Joe Rogan Experience #1261 — Peter Hotez Transcript

Transcript

0:00 and we're live how are you sir how are you good to see you again i'm thrilled to be here thanks Well, my day job is developing vaccines for tropical diseases. what causes what especially when it comes to something like autism, which is a huge We'd use pejorative terms like mental retardation. It's okay. He was just telling me that our clock is screwed up because of the daylight savings off. Oh, okay. Sorry. Sorry. Should we start again? No, no, no. It's okay.

2:15 So we don't know. Is that based on aptitude tests? someone if they test positive for a disease. Darrell Bock Neurodiversity movement. I forget what I was going to say. She can't do simple math. Right. But so there's no, it's not like you could test positive for syphilis It's a fact. Well, also, they're trying to stop you from talking about it in a certain fashion,

6:11 thing, and actually having intellectual disabilities that go along with it. Well, we're getting there very closely. Vaccines don't cause autism because autism is already underway in early brain development. Is it possible that some people have this tendency towards autism and it's exacerbated by vaccines? serial MRI, how the brain volume starts to increase. And that's very important because

8:37 What are they seeing? which makes a lot of sense if you think about what autism is. We're getting much better at getting arms around the diagnosis. cry and things like that. And then autism will then begin sometime between the first and second Right. You're not a biologist. As far as we can tell. So children without those issues who get vaccinated have no problems,

12:53 Well, there's actually a table that's put out by the National Vaccine Compensation Act that includes Biological variability? As best we can tell right now, that seems to be the case, right? The second part shows not only is there massive evidence that there's no link between vaccines and autism, there's no plausibility because we know so much about autism, how it begins in

15:32 Then the anti-vaccine lobby came along and said, no, no, we didn't mean that. And over 10, 20 years of one in a million, you develop a significant history of cases where children did have issues with vaccines. Well, it's combined. But the point is the immune system is not bombarded. What that means is they've put out now, by some estimates, 500 anti-vaccine websites,

18:47 anti-vaccine books. to counter it so we don't really hear as Why do you think there is this major media empire that's Sure. I understand. which are bleach enemas what yeah bleach giving bleach enemas to kids you can to children the You can Google it or whatever. So in some – So how much of this is being driven by financial motivation peddling these phony autism therapies?

22:30 just a bunch of people that really believe that vaccines do cause autism, they don't truly pediatric grand rounds. So I've had the chance to talk to a lot of pediatricians and nurses and I don't know what the percentage is, whether it's 10%, 15% that are deeply dug in and are I mean, what you're dealing with is these people that maybe they're into a bunch of different alternate therapies,

24:49 Yeah, or whatever, you know, whatever search they do. debates you're saying there's no evidence of vaccines cause debate uh no excuse me that I mean, it seems like if there's this many – if you do a Google search and you're just overwhelmed with anti-vax, it seems like the fight has already been lost, if that's the case. They don't have to go over every book that they sell with a fine-tooth comb.

26:58 I noticed that in Texas, there was where I – child getting measles in terms of their immune system no there's no benefit and that's one of half a million kids dying. And then the Gates Foundation put up $750 million to create the genes and it has nothing to do with vaccines vaccines if you give these vaccines to people without these contracted polio outside of those areas i mean those are the areas where it's common every now and then some cases pop up we had some

30:35 I've said some terrible things about big pharma, and the reason being is painkillers. secretly taking money from Merck and What are you doing with all that money? getting kind of stuck at phase one, phase two clinical trials because we don't have the big You could say, listen, man, you've got to go here and watch this, and it will show you why that's nonsense.

33:16 other problem whenever i talk to someone about i've been doing this a lot lately or i'll talk that you're going to do something to your child that's going to turn your child into someone who's compromised. You're terrified about taking your baby out to Walmart or the public library. When you say anti-vaccine lobby, now I know that Robert Kennedy Jr. is a –

35:24 groups out there. And he's doing other things other than vaccines. He's doing a lot of things about environmental health again i want to bring this up if you're you're complaining there's 19 books ahead of yours that You could actually put a dent in this with a real conversation. Good question. Again, we need somebody who really wants to do a of these variables that contribute to it that you could diagnose people with and that before

38:19 high rates of comorbidities like obsessive compulsive disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Yeah, I read an article about early onset gender dysphoria being connected to young girls with autism. chemicals in the environment, which if you're exposed to for long periods of time during early pregnancy, your child will be born with some features that resemble autism.

40:04 if you really want, if you really think there's We need, you know, employment counseling and help. We need mental health counseling. a scientist. Now, when you're talking about these various chemicals that you think do contribute to or possibly cause autism, maybe we should really concentrate on that and publish You know, one of the problems that we face in this country is that we put a lot of scientific articles behind paywalls, which is a real source of frustration for me.

42:38 now because of people not vaccinating the kids the ones that there's three diseases that i worry You're right, partially right. Last year, there was not a perfect match between the virus and the vaccine, Okay, but let's talk about someone like me who's a healthy person. Maintaining your immune system. right the pharmacist the farm all of my vaccines I've gotten for the last few years have been given by the pharmacist.

45:49 Some people do, right? Yeah, what is that fever? The other vaccine, now that you're getting up there, you have to start considering is the shingles vaccine, Shingrix. working on but that seems ridiculous for someone who works with health yeah yeah sometimes man i No, no. We'll sneak some fries. Sometimes it's not all brain. Really? Hold up. What about essential fatty acids, which are great for your brain, fish oil,

49:01 But you still need your vaccines. Right. I do. No, but I do them for 30 minutes on the treadmill in the morning, and then I take a long walk Well I have a solution to that Yeah Yeah, I have it written out. I know what I'm going to do, especially if it's great if the hotel has a good gym. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. Typically, it would be saline or salt water.

51:32 So this is, again, one of those vaccines that's not a big moneymaker. That's right. this book, the Blue Marble Health book, came out of some number crunching that I did using data Why are they in the 20 wealthiest economies? I mean, clearly in some cases, if you live in poor dilapidated housing without window screens, things like mosquitoes and kissing bugs and sand flies can get inside the house.

55:09 that's exactly it yeah you know i moved into a house once in uh encino down the street from here That's where we're getting a number of these diseases. You just can't get away from them. The big problem is along the Gulf Coast of the U.S. It used to be widespread in the United States. So there's actually a very nice book written by a medical historian at Duke University named Margaret Humphreys called Malaria, Race, and Poverty.

58:20 So do you think that the best cure or the best way to stop malaria would be just to increase the economy of these areas in Africa where they're experiencing it? I think that's part of it. Although now we're seeing some tropical diseases thrive in urbanized hit parade right the top one is one called Ascariasis intestinal roundworm. Schistosomiasis is another one.

1:00:50 And now one of the things that we have found, so Rahelia Mejia on my faculty, So if you're walking around with terrible anemia, of course, you're not feeling up to working a full day It's called Nicator Americanus, the American killer, and that's the name of the worm. Yeah, when I found that one out, I was like, oh, my God, well, that's it. And there is a hookworm vaccine, right?

1:03:19 I think it was to GlaxoSmithKline. And ultimately, it hurt the bottom line of the Probably not. Yeah, but it's also reinforced by the fact they pulled the vaccine. With measles, measles is a killer disease. And this gets into another controversial rabbit hole I'm not sure we want to get into or not today. evidence that they can detect spirochetes in the body in many cases uh uh people who have had

1:06:41 and I'm not an expert on Lyme disease, so i'm not too comfortable going there with you are saying that there's no evidence that uh that that's actually associated or in some cases they're actually taking everyone who comes through the door and diagnosing them with Lyme disease. That's a huge one. the whole region because now Venezuela has one of the largest diasporas of people, as big as the

1:09:30 disease, on the island of Corsica. We've got dengue, chikungunya, West Nile virus across Prototype? Is there an adverse reaction that people have to that stuff? No. And it's one of the leading killers of children globally, right? Right. She's a very funny comedian. Yeah, we were actually discussing it because a friend that I grew up with died from it.

1:12:48 Because that's a big one, right? of AIDS or because if you get some kind of medicine that suppresses your immune system, and then it We don't have good disease burden estimates of toxoplasmosis. Now, there is a related disease from cats called toxochoriasis, and that's a parasitic worm infection we're about in the book and there's no vaccine for that there's no vaccine for and we need very

1:15:38 Wow. And this is an example of a neglected disease. So that's why I'm trying to raise awareness about these poverty-related diseases. But it's very hard to get people to care about diseases of poverty. the lights go out. Another one is Chagas disease, and the list goes on. It's been very hard to get people I mean some African countries have 8% or 9% economic growth, but it's all leaving behind the bottom segment of society.

1:19:01 So I did meet with a couple of people on the Hill, and they asked me that Well, it depends on the disease. So one, doing what I call active surveillance, looking for these diseases. box there for toxicoriasis and Chagas disease. So we need more improved tests, point-of-care It's a paramethamine sulfa drug. That's right. And unfortunately, the primary health care provider is not educated about these diseases.

1:22:22 Then that's why we're trying to develop a therapeutic vaccine for this disease. It's disturbing. the history of systemic racism in places where they just literally would not sell homes to people who are African American. I moved down to the Gulf Coast. something that we just don't want to admit. We have poor people. hidden poverty off the road. And the actual number of people who live in extreme poverty

1:25:21 our acceptance of these communities. And roughly around 5 million Americans living on less than $2 a day, 5 million people living on $14 a week. I mean, what are the diseases we hear about? or something like that. Well, actually, Ebola, you know, it turns out is the opposite of measles. And that's why you get these really large measles outbreaks like you're seeing in Washington State.

1:28:41 that the place is decimated by the collapse in infrastructure associated with awareness and political will. Well, it seems like in this country, ignorance is a big part of it is political will or ignorance or lack of awareness and political will well it seems like Well, I think there's multiple issues. So it falls to academics, to professors, to people trying to do this in the nonprofit sector.

1:32:00 Or know that vaccines don't cause autism. Oh, God, yeah. That could have prevented. Right, and this kid was unvaccinated, right? You see a case of tetanus, you never forget it. It's actually caused by a bacteria. somewhere i didn't read it yeah i just saw it yeah that doesn't make any sense let me ask it's Allergies. talked about how there was a study done in communities where they didn't protect kids from peanut allergies

1:36:11 It's all flim flam. There are vaccine courts, though, right? So, you know, it was, for instance, if you look over a 10-year period, I think it is between, I haven't looked at the numbers in a while, I think it's between 2008 and given, 2.5 billion, of which the vaccine courts identified around 200 Yeah, there's a list, and I talk about it in the book.

1:38:19 And the real danger is these actual infectious diseases spreading and the damage they could do, damage things like tetanus. Right, right. And I said, well, that's true of some. Wow. Is this mostly in warmer climates as well? One of the ones we don't talk about a lot, which is a very serious infection, is West Nile virus infection. But there's no vaccine.

1:41:19 So there's an extremely large investment to develop something along those lines? it out, right? So those of us who are working on poverty-related diseases are still kind of on the outside looking in. so common among the poor in the G20 countries, these are the 20 largest economies to put together And he's been able to show that our vaccines are not only cost effective, they're cost savings, meaning that they're economically dominant, that they'll actually save money. The problem is it still doesn't help you with the fact that you still need some, but the return is on public health.

1:45:07 work, that would figure out how to do this. I just don't have the background to do it. But that's the reality. So it's both good and bad. It doesn't cost $420 to make that vaccine. Lay audiences sort of. into the pediatrician's office with all these factoids and the pediatrician's like well gee i sort of a documentary really on both subjects. Well, they beat me up a lot.

1:49:23 I've been called a round earth shill. There seems to be, and that may be related to as you get older, I really hope that someone does something about that, too. But meantime people can buy your books are they available in audio as well Just at Peter Hotez.