Joe Rogan Experience #1385 — Paul Stamets Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Three, two, one. And you have newfangled mushroom hats. spark guns ignite the gunpowder really so it's amadou and uh it comes from a birch polypore It allowed for the portability of fire. And it's a fabric that you pull, and that mushroom there will become one hat or maybe more. And so it's called German felt, and it's been used for literally thousands of years,

2:41 And so beekeepers use it for a smoking. But it's the same thing basically. Someone smoking a joint or near a fire or smoking a cigarette. And then it shrunk down to four or five. Interesting. Not only revolutionized warfare, not only allowed for the portability of fire for us to save ourselves from the coldness, and these wood conks are very strong in antiviral properties

6:52 publication ecosystem. Now, that's phenomenal because that's the most credible scientific And I think the reason why this article is in the top 1% of all Nature articles is that I've been able to present the theory with proof now that a natural product can have a broader bio-shield of benefits than a pure pharmaceutical. Every almond you eat was visited by a bee.

8:55 Because of the lack of bees. It says fungi.com slash bees. Now watch. this is where the citizen scientists all over the world can take action to be able to help Now think if you're a cattle rancher We're working with a very, very large computer company And so the solar power will then upload the data into the cloud. Can we help? I think it's awesome.

12:40 Billion. They have a distributed network their own social And my friend, Dr. Steve Shepard, entomologist, So he overcame his fear of bees. Now, many of your listeners are out in the country. So the immune system of the bees, due to factory farming, loss of habitat, deforestation, glyphosate, heavy metals, pollution, all those things are cofactors. In the flower.

17:06 I mean, it's- What happens is because the newly hatched bees are called nurse bees, and the nurse bees take care of the baby bees. seen convincing evidence. It's a hypothesis that's not fully fleshed out. There are some When we were on Fear Factor, we had a bee stunt. trying to figure out why, hey, what are you guys here for? That's extraordinary. Well, because 10 to 20% of the bees in the treated colonies went to the control colonies,

21:11 but it makes sense what you're saying, that they built their beehives in these rotting trees And I mean, think of that. essential nutrients that are important for the immune system to activate gene sequences that attack the viruses and give more host-defensive But bees is an animal clinical study. broader bio-shield of benefits than pure pharmaceuticals that go after one molecule

24:13 I do believe that's on the near-event horizon. just spoke at singularity university stand for medical school in front of a thousand physicians and there's a lot of people now that are starting to look to it for treatment for people with PTSD or addiction issues. That's amazing. But one of them that came out, Johns Hopkins, for breaking tobacco addiction.

26:48 And the other research for PTSD, depression, with the clinical studies is like, it almost is too good to be true. Statistically significant, So my team and Pam Krisco is an MD from British Columbia. I mean, obviously, you know what camp I'm in. I'm getting younger, dude. So the idea with microdose.me is that we'll create a massive data set massive amount of data and then we'll offer this

30:22 So the ability of being able to have better cognition, better neurological development, and helping hearing, vision, depression. microdosing and then the definite microdosing is is has sort of variable interpretations interesting study that came out with mice, but I think it's translational medicine, and they were doing After 10 rotations, the mice realized, like Pavlov's dog, when there is a tone, there's going to be a negative consequence, a shock happening.

33:34 Well, that's a really good question. all the receptors, are feeding these receptors that are allowing for neurogenesis. Now, this is, But then post-wise and then looking at the residual effects. Are you comparing data between the two of you? What are you using? and it's used as a baseline for measuring neurogenic compounds comparatively. They're not Schedule I substances. Psilocybin analogs are not? What is exactly the psilocybin analogs, which are perfectly legal. They're not Schedule I substances.

37:43 The child developed a fever, eventually had renal failure, and died. It's a dimethyltrypamine-based compound, and they named it Beocystin, after psilocybe Beocystis. I have no psilocybin. pam she's an md that goes into um into antarctica she's the only doctor on a research vessel Now, I mean, I have American Express, you know, plane tickets, hotels.

40:27 You know, please. And she checked with me and she checked with me and she asked, and I didn't get high. I'm not is up to $6,000, $7,000 a gram. And you can translate that into growing salzheimer's covensis, microdose, you add 100 to 200 milligrams of niacin. the nerves of the fingertips and toes. We were talking last time. there are reports reports james

44:33 It's like, it's immediate. How many people? science so much is the scientists when you can't do a clinical study you we bioassay this is very The most famous of all and the most revered. and statistically significant now association may not be causation but it can be but a more Yes. Look, man, this could be a very profitable enterprise for some company.

48:32 for ingenuity for us to feel that we have meaning. out and said in Europe and North America, they have good data collection. In Amazon, they don't. There's so many smart people out there. And that we have evolved within this complexity, then to delve into that library of knowledge and pulling out applicable solutions, vetted by science, controlled studies, but not looking at these pharmaceutical pure molecules as the way of the future, but looking upon the complexity of the microbiome, the complex interrelationships, and selecting out microbiomes that then create guilds of solutions

50:56 And again, selling this stuff, like if, look, we're seeing what's happening right now with medical marijuana and then shifting to commercial marijuana and now hemp. And it's changed their economy due to just a really obvious shift. what is oakland specifically they've made ayahuasca psilocybin what else um all natural You arrest him and you take him to a prosecutor.

52:51 ability of some people having access and not if you want i only trip on suicide mushrooms once or enforcement no i understand that but i just wish there was no incentive at all there was nothing rights uh against the the big man, against the federal government. There's probably 20 cities in the next 16 months that are going to have decriminalization at the city councils.

55:14 drugs. Those drugs are escape drugs. And the need to escape is what we got to eliminate. And I think And these scientists are looking at just pure science without politics. He spent 12 years working on this movie. is that this is literally a quote-unquote underground movement that's welling up. Where can you get it? feet wow i i thought archie bunker was one of the most lovable racist conservative assholes i've ever

59:12 and it's got a hundred percent on rotten tomatoes i mean people just don't see this is that these theaters multiplicity of stressors and these stressors lead to malaise, depression, disease, crime, None of them would admit that they did. We just try to make money. look, I'll do this deal with you, between all these companies good movie that's the that's a sequel yeah spore wars

1:02:35 there's something more there and i'm like you listen to yourself yeah go to work go goddamn feel younger yeah and i go to these ted conferences every year But they awoke into something. so it's a competitive advantage to those other computer companies that do not. It's a trick. made on humans what what what is the negative impact of my ambition on the people that around

1:06:55 A lot of people I've talked to exactly what you're talking, you're, you're mentioning One of my books, Psilocybe and Mushrooms of the World, has a great chapter in it, I think, called Good Tips for Great Trips. give these people some space, who's just watching. They go off to deep end. voices in his head, but the voices now were friendly. Because there is a difference between pre and post, right?

1:10:32 at lower doses you can see things at higher doses you you don't right um so it's an entire spectrum I start writing. You have a beard. But there's a lot. correct large data sets. And that's why I'm hoping microdose.me is going to give us an enormous What do you think is responsible for that shift from TED of 2008 to TED of 2019? And Michael Pollan, bless his heart, I love him.

1:14:03 Why would he do that? But the good news about that is I have gone to these state parks, and because there's big signs of no mushroom picking and law enforcement's there, there's lots of mushrooms. Can you imagine that? Because if you touch the mushrooms – Just take a big fat baggie. Yeah. I know a ton of cops. they have to do this so i i found that most law enforcement officers are extremely reasonable

1:17:04 You're producing this as a factory. You know, take it in the chin and during a commercial operation right you're avoiding taxes right you're in medical marijuana or you know commercial marijuana i've been offered and i'm always like i just don't think this is the right because you And I was so frigging stoned. And so the next day, I said, Dad, I've got to tell you

1:19:06 life and um he was very religious and i was concerned i would shake his reality tree so several weeks at stanford medical school at these other conferences that i go to which Yeah, that is powerful. Yeah. I'm Paul Stamets. Yes. for other people you're not improving whatever your art is, whatever it is that you try to do in this life to leave your mark or to contribute or to be creative.

1:22:27 angry people should eat mushrooms that's true i really agree agree with that so well you know there is good evidence that lion's mane also uh compensates in many of these uh neurogenic And so the lion's mane stimulates neurite outgrowth and basically extends the nerves from growing compared to baseline. So it should conceivably help you learn. with lion's mane and the psilocybin analog. There's a theoretical additive effect, 114 plus 107,

1:25:19 Maybe we're diluting it. 100 times less, So that's the PK conversion. Wow. And so we see this stuff is so potent. Please dilute it. Dilute it. Dilute it. Wow. And so when he was looking at the mycelium fighting bacteria, That's the window it's growing in. mushroom references.com is populated with dozens upon dozens of peer-reviewed articles showing the mycelium is far more active than the fruit bodies.

1:29:26 Well, animals engage mushrooms. Oh, okay. It's setting up guilds and microbiomes and collections of cooperating bacteria that can help them defend against pathogens. and it knows that you're there these are sensitive these are not only externalized stomachs because they're antibacterial properties, they're probacterial properties. So the two go hand in hand.

1:33:12 in this data set. And he was sent over to the Nagano Prefecture to look for this. Now, these during our lifetime too. Do you think that would all be established by now? stress damage collaterally. And so the article that's just coming out with BMC, Biomed Central, Alternative and Complementary Medicine, peer-reviewed, So it's a buffered response. So that speaks to the fact that there appears to be something that's coding within the ecosystem

1:37:09 On a caterpillar larvae in the Himalayas, elsewhere in China in the Far East. What is a true anamorph of Cordyceps sinensis? It's multiple species that are co-occurring, chasing each other inside the cordyceps mushroom as its fruits. talking about. It's like it's all lingo means is basically there's a mushroom with a whole bunch of other fungi. they were using oh wow so it speaks to the complexity of the system so and how many people

1:40:19 to understand that everyone was actually doing good culture work. They were using cordyceps mushrooms. That's exactly right. The clear evidence is showing that the problem— What company is this that you gave me? Host Defense and there's their website where someone can grab this? Yeah, I take cordyceps. It's got a birch polypore called pitipore specialinus.

1:43:43 I have 110 employees, and I created my company in order a year now. I have 110 employees, Beta-glucans are big polymers of sugars. That is a disparate range of data that does not give you any confidence. Because I was arguing the beta-glucans are a huge scaffolding. And then they took that product without the lipids and it reduced immune response by 83%,

1:46:26 Cholesterol's good for you. I like calling it primordial. we haven't identified most of them. But once you learn the chanterelle, you will not mistake it. That's a real common mistake. Amanita seems to have a lot of controversy as far as its efficacy, as far as its psychedelic efficacy. I've eaten aminib muscaria four or five times. of muscarine but the muscarinic symptoms cause salivation and sweating um and i tripped with my friend on on amnidamascaria and uh and um i looked at him and he was foaming at

1:50:33 We are not friends anymore, unfortunately. And I said, let's go ahead and eat these. Back then in the 70s, I hitchhiked across country 13 times. and we get up onto a ridge and we thought this is a great view spot but we're waiting like an hour And we go, oh, my God, this is getting intense. And then I came to Winnebago's of no end. And so I did it over and over again.

1:54:30 I said, did I drop my camera? I go, whoa, I dropped my camera. And a whole bunch of people from the Winnebago community had lined up, holding their children in close proximity, watching this repetitive motion syndrome where I'm just constantly picking my camera. Whoa, I dropped my camera again. and the next day, even though they're massively outnumbered, they took off all their clothes,

1:56:38 on your own dude I have enough I have enough to worry about you know I made it back to my cabin So I would convulse some more. And then it would spin out of control. I went into a coma-like state. Is that what soma is? And he was covered with blood. And then he climbed back up on the bridge and he swung his feet and threw himself off the bridge so this

1:59:42 It's an empathico, right? What do you think? Yeah. And I teach these workshops on gourmet and medicinal mushrooms. And at one of these workshops, this very spiritual guy, he's very quiet, but very definitely, you know, walked his, it looked like the real deal. Now, I don't care if you're Muslim or Christian or Hindu. The idea of these mushrooms making you feel the spiritual universe, more spiritually connected, giving

2:02:08 So the connection between psilocybin and magic mushrooms Yeah, and why is that Brahman cows are sacred? But again, these are at times when fables and parables herrer before he died was working on um a book about psychedelic drugs specifically mushrooms I mean, maybe you can imagine it to be true, but how can you prove it to be true? And 14 months later, they still described those experiences as being significantly positive.

2:06:07 So this was a profound insight. ever going to see in our lifetime centers where you can go and a trained professional can guide you through something like this. This is something that has a tremendous momentum. Canada is leading the way. several days they're seeing a tremendous success and people breaking you know decades-long opioid Well, what gives me a lot of hope is that everything seems to be trending in a positive direction,

2:09:54 the next day when you look at those mushrooms, And so how many drugs can have such a dramatic impact that are non-addictive, that can break addictive cycles with other drugs? Rather than being judgmental, go up and put your arm around them, saying, hey, there's better benefits from this. eloquently express all these ideas a lot of people would know a whole lot less so thank you it's a

2:11:50 Thank you, Paul. Bye.