Joe Rogan Experience #1178 — Dr. Rhonda Patrick Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Have you been here since you had a kid? So he'll say it, like, he'll say it before I change his diaper because he doesn't want me to go through that. like obsessed for whatever reason he's obsessed with drinking i brought his like you know nice What does BPA stand for? that show like BPS and some of the other BPA replacements also have negative consequences on

3:42 And so I was really made sure I was not drinking anything out of a plastic bottle or anything like that while I was pregnant, If you keep using a baby bottle and putting liquid in, as the bottle aged, more BPA was leached out into the liquid. So for whatever I know, it's just, So I've only had him a little bit over a year. It's like, well, you know, you're going to.

5:36 It's really fun. You know, like, there's always, like, some blow-up. How to just say, look, everybody gets emotional. around and you know how to make light of situations and they'll they'll they take on these behavior Oh, my God. it will shorten your life. Yeah, I've been reading multiple studies over the years about definitely a concern and then there's all sorts of studies talking about um you know of course, been linked to air pollution. So it's definitely a concern.

9:28 Right. depressive symptoms are measured after. I mean, it's really a great place. very smart move. Yeah, it is. It is nice. LA should have something like that. Is the air pollution? Do you know if the air pollution what's like in Manhattan? It's terrible. It's no, that's an environmental hazard with every pump of the brakes. that there would be similar mechanisms at play that are damaging organs.

12:23 Have you thought about being somewhere else? see you look on it like it's you know so so it kind of worries me as well um but definitely it's I don't have time for that. this diet and it improves their autoimmune symptoms. And I see that seems to be a real high-protein diets, what's pretty common is that there's changes that happen in a variety of caloric restrict themselves. So I mean, and that's, it's kind of like a dietary monotony sort of

17:35 There've been animal studies and human studies. A lot of this done by Dr. Walter Longo at USC. sort of start to clear away entire cells through a process called apoptosis. And their symptoms improved. So they had like a total of seven days of fasting. studies. I mean, it's been linked to arthritis, it's been linked to multiple sclerosis, it's been And getting rid of bacteria, the bad bacteria bacteria is going to probably lead to improvements. And that's what was shown first in animal studies and then in human trials.

21:42 important point to understand with something like, you know, changes, very profound changes in the microbiome. And within 24 to 48 hours, you actually start to lose other. a variety of fermentable fibers start to leave, and you actually start to get bacteria cropping Animal studies have shown causal links where they can basically regressively cause a polyp to form

24:06 So if you're, you know, bifidobacteria, lactobacillus, S. mutans, S. thermophilus, I mean, this diet hasn't really been studied at that level. That's what we're really dealing with a lot of. With both of them, those things were cleared up. But as you've talked about multiple times before on this show, depression has been linked to disorders in the gut

26:43 potential confounding factors, right? But they decided to take the meat eaters and say, OK, what about within this group? like crazy. Exercise has also been shown to change microbiome independent of diet And the thing with like, for example, doing like a prolonged fast once a quarter, once every couple of months depending on how severe your issues are.

29:22 the fast is over like it's like this rejuvenation process. all your healthy cells increase all these stress response pathways. They make more heat shock proteins. They're increasing antioxidant production pathways, and also fasted, they had less neutropenia, which is the a lot of them are going into it blindfolded. They're like, look, it seems to be working,

32:10 I mean, you have a hypothesis and it's like, OK, your hypothesis is all plants are bad. like you have hypothesis and it's very and i understand it's like someone experiences something but she doesn't really have a background in it. It's like I get that they're seeing positive results. And he doesn't eat salad. And I'm very happy that you're saying the same thing.

35:50 like I'm eating fish, I eat meat, poultry, and then I eat a lot of leafy greens and cruciferous Yeah. Interesting. So, you know, the ketogenic diet, a modified ketogenic diet is also, to like help with their autoimmunity issues, you know, there's also if it's like, well, I also just You know, where it's like people think they're going to get a positive response from something.

37:56 I think so. And this has been shown in dose-dependent manner in intervention trials, randomized control in humans. there's a chance I'm going to get the gluten. I don't know. I'm being randomized. Of course, I think placebo is much better. I'm like, okay, so you're saying that it doesn't work unless you trick this person into believing that it works.

40:13 And again- Is there anything that ramps up your dopamine? What is recommended to people like USDA? So it's like what you essentially need, right? Yeah, the fish oil you're getting your fish oil from. But there's international fish oil standards organization that a lot of different fish oil companies are tested by them. And they show the liquid form um but i do so i take i take about like five or six grams a day i take a lot

42:59 Yeah. not he he's working on getting it available in the united states uh i think that's supposed to just accepted and it should be out online this month, sometime this month. But OK, so OK. They do run our metabolism. They are involved in making neurotransmitters. They're involved in, And so there's about 30 of them that are essential. excreting it. There's cross-sectional studies and there's case studies. And this is a collaboration

46:29 micronutrients because, you know, micronutrients, there's a lot of, you know, certain micronutrients for converting dopamine into norepinephrine, which is important for that, you know, So there's a variety of ways vitamin C is transported into the cell. Epithelial cells, it's transported into a variety of tissues in the body. Interestingly, dehydroascorbic acid binds much better.

49:52 that usually doesn't go in or whatever, something like that. They were depletion, repletion studies. So men were given about less than five milligrams a day But before that, you're just, your body's holding on to everything. You're not excreting anything. you know, how much vitamin C was important to, because neutrophils sop it up, something that can kill you, there's also enzymes that are required to prevent things that are

52:57 term functions. So that's really important to consider. With the vitamin C, you know, it's really a small amount that's needed So, you know, the assay that was done to measure various things were, it was lots of things variation in how much each of them required vitamin C they required, even though they were Yeah. Yeah. So the thing, you know, it doesn't take much to maintain the enzymatic function of some of the enzymes involved in making collagen.

55:39 And again, you're dealing with a very small sample size. You don't know how many people Yeah. antioxidant inside the cell membrane. And so it's preventing a lot of oxidative factors that are well. After two and a half, it took two and a half years, it's a long time for, you know, What is a good source of it? Is it going to take 6 or 7 or 8 years before my cell membrane integrity is compromised more?

58:58 you know, so it's like, it's not easy. And, you know, I'm not saying you can't get, you know, actually my former postdoctoral mentor, Dr. Bruce Ames, published a study showing that if you take And then what about the vitamin E? You know, about the vitamin E? So it's really hard. was involved in Dr. Ames lab and I've done studies kinetic studies where we took blood out of a

1:01:32 And again, you can get a good amount of folate. And it's important. But they are not – most of these people that are carnivore diet are just eating beef. But when you cook it, I mean, if you're not eating it raw, then, you know, you're definitely, And, I mean, spleen, I guess, for vitamin C. I mean, you can do it. They take B12. Also, there's bacteria in the gut that can be pathogenic and that use iron, but it seems to be only in supplemental form.

1:05:27 Sure. Yeah, that's, ugh. Cadaverine. Ugh. that are present in plant the humans humans were – we evolved eating. That's another thing. They're in plants. And there is tons and tons of human intervention data where people are given either cruciferous But, you know, if you look at intervention trials, we were talking about air pollution. So, you know, there's intervention trials in humans that it's, you know, men that were given broccoli sprout extract lowered their biomarker for prostate cancer by like 86% or lowered the doubling

1:10:11 they decreased it, like by 30% or something like that. Two separate studies, Brussels sprouts. If you were to exercise nonstop and not rest, it would be toxic. So, I mean, I think that using that as an excuse is really, first of all, they should It plays a major role in traumatic brain injury, brain aging. There's also lots of animal studies where they're feeding a mega doses and there's like positive benefits.

1:12:30 you know, kale smoothie after kale smoothie after kale smoothie, like make, you know, make sure, Right. you can give people a real comprehensive understanding of all the different things at play. Have you just go look at the scientific data? Like, you know. But they want it to be toxic. This, oh, Jesus Christ. Have you read any of the study? Have you, just go look at the scientific data.

1:14:23 I did say it. They think that it's because of the singular aspect of their diet And so you just find, you know, this study that I also see circulating around that why plants are really bad to eat. Good. I like it. You're getting out of your robot self. That's I see this paper all the time. I have a joke about it in my act about, But this is, I mean, this is what you read the title.

1:18:02 Which is what's going on with a lot of this stuff. And then when they're talking about the negative consequences but they're compounds that are made by plants We're supposed to do that and we're supposed to eat some plants. It really is. A gi is the, it's a kimono, this white or, you know, multicolored, you could wear it They don't grab the clothes.

1:21:00 I have a black belt in no gi. It's the same mindset. block. Like when you read about everyone feeling better, it makes me want in. I want in I want in You know, Meat Eater Mike. And then I get thrown in there, too, because I like plants. I like my paleo-ish diet. You're a big guy, too. And I'll eat a fucking pound of it. we have to see who burns the most calories and gets the most MEPS.

1:24:12 Is there hot yoga and sauna involved? more elk yeah I'm planning I want these guys to break that's awesome break them but Bert's I didn't see. I'm so happy that you are the one that can, because you can do it in such a scientific manner and just sort of illuminate all the various problems and sort of explain why they are experiencing these benefits. Because even brilliant men like Jordan Peterson, he's a brilliant guy.

1:26:06 But that is also something to consider. Well, maybe everyone's right. I mean, the microbiome does change depending on your diet. Well, yeah, and it's been shown. I mean, the microbiome does change depending on your diet. And, you know, if you're eating a low-fat and then going to a high-fat diet, you know, I mean, it's not even easy to figure out mechanism, but there's usually a mechanism and explanation for things.

1:27:53 That's a lot. it is, Um, why you should include some plants at least. And again, if you're doing this for an autoimmune, and inflammation, you know, a lot of things that I know carnivore people are talking about as well, And if you feel really sick or your heart's racing, you should eat. and then they're broken up where it's like fifth day, it's like 700 calories. And then they're broken up

1:30:35 So make sure you're not like getting too many calories. Okay. So there's definitely ways to tweak it. And actually, getting to the Alzheimer's, the guy that I interviewed, Dr. Dale Bredesen, he is published extensively and also has a lot of clinical experience where he's trying to understand the mechanism of Alzheimer's disease. And I'm getting to this for the ketogenic is going to come back eventually.

1:32:28 And then there's like another subtype where it's like it seems like a big environmental component, like toxic stuff people are being exposed to. He looks at homocysteine. of like, he calls it keto flex, but it's kind of like a ketogenic diet, modified ketogenic diet, And this is he has published a couple of published studies where people were able to go back to work.

1:35:02 thousands of patients where they're like kind of treating this sort of individual way. So it's like really, it's called APOE4. One of the things that's really, really important is sleep because sleep is one of the ways you actually clear away amyloid plaques from your brain. Matt Walker. I love, you, If you have APOE4 but you're getting good quality sleep, you have like the same risk as someone that doesn't have it.

1:37:57 For some reason, the APOE4 people aren't benefiting. glucose transporters. What was the second thing? Tau what? a matter of clearing them out and also how your brain's able to, like, deal amyloid plaque burden and APOE4 is not able to deal with it very And so it's quite possible that that is why DHA is not getting into the brains very well in APOE4 carriers.

1:41:11 to get DHA into the brain through that mechanism. Well, it turns out if you consume DHA in I do. I order it. Some people don't like them because it's like they squish it and it's like liquid coming out. So maybe you need six grams. Maybe you need four. So the purification process is very important. and that was five years, pretty long follow-up, and it was a high dose and that was five years long, pretty, pretty long follow up. And it was a randomized placebo controlled study.

1:45:04 because the pregnancy and breastfeeding and stuff sort of changes things. Do you supplement with niacin at all? But the nicotinamide riboside forms NAD. Like it's excruciating pain? Yeah, they push it. Yeah, they push it through and it's just yourruciating. Yeah. Like the pain. It's excruciating pain. The 15 minutes. I'm not sitting around for eight hours,

1:47:04 day so that's um and there have been published study clinical studies and humans on that i take That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, you recommended it to me. Yeah, I subscribe to that. I get that stuff every day now. But the NAD by intravenous method, it's supposed to be a much more potent form of it. see some data on that. I'm just always on the cautious side.

1:48:27 thing, one of the suggestions was that it isn't, is, is it possible that people that some small plants but they're much more concentrated something like a legume like a bean and they're inactivated I don't know, you know know if they're allergic to them. They're usually people with gut issues. Right. But there's no literature. There's no studies. root source instead of maybe what the carnivore diet would be is like some sort of a dietary

1:52:36 Well, this, yeah, exactly. They were fasting. Yeah. And the thing that was so interesting, These are some of the short-chain fatty acids. would be like a beta-hydroxybutyrate ester. The question would be how similar is beta hydroxybutyrate to butyrate from HVMN, the beta hydroxybutyrate ester. And, um, I, I, it definitely like gives me energy. So this is a repeatable thing?

1:55:58 mechanisms that are trying to be explored to understanding why that is um and possibly as And less anxiety? which is necessary to make glutathione. So I don't know, maybe there's some kind of, Yeah. So you want to make, I mean, you can get the precursors to make it and you can increase, Liposomal glutathione? There's a video about it? I don't remember off the top of my head the dose, but, um, so that's one of the ways I know of, uh,

2:00:25 So the question is, I'm not sure the glucose sparing stuff that's been shown in animals. So what's going on there? Sulforaphane helps with that as well. of shows that. So don't start kickboxing. I'm like, like, it's like thing is, like I mentioned, for me, I crash after a couple of hours where I'm like, it's like really like crashing. And so I usually will take, I'll usually eat a bowl of oatmeal with like some, some fruit

2:03:13 HVNM? but so i had to tell him i'm like like here i just took this and i actually gave him some as well but I've never thought about that. So you can get – Right. And I've been taking that right now just because of the potential risk for contamination. Yeah. And like it was like I was reading this guy's Instagram. I've certainly around, if it's too much heat and condensation and all that stuff.

2:06:38 So it is right. clean your vegetables i rinse them yeah but i mean right but how good i usually don't get i don't A lot of things killed at 160. And this is something that Dr. Judd Fahey talked about when I interviewed him. It's called Avmacol. There he's got it. So what is the one that you like? Amazon's got me hooked. How much do you take? zofrofane. Some of them have taken Avamacol, some have gotten a hold of prostafane, some doing

2:11:15 It really is. You're crazy. I really like Bill Burr. And then all the nutrition and not getting the plastic. my son you know like i'm just my life like, I get so much joy from him now. And I, thankfully I have my mother who helps out a lot and gives me some time. big difference because i think there's and this is one of the reasons why me and my wife had a deal.

2:13:57 But it's in your body. The guy just does something that feels great and it's done. She can't move. Put it up. Right. that's like huge oxytocin. um, Yeah. He's like, slow down, Mom. That's just a bitch-ass man. That's because you're lazy and you ate more food, you fucking slob. Look at me. It's starting to come down now. What's next is these gals put a strap on them and they peg these dudes.

2:18:05 but it's not even as sensitive as your vagina so it's ridiculous plus you're probably not making You know, Just talking. The eight-year-old has figured out how to be funny. She says funny shit. be raised in the same environment couldn't be more different right out of the box they come out with all these little varying pieces are working in conjunction with each other. And this is why

2:21:28 reason. Yeah. going, is there a difference but because i to get more hot, more discomfort, more heat stress. It takes a lot longer in an infrared sauna to yeah so i think that heat's really important like 180 yeah exactly 180 for 20 minutes um is where Yeah, three to four times a week. growing new healthy mitochondria, improvements in mitochondrial function, and then also improvements in anti-inflammatory cytokines being increased.

2:25:00 my head. Uh, I did tweet it at some point. But yeah, it's really interesting because I feel just chilled out, relaxed. I feel really good. I just feel good. Right. I feel alleviated. So they weren't hot? And this was just a single, you know, exposure to the sauna. And in response, there's a whole anti-inflammatory effect. you know, basically lowering markers of inflammation. So it's been shown to lower

2:28:30 I feel happier and it feels different than a regular workout. Yeah, they're doing it right now. Yeah. the sauna as well like tons and tons and then there's the whole like you're you're making But that's really cool that you're doing it Right now I've been taking hot baths just because I haven't – we're trying to like get to the point where we have a sauna.

2:31:21 I mean, you start freaking out. And I know from the tank, from the isolation tank, Yeah, it just feels good too. I think it was really something wasn't right because I could feel like the temperature of the water was off. But I was sort of in my head a bit in that. I would like to try it again. Yeah, it's right here. Are you doing it during Sober October?

2:34:11 Some of those studies that have been done on like long-term meditators you don't ever completely eliminate the sensory input, I mean, I did. that jackhammer like let's go talk over here until you'd want you'd want to get There's like a few ripples and little waves. Like it's not like, whoa, what is this? Sensory gating disorders? but some people like particularly schizophrenic people with schizophrenia they can't they don't

2:38:11 very complicated and you were trying to explain something that required a lot of the resources Yeah. Just you. But I think the float tank is the ultimate. ideas, if I have an idea, like I used to do, I used to do a lot of jujitsu in there. Like I would Maybe I – and then I would go over it in my head. And then eventually once I would do that, I would get to this relaxation point where

2:41:27 You're doing too much of this. earlier. And then you wouldn't have to rush over here to do the podcast. And it's like, And it's been responsible for I think a lot of my focus and discipline. And I'm sure that there's a place you could use this down there that's near you. But what you're describing sounds kind of like next level. You're managing the motion of your body and then the breathing.

2:43:40 Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, the body is this never-ending puzzle. But it's not a real map. Half of it will leak out. I mean certainly lots of controversy and disagreement among researchers as well. sort of spell it out. And I hope, it out. I'm going to send this to Jordan it's a movement right now. Well, look, we just did three hours. I'm going to take you up on the flotation thing because I really do want to experience it.

2:46:58 All right. And website is also FoundMyFitness.com.