Joe Rogan Experience #1248 — Bill Ottman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 five four three two one legit hello bill hey man what's going on here you are here yes with a book who said he was basically cloning it there's a tweet about someone needs to suck your dick Yeah, I was finding it just trailing off at the end of certain words. Okay. yeah they're like they this one class was called Critical Theory. Which one is UVM? Vermont.

2:36 But this one class was called Critical Theory, and we had to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer Class division. Yeah. It's amazing. I didn't meet her, unfortunately. I got tricked by that. To hoax. You kind of have the right to troll. I mean, it's slippery. internet freedom groups which is talking about how digital intermediaries should, Like a domain name.

6:40 But at the same time, it's just slippery. on Instagram, you ever follow him? about it as though he's Bill Walton, like in Bill Walton's voice. um but you know i mean who is that is that a 16 year old kid in indiana i mean who is that it's uh You could get all of your information from Twitter, whether it's what happened in Venezuela or anywhere there's something in the world.

9:54 myself like getting off facebook getting off twitter getting off instagram it's just like compare it to like food transparency you know 50 years ago nobody thought about that and then 20 years ago everyone's like i want to going to be private or at least their searches are not going to be private. Or at least their searches are not going to be private.

11:37 And I don't think that that makes people with your browsers, your apps, your operating system, ubuntu if you use brave or firefox if you um you know duck duck go is actually proprietary which you know, Bitcoin style internet, but we're definitely getting there. And so the tech is still sort of immature in the fully peer-to-peer like, you know, Bitcoin

14:05 because we're not scooping into people's oh, I want to find my friends who are on this app Facebook is a weird one, man. And if your eyes are focused on Facebook, I mean, even just yesterday, I think some journalist got banned from Facebook. I'm going to send this to you right now, Jamie. Not dead air. There you go. Okay, buddy. I just show. This is live air. Yes. Not dead air.

16:52 I mean, who knows? If you post in the news feed, it says, careful, this could be an unsecure website. clicking this like this story is on tmz here do you see the the rest of the story so they're it won't let you post that link? I don't know. there's no more unsecure site that exists And so that should be very interesting. But I think that when we look at the policy

20:14 but do you think that an advertiser in reality doesn't like say you're an advertiser and you Right. healthy direction to move. Well, okay. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is And then there's a human review system, which is very weird. because it's that initial time period You can, so you earn crypto for your contributions. Okay.

23:23 That's not what we're not focused on like, oh, you're going to make money from this. That's not what we're saying. One token will give you 1,000 impressions or you get a token from 1,000 impressions? them instagram spies on people too oh my yeah i don't know man i'm stupid help me out it's and extract information and sell that information? and make their own social network and compete with us.

25:15 But he's definitely moving in the right direction of like he wants to build the market. Whatever network does that is more transparent, stops spying on people, doing it because they know that the you know they're they think moving these images or these posts around I remember that now. depression if they're just if your images or your posts are not being seen by as many people

28:26 And we need to learn to not care about that. so we're saying look 100 organic chronological raw forever as default and then if you want to people that you're going to react to the most so as a consumer when you're getting that content Because it's not chronological and it's not organic because it's curated? how to keep people on the app more. They say,

31:17 I understand. And that's okay to pursue. And then they start monkeying with the code But this whole forcing people into surveillance, it just has to stop. It's super scary. But then look at open networks out there. We did an equity crowdfunding round. on Twitter for 10 years and post thousands and thousands of tweets and you never hit that viral I think that on the central servers, obviously, yes,

35:33 Our lives, this is sort of like the inevitable evolution of technology. that is just where we're going Then you can post the central server. actually just sent me an article um that was uh detailing the bias against conservatives on twitter find that somebody sam harris actually just sent me an article um that was uh detailing the bias against conservatives on twitter that they've

37:33 Abby Martin. getting censored on youtube and she went and brought a gun to the youtube headquarters No, she wasn't being censored. saying so it's i'm not saying they were deliberately targeting her and it's horrible what happened but and we don't necessarily know what the rules should or shouldn't be. First of all, most of the users on mines are like artists, musicians, filmmakers, activists,

40:05 that's not that's not my place but the it's been proven that censorship is not the answer i mean dismissible characterization you know you just decide hey that bill ottman guy that guy's a this really would you ever see the n uh w kamau bells uh show when he visited with those white and one that i would argue we have not really necessarily uh successfully navigated it yet

43:24 that she was ever this fundamentalist and that she was ever some mean person sending hateful messages to at soldiers' funerals. Yeah, they will change. And so that's why banning them, Did you see what happened to him? The hard thing is that, all right, yes, we see these transformations take place. I mean, that's not not like sometimes people are going to

46:42 boy i don't know about that one that doesn't really make sense almost none of the high profile banning cases make much sense no it's like a i'm not claiming to be a developer no i know you're not these people are another level yeah Someone like AOC. You find out which one is most popular. Uh-oh. You know, like child porn, animated child porn. happening here like i get like octopuses banging chicks in every hole and they're choking on it

51:08 That's the thing. That's not helping society, taking down a naked statue. Mm-hmm. But, you know, society is evolving. they say warning this is sensitive content uh nature is metal gets popped on that a lot of hunters and Instagram has things where they say, warning, this is sensitive content. like from the inside. Like in the 1920s, 1910s, they had to wear in pools, they had to wear a top.

54:05 That is hilarious. It says here, saucy lifeguards flash rebellious nipples. Ha, ha, ha. Along with the help of Hollywood hunks. and they just want you see look here's one in my pussy right there take a look like full blown But Jonathan Haight, Haight or Haight? his other one and i'm working on that one and a lot of it has to do with social media and a lot

56:11 that's what I was saying about the, Yeah. Yeah. I think they're worried about a bunch of different things along those lines. I think it's more to educate people how to research as opposed to saying this is or is not true Like I think those are okay. Yeah. Renee DiResta, that's her name, right? people to even consider Trump, but anyone but Hillary. When you are, you know, you're in a position where you have a fairly small network

1:00:52 I want more information from the government, from the corporations. their intention okay i'm not saying that you know regime change behavior is positive or negative. they might just might just decide hey i'm gonna collect this check and i'm gonna and they make that transparency and understanding what's going on with different accounts and if it's the real

1:03:18 Right. And people are really upset with what's happening. their energy i think and vote with their time so it's more of an education thing people just don't That's where it's all based is in user retention and energy. What is the difference between the two obviously with instagram it's just pictures mostly and then whatever the post is below the pictures

1:06:09 what the the whatsapp guy joined signal which is a really cool open source um end-to-end encrypted is what are the challenges for something like mines uh when you're trying to take off like there was a uh social media instagram type Same as the other ones. You know, there's all kinds of think tanks and whatnot that would love to dive into the source code to understand how these companies were actually behaving. So, you know, waving the privacy flag

1:08:32 So it's sort of like the Creative Commons share-alike license, I mean, look at WordPress. It's a hugely successful technology corporation, multi-billion dollars. People share the code. It created a network effect because they did that. It's like the Grateful Dead would let everybody record their music and that's how it spread. So it's actually a good marketing tactic. And it also gives transparency so people can see what the hell is going on. Right. Now, when you started this, what was your objective?

1:10:23 That's a big misconception. So Stripe was some sort of an extension to your site? So they stepped in and said, hey, we don't want this guy to be a part of the site. And that other person's podcast was on YouTube. Right To what I'm thinking ideas that i have i'm not fucking married to them don't argue them look at them look at them and if Then I realized some long time ago, like, there is no good that comes out of that.

1:13:57 gonna i'm not gonna engage and i don't this is gonna sound corny as fuck i don't want to hurt So if I'm expressing something, think you're all high and mighty it doesn't work no people just you know are allergic to i'm accomplishing i forget the that terrible job paraphrasing that and they'll wake up at three o'clock in the morning, they check their Twitter feed and

1:17:03 as like making something more personal What are you supposed to do? Are you supposed to stare at the light? No. I lost it in my holding back a sneeze. in this flat form of two-dimensional text at pictures and this constant stream which you know just looking at your phone it's not that girlfriend is at work on the other side of town and you you guys both have like these similar

1:20:21 using that right well you know they are for sure they definitely are there's a lot of googling going on i'm sorry what is the other one entertainment thing to do i just want to make sure that like, see, even with the robots that we're carrying around now, Yeah. a version called replicant which is which is a fully free version of android that i'm probably

1:22:13 Is it? Wasn't there a blockchain based uh peepeth which you have to pay for everything you do right on on it and so this is why it's it's a cool experiment but it's really in the background while you had your app open and it was on the google play store see if that's true Great battery life. I was an early adopter and it was do you remember that though when the old you know smartphones you could they still had the keyboard

1:25:52 Did you test out that FaceTime bug? Without them picking up. just like all of them. I don't know exactly what's... Yeah, let's listen to it. much away but you know he's acting as if they are going to be the moral authority about the types of content that can exist on the app store yeah so i just don't know Volume, please. Lo ta mode al Dom ray aka to new ways of thinking, but because our own dignity moves us to see the dignity

1:30:53 are they okay i agree you should you probably shouldn't put white supremacy music on but How about the films that you can get on the iTunes store? place so this is in direct conflict with the daryl davis's with confronting these issues right on about her discussing the reality of trans women competing against biological women and that she In Bridgeport?

1:33:59 It's cool. Beat a guy in the face with his shoe, We're not against trans rights. They should. opposition to that and then the idea that everyone's supposed to be lumped in together with Things that were acceptable just a few years ago are totally unacceptable. No, it's incredible material. And you can make some arguments that Owen's not doing so well right now um but he's also developing his following because of the

1:37:17 But that was at a college. And they have to push back against anything that opposes them. The algorithms and the moderators are just not... can i can i please come back right it's that's not that that's not suitable for the communication And then what happens if you tell a person they can't go anywhere? this whole idea of the right to be forgotten online, which is very difficult because deleting things from any database, especially a blockchain

1:41:16 couldn't but he said it's going to be live within you know a matter of x amount of months and he go for it yeah i'd want to see god let's see what's up like, do the nanobots, you know, that Kurzweil talks about, like, do we have control as a community over those robots? it depends on the level of risk you're willing to take i mean you see some of those videos like

1:43:12 Next stop, Far Rockaway. But you know what I'm saying. Yes, like what? Um, yeah. Okay, WhatsApp. Right. they had established this open source network that was facebook and you just came along and advertising we really should maximize the amount of clicks. Well, they grow by maximizing their profits and by maximizing the amount of eyes that get to their advertising so they get more clicks and more people get engaged.

1:46:55 that people have a right to know what is going on. I'm playing devil's advocate by saying that in their position, they have a business, and their business is to make money. it got there because of that because everyone used it and incorporated it into their product Is that possible because you engage with a lot of other super nerds and you guys all have these similar ideas?

1:49:19 this is just where the internet the internet is meant to be decentralized. It sort of started out that way. computer that was your encyclopedia where is that no one uses it okay that's that's different this We're not there yet. Yeah. They probably could, right? But then his platforms are the opposite. Mm-hmm. Same as any job. Like no phones in bed, these kinds of things, like strict lines.

1:54:56 your time that's dedicated to that so much of it it's so taxing and it's so involved and so many people are doing it. Oh, I'd rather just. true in Montreal podcasting in a way and that one of the good benefits of podcasting is that for three hours people think getting better understanding how i think getting way better at communicating and You miss important points. Like, I'm sorry, sorry what were you saying you do that kind of shit and like then the other person

1:57:59 We need management skills, personal management skills. redlining it six days a week you know and i'm doing three different things at a time i have Yeah. i haven't done burpees in i did them today because i was coming i was like i can do burpees And it changed my life. just everybody stop yeah throw a glass of water Well, that was what the Sober October thing kind of turned out to be about.

2:01:31 of personal anxiety that people carry around with them is is a physical energy that's not being you know you burn off 2 000 calories and you I just don't think you should tell people what to do. because it's in vain yeah you can't you can't force people it's like being convinced but it there's some brilliant people that don't work out at all they're brilliant but they just whatever

2:04:49 flowing the actions through our body in unique ways i mean do you accept his theory on free will that because you're trying to be a better person and are you trying to be a better person because but he basically is one of the founders of Creative Commons This discussion is going to be licensed i don't know how how's it going to be licensed you and i some form right here this discussion is going to be licensed you yeah okay i mean you're i think you're licensing

2:06:42 And like if you – because if you think – realistically, we don't own what we're saying. We and like if you because if you if you think realistically we information well you are certainly if you put in the work like let's say you decide to write a book For sure. you know, yeah but the book that you said like if you were an author, but say if you were.

2:09:33 I own your content. And you deserve to be able to do everything you're saying with it. a musician and someone like spotify comes along and says boot do you even make that dude so we're But yeah, but that's a different thing than Stephen King's book. I think it's similar. Yeah, no matter what, you should be No, I know. Yeah, it is – is i mean obviously i play

2:13:59 again i'll be like oh yeah oh yeah we had had 10th grade science together. Oh, yeah. Like, how weird. but your body is going to be like almost completely different. carbon fiber arms and legs john joseph brought him to the comedy store i met him at the ufc when you're still here and what what there he is there's a gentleman right there paul de gelder

2:16:52 We can make him better than he was. and she had artificial legs and i think she could see things and other people couldn't see in the future i feel like there's a disconnect between the state of technology on the planet The people at the head of the line kind of understand where the technology is at currently Tell me. yeah it really is right you know it really is um i really appreciate your perspective and i really

2:20:42 And information also, in a lot of ways is money you know i mean thinking i wonder what that is and i i honestly think that we're moving towards this idea that That's how much a Mustang costs. provide you a social currency that allows you to access more freedoms or more goods or more things, so much access to information they used to have to pay for you used to have to go to schools you have to used to have to earn your way to the position

2:24:33 the government to distribute wealth is because it's it's so inefficient we want to be deciding We have the tech. But I think we need more technologists, scientists in these positions They're scared. Appreciate it. Thanks.