Joe Rogan Experience #1311 — David Pakman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 hello david here we go we're live we're doing it yes we're doing it what's going on man i'm nervous dunking. Some of it's warranted. It is warranted. on the fence or if you're not really quite sure how you feel about things and you see someone get together i don't know people who are on opposite sides of the climate debate for example good luck in a way that you can't even agree as to like what the starting point facts are about the

3:12 but you got to stay away from just ad hominem. Yes. Yes. I agree. And I think that it's just Like it says I made 19 cents and he says, It says I made 19 cents. And he says, doing this i guess why not some people probably want to watch it. but at least there is some sort of like a and all of that stuff so just overnight 30 going away huge. And that's why I've tried to move

6:34 Here's the problem when it goes from I am fighting white supremacist content to an algorithm can't distinguish between that and white supremacist content. connections like Joe Rogan knows David Pakman. It's like guilt by association. Although I don't know you personally beyond just seeing your shows. channels do really well on youtube so if you interview someone who has a channel themselves there's a very good chance that the algorithm if they're watching your interview with that person

9:34 and then they started auto playing the next video auto play yeah i think there was a some kind of rich labeled you oh it's rich okay yeah i was going to say they labeled you as right but you're He had almost no chance when he didn't know what Aleppo was. It's a joke, yeah. Right. that could be levied if one wanted to make it into a criticism would be if you engage with

12:02 elaborate. And I feel like by doing that, I get a sense of how they've them to elaborate right and i feel like by doing that i get a sense of how interview that I did, some of the criticism I received after was from people on the left. different religions that have different points of view like why uh yeah well they they have a series of uh you know decades

14:26 That's number one. How did he come to prominence? Right, right. your pushback? I mean, he had answers. He was well prepared. I don't know if there were unique A very small portion of the left. And I always struggle with this because, as you can see, I have no problem criticizing that sliver of the left my concern is getting like overly wrapped up to criticisms of the left

17:36 that the left needs to contend with right now? participant in what is clearly a leftward move in sort of the average American's political orientation. I mean I saw it with healthcare recently. The numbers can be made to work any number of different ways. That confuses the shit out of me. No one wants anybody they care about to not have access to health care.

20:57 It's impossible. And it's trillions of dollars. tell us that with roughly the same amount of money maybe a small payroll tax in addition with roughly That sounds great. And it's very hard to change people's minds when that's their view. Yeah, how do you when it's an ideologically based decision It's just not the same quality healthcare Yeah. Even in saying the UK system and the Canadian system, neither one is that good.

24:27 I mean, the Canadian system is administered at the province level. So when we say the British and Canadian systems aren't that good, so systems are right but i believe that most of the best doctors in terms of like north america And some of the best doctors earn a really good living. that even though on paper in a socialized medicine system, they might make less for a particular

27:37 clinic or whatever the case may be, I don't know that it's that clear that they end up often being paid out of pocket anyway. So it's less, at least some, that and if that's what that is the strict father mentality that just the only thing that makes sense to me is that you don't want people who are kind of half-assing through education, could apply to trade school. They could apply to retraining programs. There's

30:03 By the time he got out, it was all useless. a social Democrat like myself, and actual socialism, like what should happen with the gains that come from those explain what you said and what she said what she had said that you disagree with so Biggest Dem vote getters in history, Obama 08, Hillary 16. You said there's a word to describe that. the semester i'm employed there and the other nine months i'm not so i think boston college

33:45 I think she probably got upset and then you're forced to, you know, extraordinarily toxic and horrible negative stuff that is only a distraction to what I'm was that bad right and then you read that one bad comment fuck are they right yeah you don't read I'm just trying to limit the amount that I'm on social media. I'll do my show. So you'll have five hours to recover?

36:10 I mean, it's been a fantastic experience. It's something on your iPhone. You'll know how much you're looking at all screens soon. That's how I work, bitch. makes me significantly less likely to even pull them up. It's two clicks to swipe up and scroll But yeah, it's not good for you. There's a lot of other people to pay attention yes there are there are a few people that tweet

38:40 What is the book called again? Did you reach out to her when she did that? get you fired right yes i did did she respond i don't know because she blocked me oh god damn it And I had posted something totally innocuous about There's a gang, but there's a big one. If someone near and dear to me died, I wouldn't go to your Facebook. You wouldn't necessarily be on Twitter.

41:11 I tend to give the benefit of the doubt I mean, yeah, I don't, It would have been a different situation. You got a little twinkle in your eye. I think they fall in line and they adopt a predetermined pattern of behavior that seems to be attractive at the time. Stephen Crowder got into it with this guy who is a writer for Vox, on antifa specifically what i saw and in in doing that he called called him this queer Mexican.

44:10 If Steven Crowder calls him queer, what is queer? You know what I'm saying? Because there's a lot to unpack here. So in the article where they made the decision not to act, they actually put what YouTube's terms of service are with regard to bullying and harassment. a lot of that he was dismissing antifa but if you look at crowder's video and i i can't believe i

46:14 all the murders, that there were sexual assaults It's just, what does he think? not like a part of their their organ it's i think the principle though is you're suggesting that that but i don't necessarily think the t-shirt is for carlos meza i think that's a t-shirt that Are you really? I made it. but nobody knows about them. 1,000 subscribers. I don't know that.

50:48 I'm basing it on that they're a part of Facebook, and Facebook is pretty clearly left-wing. paying taxes legally. That is not a particularly left-wing thing to do. Google is part of the What do you think? What I'm saying is we know the way in which the structure that Google is a part of leads to it advocating for things that are center-right, corporatist, capitalist.

53:43 It's a live read sort of thing. So he can do that. i think he pretty clearly did the concerns to me are um is is youtube only going to even look into under what they are now claiming is the justification for the demonetization it would And that as long as you're not doing anything illegal, you're not putting anyone in danger by giving up their address or doxing them or something along those lines or making overt physical threats, that you should be allowed to do that because that's what the freedom of the speech is all about and freedom of speech when you eliminate social media in this

57:06 bar before we will remove anything and quite frankly we're just too busy what do you mean is great. That's my personal principle. However, I think that there is no serious case to be made it. That's one thing that falls under antitrust. That's different than saying the government should come in and it should tell anybody who runs a social network that you can't even, you can't do

59:59 It is more regulation, but it's regulation to keep a private company from regulating against free speech you see what i'm saying it's it's a sneaky kind of regulation it's a regulation that's I don't know how you stop it. I mean, fucking God damn it. And UPS says, we're getting reports that you're sending people harassing stuff. But I guess the question is

1:02:05 coming to your phone and the phone is ringing i think that's a another step that's another step or based on what they feel is offensive or other people don't, And I'm worried about people that are really strictly trying to promote their ideologies and what they think is okay and not okay. And that's his position. that to someone in a bar a queer they're going to ask you to leave and it still would not be illegal and the bar would still not be doing anything right but that's a bar right that's a private business

1:06:08 because he's still on youtube he still is able to upload his show on youtube he will have to find There's no alternative to YouTube for him to regain that same level of monetization. But this isn't a left-wing- In the process of going after the argument, with this is youtube only getting involved in even publicly saying what they're doing about a channel

1:08:49 But there has I've I've read some comments on some of the few articles that have been written about this that are saying that this is effectively YouTube enforcing a defense of identity politics so to speak and i think that that's just again understand how one's identity might make us think differently about certain issues. I mean, I'm not interested in the oppression Olympics, and I'm not interested in using identity

1:11:22 I like to treat people based on who they are, not what You know, they get points from certain types of behavior that they support, certain types of thinking that they support. of the problem exists in the college campus setting. But I mean, even at Boston College, But when you see videos like Nick Christakis getting just shouted down at Yale by a group of students and that they supported the students and that kind of shit, you say, well, it is real and it does exist.

1:14:10 like a different thing that's a very good example yeah it's a very good analogy yeah i think we friend jamie kilstein was uh they turned on him and then you know devastated his life and he So there's people on the left and right who get pulled into political whatever. I'm glad to debate any of these issues with anybody who wants to Yes. it's like scroll this is why scrolling twitter endlessly is a problem because there's really

1:18:05 with me in at least like lowering the temperature a little bit and getting people to maybe engage a framework as to what is keeping you right from seeing this my way because sometimes that exists And I think we need more of that. Maybe they are. a shit storm of a very certain kind. My goal is I don't pretend to be neutral. I think neutrality is almost always false because on most issues, people are not indifferent.

1:21:19 thing. And I get emails from conservatives who say, I don't agree with your conclusions, I think this is the most polarized time I can remember as a 51-year-old man looking back at my history of paying attention to social issues I don't know if you've paid any attention to – Sam Harris had a fantastic podcast with – and we had one with her as well renee di resta when they di resta

1:23:13 has been arguing absolutely i don't do it i don't engage but i do go on facebook sometimes and polarizing tweets. And then the sub responses that are most But I know that three hours of it is me staring at butts on Instagram, looking at muscle cars and watching crazy videos. Yeah. there's like chess streamers that I watch and it's like similar. Yeah.

1:25:28 Like on weekends when people, Did your mom watch your show? could you imagine some mean dad calling you out what the fuck is wrong with you david i might you might meet someone with whom you have 80% in common in terms of your political views, of one's entire political views. and it's hard to relate or even be in the same room because only those differences are sort of

1:28:26 Yeah, that might even need regulation. Is that different, in your opinion, than someone singling something out for what you believe is their mental incompetency? What does Sam do to Dave Rubin? I don't know that I've seen that video. Then you are mocking someone for a disability. I didn't see that in the Steven Crowder decision that the reaction was part of YouTube's evaluation.

1:31:55 anonymous people that can just lash out at someone and insult them out of nowhere ultimately they are try to do something about whoever it is that you're targeting. That individual who has the show and is hammering on this person day after day after day, or specific terminology you know imagine that there's a local business that i don't like right you could somehow another remove your

1:34:56 figs t-shirt yeah oh well that's all he has to do he specifically asked about that and then they But that is more egregious. It's not necessary. oh yeah yeah so when he so his show is a comedy show wow yeah a lot of it is funny he does some I mean Mrs. Doubtfire, isn't that funny? He does. I don't agree with him constantly going on and on about this guy being queer

1:38:06 That's so minor that it's hard to, I mean, it's mind-blowing. fucking david packman man i here's my deal with that guy and then you just So I'm just gonna shit all over and give them my my real opinion that they wouldn't say if he was there in person right but sure what they're doing yeah and they're saying things that they wouldn't watch the thing or whatever i'll use vocabulary that i might not use in person but at least what

1:41:22 reasonable negotiating partners for figuring something out. over 10 million, whatever, right? Like fill it all in. All those people are going to be able to So all of this stuff, you know, there's this new movement now, sensible way be incorporated into an actual good faith discussion of how society should be organized. how that becomes integrated into a decision about tax policy. Right. I think the argument would be

1:43:51 There's a lot of people in the cubicles right now that are weighing in and firing up, and there's people that want to dox him again, and there's people who want to infiltrate his Facebook and his Twitter. the oh okay the a or an a is a fig okay it's for figs it's the idea it's an eye. Got it. Okay. It's a goofy joke. You can't call people colored people.

1:45:53 it's the same way with jew right right if i'm in a family thing and it's a bunch of jews or whatever and that's stunning to me. Oh, okay. who is going to talk about let's take control back from the jews but we see him as the closest thing directly linked to the other, but if you're a group that already has these views, and then you And they know exactly why it's appealing because they see the signals and the vocabulary and the dog whistling.

1:48:56 It's just, I guess they find groups of like-minded folks about the community that was appealing to them. Like gangs. Because Trump is the president. yeah i mean that's an important thing to talk about. I mean, people call me that all the time. Isn't he in trouble right now? Yeah. It's a little weapon to use. then integrating it into how they figure out what they think about the world around them.

1:53:18 Thank you. Yeah. The vast majority of people are nice. Right. I mean, I do worry that no matter what happens in the next few elections, I don't know how we reverse the radicalization, polarization effects of the social media echo chambers that we've been talking about. that if what has changed the way we communicate is technology and the immersive aspect of social media technology.

1:55:53 And I think it's going to be, if you look at the trend, the trend is not towards calming people down and giving people space and allowing people to meditate more. videos and now you're getting into cryptocurrency now cryptocurrency is essentially ones and zeros most recently so uh like 15 years ago i read the richard k morgan book altered carbon and at the

1:57:34 The series is quite good, yeah. was the acceleration of what we know of as wealth ownership what it was like the start right so much and then that we brought other places Sure. Well, thoughts would be a next step. But at minimum, I mean, replacing, you don't need the screen on your phone. Magically. is really cool which it're still just watching through

2:00:00 what Magic Leap does, or projecting onto the glass And they're so much I think we're giving up agency to something that has no feelings for us at all. And that as things advance more and more quickly, whatever damage is potentially going to be done Exactly. Have you heard that that's happened to other guests? No one's paid you. And they're like, well, you've talked about people before that have had products before.

2:03:23 Sure. You don't have to watch it. Absolutely. like, we're going to have to charge you six times as much type of thing. It's easier to get the Thank you. and my website, DavidPakman.com.