Joe Rogan Experience #1038 — Billy Corgan Transcript

Transcript

0:00 All right, we're live. Yeah, well, I've been a fan of your music for a long time, so it's kind of cool to see I was president for a hot second. I knew her through the years. And through the contrivance of all that, then I started getting more power in the company and quick funny thing um people continually write that I lost the lawsuit. It was bizarre.

2:55 I mean, they just don't want to hear. Cause I could imagine. It's just, Like I've watched where you guys go deep dives and MMA and other things Right. So it's just in the blood, I guess. you can be thick and be a roller derby girl. You could eat all the carbs you like. You see them go after each other and skating around. Yeah, I didn't even know there was men's roller derby.

5:38 watching it on a, on regular TV, you know, that those guys were great. I mean, So the NWA, is that older than the WWE? And what they would do is they named one champ and there would be a cage match. There's Ric Flair with our belt, actually. Yeah, that's pretty wild, actually. And I, and I, you know, I'm not trying to speak for Rick, but you know, there's a, there's an example of somebody where it's like the, the persona and the real life person sort of blurred.

7:45 used to be andrew silverstein and the dice man was a character right to do on stage is he now I'm the other way. stuff on me that's clickbait is based on the character that I both created and people want I took pictures with everyone. And it even ended up on Family Guy. And at some point, I just let it go. You're certainly eccentric. Oh, yeah. So I remember I used to like, I wasn't allowed to touch his guitars, but I was allowed to look at them.

10:40 It would be like 10 pounds of weed. And getting shot at. My dad Basically because he was unhappy, so he figured, How is it for him, like, seeing you as a son? guitar, didn't want me involved in music. And even after I put on my first album, which went on to be number one and he's like he's asking me to write songs. my guitar and then fast forward four years later he calls me up he's like yeah i'm gonna put this

13:43 know that's interesting came from a fucked up childhood. And I'm like, damn, my kid's going gun toting, drug dealing psycho. I mean, that's a badass story. Years later, I heard the real story. He was in a car with a chick doing whatever, and he saw some mob guy walk in the club with gasoline, light the club on fire. So he knew it They got Kennedy elected.

16:24 It's like, yeah, because it's run by, you know, capos all over the city. You Wow. classic tale now it was reported the other day that the carjackings in chicago have gone up like That's a lot. And as soon as they did that, there became this power vacuum. I was like, how come there's always whores on the bridge on Friday night? That's just what I've heard.

19:55 So it's almost like an insurgency where it's like two blocks versus two blocks versus one block versus three blocks. unique town too it's an amazing city it really is yeah I mean we we have this Yeah. I call it yuppies. No, It's like we've got the Whole Foods and we've got the Starbucks, and now we're all going to be nice to each other or something.

22:36 intensity of your music right i don't know i i certainly revolted against suburban life yeah i mean the suburban life of that world it's like you gotta you gotta play by now you gotta play by these rules you gotta kiss this people not with nirvana people but like people who were in the nirvana world whenever the main guy commits suicide in this oddly conspiratorial way,

25:05 Like I'm suddenly going to talk about it. You're just, this should be illegal. Yeah. And so I go with what I know. This is a new thing. Right, right. Yeah. So you're working with Rick Rubin now. So for me, it was like I was sort of at a low point and he kind of picked me up when I was down. Because sometimes you can psych yourself out. just gonna kind of just go down this road it took me back to sort of a more innocent way of

28:41 or you can blame others and once you start blaming, now you're in this hall of mirrors. You know what I mean? So that's where my own hubris sort of got in my own way. So it sounded... You don't understand the depth of my work here. And then you bring it to the people. Most of it has to be fine-tuned and refined. introspective in that regard like you you have a very failure with failure

31:53 That's part of my attraction. It's hard for them to assume that I'm saying something dumb on purpose Yeah. a rambling man rightly so yeah there was so many songs about it's arguable you know i'm trying to think who else came out of florida So did you feel it while it was happening like when you're you're doing Yeah, I was like castigated for being an idiot.

35:40 Three. That's just impossible. right it's just not going to happen you're not going to feel the same no i would argue if you cultural contribution and not just sort of more of what they already know. I think that's so You struggle to get the contract, and then the contract is sort of, you know, the indentured servitude type of thing. you know other than that they want to sign you you sign the deal and then it becomes this weird

39:06 position that record companies had for a long time that they don't seem to have anymore i wouldn't i So let me jump in there. that there's just a dollar amount that will buy you back in. Look no further than the deals that the record labels cut with the streaming services. Yeah. They're trying to take on YouTube now this whole different set of dynamics because

42:25 the system, it changes the game. Yeah. think Conor would have accepted that. I know he's getting money from way other places than just the traditional record contracts. It seems crazy. figured out they could sell music to them. all the deals because of the CD technology. They're dirty. That is sneaky, dark, fucking 3D chess shit. Okay, so the internet is just out there, wild and free.

45:59 should get in bed with Napster. $30 million, $40 million. But, I mean, yeah, at some point when you can't pay your stupid mortgage on your fifth property, you know, sad at Disneyland, you know what I mean? But when it was free wielding, I don't think we played the game well enough to take advantage Like the British Association of something, when it first became a real issue, did a study

48:33 I become more loyal to you because now we're in a relationship. Nope. Yeah, there's a piece of video of me from like 99 where I say the future of music is streaming. But I'm like, well, where's the money? Yeah. Smashing Pumpkins or the NWA business. Full well-knowing, I would argue, that they kind of know deep down it really isn't. those are durable brands that,

51:22 guns and roses, But I would argue, and I don't mean this in a disparaging way, I would argue that the freedom in Axl and the path that they took is added to the brand. and he just went crazy. You know, it's like, we only have a few of those people. There's only one Guns N' Roses in the whole world. And I have fought mightily being a fellow performer too.

53:50 But success, complete fuck up, success again. Well, he was like off. But it's like a good fighter, right? or it could be what i eat for breakfast. I don't know. He's managing this moment. Yeah. Yeah. and they did their big famous song yeah that's oh two versions of stairway would be like the dice man coming out and doing oh That's true. I don't think people get behind rebels because they want them to sell out.

57:53 Like, you're doing that Hollywood Cemetery thing. Yeah, it's pretty wild playing the cemetery. I don't think anybody else did it before him. Like, yeah, we can't sound check until 530 because there's somebody in the anteroom making burial arrangements for their family. It's really small. You know what I mean? It's like, it just sounds so like, what? Yeah. I literally texted, you know, like an ex-girlfriend, like, I'm literally playing a cemetery. You know what I mean?

59:06 the more sterile the environment the less it feels kind of special right right and so i do find the Because in the 90s, we would do shows in a club and we would play no hits and just play weird B-sides and people loved it because it was like, I'm seeing the band I wouldn't get to see at the Enormadome. Really? No, it was a lot. Don't know. You know, so.

1:01:10 and this I know seems kind of minor detail, but I decided to sit. to enjoy it yeah i didn't used to care. I used to view performing as an art project not trying to jump in your head but my as as an artist i want to be able to say how do i feel It felt like, oh, okay, we can create this exchange. But at some point, again, about how people were getting mad

1:04:20 So it takes time to sort of appreciate that at some point if you've been lucky enough and it all over themselves to give the audience what they want to create this kind of idealized, isn't this amazing feeling. And we've all been to it comes to bad bad music and to me the guy's an incredible writer i mean um chad i mean he's an Pop, I've said it many times, pop is porn.

1:06:37 I'm just not. level it's sort of it's a it a, it's a community thing or something. And when I saw him, he did his whole routine. i gotta do this because that's the game i don't know he went through that whole process himself around you know yeah it was uh i think it was a little bit of a trap that he felt like he was in because, It's not their fault.

1:09:22 I mean, the amount of times I've been in a parking garage or a Right. and it's thrown in the mainstream, you know you're you're idealistic you have all these ideas about what the future could be Let's put it that way. You know, nothing about childhood, you know, childhood tears did anything. You bought a Ferrari with money that you had on you. He's like, wow. That's just an awesome thing to be able to do

1:13:29 higher Arguably. Madness sort of becomes attractive at that point. What was the process? We all went crazy in four different directions. of a thing in your walk and you think, you know, you got the world by the you know what What were the things that fucked it up? And one day they came to town and they said, They said, well, songwriters and bands make a lot more money.

1:16:57 the recording which of course in that case would be split four ways but you You know what I mean? You know, it's a, whether you call it jealousy or not. Now, in hindsight and in fairness to them, I didn't appreciate why it was important to know what i mean right you probably would have thought they would do the same which they had every right to do you know what I mean

1:19:39 i hope someone listens to this part of your conversation as well. They won't. It's just human nature, right? you'd have hindsight in your favor. Yeah. and I'm not, Very few people actually try to sit us down and say, look, this is going to be a problem. the record labels and the artists it's it's similar i guess probably like the pit boss We made it.

1:22:05 That was the manipulation. You're wrong. That was my experience. But it was really eye-opening to a lot of people that didn't know anything about the music business. open i've i've nothing to do with the music business i've always been absolutely fascinated And when they tried to rein MTV in, MTV basically told them to take a hike Those two critical errors led to the music business reduced position.

1:25:39 Have you ever thought about being on the other side? It's like, it's still too weird for me. Like, how can you call my art product? that system, the guy's probably the best he is in this very unique position I've been working for the UFC since 97. You know that walkway from Mandalay to start singing? They did it organically. Can I ask you a fanboy UFC question?

1:28:49 Cormie's a great fighter. the most recent speculation done some research online and found that there have been cases of creatine that was contaminated kicked his ass and now they give Daniel the title back it's very weird yeah expose things that i think are fucked up about me. He head kicked Bisping and knocked him out and Bisping suffered a really badly detached

1:32:15 and taking testosterone? It doesn't have the same ramifications. and then you pump him full of steroids wow. Yeah, there's two breaking stories in the MMA world right now. Huh. Because they don't test sample B unless sample A is. Yeah, you like that though. For all those fucking crazy emo kids that are just massive Smashing Pumpkins fans, there's when I see people get upset

1:35:37 the board and part of his partying and all that shit is kind of connected to that because he's I mean, he's just uniquely improvisational, creative, wild, talented, So even though he's like a thin guy, he's very physically strong. The guy picked him up like this. Dennis would just, you think, with that long, those long Yeah. I got a good story oh really we go upstairs Dennis is crying

1:39:00 anything about going to North Korea. Right. So on the television it's like very controversial Dennis Rodman's in North Korea so I text my buddy and I say So in his kind of crazy ideological frame, but I really love Dennis actually helping Yeah. We go in to go because we were going to go out clubbing or whatever. Treadmill, you know, whatever he was doing.

1:41:28 it's a series the Bulls probably should have lost So in between one of those games, And you're thinking, how is this going to help us win a championship? I haven't slept at all. I go to play miniature golf or something in Park City, Utah, where the Bulls were staying. No. I love those teams. in touch with dennis no dennis is sort of he kind of trotted out into the ether and i you know it's

1:45:04 larry's looking at you like, There's a few, And then that person sort of handle certain menial tasks, I mean, they're like my absolute idols. things i didn't give a fuck before 50 but now i get to declare it. But it's great that you're willing to be this guy and be yourself openly, if i had it to do all over again like sometimes i'll i'll riff with a like a journalist that i

1:47:21 if I'd never opened my mouth and all you had on me was my music like if I didn't know of your music, I got to ask you this one thing. Really? Really? Mostly talking about free speech. I think so, too. So as an artist who's been in the public sphere I'd rather have them say it than not say it. If we generally agree that an idea is so abhorrent or so racist or so bigoted,

1:51:01 Right. It is terrifying. That's terrifying. I agree. I appreciate the people. Uh, I have an album out solo acoustic OG Lala produced by Rick Rubin. Well, thank you, Billy. I really appreciate you coming on, man.