Joe Rogan Experience #1439 — Michael Osterholm Transcript

Transcript

0:00 All right. Here we go. And just off the bat, how serious is this? as are many of my colleagues, as soon as they release all of these social distances, these have right now on what limited data we have is say, this is going to be at least 10 to 15 times and watching the spread as it's unfolding, those numbers are going up astronomically. Three weeks ago, Italy was just living life just fine. Now they're literally in

3:01 And this was an email that came out yesterday from one of their physicians in He says that they're seeing an alarming number of cases in the 40-something age range. In fact, that's the primary risk factor for dying is being old and then having certain underlying health problems. We know that obesity is just like smoking in terms of its ability to really cause severe

5:29 we're talking about from the time you and I got exposed, and how soon do they get sick afterwards. So the chauffeur in the car where an individual was sick here. And this is where I think is such an important, and I said, why the timing is so This is a coronavirus winter. four days. So it of these every four days. So masks on, wearing gloves. Is that nonsense?

8:35 They did blood. They did stool. They did urine. And they found that at that very moment, when they obesity. Then right now, you don't want to be in large public spaces and trying to kids are not getting sick very often at all, which is one of the really good news features of this disease. an outbreak is because it's transmitted through the stool, fecal-oral. His mom and dad and the

11:06 If we close schools, they don't get paid if they have to stay home. Right here off the coast of California, you've got your cruise ship. Oh, absolutely. be. You know, we are No. fingers. And, you know, it's the kind of thing where we hear it and hear it, but we don't get that was going to happen, and yet we don't prepare. That's so foolish. I know, I agree.

14:04 All of them basically are made offshore of the United States and a 100% of them are generic. All of them basically are primary drugs are coming from China. No, no, no. What I mean is we're going to bring you around to take, you know, Actually, it's great for you. it's kind of like taking a cup of hot water and putting it into a bathtub of cold water.

16:48 It's a good thing to use for your skin and everything else. You couldn't do the tidal volume. We don't freeze our lungs. I'm giving you my best shot at it. It's getting warmer there every winter. I should say rumor, was that this was something from some sort of a biological weapons thing that was leaked, right? Because Wuhan is some area, a part of China, that they actually do work on

19:00 became a personal advisor to His Majesty King Hussein of Jordan before he died on this topic. I got really into it. I wrote a book that was published in 9-11 of 2000 called Living Today, with the genetics we have on these viruses and how we can do testing, we can almost date them, almost like carbon testing. and we talked to them about that very thing. And they said the real concern, the real concern is

21:05 The chronic wasting one really scares me because there's so many people that have a vested interest in dismissing it. something that could be released on private property And in Doug's area, there's somewhere near there that's like 50% infection rate. that were from those exposures 10 years before. But they had different strains. One of the challenges is we don't have a test unless you die,

24:24 or a 50-year-old or 60-year-olds even with this disease, then you got to start thinking what group at the University of Minnesota is working on is tests now that are almost like point of detection tests. When they're sanitizing medical equipment that they've used on mad cow patients or whether it's cows or humans with these prions, they've been able to do it three times.

26:04 They couldn't even sterilize it. We've had far too many examples, and Doug has shared that with you, then there's been a deer in Korea, a type of deer there, and one in the Scandinavian countries. And of course, if you're not a hunter, you wouldn't know this, but caribou, obviously, the herds are remarkable, Throughout a number of provinces. As our good friend Doug Duren has been doing all this work to try to alert people about it

28:47 But I think the tide is changing. You know, deer season typically is very concentrated in just a couple of weeks to a month in the fall. what they're doing in Doug's area is they're actively trying to eliminate a lot of deer and try see the strains that again were around 20 years ago are not the same ones today because as these bones. Right. That's what we're looking at. I mean, that's why it's called chronic wasting disease

31:27 Dot U-M-N dot E-D-U. We have a whole resource center just for the coronaviruses too. who suppose experts, what's this going to happen or not happen? You know, and let me just give you they wouldn't infect anybody else. And it took until June to bring that under control. In the Arabian Peninsula, we're not going to you know, the same kind of transmission we're seeing with this coronavirus where you're

34:38 can be stopped. This one's not. As I said at the top of the program, this is like trying to stop primarily the older population and those with underlying health problems. But as I mentioned We're going to tell people not to go into public. So that's what's going to happen. If you get enough people who get infected, ultimately, then it will slow down and stop transmission that way.

36:42 But again, and they say that because we didn't pick up all the when this virus got into you, it created what we call a cytokine storm, which is an antibody cargo I'll ever carry. You know, I got to make sure I don't lose it. And when that virus got wait. You know, I'm getting up there right now where it becomes to accept any and all that might help, but we don't really have any data that those substantially

40:06 No. How large is the group? What we can't tell people is it's all safe. Every time I hear people say the risk is low right now, it reminds me of what would happen health care. We need food. So a bunch of things people should do that's going to boost their immune system that we know of, right? That's, you nailed it. My son and daughter have a beautiful lake place up in northern Wisconsin.

42:45 Because it's not frozen right there where the spring is. Yeah, I love the sauna, but I haven't had any opportunity to jump into a lake right afterwards. That's the real feeling. Yes. Well, why is she telling people not to touch their faces? So keep doing the hand washing, but don't think that that's going to stop this disease. on the sides, that's not a problem if I'm breathing into the cloth right in front of my nose.

45:36 That's an apocalypse mask. So if we have one of those, that'll do something. All the preppers across the country. And a number of them died. So when one of those people get infected, a doctor or nurse working intensive care, me 5,000 of these and it would be there the next morning. Well, you know, I've served roles in the last five presidential administrations. I worked for two Republican governors, two Democratic governors. I do appreciate one, Independent Rassler. I worked for two when he was governor, Jesse.

49:10 All right. Do you read it? People forget that we don't have that capacity today to suddenly make lots of things. We don't build an aircraft carrier at the moment we think we're going to go to battle. Employees are at risk of running out of these critical drugs because they get them from China. And then when it went away, the interest weighed. You know what?

52:00 And so this is where I think, and that's what I tried to say in my book, was all about that. I just mentioned if we close schools, we are going to really hurt some people. I'm just trying to tell the facts and make sure people understand it. You know, it's like a forest fire, whatever. We set this up several weeks ago. to talk to an expert and luckily you were willing to sit down with us and and help us out well and

54:42 They're concerned. And I addressed them and gave them everything I knew about meningitis, what we're going to do about it, et cetera. Everybody in town was terribly sad, very emotional, but they all said, we knew it. 20,000 people we vaccinated in one weekend for this bacterial meningitis. to the value of vaccines, too. There's so many I do too. the vaccines themselves, but it's the prioritization of vaccines. I mean, you know,

57:54 it all to be a conspiracy. But then when they don't see it. It's a black and white photo. One kid whose body is just devastated by what looks like pebbles glued to his skin Diseases are terrifying. The human beings, for whatever reason, there's a percentage of us that lean towards conspiratorial coronaviruses, the title is SARS and MERS, a harbinger of things to come. I mean, we can use

1:00:55 Well, actually, would you do me a favor? Read the quote that goes with it. That's not it? Rudyard Kipling. This is exactly what we're talking about. And so you have people crowded so closely together that if you add in the bugs coming from these animals and then the potential for this kind of contact where it spreads quickly, So that's what it is a lot of it is wildlife?

1:03:56 There was a situation where there was all these chickens in a cage, 15 or 20 of them, okay, The ferrets could breathe it out and we could get infected. You know, bushmeat is still very important. And some of them are pretty big bats. You know, this could just as easily be a flu pandemic, the same thing like 1918. Link with virus unclear. Whoa. How dare you?

1:06:23 I'm a hypocrite. So, do we have a video of the market? I went light for you first. Let's see it. Rural area, from rural areas, yeah. Whoa, what's all that stuff? If we can't stop that, we surely can try. Those look like giant mollusks. Yeah. You know, back in the 1500s even, there was a major pandemic that occurred where Spanish cities I know they do the mist up the nose.

1:10:09 before, adults not so well. For us, the injection works best. And, you know, I'm happy to report Yeah, there's a higher dose vaccine now. So they'll actually do that for you. This one is waning now. We've had a bad flu season, a really bad one. You feel like you got hit by a Mack truck. You absolutely should see a doctor so you don't have these other complications. And what can a doctor do once you

1:12:42 Now, we were talking earlier about probiotics. But what I'm saying is, is it beneficial to people if they do take a probiotic after In other words, you get a short-term boost, but I'll tell you that the data we have doesn't show that they have a big boost and that they actually help you long-term or short-term, meaning that it makes any difference.

1:15:04 And so more and more institutions now actually are doing fecal transplants, which you never to people. I want to ask you about Lyme disease. What can someone do to sort of protect themselves? And I tell you that because it turns out that there is a focus in northern Wisconsin and east-central Minnesota where there's Lyme disease, there's another disease called anaplasmosis,

1:17:37 When you move deer, you move ticks. involved with the study that the Wisconsin Division of Health did and a colleague of mine, the late Jeff Davis, where up in northern Wisconsin, as deer would come into the check Well, guess, lo and behold, where all the Lyme disease and so forth started to show up, likely, that occurs where it sets up this trigger. And so they're sick. They actually have something.

1:19:51 And it turned out all four of these studies in Lyme disease, And so I think that that's an area that we just need a lot more work in. Yeah, it's like rheumatoid arthritis, a lot of things. That's why a lot of these people are dying right now is this over-vigorous immune response. and what kind of drugs can we use to reverse this immune system disorder.

1:22:06 But, again, more often than not, if he's been adequately treated, it's not that the bacteria is still growing in him like it might be for a lot of people. We don't know yet. We don't know. Minnesota, we had the classic, you know, pine forest, fire would wipe through. And with that, Brain worm. because the forest is changing. Could controlled burns eliminate a lot of them?

1:25:19 Because there's no deer out there. and he said it was really weird because there's these massive fires in the distance Yeah, you can't. And there you can't. There we have to find ways. That's where we really have Not enough, no, no. That's a lot of blood. It's a real hit on them. in your family has it. treatments and all these different things for it.

1:28:04 I mean, we can the kind of thing. This is where infectious diseases really need a renaissance. I mean, we can do a lot here. Oh, exactly. Yeah, it is. It's huge. What the rats aren't doing, the coyotes are taking over. That's okay. That's okay. That's not the best I've Yeah. Just like microbes, adaption. and you're particularly over age 50, 55, I'd say avoid big crowds if you can. And that's going to be really important.

1:30:31 We have right now questions about how do you make immunity to a coronavirus and what kind of vaccine do you have to have that brings in all the different parts of the immune system? Immune response is really destructive. And then you get the disease. It actually enhances the disease immune response. really study this to be sure it's safe. And as you said earlier, you know, we can surely make

1:32:14 talked about. And this is what Peter Hotez talks a lot about. You know, we got to finish the job Why don't we just take really bad people that are in jail and practice on them? You can't do it on 30 people. That's a good point. Thank you very much. I'd love to get a picture with you.