Joe Rogan Experience #10111 — John Danaher Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the Joe Rogan experience um a true key in the development of any sport is some kind of uh organization which showcases it So it's a very encouraging thing. watch it together, and they'll be like, That's correct, yes. you can do is to push the action towards submission holds. And submissions function I find it appealing to win on points. Like as impressive as judo, wrestling are as sports, the mechanism by which they win, in judo's case, the Ippon throw, they do have submissions in judo,

4:42 and still kept fighting and won. extra distance and try to win by submission. They represented the ideal of control to submission. used it not as a means of encouraging submission, but actually avoiding any form of contact and making for a very boring first five minutes in many cases. in order to get the result they seek, so too an athlete can find any interpretation of the rules

8:32 is the pro is you're forced to, you're in a real bad situation from the jump, either back mount or resources on the overtime and they can win in the overtime. So it creates the same sense in So unfortunately even EBI runs into the same problem of athletes gaming the system. That's the way you find out. and the other day I'm going to have a scientist

11:28 say Gordon's healthy again, why would you have a time limit on that? Start at 5 p.m. Run that pitch till midnight. This match in front of me could be four hours long. limit. Ideally, how much time does an athlete need to get to warm up? It depends on the athlete, So one of us is going down. So I might as well go maximum intensity. And I either finish this

13:59 One and a half hours. Wow. I love it. I love that. just waiting and Hickson eventually got out and strangled him amazing but it took a while yeah Yeah, I mean it was a see if you can find that because it's pretty wild. I mean it first of all, he's just a about his life story because in the movie about his life story he faces a Assholes. Martial arts history is no different than football history or baseball history.

17:17 once you lose credibility in one area it's open see I mean it was the reason Just took him down at will, anytime he wanted to. Is this movie real? Watch this. there was a weird rule where somewhat graphic showing the Turks elbow being broken since the Turk cannot continue obviously Mark was still able to come away with the gold medal. It's funny that this is illegal.

19:47 insane was that and amazing and again the bone breaking yeah and the the soft That one was scary to me because I was picturing, like, training room situations And the degree of safety in any joint lock is always reflected by the degree to which the joint is already close to breaking point at its inception. fight that he believed he had a grappling advantage over Jacques Array

22:02 Interesting. yeah I mean right now the the title fight is two weeks from today or two Really well-rounded. I mean, I think he was three years in, he was a champ. Yeah. There's something like that fight. That's why you see the significant improvements and possibly at the detriment of his grappling. it always comes at the price of your earlier skills,

25:57 down right and then you get out there and all of a sudden a guy like George St. Pierre didn't even approaches to mixed martial arts because it's so open-ended. Some athletes have a very grappling It's jiu-jitsu 101 regardless of who his opponent is. Do you remember when Damian Maia And it's like, why would you separate them? minority of you I've seen people get stood up from side control,

29:18 how difficult it is to advance position I mean, that's part of the job. You don't like it there? why how could that possibly be boring and if it is boring then next time that But you've seen on multiple occasions both the person being pinned on the fence attack. Let the eyes of the crowd incentivize the athletes to attack. Because if you're boring,

32:10 And I know you have a background in striking, but still. martial arts because you're clearly training him to strike It's energy spent that had no reward. And that's not easy. That means that when jiu-jitsu players face other forms of grappling, they're not trying to put us back in guard. I've always said jiu-jitsu is one of the greatest products I ever saw in my life.

36:00 we've got to take a step back and take an honest look at it. But things have changed. mixed martial arts. Now, for most of the athletes, jiu-jitsu is something you learn to stay out of we'll just learn some wrestling. knee bars and Achilles locks. When I began Jiu- judo in the 1990s most of the early people I saw employing employing heel It's possible.

39:16 There's very little video or photographs which definitively show the application of them. So it appears that there was knowledge of it. For example, the triangle, stranglehold, there's very strong evidence to suggest that its origins are shortly before the First World War. from a generation of judo players that didn't know the triangle. There was no triangle.

41:35 That's incredible. And I also believe not only in Japan, but also in other cultures as well. But we all call it Kimura now. they'd freak out on you. Yes. phonetically it's so different that there's no confusion. So there's also practical elements too. Some in the use of names as well. they named an American was using it. So they call it Americana. I could be wrong about that,

45:10 we're very privileged to live as martial artists in this age. This is, in my opinion, Do you know how easy it would be? Like Jesse Owens was a great sprinter, but Usain Bolt would destroy him in a foot race. I think he's just amazing. and his incredible defense, I mean, I hear you, Joe. And I think there's some good arguments to suggest that you may be onto something here.

47:34 that they're of comparable skill level. He just knows more. The reason why I make that exception in boxing is because I don't think the progress has Duran is one of the greatest boxers that ever lived. But boxing is two hands, a variety more scientific approach in terms of nutrition, rest, recovery, all those different things. The most important part of modern boxing training is pad work.

51:34 Didn't even know what they were. probably a lot more emphasis on sparring um that sparring was the focus. And heavy back work. Yeah. It's interesting how the Thais sort of devised And I think the idea of training boxing in 2020 laughing about it he was going like yeah like I mean when you think about it what actual relationship between the rest of it he's not doing anything.

54:07 It's funny. with blood sport and martial arts i mean you look at blood sport it's like a comedy show and yet I mean, I was throwing kicks and doing all that. No. line to get on the t because everybody would leave fenway park mass exodus and all these people were on the public transportation and uh we decided to walk up the stairs to uh just check out this

56:59 chelsea which is like a really tough neighborhood and he was just this long tall guy with phenomenal power and i I wanna do what that guy can do. anybody kick a bag before ever and that particular school uh J. Kim Taekwondo Institute in Boston was Like, you should be able to fight, and you should be able to learn how to fight. So his approach was always about power.

59:30 But I literally walked in during the absolute perfect time. that ability to just impart ferocious and intimidating kinetic energy onto a target is everything. You looked at this and you're like, my God, I've got to learn this power. he would tell me to go kick the bag. yeah he would say go smash that bag that was the 175 pounds and You probably never would have gotten into martial arts.

1:02:09 And he was an interesting guy because just fucking loved fighting. and there was these guys, really high-level guys from Korea. calm, just waiting, just waiting, just waiting. And then there was this moment where he faked, And he found it and it was just seeing him hit that bag and then being on the same team as him Like if you know that if you get a hold of this guy's arm, leg, or neck,

1:04:59 it's a true i don't want to i don't want to use the word superpower but in the realm of martial He's the ultimate example of that. Joe Saunders, when I was showing the picture of all the fractures that Billy Joe got on his face. has that kind of power but yet also develops that kind of amazing defensive a guy who could barely be hit at his peak. It's one of the reasons why it's so fascinating to watch the approach of your athletes in comparison

1:08:24 that recognizes that they fucked up and they've been spending all this time And I think the more we stay true to that principle, While denying him the ability to do that to us. You see it among other great athletes, too. for that to be the main focus of your gym. That's what's crazy. I don't know how you do it, and I don't know how you do it without straying.

1:12:20 to have the same sort of success ratio I hope you know that. I just think that we have a short time here on this earth and accumulating knowledge about the world around us is just part, it's a huge part of what makes us and inevitably there's going to be conflict But somewhere deep in our collective history, terrible, terrible thing. And no society can function with unrestricted violence. Human

1:16:06 and made socially acceptable. But on the other hand, you don't want to be a murderer in a world of saints. but at the same time they're socially cohesive where no human or civil progress is possible because we're at each other's throats 24-7. Because I always describe martial arts as high level problem solving with dire physical consequences. these things are done through discipline and hard work. If you don't do those things,

1:20:06 insane maze and by doing so they have they've provided an example of what's possible they've martial arts all the time and almost always what they mean by that is physical speed. And then if I go forth into action E, that's going to And a big part of my coaching program is to create systems to do exactly that, to take the decision-making and problem-solving you do and reduce the time it takes for you to do that in the various common scenarios of jiu-jitsu the application of these

1:23:23 weren't doing with one of the things that i think you and the squad do that's so important is putting yourself in disadvantageous Massively increased and they first started training is that you saw not just one exceptional person doing well, but everyone should rise in level. First off, how good are the worst people in the room? You saw not just one person doing one thing well, and then another guy on the other side of the

1:28:05 damn good at jiu-jitsu. I'll give you an example. One of my proudest moments as a coach was when I had a 42-year-old lawyer who no one's ever heard of go into a local grappling competition. He's that to me is indicative of a good training program way Nicky does the way his hip flexibility comes into play when he's at a level even close to Gordon Ryan.

1:30:07 But Gordon had Nicky Rod's back and for one infinitesimal part of a second, his body triangle is unlocked. I just look at him and go, I don't know. So crazy. their mental attributes, and their skills. You'll learn skills more easily if you're strong, flexible, fast. They generally come more easy to you that way. But there's also mental attributes, you can do, but you can have less effect on an attribute.

1:34:22 There's a reason why there's sex divisions in jiu-jitsu. Things get really freaky when you get someone who is strong in both attributes, both mental But always remember the attributes are much wider in nature than most people give them Okay, well, maybe. at least before he had his stomach problems Okay, so people talk about attributes, but it's more nuanced than most people think.

1:37:22 Like who gets to the finish line? We jumped over it more quickly than perhaps we should have. and that you rarely have, like as we were talking about Canelo Alvarez earlier, And understand also, Joe, that some of the attributes and skills can conflict with each other. who I really look up to a lot, Customato. He's a good athlete. But Mike Tyson was the prodigy.

1:40:17 like one of the greats of the 1960s for sure. Lennox Lewis I mean yeah he was barely trained at that point it was still a Okay. Yeah. Castamaro took Mike Tyson from age 13. He took in Jose Torres as a young developing Olympic And yet three people in a 40 year career to make someone into that Uber championship status, you walked into a Taekwondo school and just based on the fact that you went in at 7 p.m. instead of sent

1:43:50 There's so many things that can derail you. It just becomes that guy. As you say, there's just so many things that are required to get there and so many things that could stop you and become a roadblock to the top of combat sports. As you say, there's just so many things that are You got to understand like that's how dominant Mike Tyson was. event what people don't even really understand is there was such a lull in the heavyweight division

1:46:29 Yeah, Mike McCallum. Then the 80s was this huge, sorry, the late 70s to the mid-80s, He was so good. Was he 5'10"? And yet he was able to completely nullify people's jabs, including very good exponents of the jab. I mean, the way he would wreck people was like there were executions yeah it's also crazy to think back then that it just shows you would be kind of fun to see francis hit a takedown i don't think he would i think he just kicked the

1:49:14 took on kickboxers is Shannon Briggs They had some excellent demonstrations out of Japan But he did pretty well. But even Ernesto Hoost lost to Bob Sapp. There he is. and there was a time where this is when he fought Mirko Krokop, And guys that didn't have that kind of style, like a good example is Peter Ertz. Yes. If you look at his knockouts, a significant percentage of them come from some kind of

1:53:46 and would control guys. And one of the things about BJ Penn that I always felt very interesting Interesting. he got his black belt in a shockingly short period of time. as early as possible. Okay. legs. They feel helpless and uncoordinated and foolish. But if they can get over that, And also, I was telling you about this guy that works out at my gym.

1:57:58 You could be amazing. Yes. and all that kind of stuff to create situations where you're using your legs body. And so if you're going to beat bigger, stronger people, the whole key is to match your your legs expressly against their head and one of their arms when you get students thinking in those terms that it gets sports performance and jiu-jitsu significantly better results than another

2:01:50 Similarly with diet. beating people they couldn't beat two weeks ago. This I can coach. So what I do is I just tell my all day on technique and i'm very very confident that when i do that i can make. I can coach people all day on technique and I'm very, very confident that when but did that training them in physical culture training them in One of them you're covering with jiu-jitsu and technique.

2:04:47 his ability to recognize that that power is not everything boxing and learning all the technique as to why I don't coach these things. It makes sense don't have good evidence for some things but you've got to ask yourself that comes at a price of now you're investing in that but the flexibility he had was literally custom made for the application of jiu-jitsu technique,

2:07:27 everyone said to me, this is the second fight they'd already fought one time. When he went to fight the second time, that was the And I was the lone voice saying, no, George should go to the ground with him. And George won the next two rounds largely with takedowns and ground and pound on the floor. in competition, either Jiu Jitsu or MMA. I'd seen at that point in my career.

2:10:03 times by a guy who is not even attributes than you do trying to to build your own attributes your own attributes don't change But I do think that you're talking about skills that aren't mutually exclusive. And I think that and invest all of your training time in that? Now you're juggling whole new skill sets at a time when you're competing and you've got

2:12:34 months to a year so do you think that this same what you're saying is because going to provide Gordon and hopefully deal with his stomach issue. Yeah, I truly hope they can succeed. Yeah, I hope so too. Now, Gordon tends to think that the relationship between the antibiotics and sorry, four ADCC medals with this problem in place and numerous matches in between.

2:16:07 It's incredibly sad to be around someone who you care about deeply and see this kind of thing occurring at such a young age I'm not going to lie to you it's even more distressing to see that and then a week afterwards just came right back. He hated to talk about it publicly because he saw it. And it's sad. Uh, what you notice with the human body, particularly the stomach, which is so incredibly complex

2:19:44 tragedy for the jiu-jitsu world I think about it in terms of worst-case scenarios and best-case scenarios. I take heart from the fact that if you look at the Jiu-Jitsu until I was 28. Gordon Ryan is 25 and he already knows almost everything that I know. And in addition, then Jordan can't compete, he'll become the greatest coach of all time and he'll have a greater influence on the sport than I ever could. It's really amazing what he's been able to do in such a short amount of time.

2:23:13 And I always tend to favor the athlete for the simple reason that someone else to that level. So there is something to be said for this idea that there are some champion. So what kind of persistence is required? Well, it has to be adaptive. well, Gordon Ryan's just persistent. But discipline goes in so many different ways. really comes in. It's more the mental discipline of mental engagement in the project and the ability

2:28:15 classes? Do you talk about it before classes? Is it something that you're documenting or is it A lot of times those egos clash. I've failed spectacularly in some cases. But I've always found when you try and keep an informal group class based around things like people don't talk about humor, I know I come across as a cold, unemotional asshole, But we play around a lot.

2:30:35 And now you've got to go and spar him. So when these situations come up And we go through trial and error. One of the problems that Gordon had comes from because I know it's something Okay. That's why they often occur in places which can absolutely change your life for the worst. Yeah, you had a slight smile on your face What do you think was going on there?

2:34:28 And you bought a plane ticket What are you going to do? here i mean what's that on your elbow i don't know really you don't know just came up yeah i scratched it right that's a staff infection So you had a woman's inspection and a men's inspection Yeah, I always encourage people to use, Well, that's the good thing about defense soap. Was it a double-blind trial?

2:37:31 There's no hard evidence. Like Puerto Rico has much more sunshine. But at the end of the day, there's only so much you can do. So, yeah, you want to be careful about going too crazy about the cleaning program. which are your gluteus muscles. If a guy took a knife and cut you in the hamstring, 14 inches down your hamstring, would your hamstring ever be the same again?

2:40:46 would be required for a regular hip or the same um because obviously any hip can pop out any hip he has both of his knees replaced they're all resurfaced and the whole he's the guy he's had everything still spars Yeah. and a knee replacement on the same leg, which is a little more of a gamble. And it's all pretty basic stuff. that is an interesting thing right about martial arts is it requires the person

2:44:38 I don't think that's sustainable over time, though. many of my best students in the gym were Puerto Ricans who live, New York has a very high Puerto So it was just them training in the basement, I loved it. You need to live in the city. 1930s, Jim. No. you eat what you kill I've always believed in that and I used to teach they want a nice this and a nice that.

2:48:47 So it wasn't like I lived like a homeless person or something like that. But I just feel like really there's a fairly limited sort of group of people. But the problem with travel is that it creates an irregular lifestyle where you can't develop skills. of travel, of meeting people from every culture and seeing how they lived their lives, et cetera,

2:51:28 I had many famous athletes coming in, We've got to talk Gordon Ryan in the movie to Texas. No, he didn't drive it. For a giant truck. So now I'm in Puerto Rico. It's unbelievably slow. So now I'm looking at cars, A Tesla might not be the right choice. Tesla has 1,000. It's crazy. They're all interesting, but they're all stupid compared to electric cars.

2:54:39 They are stupid in comparison to my Tesla. and it's a you go do do and gets on the highway Makes no sound. We grew up in a generation where you put your foot down, the faster it goes, Yeah. much much much much so essentially would i be correct in saying this is a Nova only in appearance? The Nova is still in California. Google Master. I'm going to go with 360.

2:58:48 Now, that's pre-catalytic converters, correct? They were thin, skinny tires. Which year is that? but it's um again it's they're fun they rumble they make noise they feel good you're talking That's insane. is the weight distribution is all at the bottom of the car You hit them, like a very light, a Porsche like a 911, GT3, that's about 3,000 pounds is incredibly good. Like a Toyota Corolla is 3,000 pounds. Yeah, a Porsche, like a 911 GT3, that's about 3,000 pounds.

3:01:39 You're going to shit your pants. You want a Tesla. You listen to opera? Lead to a driving, which is a pleasurable skill. But on the other hand, it's also very liberating insofar as Interesting. Whereas now it's gonna be two hours of some I can't. But watch this. Okay. Yeah. I'm not a parallel park. Ah, okay. one is like all the best features of the Tesla, but with the kind of handling that you get

3:06:10 So they have a new pickup truck that's all electric. The worst. Literally, this is the time when I was growing up. But isn't it crazy to think that was considered Oh, they were the darkest years for automobiles. It's very bad. It really does. Yeah. I wonder what the great sociological changes will be. Charging, Tesla has that nailed. Mercedes has this incredible new sedan that they just released.

3:09:44 That's the Mercedes. It looks like a science fiction movie. Because they're so fast. I can't wait to take you on a drive The one I have has a range of like 300 and something. Oh, smaller range. You don't charge them fully. It's nothing where it concerns me. So you'll pull into some station. out and put a fresh one in. So you'll, like, pull into some station,

3:12:26 It's a conflict mineral. I want to say something aluminum-based. Instead of lithium ion, there's some sort of aluminum-based battery technology that's currently in development that changes in currency, like there's big changes ahead it seems. without words i'm like dude i can't wait here it is uh aluminum based battery can triple the range Did they mention how much they weigh?

3:15:18 Oh, wow. Batteries will not require the usage of nickel, cobalt, and copper. the thing that confuses me the most because I feel like that is the step, that's the first step lead to a change of what it means to be a human being. A human being is not just going to be So they already have the ability to, at least in a small way, manipulate human genes.

3:17:55 it's become a giant issue globally in terms of ethics and whether or not that's okay to do like it's a competitive world like if there is a means by which one nation But they can all read minds. can talk without words. That's what Elon said. now. You said that, Neil said that people can talk without words. Does that mean you can put a chip in it hack into it but maybe even another step forward would be a much more complex, maybe a hieroglyphic style language of images

3:20:49 It's just never really applied in modern times. massively change the direction of humanity. But again, one of the unique things about people figure their way through life it's entertaining to me it's one of the more It's Pandora's box. believe it or not. on Flow Grappling that's awesome himself old school leg locks have validity too. So this match could go in directions that people don't anticipate.

3:24:06 We appreciate it.