Joe Rogan Experience #1191 — Peter Boghossian & James Lindsay Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Yeah, it's good stuff. Good to be here. whole project. That's right. Yep. That's primarily what I do. And it was translating into the real world. And so we collaborated. do something about this. It was just too ridiculous and it was translating Right. Well, let's explain what you guys did. And so they're really hard to write. They're supposed to be hard to get published.

3:38 So the reviewers look at it, they try to figure out if the arguments are good, they try to figure And then when they accept it, that means the infect everybody with total silliness. So it's the gold standard peer review. Rape Culture. And Queer Performativity in Dog Parks in Portland, Oregon. queer performativity and was it rape culture rape culture and queer

5:59 She's big time. Because it's bogus. And you asked them if they gendered their dogs? So you're basically raging against hetero normativity. rid of rape culture. Or to yank their leashes when they misbehave. So this journal's been doing this for 25 years. Oh, yeah. So they claim that there should be a category introduced in traditional bodybuilding called fat bodybuilding where people come and display their fat before the audience.

9:05 like to high patient we published that's good. So if we wanted to make fun that they published they published that what was that what was that one called that one was called Gross generalizations. like the who gives a shit part of my my my appreciation for any group, whatever it is, whether it's race or gender or sexual orientation. And now they're trying to stifle creativity and stifle dissent and stifle anything that doesn't fit inside that very narrow paradigm that they're trying to push.

12:04 everything in They saw all this stuff and they said, wow, you know, okay, power dynamics are the thing. We need to just get rid of all of it. That's when the political correct thing kind of blew up. not funny it won't work and then it'll be a bad show and no one will like it. All the various strange things in the spectrum of human behavior and all the things you encounter in life.

15:29 Oh, God. There's 150 million of us. That's like witch trials. Yeah, we had two of them that did Mein Kampf. What were the quotes that you guys used? Now, they didn't accept that paper, though, because that paper, turns out, was written And what we did was we took the chapter. you saying but you're saying things that like once you say that you're you're good like you've said you can

18:55 normal. But they're treating that as a conclusion, but that's a hypothesis, right? So we could test I actually am a mathematician, but I'm not a statistician. They're like, oh, South Park presents these ideas, which they then cherry pick because there's other ideas that they don't talk about that point the other direction. more comfortable being racist.

20:41 And then you mentioned the word laundering, which your former guest, Brett and Heather, talked about, idea laundering. so they push it further into the ideology or the madness. So we wrote this paper saying that straight men are generally transphobic, meaning in particular the kind of niche weird definition that you see on the internet and activists sometimes that they aren't interested in having sex with trans people who have penises, trans women who have a penis in particular.

22:23 Really? You can see it online. There were 13 interviews documented, but five of them were gay people, not even straight people. We invited six conservatives to participate and only one accepted. Oh, my God. They go, you guys are fucking assholes. saying, like, what, it's not a big deal. Oh, yeah, the YouTube show. We cited that in the paper we wrote about Hooters.

25:18 that paper. It's real. You get seven of these. Introduction. Hmm. Shut the fuck up. is now an What the fuck are you talking about? hot sauce. God, this is so spice cornbread. There's something that I tweeted People have been cooking bone broth for thousands of years. He's awesome. Now, you guys, from academic people, I've had two kinds of responses.

29:02 Thank you. that you can keep a job for life. Well, the idea well if they do something like to say the least, a lot of people are enraged at me. but also some of the professors that were there there were some of these preposterous people that Yeah, because to question this, maybe to look at it and say, racism, sexism, et cetera. You have to say, wait a minute.

32:44 Yeah, or we are outright racists. You're a tool of the right, etc., etc., etc. You're racist. Or we are outright racists. free schooling. where it is. That's where it is. If you look at Totally. So if they're doing that right And then work backwards to that conclusion Then then I'm not doing rigorous scholarship. Going into a university, you're trying to – you're a young mind, you're a young kid.

34:47 Protected classes. Yeah, protected classes. Oh, no, no, no, no. So, yeah, I was offer – You'd be fired for it. Yeah, I cannot offer – But there's no list. Oh, no, no, no, no. You were? You can't have an opinion on homosexual people? So if a guy is gay and he likes another guy, that's just not a moral thing. I said, everybody has something. But people lump it in.

37:36 like saying you don't want to date people over 400 pounds did you explain the context of the use of But if you had said maybe I don't want to date people over seven feet tall, maybe you could have got away with that. Why? And that's how that works. all of a sudden the white supremacists are out and they're like ah white people have it hard too Yes.

39:43 Grievance jockeying, it's been also called. If you look at the root, where is this stuff coming from? So people need to go to you to hear these thoughts and to wrestle with ideas and to It's a very clumsy, clunky thing to say. And I think they didn't like her anyway. You have this idea that all of society is constructed out of power dynamics that are mediated through language, media, imagery.

42:32 Think about them think about the other cultural moment there, too Yeah, yeah. And then you have advertisers. And then what they'll most likely do is to show they've learned they'll hire an all-black crew. Think about where that works, right? they know they can bully these people they know that they can go lean on this stuff and somebody's Well, that is a part of the problem.

44:56 That's 100% diverse. But that's not what it means. What makes their ideas valuable? In theory, and I mean theory in terms of postmodern critical theory that this stuff's all based in that we studied. different with different races or genders or sexes or sexualities, then you automatically get a diverse set of opinions. I'm sure they are. You retweeted that thing I wrote about mathematics and they wanted people to sign an equity, which is another word that they've co-opted. They wanted folks to sign an

48:10 that has occurred somewhere along the line. So yeah, affirmative action is an equity movement. Yeah, in sociological definitions, it's a very specific thing that means something slightly different from what people assume it means. Well, equity is a finance word. And they write these academic papers, and they come up with these ideas. You take some money, you got ill-gotten money, you put it through this shell company or this thing or the other thing,

49:55 It's really funny, though, that you're saying it's like academic money laundering. It comes out the other side is knowledge. The reviewer one, I think. Like what are the people like? you know, brushed real close to the idea that it fits kind of like original sin. You're born with privilege. situation where it's like they really really need to take desperate measures like let's lock it all

52:23 And this is the thing, right? And you can tell they're just talking about Trump. They practice this stuff. I go to one of these burger places right by the pier, and it says that this is the burger Do you have to have a PhD? If the argument's solid, if the research is good, And falsifying data is not cool. And maybe it did happen. Exactly. to learn what's going on there. Thanks for noticing. Somebody finally did. But that means,

55:46 necessary. The only reason you need new gods are because people don't believe in the old gods. We've been writing about that and talking about that for years now. That's exactly right. These people don't have any faith. How do you know? Yeah. In terms of like almost a religious or religion-like acceptance of specific ways of eating or specific ways of communicating, specific ways of being.

58:12 eventually, you take this so seriously that it becomes kind of a sacred value to you. Well, That's when you start getting these kind of religious-like behaviors. So we say, okay, you know what? of like what was it pc principal or whatever when south park makes fun of that the only reason Why? But everybody thinks it's funny. and presented as some evidence of whatever transgression that's impossible to defend.

1:01:34 It's exciting that you guys have infiltrated and had these fucking dummies not just publish your shit but praise it. preposterous phrases. They really are. It's just a story. Because obesity is a medicalized narrative. It's a power structure where healthy and thin people are imposing their view of how the body should be on fat and unhealthy people.

1:03:18 Also an ableist. That's a real one they're using? But this person, I don't remember who it was or why she was doing this, but she was clinging to Health, a white privilege? clothes, you know, plus size clothes. It's harder to get styles. There's some legit stuff, Jamie's going to bring it up. Yeah, and this is what Jim was telling me. A case study in Ireland?

1:07:08 The oppression of fat people is built into institutions, pervades the cultural landscape, and affects – dude, we could have written this – and affects the relationship and perceptions of people of size. That's right. People of color is a problem now, too. You can't split that up. You can the new people of color. Right, exactly. Yeah, fat is the new black. Parallel. That's right.

1:07:41 More than yellow people of color? Because you're not saying Cherokee, Salvo, Nez Perce. It's really, they're fighting over a piece of a pie of victimhoodness. They said it was – What's up with them? up. You go to college, you pick this up, you start get into studying race and sociology, soft sciences, or you want to get into just literature, So condensing it down to a book, usually you've got an idea and you've got to blow it up to a book.

1:11:01 He's brown. find a few trusted friends we're telling this one guy a buddy of ours and he's like oh my look good. And of course, he thought we were just going to crash and burn. Yeah, that's what he told But you see people who do academic misconduct get banned from ever publishing academic papers again. I don't know. But in a sense, it's like, I don't know.

1:13:38 like students patrolling the campus with bats, Not there, but a lot of people. I mean, like, everyday people who saw this story think, whoa, shit, this stuff's gone They were laughing at him. I found it terrifying for what it means for all of us. Radically down. Didn't the creator of The Simpsons go there too, speaking of The Simpsons? And fiercely progressive and both fiercely

1:16:26 heard, you know, and through merit and through your work and through people saying, hey, this Right? Well, let's just like can him and say, well, he's a sexist. He said this terrible thing. Now he can't be at the of course, think their ideas are great. And the rise of social media coincides with shutting down speakers. If you have a problematic person, you have a person that you feel is – they have ideas that are questionable.

1:19:06 like very articulate powerful left-wing guy and they they did it inside you know this court this And yeah, marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman. pull the speaker wires like a demur event we've got it we can't let that go on yeah that's my under the idea of heteronormativity isn't just a few, like 70% changed their mind and is going to be a catastrophe that reinforces the next thing you know people are going to be beating

1:23:00 affect you of course it's not so who is it gonna affect like who who are these Yeah. I hope that the tide is changing. I don't know. One of the things we wanted to do with this project is give people the opportunity to speak out and say, you know, they don't speak for me. I want to hear what someone has to, you know, I also think that we should have people of all –

1:24:24 And if you want people to be less brittle and if you want people to be less infantilized, Yeah. you could add to it and make it better. the three of us can make up a conclusion and write a paper to support it. Exactly. Everybody's wrong about God. they're identifying as an atheist i am an atheist yeah what does that mean well i want to be a good and attaching them to atheism.

1:27:57 I was laughing. Yep. How did that? They're still there. And anything you say is basically just a little sneaky way for you to get inside of a vagina. It's screwed up. That's the best they could come up with. And very few people are willing to admit that most of their life's work has been nonsense. Right. And it's very much like a cult. Yeah, and then you get to teach it.

1:31:04 You are running into, you know, HR departments. conceptual penis as a social construct. and it's all based on making fun of gender studies, it was at the time anyway, That's real. This is crazy. Don't major in it. Which department Luckily, I read it because we did the Mein Kampf. whiteness people accuse the Jews of being white. And then there's all this, you know, who's,

1:34:19 hold up, you know, don't put us up here know, I have to sympathize with what their argument argument is but they're still using the same broken methods and so you still want to This critical whiteness thing you were saying, they have a journal? What were you going to send a paper on? The rewrite of Mein Kampf anymore what are you gonna send a paper on the rewrite

1:36:08 All the review comments, everything, the Mike Nader's videos, everything is up there. Swedish professor rebels against universities' critical white news studies. Oh, to start a podcast immediately and a Patreon page so that you don't have to worry about losing your house. You guys created a multimmillionaire Who's worldwide famous Boy did they fuck up

1:37:40 And the energy It's hilarious. Good for him. It's been suppressed for long enough. But it's. And there's like hundreds of sexual orientations. They seem to be almost universally under-accomplished. whatever they want to call you or whatever they want to call us or whoever else. And we get back to work about whatever, the oceans, plastic, whatever it is that we're talking about.

1:41:00 We're all sick of it. Well, it's eating itself. So what do you see? I know some conservatives. You know, it's like they're – What are you going as for Halloween? They pick my outfit. Halloween? No, Simple Jack is the mentally handicapped person. When are they going to pull that show? It's wonderful. that it's funny. Oh, yeah, for sure. We've got real issues.

1:44:02 You can't be Native American. Oh, man. I don't know. I don't know. Because he's Asian. Cultural appropriation. So it's not possible. Can he still dress up as Bruce Lee? Oh, man, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. He's a good guy. We're all adults. Mulan is a new one. Footprint? Yeah, or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Who knows No, not allowed Can't be a kung fu guy. No, not allowed. Can't be

1:46:19 really positive. It's all like the secret fell nobody really believed it anymore but they had to go along with the party or they're gonna It's been fine for us. But there's this whole branch in there that's called the studies of science and technology. I got an email yesterday asking for that one again. So they say, oh, look, the scores, the SAT math scores or whatever for men, white men are higher than for black men or something like that.

1:48:57 But it's not something that you would see like at mathematics research level. too, though. But they're afraid. I wish I could talk about it. I think it's probably somebody getting fired that didn't deserve it or something like that. He's fucked. Maybe there's some kind of Silicon Valley connection there or whatever going to get in the general curriculum? So you're getting more and more students that are getting

1:51:49 Here's another question. that are accepted as fact and taught You do not see that on the right. So they were going to have some populist Yahoo go screaming about whatever they scream about. So, but isn't that just an excuse for the lack of success? So I think it's a panic, right? So you have this idea that everything's an existential crisis. to fall apart if the other side gets power.

1:55:42 If we go toward the middle, that puts Hang on. on the outside and you start spinning a thing so that's like the political conversations the dynamic As stuff moves to the outside, the centrifugal force goes up and up and up until finally the thing, the structural integrity of the thing that's spinning can't hold itself together anymore. Thank you guys for doing this.

1:57:31 Where can people see these things? He's kind of playing with the footage that he's collecting for the documentary. explore and watch some more videos of us and well thanks for being here this was