Joe Rogan Experience #10098 — Luke Thomas Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day Basically. I got there early in the week and the casino was empty. It's Native American territory. so that that is interesting that if it's on native american ground they can kind of do whatever they that if you have it below your nose you're not doing anything i know i was like just take it off

2:34 Go to his Instagram page. Look at this. spirit of innovation here but this is a black mirror episode right it is it is it is well you You're not getting sprayed with this huge amount. And I'm not like, you know, till 4 a.m. Yeah, you want a drink? But you know what? they're all fine now but super fucked up these They're all fine now, but super fucked up.

5:01 and you do that day after day after day. Right. The policy failures of the world are just pushed onto you. in a lot of problems and the job that like now good luck trying to find really intelligent people For others, thank you. It's still Austin. Salud. like you're an actual police officer and you never learn how to you don't even know how to And some of that is true

8:19 the 29 Palms is out there. It was the nicest gym I'd ever been in in my life, McMap is shit. outside of what law enforcement was providing them but like they this is what i mean they don't get And I think he's right. I'm sure he was well-intentioned, but he was like – I think Henry Gracie had some similar ideas because he really believes in the transformative power of jujitsu right um i do i

10:52 But I would hope. I would mandate it just because you're going to have situations where people have hand-to-hand experiences. time i wasn't there for about a few months over the summer. But during that time, I recognized a really clear us versus them mentality tackles this kid who had stolen one of their golf carts, And people, and I was lifting weights like crazy,

13:41 a certain kind of person, oh, he's big and tall You're like, dude, you have a fucking death wish? No. because there was a time where it was like is jujitsu really all that good and they'd make But it's kind of crazy when you think about You have a quote. Maybe it was like one of the Miami shows, whatever it was. Like, guns. 93 on, relative to before it, it was this sort of slow process and then it hit overdrive.

16:54 them to do right my whole life i was like i want to know what would happen if you got a judo guy And he said, You know, It was the debut of Vitor Belfort. But he was using the last name Gracie. He was so fast and so aggressive and so different And all of a sudden, you've got this guy who's wearing gloves, because nobody else is wearing gloves, or very few people.

19:25 I think I may have even said Victor a couple of times during the broadcast because that's It's like they call Kamaru Marty. Everybody called him Peter for a long time in the UFC. Right. of heavyweights, you have to have Fedor. I know. He's not there to give. I was a 12-year-old kid at the time. as I understand it, it was explained to me General Chae Young-yi, he was the guy.

22:06 well god yeah For me, it was 2. And it's been politicized now. was the name that radio rahim came up with for the radio rahim the uh boxing commentator he came up gloves weren't attached correctly, that he was his water was poisoned by his own trainer and Mark Breland was a I don't know if I would have thrown that towel. Well, Tyson Fury changed his strategy.

25:37 his father didn't want him to take the fight. And then he took on the crunk trainer, Sugar Hill. Instead, Tyson Fury just came right at him oh, the way to beat this guy is to back him up right and then he took that strategy sugar hill of course like cronk legendary aggressive He's so long and has such good trunk movement. I mean, the Wilder fight was much better.

27:54 And I always talk about this. They basically say, like, how is it possible you can have people come from this little And Volkanovski has trained under Brad who trained under Eugene. they don't really believe that's the best way to do it. And you could see, it's like, it's really weird. It's one of the best right hands in the history of the sport. And Ortiz is down with a look in his face like, what happened?

30:12 He was winning the fight. I don't know that he's got the full repertoire. and then smoke some weed beforehand. And then they felt it in the roof of their foot. You know what I mean? There's a bunch of them. stands out about him at least Wilder is huge right he's bricked up makes sense Munguia is in is in Oh, God. This fucking, look at him. that's crazy

32:38 wait till you see what he does my god look at his face joe it's pretty crazy he looks like he got attacked by a bear now did they So he's left-handed, Joe. Pause it right at the moment of impact. It's on the inside angle. every time i've interacted with him he's the sweetest guy he's a great guy he was about to Santa Cruz opened up. Like, he was engaging with the guy.

34:56 Tyson Fury and Dominic Brazil, is that what it was? And so he had been used, and he had gotten so confident the ultimate heavyweight champion fur coat, I'm not bashing him for it. on top of the world. How do you do that? Especially when you have, you know, he doesn't have the widest skill set you know what i mean i mean literally Just, I mean, I'm a fan of his.

37:04 And he was... kids he's like five or six of them and i've like six of them. I just had a kid about 18 months ago, Breland, He was. on his left hand he was like you already know you could put people to sleep with your right hand he he was like this one's normal but you look at this one his left look at his left he's got that them and his speed, his foot

40:02 He was a showman, too. He fought world champions. they're fighting me. He's a savage. but he closed the gap and then wound up finishing with a triangle off of his back i mean god damn It's 22 seconds from that till the finish. He was very diligent about that in the Alvarez and the Gaethje fights. He doesn't care about it anymore. So he goes, double, turns, pushes hands to the mat, forces Gaethje down,

42:50 This guy is out here taking fucking pity on his opponents, I think if you look at Jon Jones' early career, right? John was smashing people. He pulls it out in the championship round, even though he's out of shape, though you talk to greg jackson he didn't train for that fight didn't You know, it was spectacular. Maybe the second round against Justin.

45:28 something but in a sport built on unpredictability yeah on violence uh you know saint pierre went to Ever. it's not, put the, for just a second. everything that happens right now is just recency bias and khabib retired and his father died and like there's no chance i'm smoking joe rogan's fucking super weed there's no chance i'm He's always in phenomenal shape.

47:47 I mean, you talk about not training for the – No. of time off in boxing? Floyd Mayweather Like the Maidana first fight with the corkscrew punch. John was doing things like not training between camps. Yeah. Probably. well you know that's a famous uh story about bj penn like bj penn's crew like they would just that there are probably some net benefits to it right on balance there's going to be some downsides

51:40 he was so far ahead of the game so naturally talented so athletic he could just on that kind of a thing, by virtue of my 2005 middleweight tournament in Pride? No. Who the fuck does that? Not like in the fuck you kind of sense, but like, I'm going to fight you in a way where athletic brothers like they all beat the fuck out of each other right like matt hughes and mark hughes

54:14 But it doesn't also say something like, great you know it wasn't like a tremendous difference but in general usually one like Do you have any siblings? and it's like, that is so divorced from my reality There's only so much you can do when you've got... Can you imagine if you had Arthur Jones, Chandler Jones, and John Jones in the backseat of the car and they want to slap each other?

56:08 He's at the little bit of the latter stage of his career at this point. Yes, he was a wrestler for a time. Arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time. God damn it. Steve Mocko's hilarious. He's like, you know, some particular strategies weird thing? Well, real quickly, I'll tell you real quickly. And they ask Steve Mako, as a college student, Whoa.

58:56 he had a very good relationship with him other people and they didn't know either in fact i talked to his manager malki at the time i met opportunity i had a discussion with john where he was uh he was thinking like why did i go bad on I get hit in the head for a living. They have a harder, But that's less my issue. which I'm not even sure that's even true anymore.

1:02:29 And, like, I've had intermediaries reach out and be like, hey, man, like, what's the issue? It's not possible. incredibly biased because that's the only sport that I've ever covered. But I get why they feel And my position, I come to it a little bit differently, right? or that everything they do is above reproach. Now, as the UFC makes more money, 20%, the percentage might stay fixed, but the amount of money can go up.

1:05:28 That's just the way that it goes. could be high support for it, but we don't know because it's a compulsory, uh, demand that they was a way to offset fighter pay. I want to be friendly. It's coming for you. They have covered this multibillion-dollar lawsuit that is happening. monopoly and they believe they are entitled are he's going to which means that trial will proceed.

1:08:14 Are you talking about this? I don't know. and also MMA Payout has done thing goes away and it's a long-term projection like we're not in anywhere close to any kind of Now, what the solution to that is, is very debatable. It was passed, I think, by John McCain, I want to say around 2000 or so. So it's a Strikeforce title. it's a mix between the boxing and pro wrestling model

1:11:18 Then I stopped because of the nature of my job changed and I didn't have the opportunity to really, I was just so engrossed in the MMA world. I forget what it's called, but it's some bizarre name for the belt. At that point, if they're an actual union, your own endorsement the teams might have some kind of individual sponsor but if you're a lebron It's that middle class.

1:13:56 similar positions in their division, actually from the same If you look at the Google Analytics, So you have two people that roughly commensurate. that there are sections of the boxing world that There's no cavalry coming. It could change the procedure for how this goes forward. you're asking what percentage they pay out it's mid 40s mid 40s to what to their uh so that's

1:16:31 And it's like, listen, man, if you've ever been broke, and someone came in with a lifeline, There is no more debate about fighter pay. I wish I was making that up. half of the ufc's money from espn do you get what kind of cut do you get from pay-per-view and how ufc has a tremendous staff which they've kept employed even during the pandemic they never let

1:18:34 they have something that doesn't I'm not advocating for a world where we make UFC suffer. And you see them at the end there, and they got shit to show for it. Yep, yep. And I owe it to the fighters to say there is a situation where you could be making more. And so teams are competing. Right. They have their own. if the fighters have rights. You don't get that. You don't get a model where you can have all this

1:21:33 oh, we can just keep fights going. the court documents. He'd be again, let's imagine the pandemic doesn't exist for a moment. They either have or it's already Do you want an institute in Shanghai, I'm never anti-UFC. I just think about the fighters. But I think they should be paid as much as they can be paid. In order for it to be something that they can promote

1:24:22 who's a superstar like a conor mcgregor or kamib norma gamedoff or uh israel adesanya or john jones they're gonna make a shitload of money He was like, I'm retired. money when there's not a stadium obviously you realize that stadiums bring in a significant Pre-pandemic, it was the same thing. about 850 and k and some change then the second one's a very good number but it's like john has

1:26:29 Oh, my God. This is what I mean, though. That's the sweet spot there. I have zero idea. He has very little leverage. A business is going to do what a business is going to do. They were smart businessmen. is a very good example of I really am ignorant to the ESPN deal. And they're going to meet that quite easily this year and good for them. I'm glad. Again, the UFC staying in business

1:29:52 understands this, so double-check it. I asked the guy who wrote the article. have not seen the documents myself well here's what i can say for certain they get a stipend So the point being is, what they have done pieces of revenue that And Jorge has just fucking exploded to a megastar, and he's all too willing to play ball. substantially more to fight at heavyweight because he said the risk was higher and that was where the

1:32:26 I don't know. Where do you see that? But the point being is this, Joe. So you think the future is a union? You'll never talk about it. I don't think it's up to me to media i don't think we can solve this problem you know it's really Leon Edwards is a top five guy, right? I mean, you look at how good he is. donald cerrone you know uh beats uh hafel dos anjos i mean he's a world-class fighter and

1:35:29 if you wear dead animals on your head, Guillotined him, yeah. a ton of buzz on them. I hate that fighters have to talk shit. Oh, he's very, very good. on his head, bro. Look at him. Sure, being in Europe, being in the UK. And here was the key, man. Whatever it was, they had this story about him growing up, This is it. but I want to know more. and there's also the opportunity that comes with guys inevitably getting injured

1:38:54 there was this dude he fought in he's he made most of his fights in brave which is the uh the Let's strike. He's a 170 fighter. This is the guy I was telling you about. This guy he's knocking out is not a chump at all. anytime there's something frozen in the air, it's a bad knockout. What a humanitarian. like less effects of it? But you look at him, and he seems fine.

1:41:01 The way he communicates in Portuguese is all fucked up now. He got one-armed guillotine against Luke Rockhold And then if you look at the numbers, the best round Bisping had in any round in that fight But thought the referee was going to step in and stop it. Yeah, it's not people think it's all we just get back up and well listen. We're not with this is small potatoes

1:43:24 seemed a little surprise oh yeah a little surprise on that right to finally achieve what seemed like... And the fact that he KO'd Rockhold with that beautiful left over the top like that, The Kung Lee fight, Taekwondo kicks In retrospect, I'm a little less surprised by that And then Bisping was like, what the fuck is going on here? steroids, and then your endocrine system's all fucked up. So you go to a doctor, the doctor

1:45:31 I was like, yeah, you could. He wasn't particularly shredded, particularly ripped. on him, like, look at that picture where they're touching gloves. making weight right that's that's when you had to make weight that wasn't the unofficial weigh-ins you would have Vitor during those dominant years. And they'd be like, they tested him one time when he was in Vegas and he was just off the charts.

1:47:30 And Jon was upset with that, right? so fucked from the Vitor fight. Did you? Is that a part of the medical. What's it? um but yeah Jesus Christ I know it's like why why would you fight why would you fight for a living It was, I think, a season or two ago. They – He had to get, I think, a dozen. No, the one you just had. Okay, ready? Over the course of how long?

1:51:07 Look at that. Yeah, again, it wasn't in half. $18 million on his year off, by the way. To the full extent of that, over all the different things you were breaking There's the argument. There's the monopoly argument, right? Yeah, well, MMA in general. I want to make sure I don't blame just UFC for all these problems. And that's on NBC Sports, right?

1:53:11 No, it wasn't the PFL. I forget. heavyweight crown um brandon vera by the way at heavyweight looks fucking phenomenal over there Yeah, Ong La, I don't know. I believe so. is now with Trevor Whitman and he realizes that him and Gilbert Burns are going to have Do you remember the quintet that UFC did? and these MMA guys are usually pretty good at this point,

1:55:55 He can pass. thick like he's walking around well over 200 pounds i mean he's thick as fuck right and you It's really, really good. That is fucking frightening. Good luck fighting that fucking guy on the ground. Very underrated wrestling. for Masvidal. Oh, yeah. I'm sure you know that. I'm just saying for the audience's sake. Very underrated wrestling.

1:57:44 Don't you find the ascension of Jorge kind of funny? somewhere in the suburbs of D.C. No, it was Chad Mendez and Ricardo Lamas in the main event. like you're gonna fucking boo me you're gonna fucking boo me? You're going to fucking boo me? He talks about how he went on that stupid reality show where they made him live in the jungle for a couple of weeks.

1:59:12 What did he do? murking of Nate Diaz. I mean, combination. I mean, he's a monster. the real question is whether or not Ben Askren can get a hold of you. He can do... and sort of shared experiences. Like, he stands straight up. and then running at him and ben asker like the corner, and then running at him. And Ben Askren, like, instincts just dove in, and he couldn't help himself.

2:02:04 Folks don't know how smart he is. and you're not coordinating it, something is happening here. Bodog, for people who don't remember, Calvin Ayers, who's like this big gambling guy. That was where Cain Velasquez made his debut. Why are you deciding where people can gamble? thing had a big billboard you like I don't remember what it was but I think it was one of those things

2:04:33 See if you can find that. I think they should be able to gamble. Yeah. Again, don't sue me. Jake Ellenberger fought there. middle and they would do this shit during the middle of a fight yes it would fuck people up I'm a big fan of his. So Jeff has a memorabilia else. Uh-uh. Bodog, yeah. this is in the middle of an ice rink jeremiah constant oh he's about to you got you got fat

2:08:08 You look at Anderson's career and I actually went over it last night because I knew I was going to talk to you today. He beats Derek Brunson by decision, but he loses every other fight. and then Patrick like hell on wheels in the first couple of rounds and he was like screaming at Damian Maia. maybe it was the fifth round. I'm just saying at that moment.

2:10:36 Like, what is that thing? He did hit him, and then Anderson decided to coast. That was an external thing. But folks don't realize this. This was and my then girlfriend, and after that i can understand that too i can understand that, too. I can understand it, too. He was so relaxed. Hall solo. It's almost like he's trying to get the sparks flying, There's very few guys that get to the point like, Bernard got into his 50s.

2:14:29 accurate to say that Silva lived Right. And he just, at 45, you just do not have the capacity for that at all. what kind of output competing in the Ultimate Fighting Championship have Does he have one that predates 9-11, really, Diego? There's a certain beauty to it, which is, and I know you appreciate this. but you ask me my favorite Anderson Silva fight, he fought Lightning Lee Murray.

2:16:55 elegantly evil okay and anderson silva beat the fucking brakes off of him the brakes in london in Someone introduced me. do you remember Alex Stiebling, the Brazilian killer? Rio Chonan, man, that was a I think he might have fought one more time in Cage Rage. Right. That was a disqualification. Yeah, hi. I'm like, I think I have AIDS. And I watched it.

2:19:43 I mean, you still can bet, you i used to bet on fights i used to bet on fights before i didn't nobody told me not to Can I make a request to Jimmy to look it up? That's what it is? Yeah, that's crazy. Well, Nate was goes, dude, let me tell you something. It was like right out of Mortal Kombat. Is that who he is? punch, punch, high kick, spin, about Travis Luter.

2:22:12 Kevin Holland's fucking good, man. Let me tell you this, dude. That's how Khabib was. That is the worst cotton mouth I have ever seen in my life. I'd be a little bit skeptical of them. Here's what I'm saying. The weight hydration system, about their weight cutting system is wrong independently verified. This is me declaring to you until we get independent verification of them.

2:24:41 but it means sort of a counterfeit. of movies. He was in Dumb and Dumber. and they got a few guys over there is without right with the blood it kills the human body yeah it's destructive and I have nothing bad to say about him personally, other than now I couldn't find more disagreement with him if my life depended on it. the history of anti-doping, where it comes from, how it developed, and what the status is today.

2:27:24 that it's hard to get in a word edgewise. financial doping, which big clubs get involved in in Europe. It's been a big problem over there as to sort of make it sound. By the way, in It won't show up on the ledger in the way that it normally would, but when you actually calculate the total, we're not meeting the demands of keeping the payload restricted so that we can remain competitive across the

2:29:04 People think that this is one of the major problems with being in the position that I'm in. by virtue of evidence that has weighed in or whatever the case. Reefer Madness is sort of Right, it's for harm, yes. What they claim as it relates to MMA is that, or any other combative sport, is that it makes vitor versus michael bisping that mich Michael Bisping winds up blind in one eye

2:31:38 Yeah, he was on some shit. this is not like hitting a baseball. The idea... you're putting yourself at risk I think the argument about... I cannot preclude that as a possibility. Do you think there's some therapeutics, This will get me in trouble with the Puritans, I think it's great. Well, especially baseball moralistic, puritanical idea about drugs. I do not reduce my enjoyment of it. And that's, you're supposed to have this moralistic,

2:34:24 Paul DeMo about it. You can still take all kinds of testosterone exogenously What we know from academic research is that is there a reason to believe that relative to what commissions were doing, that make major pronouncements and change The way they got her was somebody mailed some shit anonymously, then they developed a test That's one plausible explanation.

2:36:20 Okay. If you look at the health outcomes from american football relative to a system where the athletes have a say and they work with the organization and they carve out a system I'm like folks that's how the sausage is made They would constantly be under rigorous control What would be different though with testing every day versus advantages that even randomized testing simply could not account for.

2:39:01 One is like, what's a suitable model? It's fucking great. Well, let me just get this out. tends to prefer that. Josh Barnett gets hit for a tainted supplement. No one compensates him. you tested positive for, if you had tested at this level, you'd have been totally totally exonerated they took that fucking guy's career from him is why i i'm with you most of the way there there there is no alternative well isn't the alternative

2:42:16 If you have an organization like the UFC, that's this multi-billion dollar organization, where we are now to the future, that you can't do certain things, because it's going to be undetectable. Stratified how so? has figured out is the average person, men or women by the way, they may want to train Strongman. Right. Okay. You should put some effort into your lying.

2:45:30 Really? I don't know how it would work that way. I don't think so. Another guy. Sure. They have no one protecting them. Yeah, but it's't they been popped for tainted supplements? Sure. God bless them. I mean, come on. So I think you have to look at two situations. Okay, but here's my point. for people who don't want and a policeable world. I would have swore that's not the case if you looked at Mike's physique.

2:48:11 maintain their physique deep into their 50s. He got a fracture. fighter goes no no no no no no no no no no like i've never seen a person like this he's like i've 300 pound man who moves like a panther and you know obviously cuba had a a deep relationship with russian if you've seen Yoel Romero, but that's not a normal washington redskins they've since changed their name, but NFL football team. And I was like, what are they like?

2:50:58 with the same kind of like tensile strength, perfect specimen imagine these Michael Jordans imagine these next level athletes which unfortunately In football? Can you pull up DK? I disagree with you halfway, which is to say, to the extent you get this kind of athlete, Yeah, dude, what were his combine He can't be 1% body fat. being able to perform in a sport and being able to fight another man is trying to separate you

2:53:49 Look at him. That's amazing. and chases this fucking guy down. Fucking smoking. Superheroes. But you see these guys, and in terms of athletic ability, they're beyond comparison. fighting that may not be involved in a lot of other sports that are just pure strength and Are you ever going to be Stipe Miocic? Are you ever going to be Francis Ngannou? Are you ever going to be Stipe Miocic?

2:56:21 but not in boxing. That's why a guy like Floyd Mayweather always wins. and eventually starts piecing him up and taking him out. I don't think he started out doing any striking. and figures out how to end with the right coaching, which is also huge. you know and not have the protection of other players not have the the you know the caveat well There's a thing about fighting that separates us from all the other sports.

3:00:02 I wanted to explain it so descriptively like now he's got to That's an unusual human. Yeah, I've tried with my daughter. the fluency is sort of incredible at that point. It's not the same kind of situation where – and this is why, again, God damn, did he shut down the hype. If you just watch it, even in slow motion, because he was switching stances, close distance, far distance, inside distance.

3:03:13 I think, personally. I agree. He is so smart you bid on it dude he fucked that guy's mind up afterwards like you signed a He's a destroyer. Well, he's got to get past Jan Blachowicz. And he's another guy that was killing himself, making 185. A great win. A great win. It's the only time I've ever scored against Jones. But he nuked that guy. And his game plan was pretty smart if you think about it,

3:06:23 So do yourself a favor. But if you go back and you look, he had a certain kind of wrestling dominance The game has just gotten better. get the guy moving, he's open to the body and to the legs. He was trying to bait activity. Also, when he smashed Reyes' nose, Oh, yeah. a couple guys out of Australia, and he was talking like He's so clever. Oh my goodness! You know what, though? Blachowicz has been

3:09:31 He had like a really not a great run at first. And then he loses to Manoa and Anderson. I believe that was the last fight at 85, right? The fact that he KO'd him with one punch like that, he's on my radar I'm really interested champ champ over at glory to was beat Adesanya, I believe. There's something about this guy. No, but he's been training a lot with Glover Chichera.

3:12:04 I think but he nukes motherfuckers. It's not like Deontay, where it's just this. He does it with everything. Knees, kicks, punches, everything. All of it. You does it to everybody. I know. With the big gloves. He's got a lot of different ways to do it. It's not like Deontay where it's just this. You're standing up with that guy. That's death. I understand

3:13:18 I was there at the fights but as a kick it's just a fucking shame due to the pandemic. came from a different background and i have a different background and we went there and we it's peaceful and it's happy. Dude, it is. Wow. Ramon Deckers was like one of the all-time greats. They were like, you can't kick with this ankle. Farang? especially in kickboxing, where it'll be like,

3:16:30 Which brings you back to Alistair Overeem, who's a Dutchman who's just got this crazy record. What Michael Schiavello said about his back? And obviously Brock Lesnar coming off of diverticulitis. God damn, if you want to make an argument for steroids, No. But the reason why I felt that way was because I had seen guys like Overeem get viciously KO'd.

3:18:57 I know that this has been so much fun. The one thing I want folks to understand is if you look at the history of anti-doping, Like when the UFC really went to USADA, was it on behalf of the athletes? I don't know what the argument was that the cause of everything. Do you think use, then the way to screen that is You might get tested 10 times a year.

3:21:34 Maybe you check in on your computer, like a Everything's fine. show up in a buggy like, hey man, give me a piss test. so he showered. And there's a lot of good solutions, or not good solutions, there's a lot of better solutions if you just decide that people don't have any right to privacy. with the curtain open, and then Tim Kennedy... Yeah. How did you do that?

3:23:44 I got to see your dick next time. worth combating to the point now Now, what they've done is they've carved out if you're an athlete, you won't get put in jail. And by the way, you might have good methods of evasion. ruining guys careers and there's You're doing your job. are begging you and frankly demanding of you to take their word for it. well we can't really do this, and we can't really do that.

3:26:27 What could they possibly show that would make it worth it? It means a lot of that? is true, show your work if there was a lawsuit It's a little bit dense, but it is. But what they found through scholarship is that – so they've upped the punishments from a year to two years to four years. You'll hear them talk a lot about we have to protect the rights of clean athletes.

3:29:05 that fucking guy's gold medal from him. So wait a second. Why do we have one standard And of course, there may be the science on his side as well. then had it go out of his system in time. I think I talked too much? I think you have a very unique perspective. Thank you.