Joe Rogan Experience #1037 — Chris Kresser Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Move over a little bit, I see him. Happy to be here. Unconventional Medicine. That's the nutshell. I wouldn't say they're devastating for everybody. to lower it. There's rarely any investigation into why the blood pressure is high. And what are the Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool story, actually. So 20, 30 years ago, the dominant idea was To prove this is how committed this guy was to this idea and proving this.

3:51 Because if we look at the history of science, it was the history of most people being wrong Yeah, or another one is you probably saw some articles, like stents. Right. Yeah. Just like 100 years ago, everybody thought they had the answers and that in 10 years it's going to look really different than it does now just like 100 years ago everybody thought they had the answers and you know we look back on them

5:50 That's when it gets especially problematic or writing books about that. Yeah. So even the American, the standard U.S. diet guidelines last year, a lot of people might Which is amazing. Right. It's human nature. I mean, you know, one of my favorite quotes is from Upton Sinclair. He said, it's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary is dependent on him

9:10 reasons, you know, conflicts of interest, people that were invested in maintaining the status quo. You talk to the average person, they think you should restrict your intake of saturated fat. they're really sensitive to the dietary effects of saturated fat if you have that genotype. And what we know, at least from the research that we have, is that people who have a much

11:33 Well, you know, here's an example of how things are changing again. And it's not that the HDL is protecting them. Just more cardiovascular events or more deaths. Yeah. that you do, or, you know, maybe isn't informed about all the various blogs and books They're doing their best, but they're seeing 2,500 patients. That's how many they have on Forget it.

15:36 Yeah. And they got families, you know, they have other things to do. And there are studies that showing you the bad stuff that's happening to your arteries. It's a crazy, it's a crazy system. 2040. That doesn't even make sense. So we know now that 100 million Americans, That's insane. Yeah. $14,000 a year to treat a single patient with type 2 diabetes.

19:35 Now, if you start doing some math and you assume, One in four have multiple chronic diseases. What has changed in the American diet? disease and chronic disease is bankrupting our country. What are you pulling up, Jay? The CDC just updated its obesity statistics. Yeah, but I'm obese then. You know, I just flew down here. Yeah, I'm obese. It's not that.

23:24 It's not a perfect metric, but they have done studies where they have accounted for that. You know, it's not going to drop that So here's the deal. What's fascinating is that I am pretty aware of this stuff, and I didn't know what preventable condition. And type 1 diabetes varies in what way? Yeah, it's an autoimmune condition, and it's strongly genetically mediated,

26:07 is actually under our control. Ahead of physical activity. Would you really be dead for eight nights in a row? No, it totally screws with hormone production and all the hormones that regulate appetite and You like reward yourself with something that's terrible for you. Wow. killing it out there. They're, they're getting like four to five hours sleep a night. And I was

30:01 But yeah, I think in that community, there's a lot of stimulant use that's driving that. Everyone is doing NuVigil, ProVigil, which are apparently less problematic, and then Adderall across the board. I know you have kids. been a few blips due to pandemics like the Spanish flu, but for as long as we've been measuring it, Yeah, because we're hard. A baked potato with no salt or butter, not very rewarding.

32:59 really well because, you know, stocking up on calories would allow us to survive a period of famine or food shortage or unable to locate food, etc. in our ancestral environment set us up for failure I don't know actually the answer to that question. But I think most of us can have, you know, just in our own personal experience can kind of assess the effect that sugar has on us or our kids or whatever.

34:54 Yeah. and chicken dishes, primarily fried chicken dishes like chicken nuggets from McDonald's. calories. And they're all foods that are very hard for us to overeat. Again, like it's, you don't We're going to eat until we're satiated. But all the other foods that I just mentioned, those top six And I would get either pineapple, to make foie gras and they just poured cement into my stomach and then i just lay there and

37:55 The gut bomb. Although I did find a very good cookie. They're fucking delicious. It's a big-ass cookie. But it's not as good as like a Mrs. Fields chocolate chip cookie. get you it is amazing how many foods there are that are like that if you stop and think about and crave those foods because those are evolutionary mechanisms that cannot be consciously overridden

40:59 and you're walking by it it's almost like there's an invisible hand on your shoulder pushing you It's because you're a human being and that's how your brain is programmed. where your cravings change. You can't like hold on to it and go, this is what I'm talking about. a cat. Yeah. And then, so then they get eaten by the cat and then the Toxoplasma transfers to the

43:13 It completely rewires their fear of cats. Do you know Justin Sonnenberg? humans are just the elaborate vessels They outnumber us. I'm freaking out. You're not in the river. From inside the tunnel. It's a head spinner when I first thought about that. So it's, you know, and they don't actually know why yet. But so, you know, something going on and with the cars in the tunnel

47:07 It leads to the production of what are called cytokines. ridiculous. But the problem is the average person goes into the doctor with depression, Ideally, that would be the primary care provider. They've got digestive issues and they've got brain fog, cognitive problems, like a whole big roster of symptoms. cause, you know, it's associated with dermatitis, which is eczema. It's associated with all kinds

49:59 like playing whack-a-mole with the symptoms. we're starting from the inside and working out. So, you know, an analogy I like to use is It's like, oh, all of a sudden everyone's gluten intolerant. I think there are a few reasons there's misunderstanding about this. Anyone who's listening or watching can go to PubMed.gov, P-U-B-M-E-D.gov. And so the assumption was that if you don't have severe diarrhea and cramping when you eat gluten,

54:04 They're having all problems, they're having, you know, all kinds Yeah. these different ways. So how is this happening? Is that whatever intolerance that you have for were just talking about. Transglutaminase 2 is typically found in the gut. So that's why a lot their body attacks their brain. Whoa. But in what way? Do you know? pristine environment, you know, they eat all nutrient-dense, you know, good food, their gut

57:55 I can't remember the exact number, but it's extremely high, the average number of courses of antibiotics. They were born by C-section. They eat a crappy diet with a lot of processed and food proteins. But when our immune system breaks down, we talked about the gut as a barrier system and those small particles get absorbed and don't So if you think of like an ecosystem that's really healthy and you introduce, you know,

1:00:32 I've seen that before. It's not because there's some weird, you know, all of a sudden someone introduced some comes in a bag or a box, you know, the less processed and refined, the better. Stuff that And, you know, that's all great. We got to this point because people are eating trash, essentially. Like a laxative. That's present in a lot of fruits and vegetables.

1:04:32 How do you cook those? Oh, interesting. because the resistant starch, that you just cooked. but you don't, you know, in the hardcore, Tim talks about a variation called potatoes I mean, goes without saying, right? You're only going to eat the potato when you're hungry and because of how our brain works, you're only going to eat, you're going to eat less than you would

1:08:50 again, each cooling cycle forms more resistant starch. So that by the end of the week, if you're the way I tell patients is you're basically going on an all fiber diet. That's amazing. that Pete I mean how long you need it for 20 minutes 20 minutes out of a 24 I love the foods that I eat, you know. That's not a bad way to do it, right? Yeah. You have a obligation to get your money's worth and just gorge yourself.

1:12:44 It's all like highly rewarding, palatable foods. Sauerkraut is a great one. Kimchi. I do fine with full fat fermented dairy like kefir or yogurt. Sometimes we make our own yogurt and ferment it longer so it has more microbes. No, I'm just joking around. In what way? is the highest, you know, pound for pound or ounce for ounce is the highest source of vitamin K2

1:14:33 So kimchi, sauerkraut, netto, this beet stuff. Kombucha. your diet, like what do you, do you consume basically the same foods all the time or do Like, the mental clarity, the focus. If I have lunch, I might have a later lunch. And I would put some additional fat on those vegetable noodles. or three weeks, my exercise tolerance and recovery starts to go down. So I start to have less capacity to do like

1:18:46 of replicating what I think was typical in the ancestral environment. So most hunter-gatherer don't plan it. I just let my body tell me, you know, Oh, kind of feels like I'll, I want to do But you can look around and try to find them in bulk, and they're cheaper that way. I'll just briefly describe what that is. Cause I think some people might not be familiar with that.

1:21:31 the number of particles that you have. And so my normal diet is around 11 or 1200, which is Again, I said before, we know that higher LDL on average in the general population does. But almost anybody, just common sense, would say, no, that's not true. There are many other factors that just fasting or whether you do it with a ketogenic diet, I don't know that that really matters. I

1:24:26 Yeah, and then it starts to shift over. Just the second. If I do one day of fasting or one day of keto. On the second day, I'll generally be at one, 1.2, which most people say is in a therapeutic range. my size. Um, and that, and then I've done it where I've just done keto where I've had protein for breakfast, I'm like, that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Not recognizing that for someone else, for example, many of my female patients go on low carb. And if they're

1:28:04 Yeah, that's actually factually wrong. Well, again, I think that's probably closer to the ancestral pattern diet. And so for them, that peanut butter, they're not going to have that sandwich because it's going But the very strict application of it, one of the first immediate things that I recognize is that my hunger is a very different thing. I like to take them.

1:30:27 They're probably the best. Yeah, I think there's definitely a role for the ketogenic diet and for ketosis in general. And he's done some really interesting research. Most of it in order to study it. or cleanup or repair process that happens in that fasted state. something interesting about fasting and about food and how food is impacting those conditions.

1:33:30 like metformin, which limit the availability of glucose, are being studied even by the NIH, and all the different various things that we have, and you correlate all these factors, when you interventions. So let's use an example again. Imagine, so you go into the doctor right now, And the idea is we're not going to pay attention to this until it's not normal.

1:36:23 Right. Well, as I said, 88% don't even know they have prediabetes. But let's assume that they do, They work all the time. You know, 1% of people are going to be able to take that information and act on it successfully, and eventually diabetic. going to help you set up these meal plans and give you recipes so that you know exactly what you This is all going to be covered by your insurance. You're not going to have to pay for any of this.

1:39:09 make them feel better in probably every other way, So it's not actually, I mean, this is well defined. Like you have a person who works a regular normal job and they've got a big gut and they want to lose weight. And, and she's just not really finding the motivation to do that in this, you know, but with them okay so and then there are these principles of behavior change that are that

1:41:52 Step one, download the Headspace app on your phone. because they know about those principles of behavior change. yeah and our Shafir Tom score Bert Kreischer and I we took 15 hot yoga we knew that we were motivating each other as well as pushing each other and talking shit to each other and making fun of each other, I'm never doing yoga again, Or perhaps online groups.

1:44:25 and they actually hook you up with someone like that from the conventional medical system. reverse disease. But we also know that just telling people about it doesn't work. Oh, there it is over there. at until two in the morning. And, you know, they would be healthy, but likewise. of us in this modern culture. Well, we've seen that with the Inuit. And then when Western America came into their lives in terms of like cigarettes, shitty

1:47:33 Have you seen Weston Price? this is stupid. So I'm going to go around and study all of these traditional cultures all over I mean, how could it be? big, healthy teeth, smiling on one side of the page. And on the other side of the page, our faces get more narrow, our chins recede. We have our mouths become more crowded, Whoa. receded and not, you know, not like a strong, you'll see a narrow face like mine. Um, and if you, you might see a person from Africa or someone who's more connected to their traditional diet

1:51:15 It's a big variable in martial arts. pit bull yeah well it's probably part of why you're probably you're probably a good performer Yeah. You just look at those pictures and you're just like, oh, my God. Whoa. Because like the bubonic plague, you know, which was a fast motion plague, And this is the thing. They wanted to see. They don't have a lot of artificial light exposure like we do.

1:55:09 That's as close as we're going to get to a normal human population, right? no risk of a heart attack, not exposed to all this crap that we're exposed to. They live long and healthy lives that are I didn't read the whole article. and the brain can influence the brain strongly and the brain can expenses of that, that it basically falls apart. And it becomes, you know, we respond in a kind of

1:58:51 Yeah. Just try to go out and do something about this for yourself. I wasn't making that up. the newest changes in medicine. And when they first started, It was like a bottle of booze, you know. you know, with something else. So, I mean, Cleveland Clinic, And because of the way the pension plans are set up, if the city of Reno has to medically retire these people, they're going to spend like millions of dollars over the course of their lifetime taking care of them.

2:02:34 are going to scale up. And, you know, we're going to start seeing them maybe on the state level or I mean, it seems like that's the best way to make things happen, make it a business or someone can profit off of it. and now anyone can go buy a computer for a few hundred bucks. And Rob came and spoke, and so did Mark Hyman from Cleveland Clinic and a few others.

2:05:01 they only benefit when the overall health care expenditures rise. How is it set up, though? Well, the real issue to me that stands out as an example of that is these stupid fucking commercials that they have for pharmaceutical drugs drug may cause you know explosive diarrhea anal bleeding eyeballs fall out He'll tell you to fuck yourself. Look at her.

2:07:45 have happened us have blood liver and nervous system problems serious allergic reactions and death? And the music just does Like who the fuck works on a TV show? Even though she has Crohn's. Aren't those pretty common? Like, we're supposed to relate, well, she is so successful. Hang on. Let's hear this. or you have unusual changes in behavior or thoughts of suicide.

2:11:05 cases can lead to coma or death. Bitch, depression is the least of your concerns. A third in. is suicidal thoughts. Like we've all heard this term evidence-based, right? that we do have quite Doctors have the authority to prescribe medications off-label. Yeah. So, for example, a drug has been studied and approved for adults. What is this one, Jamie? Bill Fah's top-selling drug.

2:14:48 Is that real? Wow. I mean, it seems like what you're prescribing, like, oh, come on, it can't be that easy. and writing on the floor for just the most random stuff, So, like, everything had to be just right. sensitive to, you know, sense, input, touch, you know, sound, et cetera. So the doctors, gut pain, dry mouth, irritability, headaches, and the worst thing was severe sleep disruption.

2:19:04 one of his mom's friends sent a couple articles He had deficiencies of vitamin D, B12, folate, and iron focusing just on those mechanisms that I talked about, getting him some more nutrients and treating his gut and, you know, trying to get some of those things out of his food. And who's this guy you're sending to school in his place? less controlling and rigid and just better adjusted kid overall. And at the end of that

2:22:06 It's common sense, right? You know, lunch packs with the Lunchable, all the crap in there, you know. What does the kids menu have on it? Kids just need to eat. Let's do some tests to see if you're nutrient deficient. You have depression, you have an antidepressant deficiency. probably that could your ability to relate to your kids, to your partner.

2:25:32 there's something broken about them, So just correcting that could correct it. neurological issues, physiological issues, or behavioral issues that are there because of your What they had to do was create a disease that it could be prescribed for. It's publicly available information. I have erectile dysfunction, and I know now there's a drug called Viagra that I need because I have erectile dysfunction.

2:28:26 it legal for an advertising agency to name a disorder? Well, I'll tell you that it's illegal in every single country in the world, except for New Zealand and the United States to advertise God damn. But the gist of it was the real money in drugs is in selling them to healthy people. Yeah. And they couldn't just sell it as such, Who the fuck says that?

2:31:21 Well, he's a moron. and then the muscle fatigue and myopathy and that sort of thing. water, like how much tooth decay is really because of our diet. and flossing twice a day? back in our history prior to agriculture right now prior to consumption of that and so uh what but do we really i mean we definitely need to somehow or another clean the water of bacteria

2:35:24 of time and it kills everything that's bacteria, all the bacteria in the water. So the chemicals that we have in the water, they might product. So industrial seed oils And those vegetable oils are very difficult for your body to process. But I haven't had a chance to read the full text of the study yet. And whether even the studies said what people say it said, which is often not the case when you look into it.

2:38:50 linked to lower IQ in kids, study says. Fluoride is not added to public water supplies in Mexico, but people are exposed to it through but also things like mercury, bisphenol A, BPA, I forget what, but air pollution in India had an all-time high, Like what happens if you get so much mercury in your body so quickly that it causes like an acute problem?

2:40:52 Look at this image that Jamie just pulled up. slamming into them. They're gonna tell This is on a freeway oh my gosh oh my god That's why I was like trying to find it real fast. Because if you go up to try to warn people it's they can't see you there either yeah and then what if had higher levels of cortisol and higher levels of inflammatory markers.

2:43:30 with high levels of a toxin can actually be different at low levels. And now they know this, and so they've redesigned studies to look, just cast a wider net and see what's happening. And there are parts of Berkeley where the air quality is really, really bad. they, nobody's watching out for them. Yeah. Well, there's, there's a lot of factors we could talk

2:46:06 Change your health, folks.