Joe Rogan Experience #1203 — Eric Weinstein Transcript

Transcript

0:00 And we're live. Are you gonna update the people out there? What's going on? Doesn't it seem like that? Yeah, it does. I think that this is why this, I think sometimes when people look at me, they say, wow, you're really contrarian and you have an easy time standing up to conventional wisdom. we should be able to disagree on things conflicts with nothing ventured, nothing gained,

3:06 So this is why biology is always controversial, But if you really understand biology, but in that understanding, to fostering tribal behavior so you could all work together and feed each other. be in a group, and all these are probably evolutionary advantages to, you know, When someone is just like really trying hard to act like you know they're disgusted by the way people

5:08 It's also this thing, this need to belong and need to be accepted. Could be that way. Like, you can't fuck with him. which is that you're a nice guy, you're really into fighting, where there was in the Castro in San Francisco, there was a bar or a restaurant that was Well, in the case of Dan Bilzerian, I really don't think he's going to lie to you.

8:20 know the guy drives likes to drive around ferraris, but he's a nice guy. This is a fucking ridiculous house. of folks that are working you know making a good living making you know 50 grand a year whatever that's you know, that guy doesn't really know what he's doing, Well, on one hand, I want to support people's ability to do whatever the fuck they want.

11:01 You don't want to be that guy. especially self well any kind of adversity But for those firefighters, I mean, 12-hour shifts, He'll be a different person after this. It's just some abstraction that comes to you. get the fuck out of here like i don't give a shit what you leave behind just go keep your body and Because the gas line gets hit You got to get the fuck out of there.

14:15 If you're lucky enough that the sewage system breaks uh, together. Very methodical and they'll attack somebody else. I had William von Hippel on a couple days ago, and he's the author of The Social Leap. from the way in which we behave when we actually just need each other. tease you right and if i don't know where the line is like there is this line which is like

17:39 Right. And I increasingly am wondering whether it comes from social and emotional learning that started to be taught in schools around emotional intelligence. So this whole idea of EQ, then the fear of the hazing ritual gone wrong don't even know right off the street and immediately say something like ruthlessly insulting to them And now what we're doing is, I mean, I think that you're spot on. We're now going to try to

20:16 It's just like, couldn't we do something a little bit more surgical? And that's kind of what happens socially when people claim these uh very ridiculous And all I wrote was, makes sense, definitely doesn't seem crazy. queer be whatever you want to be but if you're going that hard right that hard to define yourself to paint your face with glitter it's a little nuts it's a little nuts if that was just a regular

22:53 She's got fucking crazy glitter, and her hair's 15 different colors. Well, that's how I perceive it. Yeah. Yeah. then you turn around and suddenly they're tammy faye baker and you never can predict when that's it looks very different than the way it looks to me. is visible from the top. With me, it's women's shoes that have gigantic heels, Right. much today okay so high heels were originally developed for men to appear taller um not sure

26:43 So when the horse bucks, you don't want to get dragged, son. But I think if you get dragged, horses are going to run over rocks and shit. about heels that is the uh i do it for height uh i like the way it makes the leg look um 100%. These are so comfortable. You have to decide that you're not ridiculous Yeah. Someone could kill you pretty easily with a tie

29:51 Someone gets a hold of your tie at the knot and just twists and holds on to you, but to be able to grab a hold of someone's clothing, like a person with a leather jacket. and you're so fucked and you don't even realize it joe how often do you end up in fistfights never That shit's all day, every day. if something happens i want to be prepared but the preparation for it is itself potentially fairly

32:14 I got a bunch of shit fixed. There's no getting away from that. Well, since we became friends, I started just casually looking at this world, and it's utterly fascinating. But it's also easier to win if someone's better than chess. It's hard to even know what's going on. And he's going to grab that. Like he's got, where they've committed wow, Yes. and broken bones and things along those lines.

36:19 but you actually weighed 190. all of your electrolytes and get you in a perfect balance, but you're still compromised. That's interesting. He's 193. And one of the things that he does when he gets ready for ultramarathons is he loses body weight. That's just what he weighs and that's the best way to run 240 miles. And it's the worst part of the sport because it's really damaging to your kidneys,

39:09 happened in the in the ufc before it's just super super unnecessary and unfortunate and part of it So people are forced to drop weight. weight classes so you can figure out will be like, why did you cut that baby's dick are you fucking crazy well i've always cut baby's I do want to pick up on an analogy, which I'm curious about. And I was just curious if you saw a parallel in those two things.

42:02 Yeah, I still have no idea what the fuck he said. I don't think he expected me to just bust it out. Every smart person says, into what? no so the first of all was that they they tell I would say I don't get it. There are two kinds of singularities that Einstein's equations aren't the real story. And so rather than sort of saying, And we want to sort of answer more of that than we probably should.

45:36 And that is kind of mind blowing. So as a classical physicist, you'd say, that's not a good question, Eric. question in classical mechanics. I get a definite answer. There's no probability. So, for example, if you ask, where is that wave concentrated? But if that wave were a quantum wave, I could ask, where is the wave concentrated? the thing. of probability theory. The weird question is, why is quantum mechanics

49:21 and they're trying to like explain things. And so now then you overdevelop that model. All right. What the fuck am I looking at? but it's finite in other words if we stay for an hour or two on this and we actually answer all for anybody who wants to look This looks amazing, by the way. that is all the points that are one unit of distance away around the three-dimensional uh sphere sitting in four-dimensional space now do you understand

54:00 as the connection between mathematics and what we call differential geometry Independently. started to tell you what gauge theory is, it's pretty simple. So here's a description I never hear anyone say. When you're doing differential calculus, I don't know if you remember differential Something crazy like that, right? What do you think? All right. 29.

56:18 Tibet. which is the interpolation of sea level as if sea level, So that reference level is the magic of gauge theory, right? Now you have to come back at me in calculus and you say, no, I don't like your notion of So these were two different applications of the calculus. Does this make sense to you? It would be really difficult for me to recall a day from now.

59:02 It's still in reference to quantum physics like how you would talking about this chessboard and the colors and all this stuff by analogy, you'd actually be seeing in rock, paper, scissors? and now the point is that you get to like, better than rock so by transitivity rock is therefore better than rock because you went You just want to continue the same.

1:02:19 Well, we're looking at, folks, for people who are just listening, However, if you do some sort of quantum interference experiment, you can tell that electromagnetism, it's like the photons are the analog of those steps. universe is expanding or let me tell you what a gauge theory is and what there's a reason it's What's more, spinners have a property that when I tell it to you linguistically won't make any sense.

1:05:34 Perfect. From the bottom. Sorry. If I got it all the way around that way? You ready? Now, I'm screwed if I don't bring it back underneath. Pauli exclusion principle. You wouldn't have the stability of matter. And this thing is called the Right? of rotation they just say mind-blowing stuff about whoa so what is happening in the 720 degrees of Yeah. us that space and time are woven together,

1:09:28 down to one derivative to get it to be equal. So it was like, what two numbers when you multiply them matter in which order? It wasn't numbers, There's where and when did it happen. And then you and I are only able to see each other play, you'd have the dramatic personnel of the play given to you at the beginning. So this is that's a different set of rules for a ball and a net and two teams that you could have done it one way as

1:13:17 dealing with, and they're getting to the very things that make everything. Yeah. We know that there's dark matter out there that we don't understand. We know that there's dark energy out there that we don't understand because of astronomical observations. I bet there's a particle that's neutral, so we can't see it, The only thing you could use to trap it would be the weak force, and the weak force was so weak that it was very hard to see it.

1:16:32 So they find it. Well, I wasn't going to go there, but I was going to say that they found like alternate generations of matter. and the up down the up and down quarks that make up protons and neutrons have relatives called the head you know there's a third one too everybody's just like what why where are these And we act as if it doesn't need to be taught in high school.

1:19:09 to this new amazing world what existence itself is, which I think we're very, very close. And the square root, this was land and you're trying to figure out is there anything beyond flat land so the great thing I did not know that any object required 720 degrees of rotation. you think you know your house, into a place that you never imagined could exist so do you think that the teaching of groups and a

1:22:22 The fact that there's cousins to the electron that are fat? No, I think it's much worse than this. And groups and things, you're going to lose some people because of the level of abstraction. But you're going to get other people who have never been able to buy a base hit in mathematics suddenly start overperforming. Like what do you think causes people to be more perceptive to some of these concepts?

1:24:20 is so small. It's such a tiny priestly class that your odds of getting anyone figuring out how comes out of nowhere and it's at the core of reality like if you really want to blow your mind look at a tiny number tiny collection of these objects uh principal vibrations spinners You know, there's this thing called the Titz-Freudenthal magic square trying to figure out the nature of reality. They discovered by people trying to find more of these

1:27:05 who lives in the north of Maui. You cut off my story, man. So. for building the 248-dimensional object. exist and this is like the closest that we come to you know genuine mysticism where we have these which I think are called convex polytopes. So this is like when Jodie Foster was in the movie Contact universe that we're just what the fuck is this doing here what is it right well what is everything

1:31:10 referential it's kind of onanistic so it's like a zero point of creation it was this really tiny thing So what I would say is we can competently take that story back to a point, and then we have to say we don't really believe that we have any insight beyond that point. impossibly long ago 14 billion years ago in our minds as far as tough for a guy like you

1:32:59 Yeah. How far is that? Yeah, I get fatigued by that stuff. Right. is a collection of rulers and protractors so So I can do length and angle, including length in the time direction. levels don't knit together. That leads to an Escher staircase. So it's like if you were explaining to me complex arguments in French, but I didn't speak French. With the fact that there's

1:35:55 Okay but look Listen I know me better than you know me And we're actually going to learn theoretical physics Yeah. hard because you have to it's not just like telling jokes at a party it's really you have Good travel all over the world and do stand-up. Yep, yep. that humanity has developed base level of what you've been able to explain you've been able to explain like some really

1:40:00 is uh it's cute but it doesn't factor in for phenoms it doesn't there's there's a lot of to draw rather than for blow. Boring. Who knew when you get one of these things as a party favor as a kid, there's not somebody So for 2,500 people, I became Dave Rubin's talking harmonica monkey. You have to have a reason because I can feed myself, You're already tainted in these people's estimation.

1:43:06 Beat him over the head with a guitar. Like, you should be able to do slam poetry. Right. But, I mean, there's an equal number of things that people would say that are like the harmonica. You're so adorable it's fascinating to me that's that harmonicas are this little tiny thing that people have It's always that. No, that's what it's optimized for. It's a mouth harp.

1:45:00 weird one you could play the spoons yeah spoons. Spoons are good. Well, how about that fucking Australian one where they blow into that big tube? That's like tube and throat singing, dude. Give me some noise from this motherfucker. something de vegetal there's one of those similar christian-based dimethyltryptamine ayahuasca type but I think it's NN dimethyltryptamine

1:47:14 and um one of the things that's really constant with dmt is these uh icos that these shaman will sing. Yeah. And these Icaros with the, like, thimbles and, like, a little bit of drum I've actually tripped listening to this song. So this guy was just this little rattle and singing. is doing something by enhancing the way your perception of this experience is and all of it

1:49:21 do you want a glass of scotch and a shaman to go with it? There'll be nothing rude will be said. Bad drunks, they're throwing that demon at you. That's what I think. Like what if there was a way we could genetically engineer a worm to be intensely psychedelic? Turkey makes these. Yes. Yeah. Let's get some glow-in-the-dark rabbits. And fish. Turkey makes these.

1:51:14 No, but I do have the genetically modified potato with frog genes to resist pathogens. That's going on. right to be like 100 dmt 100 dmt works you get down to that worm and whoever chugs to the bottom It's bunny UFC every day with these little assholes. That's all they do. Our chicken coop burnt down from the fire, but the chicken survived. We found one bunny, and one bunny's missing.

1:53:48 or who knows It's most likely a hawk. that other asshole. You get two male bunnies together and every day is fuck you. You know, it's very funny. The other guy says, drop dead. There's only two of them. Everything will be great. Just one ingredient. Exactly. That's all they do. N-A-Z-C-A siblicide oh start attacking its sibling and try to kill it. Pull up that if that's true.

1:57:39 20% of the women Facultative. you're worthy whoa that is insane right so. Look how he's beating it to death. And what kind of bird is this? they were saying it's pretty universal that is when the first one comes out they try to kill the second one well you know this thing about lion They were saying that 60% of hyenas die as they're trying to get out of the tube.

2:00:26 They have that giant dick. give birth it has to come out of that dick and they don't it doesn't always come out right so Because they're scavengers. The males are trying to push So 60% of them die on the way out. And then the ones that don't die, if you got two of them, one of them kills the other one. And they got a big old strap on. Really? It doesn't say here how many, but.

2:02:37 Can you pull up the internal clitoris? Just show us. It's an enormous structure that I think we didn't fully understand. It's all that be like what in the holy fuck is that thing yeah with its articulating fingers and it's moving its to get the camouflage right but they also change the texture of their skin to mimic things like Well, it really doesn't seem like anything else.

2:05:22 You know, maybe the cuttlefish is the most interesting, for sure. I mean, I would imagine that newts and salamanders in the tetrapod category would be the best for us to study for regeneration. mean just saying it's weird like you can't like chop them in half from the waist down they don't Take it. new heads yeah people would figure out a way to transplant their brains everyone wants to lift

2:07:15 People thought you were playing God. Yeah. system. And they sort of continue to have interactions where they swab the head and they get the eyelash movement and the tongue comes out to lick and eat things. The Archbishop of Canterbury found himself, I think, seated across from Haldane and wanted to needle him because he was a communist atheist. that that's more important than what an ant does.

2:09:38 It is. lose be more predators and we wouldn't be controlling the population sure but if all Yeah. They just don't understand human and they were explaining the critical role that ants play I'm pretty sure that's true. Do you have 4G? i don't know why i want to get serious on you you're your house in the dirt it's a hole on a mound okay i don't know why i

2:12:19 why would you want to continue to play it i thought that was like really interesting that somebody who sounds like his wife doesn't want any more kids that's what i hear rationalizations i get it bro we're more significant to each other. So I'll finish this up quick. Wow. I have a buddy of mine, Brian Callen. Insectivore? Elephants have been eaten by ants.

2:15:30 there is a sense in which in this world of bees and ants and wasps and things, And the point is, we're not structured to cooperate in this eusocial fashion. Not just one, where they take the leaves and they they let them rot and they turn to mulch and there's like a gas you know, Um, What is that? of these passageways and rooms, How does he figure out that hole?

2:20:18 neurons. Each of those is an extremely primitive machine and they send signals to each other. And think this is a very recent discovery at least one this large and these guys are swimming around to this rather what we're looking at is these divers that are just tripping balls here they're Like, what is it? That is fucking crazy. They're right fucking there. Like whether it's cuttlefish or octopus or this goddamn thing whoa pyrosome

2:24:10 Look at this thing. I'm so happy we found something you don't know about. kind of sort of mapped out the terrestrial stuff more or less yeah there's like a few weird things real because that's a mule deer see that one that After the podcast, I'll show them to you. to grow back tusks too or they used to have the's all just for fighting. And they used to grow back tusks, too.

2:27:40 in some dung beetles, the amount of weaponry you have as your antler can't have a gingus khan of the dung beetle world the patriarchy in the in the dung beetle world. You can't have an oppressor. You can't have a Genghis Khan of the dung beetle world. Exactly. Right. like a deeper layer where if I got even deeper into it, I would understand it? Or am I actually

2:29:50 Bear hunting is different They definitely are And then when the males get chased off, the female will eat her own cubs. they outlawed hound hunting and then they outlawed um baiting around the same time what they all they're all beautiful okay so i mean i think i mean i think even frogs are beautiful they're all beautiful. I mean, I think even frogs are beautiful. They're fascinating.

2:32:19 That's what flipped me out. The reason I'm asking you is that I had expected that I would have the difficulty, bears equals teddy bears. I think there's a really good argument, and I support this argument, that you must keep attaching these human attributes and these human thoughts I don't have any of those issues, I think. Okay. And there's some of them that learn that they can get into garbage cans.

2:36:01 animal they're the ones that i i covet the most what i want to do is i want to You know, you hit it in the heart. i think you should i think you should be really careful about anything that you do that's not that accurate that's that's an issue yeah it's a They're ethical and they're shot decisions. shooting oh you're going after a bear yeah like i've seen some of these things filmed where the person looks like, you know, they're up in their, I don't know what to call it, their little.

2:39:19 And I thought that I had prepared myself. And I just, I thought when I, when I saw you find out where Joe is, because I have no question knowing your ethics and how you think that you would have a very place. Like you say, oh, I only spear wild pigs. Like out to 100 yards If you have a really good control Then you have crossbow, which is They just don't get there at the same speed.

2:40:59 that goes 100 yards. A bullet is going to go 100 yards far quicker. Easier to manipulate. but it gets to how accurate are you, and what's your ethical range? Are you doing it for meat? you doing it because um is this where a guy filmed himself doing that. hunt with anything and other people like hmm okay but what are we doing are we just going out to get

2:43:45 skill i'm impressed by some of the bravery but it's like why but like why right yeah are you I don't have any problem with hunting bears. They have kind of, those smart ones have come to an understanding But I don't want to be the person that tells you you can't do it. myself to practice but you're asking these questions you're very self-aware it's a very

2:46:42 Well, again, we're talking about bears. when they're taking those photos what there are is happy that something which is very difficult What that photo means is here's an asshole who's a trophy hunter who shot this thing. They scream at each other. So where do you think we are on the political front? and that this is possible, that people can realize

2:49:45 someone who's in a group right you you get accepted by this group and you see it left and those fucking losers. It's like they just decide this group makes more sense now and I've been attacked by people You've launched that idea out into the zeitgeist and people took a big shit on it. This is a giant community of 300 million people. Right. they're doing it on both sides i think most reasonable people have a collection of ideas

2:52:52 Okay, let me see where you're coming from with this. to every season, which is an act of exclusion. So we have this series of situations in which it seems like some perspective that very few people hold Right, yeah. because I think it probably should burn down and be rebuilt from the ruins. is it what's the number like two lobbyists to every member of congress or two lobbyists to

2:56:39 And I think we really want to make sure that this vetting of ideas happens quickly because we see the answer. feeds those ideas and it also it it you have to question like why are you so sure why are you so If all the ideas are good, like, what are we duking it out against? We need to see it in action. How about if I tell you that this is going to go down

2:58:54 Like these really shitty ideas that a lot of people have, what they do is they facilitate a comprehension of why we think dumb shit. closed. Then you start hearing professors say, you know, the great thing about immigration is, Yeah, that was all bullshit. strong sense, you know, when Elon came on your show and Peter Thiel, my friend and boss, came

3:01:52 And I think I've been convinced in the last two days that I need, this is advice that institutions can't return us to because the the institutional interests uh really have to do with And this new world that is being born is a huge But isn't it interesting to you that we still have not, like Jordan had to be dealt with by the mainstream because the book was too big.

3:04:01 for a long time. you are in fact racist or sexist or a soccer match we're watching a wrestling match this is jujitsu they're playing intellectual if you're compelling people to behave a certain way compelling people to talk a certain way and we're not talking about you know compelling people to not commit crimes or violence we're And the mainstream world doesn't want, like, the Aikido world doesn't want to acknowledge that this weird UFC-type thing is happening.

3:07:12 You're clearly stepping outside of the realm of civilization and into war and violence. Okay. haven't done is to positively say we agree with you that the speech is offensive and it is we're trying to pretend is it like a dinner party is it the public square is it a utility and it's that is the battlefield of ideas but it is a little no no but but when you de-platform people

3:10:13 The difference is Brett's position, he comes from a different place. because in their mind, Right. So he puts his hands down, and they start laughing. him if he's coming back to the school the kids form these vigilante groups with weapons over by any outfit that believes Well, that's true. justice. So one of them is, you cannot understand me because my experience is too different and you must understand me because is so important yeah right or um we are all similar enough that any deviation from 50 50

3:14:02 and then show you what kind of weird world no Oh, you didn't hear about this? of humans as sexual objects for the privilege of the male gaze And it's a terrible male exploitation issue at the same time. Why does it have to be exploitation, though? you throw them all in. Instead of saying what's true and what isn't true, you say, are these compatible?

3:17:46 Like, I don't even want to get into what my position is. I think that's where we haven't gone to yet. Go ahead. The person with mechilophobia, which is an extremely rare psychological condition, show do you really think that wait a minute do you really think that victoria's secret runway Well, you know, that's on him. Who the fuck is sitting around?

3:21:31 easy a bunch of chicks walking around their underwear yeah actually i think you're calling I don't have a dog in that fight. There's certain jobs. I'm not that interested in the particulars of Victoria's Secret's profitability and what their statements are. give ground you can't give ground to nonsense because that ground is never getting back you're

3:24:39 the match why do we still have so much caught up in the Aikido league and the Kung Fu league? These, I think, honestly, and I'm not trying to blow jordan's horn any more than professor he's a phd when he's going to war with these people, they're throwing out valiant warriors to die at his sword. Really? religion is a virus it's not parasitizing that's right he believes that religion is actually an

3:26:56 as part of the ant system because it can't exist right you have to if you looked at it objectively not looked at it in terms of right you know how Yeah. Well, there's a lot of it is the way you approach people a lot of is the way you accept people's ideas the way you communicate things and this is your point about the ufc is that the mixed martial arts thing is hey we don't

3:30:35 He's been doing these type of debates and shutting down these secular people, or these Dinesh D'Souza? And they show up for the challenge because they've actually bought it. exploding heart technique or something. I do think that some of these people that are like super progressive of person that would that looks forward to on an even battlefield engaging someone one-on-one

3:33:32 You're dealing with two very different types of human beings. what's how so well just that they all kind of know that the republicans Sure. But they would have to be very... or actually xenophobic, if they said anything that could be taken out of context kung fu thing that is it only can exist in a protected context well first of all someone like i was raised catholic i mean i'm not saying that he is i'm not saying that the people he knows

3:37:16 but is the idea that this is such a risk like your point about aikido was if you happen to be I think they could do it in other ways. He could operate in any genre, I believe. and live in beverly hills you decide to stay in that box right maybe their mind is in that box we saw this thing that was very, characteristics of that environment and where bill's show is the most like this show,

3:40:03 He was doing a conversation with steve I want to continue to do real time I bet you're weird that they're not. How did he look? I'm still stuck in the old. And you don't have the freedom to completely express yourself across the border. coffin and doing this style of podcast. They're all bright and gifted people. I went to Catholic school. I think a lot of people like that format. Okay, that's on preference, and I understand that.

3:43:12 That if you tried to do both of these things, you would be revealed, you'd be caught between yes well which is which is i think a puzzle hoist crazy of the intellectual dark web. He is. She didn't make any of these ridiculous straw man arguments she she came at him with her positions and her points it was interesting i think But I think he's also, he can say, fuck you.

3:45:20 conversation with that guy even on a podcast and he didn't have an hbo show that's one thing but if you do have an hbo show you have to have a totally different attitude because I agree that he would be the one most likely to be able to do both. I mean, the only thing that's holding him back, he's a man of his ideas. They're slowly starting to vanish.

3:47:31 That's what that is. the level of conversation by getting rid of a heart that you can put on someone's idea but it's what they said though this is a couple weeks ago. This is their... interact with each other because they're anonymous they have the incentive to talk shit it's fun I'm always worried, You're progressive. You love that cloak and dagger type shit, don't you?

3:50:27 International dork web. Yeah, I can do this for hours. I think I am. I linked you on the Instagram. Thank you, my friend.