, here, we're stopping him. So I started sewing in the gym, and then I moved into my basement and i was like you know what i want to start something

1:27:11 Your wrist is that fucked up? I think it's just created my ligaments and my hand is shaped that way. It's one of – like I'd go in the hot tub and push my fingers and try to separate them and it'd be like the most painful thing ever. I had sponsorships by companies. I said, can I borrow your sewing machine? And I was like, cool, pay for the materials.

1:29:07 And the hand issues and the training issues that I was always dealing with, I could name a guy who's had how many surgeries? And once I started doing this equipment, it clicked. that heavier weight on there, you're causing Just to prevent cuts. but each time get a little better, a little better, a little we had to cut into his gloves one time But when it comes to the glove,

1:31:31 Against yourself just to make a face is constantly you the natural thing This is the UFC glove. Okay. actually has a uh he's one of the cut men he has a wood tool that's the end of a hammer that stretches these out Constantly, you have to use your forearms. Yep. Oh, this is way better. So this is far superior. I've put six years. Like the finger pokes is one thing.

1:34:53 Protected, which is huge. That's the lead break in our sport. It is. But I cut their glove up to see what foam they're using. No. Again, it's up to the manufacturer to be able to produce. So again, I don't want to talk shit about their glove. Like it's crazy to me. It's crazy. Okay. That's not good. it's like doing a push-up on my door-docking knuckles.

1:38:00 and not having to pull out of a fight. NFL, you go to any other sport league, all equipment is tested. You know, how many times are they testing stuff in other sports? like yeah but you play every week so you're fighting every week so it's a whole different Like where are the standards when it comes to training? Okay, so Velcro's on the top. It's like it's not keeping you from...

1:40:09 I run into a knee. No, you can tell. It's just cheaper. He had this one foam, the EVA cheaper foam, and Justin's dropping The faster you hit it, the more you And in boxing, you're not allowed to spar with the gloves you're hitting bags with because you break the foams in. made you have this instep and you got the soft spot on the weakest part of your foot yeah knee

1:42:47 And another pet peeve of mine, when I'm a coach and I've got a world-class athlete You cover your toes, actually have flex where your toe goes. It just drives me crazy. top-level athletes, when they put this on, it's Trevor, you sent me some of this stuff before, and I've raved about it. You put a hair dryer in there for four minutes to watch what happens, dude.

1:44:34 Yeah. So we separate the foot size because you think like Rashad Evans. this glove i love you hey i spent two years there and again dana gets it i don't want to sell this They don't understand the issues that I deal with. Again, you don't know what you don't know. Right? Right. when you order our shin guards think about Tim Means right now we're currently scanning all UFC athletes that want to get scanned because we want to test it That's crazy. We did 3D scans. Who was there? Because I wasn't there for that. We have a 3D body scan.

1:47:03 I use those as MMA fighters. We spar two times a week. One day it's 16-ounce gloves are bag gloves? Or do you use them... I use those for... As MMA... That's a 5-glove. something ounces all the way down to like like 2.9 ounces is for the uh uh for flyweight yeah fly got. It's got sensor points on it I'm like, what am I testing against? Do you like it?

1:48:28 I know what a glove feels like on the inside. wraps that I actually stepped away the day because I'd be like, when I was fighting, I was like... Because you think about what do you need a hand wrap for? so if i were grabbing on to something the more material I have in between my hand. Let me see that foam real quick, the yellow foam. If I'm not lining my strong bones up, meaning my metacarpals down with my strong bone, I'm not getting the correct alignment in my fist.

1:51:11 any kind of flex here is never have done it when I was fighting. Do they force you to wrap your hands in the UFC? when you start packing too much material, like the hand wraps, 120 inches, that's where What do we have to do to get this into the UFC? Century was doing it. But again, my goal, Joe, with issues of people having crappy gloves. They want to own it?

1:53:02 No, we're our own company. That's a different thing. Now I got access to great making gloves that way I've tried so many. It will be. He's put it on. But for the people listening, I mean, if you're a martial artist Right. I had these high Adidas. Get my gloves off. Yeah, yeah. All it does is cause more pressure when you add a little bit, anything under there.

1:55:46 I actually make pocket holes for the knuckle where the padding would be on a hand wrap. say when i so that's what always made me unique is people like my dad told me in the boxing world He knew what it looked like before it came out. It is a huge market. buying the boxing gloves. MMA equipment. Literally. hey Mace, do we have a fight? Really? That's Corey.

1:58:19 And how long did he wear that in training for? but he was in there with the plastic piece and i was making headgears at the point and i was like But look at the cut on his eye. That's genius shit, man. He was blown away. Barehanded. And it's heavy. Rice is really fun to hit, but it packs because it's got that little angle to it. I've had bags fall apart, and there's lingerie falling out.

2:00:24 You know the ball that I'm talking about? You know what that is? It's is cool. It's a water bag. But do you notice what it is? You know the ball that I'm talking about? Where is the technology? Every freaking time. I can't even get them here. in the United States. You're not going to get any scratches. Just made cheaply. and be like, alright, cool, you're fighting in two

2:02:23 and just, again, create some type of standard. Onyx, you see the one-on-one? The Y is internal. out there this industry would be nothing man super cool that's very cool stuff huh yeah it is fun Leave me alone. I got the tape in the middle. Monday, I was in the office. He'll make a headgear. that's kind of is Muhammad Ali it's crazy right See, in a fight glove, I still think it's about the fight.

2:04:48 I think it'll eliminate a lot of those. It's going to prevent a lot of knuckle breaks. We fight like four inches farther than boxers. At long range, You're about two feet that you're so pumped up about it. I had to make myself good ones. And I test it first. Super cool. there to make you more explosive, It has to be sport-specific. So you have them doing strength work and stability work, and the conditioning is all done with fight training. With fight training.

2:07:18 If I start seeing him get lazy or he might make a stupid mistake or he's just tired through the week. We change that throughout the fight. is off of training camps. right after sparring so his legs are shot. my best time yeah you hit really good one last time but it again it's a the legs are key okay Yeah. It's like rolling. I want to push it. I was like 850-something.

2:10:18 Oh, it's a funny shit. He ran 100 miles in, I think it was 11 hours and 40 minutes total. That's a lot of patience. Like, very interesting, You like any books? So I've been just listening to the sound of my feet and breathing. biking in an area that has a high concentration of rattlesnakes but i ran over one once with my and I'm like, oh my god, it's a fat

2:12:42 Can I ask you a question? And the time I was talking with the guys out there, No. And then the guy's, the girl's husband got mad. because if I choke him then I'm doing something to him So in that time of your life, did you know where you'd be? you have come a long way, bro. I just enjoy what I do, so I keep doing it and I try to do it my best. I'm good, man.

2:15:10 Fair factor was a job. I'm like, oh, Christ. they have to act like they want to be around them. It's so real. I'm glad. it, but some places were actually upset that I was shaking people's hands. So the thing was, I'm back in the locker room I know the fucking rules. You need to have and everything that I'm doing. I'm there for him and his It's zero risk.

2:17:31 Didn't even know he had it. drop drastically for the flu heart disease heart attacks, it's gonna be Can't go anywhere. It was nice. It's going to be dangerous once it reopens again. And it felt real different. All the fights, though. me and Tony to go fight Two days. And then all of a sudden you're at different tables. What are you talking about? I don't dislike him.

2:21:02 He didn't just say it. Anything through blood. Smarter than we think and said it We're all talking about him I hit him so hard because I was scared he was going to touch me and get that corona on me. I mean, if you wanted to say, okay, what kind of style do you think would work against a guy like Khabib? But Khabib's whole game is, you know, he's a great grappler as well.

2:22:58 if that, of takedowns in the actual beaten down by that point. Yeah, that was late too. Right. It's business. I mean, Henry's a special guy. But I respect his choice. vacate the title like he has, I believe that was him playing his cards. Right. not even at the peak like with that with the Morris fight and in that DJ fight, It was like taking an ass-kicking for a round

2:26:28 Then he came back later. But I do think it will be on his terms, which is ultimately all he's fighting for right now. God, I hope they have a fucking audience. Now, I know Vegas is going to at least allow some audiences in July, supposedly. pro sports. With an audience? It's the biggest challenge of his career. And that is what made Chuck Liddell great.

2:28:24 Watching him wrestle and what I mean, the thing about Tony's style is that Tony can fight off of his back. Totally. I'm never kicking above the knee anymore. Really? But from the outside, you can fire it at a different distance. Just like Michael Chandler and Bell. It has to be in the middle. So. I don't know anything. Yeah. It's like fucking that movie Contact where they zoom in, zoom in close and you see the

2:31:22 He won't tell me. Yes. I want to know if I can get back right yeah that's the This weekend's a tough fight, man. It might be of the Apex. It's the wild, wild west. it's gonna force guys to engage 20s almost too small 20 small but this is 25. you found a square You were like signing people for fights. Are just the best The day after a fight That was some entertainment for me.

2:34:19 We could have had a conference room. and there's like 12 people. where you're like, It's just, This is different. It's weird. You just go blank. Really? And then the tunnel just closes. And it just closes and it's over. I'm as present as I can possibly be while still able to rely on my reactions and my intuition. Like, right now I'm seeing him doing it with my nephew,

2:37:39 um and my weird ocd when i'm driving in cars as a kid, anytime there was a shadow cast on the road, and I never knew why. No one will beat me. Do you think that's a possible fight? So that's what you want to do. With Usman or you? There's no, you know, if you're a fan of the sport. But now you're going to call for a title shot? But there is a small chance that

2:40:48 I mean, this is a weird game. And so you winning the way you did and it feels like that was part of my destiny, I can inspire the world. If you have to put an argument for yourself, you are not that man. Stay irrelevant. He said, Connor says he's fighting Justin next. 100%. I look at it from a consistency standpoint. I don't know how the, man, pick a weight class, be consistent. He's so big for 145. I know.

2:43:40 When I saw them, Usman was posting photos of that. He's a big dude. So when I was looking at that, I was like, wow, is that really happening? So that's when Conor's talking about 70. who's not a real 170. and then what do you do? What do I need after that? I think you have more leverage beating Khabib. If I fight them two And I really hope I'm there in September when you guys fight.

2:45:59 But this was the second. Bye, everybody. the second yeah it was fucking awesome yeah i appreciate it yeah all right thank you guys thank you bye everybody