Joe Rogan Experience #1058 — Nina Teicholz Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Three, two, one. Thank you. That saturated fat doesn't cause heart disease. which really laid out all the arguments for how do we come to believe that saturated fat is bad That was after your book. happened in that particular case for those Harvard scientists in 1950s, because I studied them Humans. It's a problem with humans, not just scientists. way to shoot down their own hypothesis. That's the job of being a scientist. That's why they

4:22 So this scientist, Mark Hegstead at Harvard, So you feel like what happened was the sugar industry came along and they found these people that already had beliefs that aligned up with what they were trying to sell. I mean, it's just what industry does. billions of dollars a year. Tell everybody, hey, this is definitely going to give you cancer. As long as it hits the right buttons and switches in their brain and their receptors,

7:21 They do like it. They do like it. And then there's also people that are on a plant-based diet, like my friend Eddie, who you just met, was right before you, who's a vegan now. Those are the biggies, right? But, you know, it just becomes hard. And also some Or, you know, another example is carrots are supposed to give you vitamin A, right? I don't know.

10:34 No, the other thing is that in order to get protein, But for a day's worth of protein, you're probably going to eat an exorbitant amount of beans and rice. I mean, I was a vegetarian for over 25 years. But, you know, in a grandparent's generation, they had chopped liver or whatever. And that was based on, at the time, really weak evidence. our government. They do what they think. They kind of make a best guess. And they can't imagine what

13:50 Because the yolk is where the cholesterol is, We make cholesterol. Did you do it for ideological reasons or health reasons? to the the mess you know the dining hall in college like don't eat the meat. Don't eat the cheese. What is satiating? Pasta. craves it in some weird way well or alternatively like another you're just blah, your sugar levels are getting jacked and you just want to keep going.

18:32 And so that's the site, that's the roller coaster. So like you have cereal and OJ for breakfast, So I've trained my body to be a fat burner, right? and things. They can't switch over to fat to burn their own fat. This is the amazing thing. Like And that's what happens when you live too long living off of glucose as your only fuel source. That's why all animals or mammals have fat.

21:15 Right. Well, the idea that you're, that all that, that burdens you so, where you have this gut or you have this fat all over your body and it depresses you, that normally is It is amazing. You've got to be medically supervised. mode and to stay in fat burning mode. And so, you know, what you want to do is you want to, Your body will always prefers glucose. It's a quick hit of fuel, right? Your body will always prefer glucose.

24:43 Why does your body do that? 14 hour window at night where I don't eat and I think the more people do that So it's I don't know I think it's pretty hard to do fasting when you're on a And this Ansel Keys, this professor at University of Minnesota, per gram versus protein and fat, which have, I'm sorry. Yes. Protein and carbohydrate, which have nutritionist is pushing this low fat diet. But all cattle across the country are bred to be leaner.

29:05 the way Americans ate. And 1980 is also so that's the beginning of the dietary guidelines for all low carb, he had been he had promoted his diet from the early 1970s on, but he had really been and attacked, but he was brave. And a lot of scientists read his work. And a lot of scientists And they, you know, all kinds of different populations. There's actually an experiment out now showing that it reverses diabetes.

32:45 and you're saying that it's taboo, what's causing that? So with all that data, where's the resistance coming from? I mean, it's just, we're in a situation where we just made a gigantic mistake. So just last year, they came out with And, you know, here's our latest affirmation of our belief that saturated fats cause heart disease. And they ask them, they just give these people a food frequency questionnaire

37:03 those food frequency questionnaires The problem is also that they're eating a lot of things with that meat. I mean, they're not what we would call compliers, right? associations and they were designed to suggest hypotheses that could then actually be tested Then you're testing. I'm sorry. I was trying to figure out what, I thought maybe the Sonos was kicking off in

40:12 Do you want me to re-say that? regular high saturated fat and cholesterol diet, It wasn't published for 16 years. presidential advisory was their attempt, because my book listed all these clinical trials and Gary's book did earlier, too. positions about a healthy diet. And then there's like, trying to make some really unsubstantiated correlations between meat consumption and

44:16 Like one of them was, you know, eating an egg or two a day is like smoking five cigarettes. I did. Well, I think so. I mean, but I think that what you have is people pushing this diet for, Now there's a part of the, you know, And they were overseen by the vegan diet doctor himself. that the vegans were healthier I describe the process of collecting grain in a combine and how vultures will circle over fields right after the combine rolls over

48:22 life. Yeah, and I think that there's also a deep discomfort they live shorter lives and their offspring live shorter lives. So, you know, we have, I think, We're thousands of miles away from where animals are raised. eat from an animal that never really existed as a living thing. Wild cows do. And, you know, is that what we're going to do? They're part of an ecosystem.

53:22 just the place we were born and raised. So then we look around at the landscape and we go, okay, what do I have to do for this And out of those rigid ways of thinking, you get a documentary like What the Health. I grew up in Berkeley, California. And then I mean, I lived various places in the world, you know, the findings in my book, that's what I, you know, here's what I found. And,

56:42 Yeah, it's very convenient, and I do it too. That person would be kicked out of their job. Talk about his ego. look down at their own tiny little hands and they have to feel like shit? and now they are all in and you see that with a lot of different ideologies, but and they don't know how to make sense of it. I was like constantly chopping and dicing and roasting. And, you know, it's like a lot of work, right? You have to, I know, because when I was a vegetarian, I was like constantly chopping and dicing and roasting. And, you know, it's like a lot of work. It's a lot harder.

1:00:21 And so, you know, I think it's, but it's, yeah, it's become a kind of idea. It's like a food. But for the vegans, what they do have on their side the, you know, the processed food and things with a ton of preservatives, you start eating a bunch Yeah. And just going back to those animal experiments that I was telling you about in Right. They're almost like creationists.

1:04:43 mushrooms. Like, no, first of all, we do have the teeth of an omnivore. is the way that meat has been valued you know, purely meat and blood diet. And, and there's another interesting story about how that And they weren't strong. You have to be – I mean there are replacements, I guess, in the modern food supply. Yeah. Oh, that's a big question. I mean, um, there are a couple of

1:10:01 in anything else, in the kind of incredible level of detail that I have this one. And it made me much more cautious about supporting big government programs. Not because I don't That's what science is supposed to be. Probably. And so, you know, I see that I can see now so much better the the way that PR firms spin messages and the way those messages are echoed all over.

1:13:22 Maybe that's the bottom line. I really don't trust expert advice because I see the way it is manipulated by financial interests and professional interests and intellectual conflicts of interest. Boy. We are basically, the work of that group is to try to ensure that our nutrition policy is evidence-based, right? Trying to unearth that suppressed science,

1:15:04 they've got it wrong on salt. subjects. They were already sick. They were already sick. Okay, so if you're a normal person, They're very, very short-term, small experiments. It's sort of a sweet spot for good health and cardiovascular health. So thank you so much for all your research. The reason they have to change, they control school lunches, military rations, food in hospitals, food in elderly homes.