Joe Rogan Experience #1276 — Ben Shapiro Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Go ahead. I haven't been here since you finished it over. You're more of a conservative gentleman than myself. Do you have all that stuff? And I still walk into the office wearing basically an undershirt every day You're an asshole though, thank you. I appreciate you're a very nice guy. You're just conservative. That's the dirty little secret though

2:14 is typically not the favorites of the alt-right and then beyond that i mean i think their ideology They're disingenuous. syndicated column at that point. And when you're 17, you think a lot of dumb stuff. And then you And yet people will suggest that everything I do is about destroying people on the other side because of all the Ben Shapiro destroys videos and all that kind of stuff.

4:06 Yeah, that's exactly right. I opposed President Trump's originally proposed Muslim ban. I've written millions of words. You can look it up. This is you now. hurt this person. So you're going to bring up something from 10 years ago, and then you're You sort of have to look over the broad course of his career. And he ended up doing what everyone now does, which is you just don't apologize for anything.

7:04 These days that gets your face step done, right? You say, I apologize. That was wrong. These days, that gets your face stepped on. You know what? which is you come out preemptively And everybody's like, oh, okay, The problem is that right now, people in the world for things and and finding anything to categorize them as someone who's a viable target and this is

9:16 against virtually every Twitter ban, including people who have personally targeted me. I've she was trying to imply that she was trying to do the same thing that they they do with you for example. They then say that you are a feeder for white supremacy, right? where youtube was going to try to make people responsible for the comments in their videos which what is a normal jamie like

11:46 that they were doing this in many, many videos. It's totally insane, and it's insane in virtually every respect. with the shooter whatsoever. to their own standards. They really do because they have to decide whether they are a platform or whether they are a do-gooder publication. But now Facebook has deemed itself the morality police, and they'll ban people they don't like,

14:02 really like this conversation, so we're just going to kind of shut it down. Not because of legal threat, but because we just don't like it. They're doing it more often with things that we all sort of agree are bad. They're an editor. I didn't think he should get banned from Twitter unless he actually violated the law, unless he was responsible for a violent threat, unless he was defamatory or something.

16:25 It's incredibly progressive, which is very unusual for big business, right? I think Bill Gates has been for a while. I mean, he's still got to be answerable to his shareholders. Did I say Facebook? But here's my thing. the product that you provide is the good. Dude hasn't studied it. given a lot of money to charity, but Microsoft has provided legitimately hundreds of thousands

19:12 And then here's my other side where I show people what a great person I am by proclaiming that I'm for Bernie Sanders while parking my money offshore to make sure it's shielded from the tax man. assessment of you are the moral police i find really troubling and it's so funny i'm the i'm I'm the tyrant. scholar named Cass Sunstein as a legal scholar, and he wrote a book called Nudge. It was very

21:25 another person believes a different thing you should probably talk about it and the way the I have to wonder whether you've really objectively assessed whether or not your argument does hold up against scrutiny. I grew up in L.A. probably haven't shifted very much but my political values have shifted libertarian Not only the government sucks at everything, but that you got to own your own actions and also examining more of the evidence about the impact of pot on people's lives.

23:46 Then there's a case. sure that you need additional laws to do that and also you know i'm not opposed to zoning laws like I think adultery is bad, too. No, I don't. then you start to get unintended externalities. that I don't give two craps about. It's buried somewhere in my garage. And then I have my or I have my synagogue. My synagogue is a religious institution. It doesn't approve of

27:09 I think that it can, and I think in the same way alcohol can. Don't smoke pot when you're young. Especially before you're 25 and your frontal cortex hasn't even fully formed. with many people's perceptions on marijuana is that it's based on ignorance, meaning no personal experience with it. They jump down for a little when a bunch of chickens jump off the boat.

29:18 man i'm telling you because it's not what people think it is if you've never smoked marijuana this to the point like one of the beautiful things about jiu-jitsu is you can grab a hold of someone And they're doing this jujitsu practice in this almost like trends. I think that we should honestly discuss the evidence that for a subset of the population, there is some evidence that marijuana is addicting, but it's a subset.

31:22 It's not even comparable to alcohol or nicotine. problem it's a social fabric problem it's a personal choice problem yes that's why virtually Even silly ones like Mormormons you know they're have in the country right now i'm not sure people are oriented toward even a common sense of of that we would like to see happen in the country, to you was this idea that if you're a religious person, don't you think that there's certain

34:42 that actually that the brain produces, and it's very common in plants. And there's real good discussion that a lot of these experiences this argument to me too about the use of psychedelics um and i mean maybe i mean god You know, one of the things that I'm very big on, I'm a rationalist when it comes to they're taking things they're just guessing i mean there's truth to that but it's also true

37:25 Right. So I've never really felt the urge to do any of that stuff. Yeah. Whether you like drugs or don't like drugs, On this area, I'll admit not only complete experiential ignorance, but complete evidentiary ignorance. I haven't examined the evidence. I really don't have strong opinions on any of this stuff. And there's been other studies done And there's been therapy done On people that are dying of terminal diseases

39:40 Months and months after the experience So, let's pose a sort of thought experiment. Because from a religious perspective, there's an argument to be made that this is work you And the Buddha says, but the ferry's only a nickel. and then they assist them with, different people that have been over there condition is to use these drugs i've never had a problem with any of that stuff,

43:03 Well, that is 100% true. struggling like i think i think the struggle is actually meaningful. I'm forbidden from looking at it. Everything is under that blanket There's a problem Because what these are community or by their church or by their neighborhood, whatever it is, sometimes a little bit of a break, a little bit of a mental break from what you're experiencing and the vibration

45:48 and it's one of the things and they admire that in folks But I'd struggle physically so that I don't have to struggle mentally. Yeah. next month you can't eat this or you can't do that or i want you to start fasting 16 hours a It's one of the reasons I like Judaism as opposed to other religions. with right reason. And that is setting rules for yourself, right? That is not violating every rule.

48:44 You don't know why the fence is there. You say, I don't know why this fence is here. But I think people are kind of ungrateful about the fact that we live in the best possible time in the best possible place. Like starvation is not a serious problem in the United States. sure but to classify this time as being a terrible time is i think wholly inaccurate by the way i

50:41 other people's perspectives and points of view, So one of the statistics that really bothers me is that the level of American mobility and the town is dying, the industry left. Well, you have, the government somehow owes it to you, But one thing that is guaranteed to you is the opportunity for adventure in this country. better than you started in American society. I mean, we're talking like the most basic choices,

53:03 of constantly being rich and people grow up uh this perspective of constantly being rich and people I mean, this is what J.D. Vance talks about in Hillbilly Elegy, right? back where a guy came to me i bought some art from him he's a an artist and uh really does good work he came to me and he government isn't just a giant cash machine that is exists you you money, but that that money actually comes from somewhere.

55:11 then, and, And then the problem is doing it in some sort of a non-denominational way who's a sociologist over at Harvard. He wrote an entire book about the social fabric called And we believe in a certain core set of values. principles. But that starts to break down when I'm being asked to give charity just on a personal who basically agrees with me about fundamental values

57:57 And now we're on the same page. Like, are you more willing to give charity to somebody who has a plan for how to get themselves out of the hole? well, this is a rich country. They were young. He said like, you could work. Why aren't you? And that gave him the impetus to get up and do what, Everybody's fucking up. And sometimes kids, just like you were saying with Adam Carolla,

1:00:51 You know, raising awareness of our history and all the bad things that we've done. and my parents had said to me, no matter what you do, you will be put under the thumb of the is make basic decisions I mean, especially in LAUSD, where you basically have to be able to read decision. people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps if you have a real if you really have an honest

1:03:36 sure that they're best at it and they're they're amazing at it so seizing your money and and paying It can't just be here's a check. It just doesn't make any sense. These crazy white people. selling pills you know everybody's on these pills so you're all whacked out you don't know what the there's got to be some way where you can give these people the opportunity to step out of that pattern.

1:06:38 Right. So our episode comes out on Sunday, and obviously Andrew is a big fan of UBI, universal basic income. the people you're talking about who are suffering, a crisis of purpose right now. And I don't think that that crisis of purpose is solvable jobs and these people are not going to have anything and that it could be chaos right so I'm still not sure that that solves the deeper problem, which is that when people lose jobs, they lose purpose.

1:09:15 By a little bit, I mean a fair bit less catastrophic in my thinking about automation than either Right. i can say whatever i want to you but it's uh but yeah i mean i think that but if you just say it to this is a stupid thing that someone said about coal miners. It was like, no, then learn to code got connected That means if you say learn to code,

1:11:05 They turned the freaking frog gay. happens incredibly rarely. The idea that we are on the verge of a catastrophic drop in job numbers First of all, that brings down cost, and you won't get cancer as advanced. more of a productivity aid to people. figure out why they failed and we'll never have it happen again. is enervation that comes from from a welfare check i mean there are people who become dependent on

1:13:42 They might just be buying ho-hos and cigarettes right i mean the the average the average person who is making less than i think worst case scenario, right? Where someone does get dependent upon the welfare state and does use that money frivolously and does make poor decisions but then But I think part of this is to recognize that incentives matter on both ends.

1:15:29 don't have don't don't have unprotected sex i mean like this this is not it's not pardon my Should the kids suffer? How about we assume that if you are old enough to get pregnant, then you are old enough to, And the kid being without a man in the house There were a lot of seven-month babies in the 40s and 50s. um on a moral level yes no but if i'm going to if i'm going to compare that to having a baby

1:17:38 I think you like making it. In all those houses It's like Backlog of internet There's all the music It never ends course of course yeah you're so interesting i i was i was a concert level violinist until i was it's not. This isn't the tens What was the big deal? that was worth maybe $1,300, This is, it's a good investment. Certain parts of it are thicker or thinner.

1:20:40 Yasha Heifetz, who's widely considered the greatest violinist to ever live, he had a Strad. and puts it to his ear I like some classic rock. Yeah, yeah. Going to the Doobie Brothers concert with the other boomers. all makes sense to me i understand it but um why do you care if uh two gay guys want to get married But the traditional sort of will point of view is that biological drive does not necessarily match up to the activity you ought to engage in.

1:23:25 and a man is made better through his union with a woman and that if you pervert the sex drive to And also recognizing that the sexes are not different, right? to a member of the same sex would right but i don't want people to have to do it but if you're Well, again, I think that's a conflation of – So in religion, if a man is gay, in your religion, yes a man is gay and they're in love with another man they should just squash

1:26:25 Sure. But say you can't, but by whose determination? testament right yeah that's right that's our stuff right new testament that it gets a little harsher You're violating a commandment. Now, again, you don't have to agree with my program. I'm not trying to convert you. You have to keep Shabbat. Go ahead. It's like three years when it comes to And I fully acknowledge that when the value of marriage shifted from

1:30:05 understanding about biology like it so if it was proven if there's proven like oh this is why a Honey, let me just show you the paperwork. I think either way. for religion don't you think that's a good one though for pork i mean i don't know like i think Because you tell the story. Well, again, their attempts to sort of paint back into the Bible certain rationalistic explanations like this was—

1:33:11 you think he was what do you guys i mean i what i what do i think he was historically i think he was belief. Okay, I just want to check. Yeah, no. makes sense i mean that's so that's what my monodies is constantly trying to do is read But the new book, The Right Side of History, number one New York Times bestselling nonfiction book. by that. But the basic contention

1:35:05 like religion is going to dominate reason. We tend to get very utopian very quickly. religion has morphed over time i mean judaism as it was practiced originally probably in many ways I brought down these books from the mountain, In other words, you have to acknowledge there are certain fundamental truths that exist there, and then there's play as far as how those are implemented.

1:37:23 I assume that a vast majority of young Jewish men, that when they say that something is a sin, because I have a desire for the sin, But clearly written by people. That's the natural law case against homosexual activity. And neither is Catholicism from what I understand. against the favored view of sex right that's that's sort of like arguing that intersex people

1:40:29 And from my moral perspective, you try to avoid sin as best you can. No, I think that all sin is a recognition that we have drives that we are supposed to forego. But I think we can both agree that this is one of the one of the best benefits of an ideology and hopefully a positive ideology right and one of the things that i the reason i We'd have him over to our house with his husband.

1:42:21 You wouldn't even go to the party? You'd be a great party. That is certainly true Yeah than from the right and it's really disturbing i always thought until this clickbait generation might go away it's it's again trying to lump everybody into one group for purposes of things that people in the church believe you probably could if you donate you got to give

1:45:06 You know, that bake a cake story because it gets bandied about. Seriously, like, go to the other bakery. to to put it out there in the public eye so that people understand that this is a discrimination That's a weird one. Whatever. I'm sorry. But should it be a law to force someone to think differently? Those are my beliefs. did he get butthurt? I don't know.

1:47:54 Yeah. greedy bitch you know unless it's like 30 bucks on the uber yeah it's like your wife or your and it's going to make it a much more difficult atmosphere for communication, conservative some people are libertarian you can joke with each other we can all get along together And if I have a belief system that's different than yours, then so the hell what?

1:50:51 here's some somebody not her prostitution is clearly more of a choice than i think gay people Yeah, again, a Christian thing. I don't see why it bothers you. when it comes to the gay thing what people are looking for is to people for other folks to be and identity is actually kind of a dangerous one meaning that the you know the the idea that if i You disapprove of my view on this.

1:53:31 You think it's like God spoke to somebody on a mountain is bullshit, right? I have a deep affinity to pigs. so I assume there are things they're the smartest if the juice is worth the squeeze. is because of the fact that your religion right of your religious i think it's cross training i I guess the point is And that's okay It would be hard to keep it on your head, frankly.

1:55:33 But that seems painful and uncomfortable. How often do you debate people on the merits of religion or the merits of your belief system? I like Sam a lot. Now can we talk about the stuff we think are the, and, If you believe that human beings are effectively just animals, then I don't know why they would I mean, yes, but I'm not sure why that would indicate any sort of greater existential value.

1:58:15 I'm saying that I think it's less convincing than Sam thinks it is. worked for a very, very long time. And the simple and effective idea that the reason that human I have serious questions about whether pure reason necessitates those conclusions. when we were debating this in San Francisco I've studied these philosophies and I've studied science and all this. He said, right, I know, here's where I've studied. I've studied Buddhism. I've studied these philosophies, and I've studied science.

2:00:16 There's a weird kind of nexus on what truth is where you've heard Sam and Jordan Peterson Jordan tends to be more of a pragmatist. Like what are you talking about in terms of objective truth? so you can have group bonds that are beyond 150 people or whatever. processes of biology and have a unique capacity to understand that universe because we are made in the image of God.

2:02:23 You can attribute most everything to God, as some would say, right? So how is that testable? And obviously something happened happened something pretty radical It's got to be moving towards some better product. It keeps going until it creates. Yeah, that's a weird conversation. as opposed to just an evolutionarily beneficial firing of neurons, without any free will, without any capacity to choose.

2:06:29 Right. group i'm in the latter group i think as well i think we also experience great benefit from making will or are you doing that because of a combination of both of those things and can you fuel that free will purposely through like outwardly seeking things that are motivational or things that are He'll talk about self-betterment and decisions that you can make.

2:08:35 where i'm the kind of guy that gets upset if i fuck things up right i don't know i don't know I agree. knows, man, maybe your tolerance for gay folks. we can't be friends or I disapprove of you as Fuck, it would be annoying. the village people and go have a fucking party that's why santa monica boulevard is such a hot you are a reasonable person and you do you're very polite and you're you're even friends with dave rubin so there you go there's gotta be something there it's um it's a strange thing

2:12:19 it i mean as human beings yeah these are human beings i know many gay people who i think are Yeah. have a defined religion but in a way i have some pretty rigid ideas that i have in my head about I think we all do. We're not just free willy-nilly, just do whatever we want all day long. My reasons are the only ones that matter. Well, I'm enjoined. Of course that's true.

2:15:07 If you like God's liaison. But I want you to ignore that. akin to any other challenge create it did you create a baby out of that did that is that baby like a part of your life now there's no such thing as your truth there's the truth and then there's your opinion and we do have How is this possible? being correct, and they take the most rigid They're either trying to get me to react to it and talk about it and get more clicks.

2:18:11 You're connected with them because you're a part of that, even though you don't have a similar notion. yeah his entire argument was don't allow people to push into alt-right answers Right? That's not how religion is supposed to work. they thrive in business they're extremely motivated they're extremely disciplined it's like And also, like, what is the impact of the measurable on how we live our lives?

2:21:14 they'll do that anyway like one of the one of the funniest things about white supremacists is they're Well, the disingenuous media that's being less and less taken seriously. perspective on national subjects and things that are important to us. It's not their obligation to just report what's going on, but also their obligation to flavor CNN's liberal, and they are going to give you the liberal spin on the spin on the news that's the way it's going to work right and guess what cnn's liberal and they are going to give you the liberal spin

2:23:07 with his face on them well, I guess that now you were supposed to do, guys. came in let's talk about russia and i was like okay fine so we get on the producer said that And I was like, well, I don't see any evidence yet that it was a thing. if you disagree with that for whatever reason you must either be a with donald trump how much did he ask for? You've got no evidence. Also, I was always bewildered by this theory.

2:26:01 And they put together a point-by-point plan on how they're going to swing this particular precinct in rural in rural michigan it's like what what are you are you guys exactly right i mean i said for a long time that you know i'm not a big fan of trump's fake news Oh, yeah. Who the fuck was that? that they have inside information about trump that turns out to be utter nonsense i'm not sure

2:28:13 There's a lot of that. If this is something that you didn't just say once, They put a beat behind it. And then there's music that goes with it, they blew it in a major way and you decided to go to Do you want to get out of here, man? And so they've got her in solitary formerly known as bradley if we're talking about the human being who's currently in jail that is a

2:30:40 And it used to be that WikiLeaks was very good, remember? Exactly. It was right and left, I really don't know enough about WikiLeaks to really get into a sort of historical – right he's fucked man when they're gonna come They took his internet away, right? That's why people were pissed. That was the claim anyway. but so when one of the things that i was thinking when trump got into office with all this drain

2:32:52 I mean, it's the same sort of thing. And then five minutes later, he was droning people. It's a kind of short-form philosophical history of the West from Sinai through Greece That's really pretty spectacular. Sunday special. All the places, yep.