Joe Rogan Experience #1422 — Lex Fridman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Here we go! Slick outfit. Makes me feel like it focuses the mind. I like to work in a car or whatever. I don't know if it looks good. Did you get a breakaway tie? I'll have to talk to John Donahue to develop a tie. Well, listen, if someone grabs a hold of your collar, If someone gets deep on your collar. Well, the problem with that is it's a handle.

2:37 unless you're really good at, like – because it loosens. I'm like, let me grab a hold of that tie real quick. it'd be easy to grab your tie and choke you to death. and Secret Service guys. They wear breakaway ties. If you're a fucking, if you're a Secret Service guy, you're supposed to be protecting the president. I might be making this up right now.

4:19 for warner brothers was in 1999 and i wore exactly outfit. I wore a black suit with a white shirt and a black tie, and it looked dope. Low pro. You, when you felt vulnerable wearing a tie, decided not to wear a tie as opposed to learn how to defend yourself while wearing a tie. I had a pit bull and he bit my cat. loved people but everything that moved he was like locked in on he would spend his days in my yard

6:09 Oh, from behind. I wasn't thinking from the back. i think i just wore it for the cover almost ironically no i kind of like the way it looked There was a lot of chaos involved. That's legit. There's legit. There was a lot of stuff going on there. should do something to talk about it it's a weird gig man And with it has come increasingly of people that have said some pretty outrageous things that i had no idea they were going to say

9:20 known and also along the way becomes you know it becomes something weird like the head of the YouTube algorithm, Search and Discovery. Or look, this person said this, and it's not that problematic in our eyes, and how hard it is to do to achieve the goal of having, But they're not assholes. So what are you supposed to do as a Jack Dorsey, as a leader of that kind of platform?

12:42 to be a bunch of people that just want to shit stir and they want to dox people and they want so you got it then you have to set parameters wanted to call Caitlyn Jenner if you want to call Caitlyn Jenner Bruce on Why do I have such a hard time with that word? They think that they are a different thing, that there's women and women's issues, and then put the screenshot back up and then they banned it for life should she get banned no no she

15:50 because they're annoying or whatever yes that should be like we should do something to discourage Here's the, here's. They are all on Twitter. I bow hunt, which is even more bro-ish. look like a moron or it makes you look like an asshole. And he smoked pot when I was little. You find that about people on the left as much as you find that about people on the right.

19:56 is him right here this is his cd he's amazing he's a incredible human man but that kind of thinking She was a part of the Westboro Baptist Church. And now she's out. the grand universe plan she had enough open-mindedness to take into consideration They still exist. You said that they're 100% bad. And then there's people, you know, you could name. it's called deep learning these learning methodologies that are accepted you know

23:51 Yeah. Well, no, it's what are they worried about? Why do we feel it? kind of you know and i think we're now in a in a culture which is great you know eric weinstein value in having conversations with people that are on the fringes there's people that are bad I don't think she's on the fringe either. When you get these 90-second sound bites and these debates, you don't get a chance to know who someone is.

27:31 Sort of like as opposed to being a political thing That's what people are worried about, Do you really want socialism? of college he thinks it's insane and i agree with him he doesn't want people to be burdened in this And there's no significant attempt to change that. with names okay his his uh experience was first of all just he found a piece of paper that showed like a crime docket

30:51 And in the beginning, he was all gung-ho. So that hasn't been addressed it's all about i mean there's a million other things at home education everything and all those At home. And the second is to inspire the population. and try to make a little change. in terms of its capabilities and having an impact on the economy you don't think it's going to be

34:11 like the different tech companies So it touches me a little bit the wrong way. We're not as far along. The transformative this case i don't think will be the enemy it enemy. There could be other things that are a little bit sort of neighbors of artificial intelligence, you know traditionally called car guys or car gals right yeah so that there will be some job

36:47 It's really difficult to train people and so on. So he's getting up there. It's just such a petty thing to say that no one likes Really? Maybe it was some scientist character. Yeah, well, Eddie's always like that. intelligence, but do you think that it's possible that, you know, I think he's looking at a but I think the timeline is much, the time scale is more stretched out. So 20, 30 years, and it'll continue.

39:57 It'll be expanding their efforts slowly. but i'm like what did i just pay for and i'm not even i don't even know if i'm gonna use it Tesla cannot drive itself fully autonomously. No, it was We do that with manual-driven cars, too. It stays in the lane. And they're doing hundreds of thousands, I think. car emergency brakes and forces you to take over after right wow you can't run a stop sign under autopilot the car emergency brakes and forces

43:24 Not good enough. It's not good enough. It's not there yeah it's not there don't trust it it's not there it's Tell me, what's that experience like for you? whether that's in Neuralink, sort of getting to the core, now a couple of years, that's able to drive autonomously. So it's a system that learns from scratch, you find out when you start to think about most problems from first principles is that it's not

46:23 that can learn and then deploy the thing performs what's called inference. So it's already inference so it's already trained it's already It's what most gamers use to play video games, right? to use their TPUs or use NVIDIA's GPUs. Taking a break is important. Passion is more important than all of those things. It will be a friendly environment with free snacks.

50:10 It was hard to bring it out of him. So then we started drinking. No, I mean, the thing that's really interesting is he's gone, a father and can i have a family can i be a good person like it's very very very very difficult if And then establish everything and then sit back. I'm not sure why that is exactly. like that and then as he got older he you know thought he was insane yeah i didn't i've i can

53:37 I'm just surprised that a CEO is able to continue being that kind of puzzle solver. case when is it not the case i don't know who does who accomplishes as many things as that guy does They knew people that were engineers under him. They said it was horrible and mean and it just required so much. when he dies, people will always – you'll remember the greatness, right?

55:31 And that really, I don't know if it actually angers people or if people that already don't That's essential to do it in two years. But the thing – so I don't know. To me, the stock market is the most boring thing ever. But the beautiful thing is when you have people buy vaporware and you bring that vaporware to reality, that's the amazing thing. Just the type of people that are going to want to go.

58:08 Space is fake. That there's a community of people that take it extremely seriously. yeah yeah it's open free so how does that work um what do you have to do in order to take those courses? It's all made available online. I have courses on there. No, no. We just know the effects of it. Fuck it. so it's community supported yeah by other physicists but moving back from Flat Earth, can we go back to why you think we're not going to be colonizing Mars?

1:01:26 I had a whole bit about it. I like you. Life. It sucks here. there when custer was killed black elk yeah the man the guy yeah what do you call that he's a It's like, it's hard to imagine. was no culture anywhere on earth that was like the Native American culture in the 1600s, 1700s, 1800s. And I got so much shit by people saying, It's basically like the Genghis Khan,

1:06:05 They will say, hey, go out here. And one after another, families were wiped out that way and people were kidnapped and that lady that i have on the wall outside cynthia ann parker who I don't want to romanticize too much. Because I'm so weak, I'm so soft. They weren't very big people. Just send Francis Ngannou. It's just overwhelming. There's a lot of great, great jiu-jitsu players that just have those solid,

1:09:40 Yeah, I mean, but Cronus actually has some more creativity. Yeah. then yesterday i went to disneyland so yesterday i went way way off the diet and i had ice cream That stuff, it causes inflammation. was hurting yesterday like all those weird aches come right back well it's uh there's a the nice about two pounds of meat a day and that's what is it i don't know that's like uh 15 bucks so you've been doing

1:13:25 I just had a bunch of people say cauliflower sucks recently. No, sauce is like you're giving into your weakness. Salt, yeah. Yeah, I do, but I stay away from it. Yeah. Am I talking about the wrong thing? That doesn't sound like the words of a man who's going to stick to the carnivore diet. Those are fucking good. I have never eaten a Girl Scout cookie

1:15:41 And I was feeling like shit I don't think so. who make them. to having a cookie good to me anymore. What, like, I stay with the Russian dvorak. The thing I really like actually, I think that's the thing that people don't often talk about is the focus. So my life, I think a lot of people do this, is being able to focus for long periods of time. And the fasting helps me too.

1:17:57 But 24-hour fast, that's a careful weapon you have to play with, at least for me. I mean, when I am. I'm just sort of noticing it, which is problematic when you're in a working environment, especially sort of deliberating, discussing with other engineers how to solve a problem. Carnivore. Well, just in casual conversation, I'd find myself using fun insults more often.

1:20:21 Yeah. feelings about all that stuff but i ultimately feel like the direction it's moving in the reason it comes out and if you go too far out on that fucking pier it's it's gonna get you and this is And people will look probably at our time today and say, you know, people openly ate meat, meaning not, or like, I could see a few. Yeah, or you can get ethically raised food.

1:23:28 I mean, people have been eating animals from the beginning of time, literally. There's laws that prohibit them from exposing the horrors of these environments. I don't know. There wasn't already some mass Agriculture Where's McDonald's? large, gigantic metropolitan areas that aren't growing anything. You know, so I, and, um, the life of a scientist, right? The scientist, and especially now I've

1:27:09 Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Sean Carroll is brilliant. You're right. like to convert them. To me, most of my life has been spent behind a book or computer, Yeah, and the thing I love about him, Like, you do the same thing. he didn't take himself too seriously. on ideas ideas yeah i'm still thinking always you know because academics can be like really any other

1:30:37 And I hope I never lose that. Those things don't happen often enough to where I can have that conversation. made me so proud it's because it's in boston and i think it's like nerds and whatever sure Completely ignore Brian. I was like, this is Brian Cowan. That must have been. He must have been like, motherfucker. That's hilarious. I was a host one week and he was the, he was, you know, one of the stars of the show.

1:32:37 and he's uh i didn't know that yeah he's had a bunch of brilliant people on his podcast he's first of all, a good human being there, but also an intelligent human being. And Brian Cowell was researching it. and play the theme song I put up online. boston dynamics it'd be interesting to talk about i don't think there was a fake video that i sent Pull it up, Jamie.

1:35:03 or a hockey stick, rather. We're not that far off from this thing. Right. Come on, That's hilarious. It's manipulation. and they terrify us. And it, like, looking up at me with that hand, I felt like I was, like, it was magic. because the key thing that's a threat to humanity That's all learning process. guy, but StarCraft and Dota 2. So last year, these are, what do you call them, real-time strategy,

1:39:38 It's learning from scratch in a competitive environment. So thinking of you have two white belts, by that competitive process. specifically and singularly you're not going to develop the type of game that you need to become sort of different kind of of human beings like in the game of chess or in the game of go in the game of starcraft these this The second astounding thing about both chess and Go is it's able to create totally new ideas sort of i'm not good

1:43:28 That's a process from zero. giant wikipedia inside our brain of like common sense dumb logic that's very tough to build up that this yeah that's that's it seems to be an exceptionally always need to learn techniques. It's okay to get submitted. well, terrifying, So this robot is this dumb, it's like a Roomba. And that's exciting because now you can have hundreds of people

1:47:15 The big leaps. Yeah, Black Mirror. I talk to folks. That's one of the things people don't just like with me they kind of put to the side they don't want to think about military applications right i would be more worried you know, your basic friendly Wasn't there, there has been research done on making artificial insects that have little cameras inside of them

1:49:53 line the what sam harris is terrified of is it becoming sentient and it making its own decisions I think that requires creating the kind of intelligence and cognition and reasoning abilities that's really, really difficult. don't have direct ability to control the algorithm exactly like that one they don't have a way to because that problem I think we can work with.

1:52:41 And that's the worry for me is the distributed nature of dumb algorithms on every single phone, sort of controlling the behavior, adjusting the behavior, adjusting the learning journey of different individuals. And that's it. Yeah. They're saying something about things that you are an expert in. that this is nonsense, and if you're, especially if can get roped in you can get roped in real easy and that's a problem

1:56:05 opposed to your personal ideology? And who gets to make that distinction? And that is where The real problem is like Twitter is the place where people go to argue and talk about shit. Video service generated $15.1 billion in 2019. Like, YouTube paid for my McDonald's burgers yesterday. When I post something on Instagram, it goes to Facebook as well.

1:58:10 The majority of which were generated through advertising. Google Research, Google Brain, Google DeepMind are doing open-ended research. Let's make it work. Jack Dorsey, in terms of the CEOs we've interacted with, I think was one of the good guys. Oh, two Twitter? like, do you really want about YouTube best you know i love uh like i like i've recorded a podcast right i do like what first of all shout

2:01:16 just like with jiu-jitsu And when you have millions of people taking their own journey through that process, there's going to be brilliant people without a PhD or without ever having gone to college. but nobody really knows same with like nutrition science psychology economics anything that was one guy who was criticizing her and saying well she's not a clinical researcher that's one

2:03:22 Like, she's all about what do the results say what I think you're right. Yes. sort of all the which I think is amazing. and I thought he could beat Masvidal. Is going to, right? Animosity, yeah. People went nuts. like being recognized for the kind of fighter that he is now Yeah, that would be, I mean, yeah, Yeah. like the the fan the number of people that love fighting in russia is huge and i i know it seems

2:07:58 Yeah. Just epic. skinny like nerd and he just effortlessly like like destroys him really yeah with a trip like And I think, once again, he takes them down. Yes, for sure. Look, he covers his mouth. the Russian nationals are far more committed to drilling, far more committed to the technical is a little bit more of the modern age. Most people say, especially when I'm here, is basically if Khabib did science.

2:12:20 The confidence he has, the confidence that Conor has is just incredible. The Cowboy fight, his coaches were saying he's never looked better. And to see the contrast of those two cultures, I mean, he didn't in this fight with Cowboy at all. But they're ignoring Tony Ferguson in a lot of ways, in my eyes. He's lost one fight in X amount of years, and that was because he had a broken arm.

2:14:30 He doesn't get tired, man. He also has fantastic submissions and he catches him from everywhere. I mean he catches Yeah. and a great wrestler and a great scrambler and the thing about him that's so fucking terrifying Fuck no, not me, man. I mean, it's crazy. Who cares about the record? past like jose aldo or um eddie alvarez oh yeah the eddie alvarez fight was unbelievable like at

2:18:04 He's just, his life is so chaotic probably in the Joe Rogan podcast. won the Nobel Prize before every match, И должен ни единой долькой не отпуститься But it's The winning and losing, none of that matters. is the art, you should only think about the art To me, the most terrifying human being in the heavyweight division, the Russian tank I mentioned last time,

2:21:34 There he is. That's part of the quote. And that's not true that's the mma that's a that's part of the quote that's and that's not He feels a lot for them, but it's not the very thing that this poem gets at. Every Conor needs a Khabib. It's hard to say. Maybe there is skill and courage in mixed martial arts. I mean, results are what matters. Yeah. And a lot of it you're in

2:24:47 on this vehicle Darth Maul how intricate fucking scale of this place so that's one of them giant four four-legged robot things that's in star but the computer is coordinating probably minimal look at that look at that like you're in this thing you move through this room So I think there's some, like there's very minimal AI in this Don't you dare. for real soon

2:27:33 no I'll be here on Mars I mean, it's nice that we have access to the history books, Right, yeah. He just kind of really thought about it deeply. that it's just three, what's outside the simulation? the best of the Like why are you talking about this? Well, the thing is the simulation pushes you outside of the muck, the messiness of everyday details of science and makes you ask big questions about like the nature

2:31:45 We're already creating virtual worlds for ourselves That's the other way of because like what created us? a legit philosopher and so he's been fighting battles in the philosophy game like you asked the most amazing thing that nobody can explain, And it's born when there's a certain number, with that system and it can grow and all these behaviors grow like if you watch if people google

2:35:27 from simplicity complexity can emerge and that for like if you study this a little bit closer jesus so the yeah that to me the cellular automata reveals that the simulation is much easier to create than we might think. whether most of them are philosophical zombies, Yeah. is almost irrelevant the complexity of the existence and all of the various pushes and pulls that keep everything together, they're almost operating like some grand plan, whether they like it or not.

2:38:45 You can text people. Like, in terms of the way our culture works, you get so much done on these things. You can bank on them. Is it okay if I'm drinking all your waters terms of the way our culture works you get so much done on these It's weird. Conflict. you're kind of, even though you were thrust into politics, with all groups of people, with everything.

2:41:21 experience is really a gift because on the other end of that adversity, there's an opportunity for massive growth. I had to write it down. You're trying to build a her or a she, whatever it is. That's a long journey to create a companion that can form a deep friendship. like they can't hit each other they get close and it's your and what happens when they hit like

2:43:17 And I don't know how you can walk away from an air crash. in this book that I'm in the middle of with I'm actually towards the end of Oh, let's read the book. and then see the technology of the Industrial Revolution kind of propagate and be faced with that i don't know They want newer things. I'm an optimist in that sense. and expand it with access to a lot of information

2:47:19 Yeah, I think there could be other interfaces, I think. Yeah. you take all surgery except brain surgery, What do you got? Can I close it out with a poem? Let's do it. can I cause I know you probably gotta go yeah what do you got cause I've been of course No, a man does not drink by himself. We're going to raid. for three or four days. It can mean freezing at a park bench. It can mean jail. It can mean derision,

2:49:50 I want to take a picture of you That was awesome.