Joe Rogan Experience #1041 — Dan Carlin Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Hold this. This coin from Constantine. actually gave me a Roman coin as well, but I don't know whose coin is older. Yours looks older. I got a pair of shoes. What kind of units did they have? Because then it's not silver. Electrum was the cool one where you mix gold and silver. What do they use it for? Allegedly. It is the kindest thing that you hear.

2:51 obviously this medium is so incredibly new and this ability for you to just put something out. I mean, that is amazing. And talking to people like you. we're still at the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg in this era that we're in now. of 10 years ago just go back 20 30 40 it's insanity you're talking insanity like people on something along those lines right now.

5:28 What did Cuban make it big with? And every one of them, and I mean every single one, said nobody's going to view amateur content because if anybody could make anything anybody wanted to see, they'd be paid for it. And it wasn't just because, you know, I was in with a bunch of tech people who understood this, too. And you're going to be the test person, right, that shows everybody.

7:13 And Bobby Slayton was actually one of the online broadcasters. maybe even the late 80s, where, you know, they're like sending full files to each other or something. I mean, everyone's a broadcaster now. I'm like, it just seems too much, and the idea of it is too daunting. They write funny shit on Twitter and they have huge followings because of it.

9:32 Well, these days, if you're that funny and you put that on audio and you put it out there, who bought a house in my neighborhood I was like, this is insane. on it. But it's all these kids with multiple piercings and tattoos and face stuff. Whoa, whoa, hey. That was back in the day, right? And the idea of just listening to things is going to be ridiculous.

11:48 You have one of those? Well, Google Earth is on the virtual reality thing, right? It was just a week ago. I went to all the homes This is insane. up some goggles. You're going to be in this room with us. in just a decade or so. the virtual reality set up and they act as virtual reality screens. Yes, the overlords. No, you got it right there. See, that's the fucking matrix, man.

15:07 Facebook never wants you to have to leave Facebook. No. It says I sent it. So what do you got to do? i go what so if you want to try to use an android phone you have to change your phone number i'm Yeah, me too. What is this bullshit? I My kids, they just figure shit out. And then she goes, Daddy, you want to see the movie I made? creativity so in my family i come from a family of people who worked in film and so when i was

18:05 And it's made, you know how hard it would have been for her to get a Super 8 camera she did it that's how we know we're have no idea I've watched her do I'm like how when you have two VHS tapes? The cuts of scenes. The guy said it took him hundreds of hours. He's crazy. Yeah. But you turn around and you go, They take that 40 hours of audio, and they can essentially have you say anything.

20:35 Or is CNN going to run that story and you'll never be able to whack a mole your way out of it? And he was having a good old time and just thought it was fun to dress up like a girl. Look. Past his prime. So I guess they, that's her right there. the one in the upper right though when he's bending over. You kind of can, but they can tell. Yeah. everything so cheap and guilt them out so that they don't want to go pirate your stuff. But the idea of, I'm forgetting where, I told you this was going to happen, didn't I?

23:23 They're going, look, this is clearly fake. This is how Photoshop breaks down images. in Photoshop, you see all these layers, clearly it's fake. And then they just fucking run with I think the point you made earlier when you started talking about that, though, is the key one, which is if you want to believe this, Right. We start. I make a premise. You challenge the premise.

25:37 tribal agreements tribal's the perfect yeah we have a tribal agreement to support the left and that Hillary Clinton is clearly a liar, that they definitely did something with the DNC to rig the primaries to keep Bernie Sanders out. that they were supporting someone who didn't even support gay marriage until 2013. Well, you're not living in reality.

27:58 I've been having with my political show is I feel and everybody thinks it's a Trump related thing, So you're not just talking to Americans anymore. believe it. Let's put it this way. Let's let's say we've always have had uninformed or tribal voters because we always have. Is there a tipping point where if you have, you know, if it's changing 10 percent every decade that you say, OK, we used to have 20 percent of people who really didn't know what was going on. Now we have 70 percent of people. I mean, I'm starting to look back and go, if you can't have basic discussions about reality, can you do your job as a voter in this society?

30:27 I don't know. And I don't have an answer, which is why I'm sort of backing off and kind of observing instead of yakking about it for a change. Radio free Europe is a joke. with more lies because then everything's up in the air right I mean yeah that you can't be too much of an idiot, so that'll be our requirement. You have to have this much land. Like, think about it.

32:51 And if you're going to take a test, who designs the test? They're not used to this being like text that stays up on— I think what this represents is a deeper and deeper connection that we're going to have with each other. Yeah. And this is the digital Esperanto. all the speeches and all the demagogues I look at Russian language and I'm like, we see people. But I mean, this idea that, well, for example, one of the things I see all the time,

36:03 I mean, what are we at? Well, I think that these conversations are very, very important. We essentially came from the same source. It's a dumb idea. global with that shit, and they march with those tiki torches down the street, and people mock stupidity. And all of this stuff is being debated and exposed, and it's happening in real time. And Yeah, but, you know, it's funny because there's a part of me that thinks that there must be something deeply embedded in the DNA or our code or whatever that – because it's either that or people run into this stuff and it appeals to them. So let's say, you know, the first time you ever hear a speaker and look, let me let me draw a distinction, because when we I'm one of those people that

40:18 is that there's a pendulum, and I'm looking at this, I feel like we're right in the middle of Which is another – he says every morning I wake up and am reminded, and you don't have to deal with that. I get that. And I approve and I understand it. But here's my And if if you're explaining to them that, listen, you're born with all these unearned privileges and their reaction is I'm starving here.

42:17 you know, and so it's a moot point. they don't even look like us fuck we got to get out of here that's literally what thing yes but throughout history like you said i mean you could go to China and they have all sorts whoa whoa what the fuck is going on i thought you guys were all muslim so many people had no idea The Kurds have been for a long time our friends, and we've been pushing for something there less than a state, but more than what they had under Saddam, because the Turks don't

44:50 And the reason why is because you had this tyrannical dictator to overthrow a government, and someone who possesses the power to wield nuclear weapons. If not centuries. I think the question of asking about dictators is really important because I think sometimes you have to ask how much of the fact that the country is held together is only because there's a dictator.

47:13 So when you say Iraq is not even a real country, because if you didn't have an iron fisted in the prisons at Saddam Hussein's prisons this country is held together. And it's still happening. Kermit Roosevelt was one of the people involved in that and overthrew a democratically elected regime under Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh, put the Shah back in power, his son.

49:43 That explains a lot of things, including the 82, 83 Lebanon involvement and all that i mean that's the domino that begins tumbling that explains a lot of things including the 8283 lebanon involvement and all that stuff yeah it just seems like such a global mess when secretary now, Mattis. So we sat there and they started talking about half of it was, well,

50:56 for the tanks. is involved you're doubling down in a place like the middle east right you're doubling down because sure you can't shut down the Western world because you don't like our policies. Okay, And we send our advisors and our maintenance crews in every place all over the world But it goes. We want to kill you. this famous hacker. days later this letter arrives in our mailbox the same day I get an email

53:49 right? And he goes, no, no, no, this is all legit. Don't worry. You just show up at the airport. german dude in florida he's at the wrong gate go to this other gate so i go to this other gate a do you have a reservation? Long story short, Everything's confiscated at the door. and everybody's got like three pages on their bio this the honorable and then i open it

56:16 I'm the one he goes, we listened to the show. He goes, we're looking for out. This was all about Okay, but it's a little bit more sneaky than that because I was there with a guy who knows for some of this stuff. they're really getting crazy you're wearing a suit or were you dressing like that with a baseball I don't know. What does it say? You know?

58:24 But I mean, the whole thing seemed like I just thought it was this hacker dude figuring out he's They got some German guy and snuck him over there. they are, generals these days, are so good at PR Having the podcaster there might have been good for PR. He's my friend. knows his history, which, you know, I have a soft So you would say Mattis was very good about saying, listen, we can't keep doing this and we can't keep doing that.

1:00:18 Yeah, he's popular. But here's the problem you have. So everybody, I think, is just trying to be really careful, How about policing? That's the only way to get to the bad guys. They're shooting Hellfire missiles at these targets that they're looking at on a screen. And they're often in like the Midwest. that's an RMA period in history, right? But normally, what appears to be fast, like the

1:03:45 which is as though no one else will ever get them. And if and what I said at the time is do you know how mad we're gonna be if another major country uses drones the Easy to say when you're the only ones with it. But is that the standard we can operate with? The ripples of pain. And I said, if that's really where you took that if that's where your argument goes i said you totally misunderstood me i'm saying no one's saying deserved but saying that this is probably

1:06:40 They've got the countryside and they've got the cities. and blue jeans on them which kind of is what happened there There's a way, I think, to approach this Muslim way that doesn't screw up you know the main mission which is let's stop people from wanting What does it get us? Do we need these wars? Yeah, but do we know it but if we're engaging in thermonuclear warfare nobody wins

1:09:40 There's destroy your country and leave it in rubble, which they can't do. Yeah. Right. And in a funny way, it requires us to be punched and to not punch back, I think. where they wouldn't serve black folks and just sit at the counter and wait to be arrested. him. Right. And you look at yourself right there and you go, OK, that photograph right there

1:12:15 And you look how powerful that is. Well, it's people who aren't there get a chance to understand the barbaric nature of this. have arrived one of them is the sonic cannon which they deployed against uh anti new world order Is that what it was? Yeah, something like that. non-violent protest that was so powerful? That's why they might know. It would indicate that it was most likely an infrasonic or ultrasonic weapon infrasonic weapons can cause physical

1:15:27 ears, they just had to leave and nobody got beaten. The idea of this sonic weapon that you don't hear, but that affects your hearing and it causes injury to your body, but you don't hear it. I would call that one of the big political things that happened in the United States in the past 50 years. Right. And he said to me, if you actually had to see the people we killed, he goes, we wouldn't have done this.

1:17:44 evil cruel shit to people online? And the best way he can answer me is if I call him something, you know? Well, anybody who does because I think what she did was stupid, but she was just devastated by that. I mean, they went right your average guy locked in his basement never goes out, but he can still I mean, there's just I'm like, what are you talking about?

1:20:19 Oh yeah. And edit and go over it and then decide this actually represents my real thoughts and you know Yeah. and what I've been thinking about more and more is this Rosetta Stone idea, this idea that we're going to come up with some sort of a way of communicating ideas that's not limited and restricted to language. if one country's average joes and janes on social media or whatever passes start really disagreeing

1:22:44 going to free up, open up all or the pessimistic ones would say maybe something like, I'm sure that will make all the difference in the world. Yeah. I like the idea of being an appetizer for people on history. If I introduced somebody to the Mongols and then they went, you can go to our website. This is the highlight of my career, history majors because they got interested in what you were doing so if we're poking people

1:25:43 it is going to have a profound effect, and me included. It's what we have is this unique opportunity to express ourselves in like with a with a personal viewpoint. not open-minded enough to say listen joe come and do this tv show which is a lot like what you do network. I'll tell you a story. and I said now this is going to be hardcore way that the Americans and they flipped out, they said, listen, there's a lot of red southern states

1:29:08 from my standpoint as an old man. literally about the next rating period. Boom! And they're hoping down to make it aerodynamic, when they come into town new, the first thing they're going to do So here's what he said. And I'm going, wait a minute, really? right and you're like no you don't understand we're building a mental image you'll be a household

1:31:34 Family. Yeah. the oj simpson trial is going on and everybody it's all you hear anywhere so i didn't talk about And there's like five executives in the window just waiting until the next commercial break because we're going to be, we're going to. Imagine if you were painting a picture. I mean, you're always having that whenever you're dealing with any sort of an executive position.

1:33:29 But when I did his show, I'm like, there's 100 people working here. It's his singular vision, his idea. And she says, I don't know how he does that. like you know have someone to call in i like when i go to work and then i can go to the bathroom You know that's the average amount of time a person looks at Instagram? this guy's outrageous. We need to get Dan Carlin

1:35:51 that there will be a wing what is it? always thought about hardcore history is that over time you self-select your audience. I think you do And over time, I feel like people get a sense of you in a way deeper sense than just listening to your words. And all this is like, so they get to know you, and there's an intimate understanding or I'm a blowhard, but you know, I you might not agree with me and you might think i'm wrong or i'm a blowhard but you know i'm honest right i'm this i might be wrong but i'll tell you if i think i'm wrong

1:38:39 I think we're in uncharted. Their gig is, I know what's going on and let me tell you. Yeah. that have these lives have fallen into place, That's a highlight of someone's day. And you know what? You let enough of your society fall into the loser class, for lack of a better word, winners Whether it's make furniture. than being stuck in some fucking cubicle

1:42:46 Let's talk about that because we're in there. Once upon a time, there are huge things in your way, including needing to get loans and all these other things to just start a business. and you've got a company and it's got a show The fact that if you start making a lot of money somehow, you're not going to have your boss cut your commissions. Yeah. No.

1:44:54 You drag them on there. It's hard to go to work and put your effort into that and then come home and then work for yourself. But by acting, you change everything in your future. I'm going to I'm going to maybe you can come and start giving a pottery barn. I mean, I can't tell you how many artists that I've discovered online just Oh, yes. Yeah, totally.

1:47:10 But the job you're doing now ain't easier. Ustream, we would have 200 viewers and I wasn't doing it for money. I was literally doing it Like, all right, let's do something. you do as a passion project and just keep building on it just keep at cheap watering it keep And if you're going to do a podcast on science fiction comic books from the 1950s or something that has such a narrow audience, they'd never put it on television because it's too narrow.

1:49:26 Time Magazine just had some top 50 podcast thing, and a buddy of mine who was angry that What's so great about that idea is that they instantly tied their podcast to somebody who These girls came up with this podcast. Ooh, that was a clever tie-in. and it became huge. This idea that, oh, it's easy for you to say. If you hit a wall, okay, There's no wall as far as like how many people are going to enjoy it or how far it's going

1:52:00 You can't get out of that. I don't like what I'm doing. Things like that. But there is a guarantee that if you're not continually smacking at it, then when it opens up, you won't be ready. Right? And I'd wasted a lot of time and a lot of money in my life doing that. And I think if you hadn't tried, it's that weird thing. And folks do it. And here we are. And I think, you know, if you hadn't tried,

1:54:38 so many things that have happened in my life because i i mean i got my first talk radio show Failure is important. my podcast has always gotten better afterwards. as like proof that you suck. no, no, no, But if you hate your job, writing jokes. There's a progression that you're not witness to. You don't see it. And that takes place in everything. It takes place in authors. It takes place in comedians and musicians. There is a starting point. And then with time and focus and as long as you reevaluate and reassess and constantly, objectively look at what you're doing and then pursue it with

1:58:03 But if you don't put yourself in the position, you know, it's life is like coming up to the, to the plate Whether it's yoga or running hills or archery or all these things that I pursue. It's a fucking struggle. more Americans who are happier with their lives more successful doing what class into a small business person doing their own dreams someday, how would you do it differently

2:00:35 You know, I mean, this is a little bit of a hand-holding, but I'm teaching this to my kids right now, right? And she was saying, school is so boring. I don't want to go to school tomorrow. She was laughing You like writing? It's like, I think there's a certain amount that you have to do that's boring, right? They have different interests, different things that they would be really satisfied pursuing.

2:02:52 Because you have student loans. I didn't fit in anywhere. I couldn't work the real job. How are those? happening at that level, which is you're finding out which students are into math and would like And it has to be – you can't be playing video games unless playing video games is what you want to do for a living and you're going to be able to to do some educational work on it but i

2:05:54 Because it creates a more stable society. Everybody's got these challenges. But like you said, there's not a lot more stressful than You're tired. Energy is underrepresented. The lack of energy is killer. for a minute, because I think that's another one. When we talk about small businesses or starting as And I looked at that and I thought, in one sense, he looks like a dinosaur.

2:09:07 But there is something to that. So idea number one's in your book from five years ago. It's filled with stuff. Like I got that one. Friday that I have to come up with something funny for the better you get at it. And, and, and you start looking, And then the motivation and the momentum of these ideas can lead to enthusiasm. And the idea was that, you know, if you ignore people in your society that aren't doing well long enough, it's a little like saying, yes, my finger has gangrene, but it's the little one, so who the hell cares?

2:12:59 interest in seeing that more of our countrymen do better because it's better for the society as a A guy said to me, he said, story and they're following you around right now. What would you do? What would you do if you knew OK, that's a person that's got a huge advantage in life. americans live in the dream have less losers but what if your parents are losers yeah well you can

2:15:28 people who have no ambition gene and there's nothing you can do to help them and then i think I love Eugene, by the way. But it's one of those things where you go, okay, if this is a good idea, Kickstarter and GoFundMe Just movement. Yeah. You know, if you start jujitsu right now and you're a white belt, you're like, Oh God, what Now, as a historian, you know-

2:18:24 I'm speechless. But as someone who is a fan of history, how about that fuck face don't know what I'm speechless but as someone who is a fan of But do you look at it in terms of like one day someone is going to do a hardcore history series about the Trump administration? herself that was a great series well and it's here's the thing is that that's an obvious flaw

2:20:15 scared to death decades and decades ago. So if you said that we have a Trump presidency and the only depending on how history went in the future, you could be saving a hundred million lives. and completely ignore his faults and keep constantly droning on about his successes That's why I find it distasteful. But I will say this. There are certain things that he did that are part of his personality that worked really well because there are so many Americans so upset with the

2:22:59 yeah so so you say to yourself okay we could have had a normal human being because, look, if you want to say what Trump has, I don't know the guy. you'd be in jail and everybody went nuts. It's like, yes. she's a chameleon she's just saying what she thinks the polls are going to favor so then if um and so so you sit down there if you're if he said they those kind of people divide a piece of paper in half and they write pros on one side and cons on the

2:25:16 Or I want to be the most powerful person in the world. in control of nuclear weapons. Today imagine what Kennedy would have had John John Kennedy would the kind of things that would he'd have all these women coming forward So they had him on some sort of amphetamines. maybe skiing every day maybe skydiving or maybe you try to try to get the things on your bucket

2:27:53 you can't have an a in here and in it but i mean the truly great people as we know are often very But if you think about like nature, like the natural leader types, like throughout human history, what percentage of those have been monogamous? the whole thing, you're not the guy who should get the job. funny thing is i would imagine that that influences the sort of people that answer your ad.

2:29:42 Maybe I should try to do that job. Oh, Humerida. Imagining yourself in the position of that person in that ad and then next thing, you know, you know like that's why they're trying to do God, it'd be interesting to see what that person would do in the presidency, right? But like you We're not that way anymore because of a whole bunch of constitution says you can't go to war without a declaration certainly not you can get some

2:32:59 It's going to be very interesting to see what happens in 2020. for healthcare, the need for environmental standards, what are we going to do about global When you look at the end of the world wars, for example, in both of them, This is what it looks like, right? a very distorted idea of what life is without It really did good for the people that survived in a fucked up way.

2:35:58 just saying, Yeah He goes, all of a sudden, all these old things that had been buried just came right back. So you remember All in the Family when it started. didn't matter because the archie bunkers of the world were going to die off they were the dinosaurs from another era and And it's so homogenized when you see them with their fucking Home Depot torches walking down the street.

2:38:52 kind of things. Oh, with that British man? Yes, yes. And they'd give them a lot of airtime and Mike Wallace would question him. facing each other. I think they'd be far better off if they from memory here but he like set up an interview with one of the heads of the of the state clan or Wow. being unfair, this racial tribal thing is all over the place because there are, you know, like you

2:41:13 Why did they do that? culture and it means that there's something a little different when we say what's wrong with Like, if you're going to have dreadlocks, you can't because that's a black hairstyle. But think about how it just polarizes us even more. I'm a graduate student at 51 helping the professors but at the same time all got to cut each other some slack on all sides if we're going to make this work.

2:43:39 you're probably not an anti-black racist, right? into the group. We said, when did you start wearing these clothes? When did you get that Okay, well, then what are we doing here? very nice and kind to me but even i when, when you read these things, you go, who is this person? They hurt and they want to hurt others. Yeah, crabs in a bucket, and you pull the crab down.

2:46:02 listen we're a country that can't even get the most basic things passed. To them, it just happened gradually and slowly, See, this is where I can't, again, I mean, I wonder whether we're going to be allowed not i don't know how you would turn the genie put we'll see what happens but you'd mention 9-11 and how you know so much of that there was there was a feeling of community and all that other stuff but there was other things too

2:48:19 figured out all the details because most bills aren't as important as that one. He goes, we shitty. And the understanding of that behavior and the ramifications of that behavior is becoming optimistic real long term, but We may have to go through some learning experiences, and those tend to not be so fun to live through. time pursuing your own activity spend more time in nature with your phone off spend more time

2:50:42 done since caveman times that you're There's a reason for all that. The more you put yourself connected to something that doesn't even value you, you know you had talked about your whole you know we found this niche for me in this history show tearing up my mom's garden once to create a giant uh river system you know yeah yeah okay but but Again. Just went flying by, man. It always does.

2:54:33 Can I just tell you, you're one of the most open-minded people, though,