Joe Rogan Experience #1474 — Dr. Rhonda Patrick Transcript

Transcript

0:00 what were you saying? when I get nervous you know your eyes feel better. I'm sure it doesn't sound that odd. That's not certainly not embarrassing. And I think that as a public health, a public service, you know, health thing, this is one of the most important things that I think you can really focus and concentrate on and an actual thing that you could be proactive about during this weird time.

1:56 know. But what just, you know, doing some reading about like, why are people's immune systems so on like, you know, identical twins CMV. Did you know like between 50 to 80% of the US population has it, at least by the time they're Say it again. And the reason it got me interested is because I was like, almost 80%. antigen or all different types of, you know, ways that you can expose someone to bacteria

4:58 of your immune system, to become focused on that CMV. And so as you get older, your T cell population becomes more focused on fighting that virus But I just thought it was so damn interesting because we hear all these stories in the news where, you know, some people are asymptomatic. a main regulator of how people like what, how your immune, you know, what your immune response is,

6:48 And they'll find at any given point a person has like antibodies against 10 different viruses just randomly. So SARS-CoV-1, the virus that was responsible for the original SARS outbreak in 2002 or something, Right. And so there's been some studies by the CDC on SARS-CoV-2 where they found basically that people that are infected with SARS-CoV-2 also boost their antibodies against the common cold one. So, you know,

9:15 So now what is the speculation if there's any sort of uniform speculation as to why when you hear about prisons where a lot of these prisoners. But what would cause, other than something like that, Like what's going on? But then they went back a week later and 10 of those people had symptoms and three were you know, in the prisons and jails, I mean, they're in close quarters, and they're you got

12:18 That's a clinical trial that's now going on where they're trying to test. But I think that's also a really good... the cross immunity, right? Like, if there's, if there's antibodies that you're making against they're they're hoping that they've found some antibodies in llamas that they're hoping they're And the United States published an article this week in the journal Cell that highlights

14:56 uninfected individual to protect them from getting infected with the new coronavirus. you can then, I mean, Well, we don't, I don't know. I mean, how, so it's, you know, it's probably enough to, But there's other companies that have isolated them from humans that have been affected. is also working in the background. And part of that adaptive immune

18:25 They don't bind as tight or something. with toddlers. And some toddlers got really, really sick and a couple died. But what happens vaccines. So like people like giving the vaccine people's immune response, some people can have that antibody-dependent enhancement. It's such a strange virus. the region like that, you know, the virus uses to get into the cell. And so there's been two

21:45 So there's studies, there's been some large-scale genetic studies that have found that Asians, That is interesting. like a theory going around because that specific region, it's been shown in SARS-CoV-1 to cause But less than 1% of the population in China has that form. think that eventually, there's going to be therapeutics that are identified, you know, multiple ones maybe.

24:39 Yeah. Why is O positive better? And it's thought because the type A antibodies So that's, at least that was the mechanism And it's just anyways. So having lower levels may somehow even help protect against. For sure. It just seems like in the beginning, at least, they're trying to figure out what the correct treatment was for these people as they were just showing up in mass in the emergency rooms. And they didn't really know. And doctors, they varied in how they

28:43 I mean, same thing where it's like, you know, in New Orleans, I mean, same thing, where it's like, doesn't seem like it's going to be very good right Right, but it's hard to say, is that the cause of it? They've looked at patients that have died and their vitamin D levels. they all like have low vitamin D and it's like, okay, well, anyways, that's a correlation, but

31:08 So I think there's, all right, can we get into vitamin D? This is something that your body can generate naturally if you're exposed to the sun on a You're becoming even more deficient, you know. You know, basically it's made in the skin. it's not a problem. Well, this is the very reason why people in places like Scotland and England have such pale skin.

33:37 Severely. Wow. Whoa. in our office, in our cubicle. So the CDC, obviously, there's been studies showing that factors are playing a role, but there's something else unidentified. And I think it's vitamin D. I think that, you know, But just the statistics that you've already listed about vitamin D, from the sun. That is so logical. Because vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin, and it's been shown to be 50% less bioavailable.

37:40 I mean like because there's a lot of people that are deficient in vitamin D. Can I ask you this while we're off on a tangent? And everyone's like, well, you know, they're not in the sun as much, so they're not as healthy, You're categorizing them based on their gene. Over 50%, actually. So the tolerable upper intake has been set by the Nutrition Board and the Institute of Medicine to be 4,000 IUs a day.

41:10 It's not like anything to be hugely concerned about. And phosphorus is another thing vitamin D does increase the absorption of. It moves calcium out of the bloodstream and takes it to places where it's supposed to go, like the bones and the muscle. So I don't – vitamin K1 is really – it's found in dark leafy greens. No. It's for the lung function and the respiratory function.

44:49 because it enters through the same receptor. And it's been shown that, for example, if you give and they either increase it or decrease it. A lot of times with like hormones, you know, vitamins, And that like makes lung it makes all sorts of problems. sequestering it, preventing it from entering the cell. That's actually being explored as a potential

47:12 And it's like ACE2 is important for producing pro-inflammatory cytokines at the end of the day without getting into all the stuff, you know, specifics. I'm not hearing anything about methods, nutrition that boosts your immune system. what role does it play in prevention? Because that really the easiest thing right um i'm involved a friend of mine dr eric gordon he he's um put together so

49:48 But so, yeah, there are – I think there's like open-label trials are just kind of a start. protected. So it's basically whatever the standard of care is, and that's what is happening at the Hunterdon Hospital in New Jersey. get it to first responders. You know. I'm just taking 5,000 right now because that's like I could buy the 5,000. I was like, I didn't want to take two pills of the 2000. Well, that's me too. I got

51:58 that are related to vitamin D metabolism I mean, the things that are like. I've got two publications on it. And when you point out the number of people that are deficient that actually wind up having severe COVID-19 problems. I think it's a really good hypothesis. For a month? Even if it's three months, that's crazy. It's changing 5% of the human genome.

54:23 It's not just a vitamin, though. But I'm not even saying preventative. Yeah. So I think that in this case, And we kind of like my team and I just dove in and put together an article, released a podcast on it, a video where we just kind of covered everything. and is there a saturation point to like 90. So it's not much over that like baseline. Most people that aren't eating that

58:25 I think there's like a really nice graph on my website on the topic page that shows this. you can, I mean, so far, like the maximum I've seen measured is like 70 times that. Your blood Jamie, can you pull up foundmyfitness.com and there's a vitamin C topic page so that way I can answer that question better? But scroll back up to the main home. Okay.

1:00:21 Yeah. And 10 grams is 10,000 milligrams? I mean I do lots of announcements there. Right. it's one of the mechanisms by which at least it's thought that intravenous vitamin C kills cancer people's lymphocytes and stuff, so it's not how often would you take intravenous vitamin C? I, you know, it's something, because if you, And, you know, so, so, you know, the intravenous vitamin C, maybe there's like

1:04:04 at least in the hospitals in San Diego, it's been shown to help with like, for example, it's at least in the You know, it'll be interesting to see the data from those trials, whether or not there's going to be an effect, it's not known. But the fact that it you know? Yeah. The pharmacokinetic studies that I'm referring to, I mean, those are recent.

1:06:30 the plasma. Like you could never do that from oral. Like it's not the same at all. Before that you're increasing your plasma levels more. Yeah. meta analysis of them. They've shown that like, like you know two grams is better than one gram for for Yeah, emergency doesn't have nothing like that. And they did all these sub-analyses. It doesn't do shit to your plasma levels.

1:08:50 Like, if you want, you're trying to, like, oh, vitamin C supplementation doesn't do anything is not necessary. It's accurate in some respects. That's enough? It's doing all kinds of crazy things. like that, you know, so I wasn't going to say anything because her and I have gone in so many I thought that was really interesting. And elderly people are more, zinc deficiency is not really common in the U.S.

1:12:05 The RDA needs to be like almost three times as high for them. Or they can just supplement, which I know Although it was like 40% versus 28%. Quercetin is found in like apples, onions, buckwheat, teas, which is what I drink. Am I wrong about that? Hey, gray hairs. For gray hairs. One thing I forgot to ask you Does that have any effect on vitamin D? just makes you feel good does it yeah it's interesting i've been doing it i try i wanted to

1:16:15 Every day. That seems to me the sweet spot, you know, and I've been doing it every single day of before i mean it was just i was thinking like, if we didn't have this in the house And I've been doing, the cold bath, the cold shower, sorry, the cold shower. That is just, it is a game. Like I am so Something's happening. that were physically fit or physically active and plus the sauna or just physically active.

1:18:56 I don't remember. hill, the last hill. It's like a market difference. When I hit the hill, I'm like, wow, this is crazy. during it? So, yes. So here's the thing with that. Like at first I was like terrified to do that because I didn't want to ruin my Apple watch, Right. the whoop strap measures it really well and it'll give you like you could actually mark it down as

1:21:22 It'll even tell you, hey, you should go to bed. Since you've been getting up at six o'clock in the morning, you should go to Yeah. it was like some kind of crazy number two. When you look at your musculature, the stuff and then i was doing i guess what are they called leg presses yeah and i like injured and that's sending that pain down usually your butt

1:23:55 Yeah. there's other things you can do to strengthen that area and like what like well first of all Belt squat. or whatever it is but it's all being carried Only gorillas. These big giant And you're carrying all the weight on your hips, so it strengthens the legs without putting a load on the back, which is fantastic. So he said, well, listen, if something compressed it, something can decompress it.

1:26:28 Trust me. called the dexx and from that you hang from the waist you like strap your i have that outside as So when I get my home gym, I'm going to have to get all this stuff. and other exercises from the Teeter, but it's a great machine, and it's just really specifically good for back health, it's been like on pause but the whole reason i had one because it's on it like i'm like scared

1:28:51 Like, and now I'm. like i finally got a jump rope and it came in right when the beaches opened up but because i And bone density. I'm going to be 42 next month. So I need to, that's dialed in and I'm, And now it's like, you know. What should I do? So I can actually get work done. we're slowly getting to the to the point where we're going to have more and more where it's just

1:32:01 Right. and tell them all I mean, Hey, But I talked about the sauna. 2014 maybe? Wow. 2014 yeah because i was still PhD, I don't know, in psychology, but she had done it with a guy I interviewed on the podcast, Dr. Charles Raison, who is, he's the guy who showed that like a single hyperthermic yeah my wife had one of those before we had a sauna yeah so it's a little it's different

1:34:44 and they're getting they raise their core body temperature. I think it's going to be once a week. The same thing? So what is the difference? They're like directly heating your body, basically, without having to heat the outside air as much. Personally, I think there's a lot there's a lot stronger there's much And they call it. If I get it up to 50%, I feel like I'm burning.

1:37:54 I'm so accustomed to 180 that I used one in Vegas. It was like, OK, now we're cooking. I don't know what that formula is, but absolutely there's a formula. And it's right on a lake. which it's interesting. Anyways, they jump in the lake at. And so there, some people paid extra to like go to this event that, that was after it. So there Someone was – you had to pass this thing. Oh, so you were in a big wall tent.

1:41:33 there i know so so so only three people wore a towel me dan and this other american and so i'm in the sauna everyone's naked and then he the and and the guy who's my friend okay he's still So that was like my my first Finnish sauna experience where it was like. You're not staring at my junk. Why? demonstrate it so he had like one of the Britain girls.

1:43:38 I didn't want to see. packed my swims i was like yeah i'm gonna wear my swimsuit and sauna you know you can't tell people Show me what you're saying. toxins it's like you're talking mumbo jumbo talk most of the time i try not i'm trying not to judge Like literally like that's been shown. That's the antidepressant effect that I feel from the sauna that Charles Raison published and that Dr. Mason will hopefully carry on the torch.

1:46:37 derived neurotrophic factor, It's neurogenesis. like not being able to like adapt. And the sham control was like a green light like so people thought they Inflammation. But, yeah, depression is measured. There's so many amazing things that heat shock proteins do. these nematode worms that only live like 14 or 15 days. And after like a couple of days, they become paralyzed where they're like laying in their little petri dish plate on the E. coli food you're giving them.

1:51:34 And that usually – like animal studies show that they can stay elevated for like 48 hours after that. But heat shock proteins did increase. So hot baths are like the only really choice if you don't have a hot sauna, a home sauna. I mean, so it depends on how long you're staying So so so most of the time now I shower right after the sun. the norepinephrine that's been shown to be increased.

1:54:06 But the cold shock, you were asking me cold shock proteins. Minus 240 is where we went. Have you done those ice baths? Oh, I've done it. I've only done the cryo. the water's cold, that's when I love it. it, I was trying to impress him. Ice and baths. You do use the sauna though, right? Yeah. It's rough, yeah. heat shock proteins that are created in the sauna. Because the thing is, like you are getting this

1:58:09 And then they get in there, and then I look over at them 15 minutes in, and they're like, fucking A. I mean, it's like just from that alone, adding on the sauna, which mimics moderate physical activity that's been shown, absolutely mimics it. being sedentary. You get someone who's like, like my mom, who she's, she's sedentary, you know, she's, she's

2:00:07 That's been shown four to seven times a week, 40% lower all-cause mortality. Sauna, to me, there's so many benefits, but one of the big ones is that muscles feel better. Shame on me. And there was all, you know, like, and I was so happy when that human study came out. Because, for example, if I share one study, I'll share an epidemiological study. because I've read a bunch of, you know, think it's interesting, or two, because I've read a bunch of evidence surrounding this topic about all the other clinical evidence, all the genetic evidence, all the animal.

2:03:02 Like, you just can't. podcast, who read the comments and I go, do you just have to stop and think, okay, even if just Right. They're not happy with their own performance. All right. No, don't say that. Like, what am I doing? Look, I have conversations with good friends all the time and even on the podcast where I disagree with them. rocks off there because they're and i feel like now for a while during the pandemic when it started

2:07:10 happy birthday. my son's at an age where he's, Well, if it doesn't, I'm going to move to a place where it's I didn't even know that. They're fools. You'll find crabs. Singles. Paths. I didn't know. For LA or for? Chi Kung. Watch the sunrise or sunset. In all cases, accept where this is and then when comedy clubs are about to open up then i'll start writing again

2:10:34 we've got to be careful of these fucking politicians. Now I'm in the place where you, This strategy that you guys have, you're not adjusting and adapting. That's crazy. It's out of their system. people how people are affected by it and what goes wrong. Because there are so many variables. want to be right let's give me a full load of virus they somehow get people healthy people to

2:13:10 the influenza, you know, flu symptoms. people and they're they're they're doing right they're getting their respiratory droplets like Right. I'll be willing to do it. antibodies that can neutralize the virus and they're going to grow them and manufacture them That'll make things less scary. a while ago about how pre-symptomatic versus asymptomatic, after a week when they came back

2:17:04 like it does suck. And I know people are, I mean, the thing is like alsoing their freedom, you know, and like it, it does Doesn't it? far, the studies have They're shedding the virus. That's a giant factor in your immune system. Oh, sleep is huge. We didn't It's awful. And it's awful for so many this is not the horrible tragedy that we thought it was not it's not it's definitely not like i'll

2:19:49 There's been tons of studies. West Coast, because over here we do have study, because it makes sense. Look, and people are shittier over there. Maybe that's why they're shittier, you know more skin exposed. Someone might have done that study. I would like to see that study because it makes sense. I think all of those things play a role. with all these people stuck inside and stressed out you know all this the financial pressures

2:22:00 I think social distancing makes sense. But test people. Just for the fuck of it. And from what I understand, this is a vulnerable virus in terms of the temperature that it can survive in. I don't. I forgot the duration, but they were much less likely to come down with a common cold. So, you know, the sauna does seem to be associated with lower incidence of pneumonia, but it's thought to be because of immune perturbations.

2:25:55 Like humidity, like the higher, the more humid, the better that was acting basically able to, you're able to like filter out stuff. And the whole inside of my nose would be like stinging and everything. But it was a Hotez. No, you're breathing. nuts. Well, that guy's a savage. I did. I've done I was like literally going to get on a plane and go to Kauai

2:27:56 So he gets in over 200 degrees with a fucking airdyne bike with oven mitts on. staying in the ice bath as long as i could. You know, got to think I'm cool. But I was like, I started out the conversation. gonna create more life forms yeah i think i think uh gabby gabby uh laird's wife um she she has a But I had to, like, get on the floor because, like, I felt like my hair was going to fall out.

2:30:33 Oh, well, I mean, I think that you could just stay in for. That's what I was doing. And I would get out and I would go out to the mats out there and just collapse. I take liquid IV actually. Why? you know, you know, I don't, But that popcorn, it sure tastes good. It's like the number one choking. The thing about the sauna at 210 degrees, too, one of the things that was happening to me, I was just getting headaches.

2:32:59 The headaches, I think, is a sign that you've pushed it too hard. I mean, it hurts. I was like, I think I'm fucking myself up here. Sure. it's that birch you know what they're whipping it's from that plant it um yes it is used as a mental hygiene thing. And, and he comes back and he's like, you've got two cavities. do some reading research and see if I can find, you know, if there's any, you know, possibility

2:36:01 And these stories are going to connect. But so fluoride has been shown. So I started doing research on xylitol while I was looking for alternatives. It makes your breath smell worse. And pregnant women, like if they were like six months pregnant, the study started at six months, And so they're like they're chewing the xylitol gum had a positive effect on the child's oral microbiome.

2:38:13 I was pregnant. Periodontitis or gingivitis. I was like, is it the pregnancy? Like, I don't know what the x-ray is supposed to look like. So that is crazy. So, um, so I was like, and now I'm just like, it's all. So it's a. Oh, okay. L-theanine see I was looking for my own thing but I was out cuz that like helps calm me it's got a little bit of caffeine L-theanine and B vitamins. I fucking love it. I love it. I take it before I do kickboxing workouts

2:41:19 I was running like eight to 10 miles a day. Yeah, B12 shots. It's not going to get you high. Yeah. is from CBDMD No. It's really good. They don't have the concentration and isn't high. always told me that they were all sick all the time. So I looked into that because I was like, is that like an echinacea thing? GTs? And I'm like, this one tastes better.

2:45:11 It's in a dark bottle. love that i eat the shit out of that stuff i love it do you so i what's the brand i get i buy it Yeah. We were like you early on. Right. and start opening things up. But what I really wanted to talk to you, the reason why I wanted to bring you in here is this conversation that we just had night terrors and what does that mean well it's like when i when i'm stressed out particularly

2:48:16 And I'm like, hell no, I'm not going to take benzos. well jordan peterson just went through all this and literally had to go with benzos yes and went um, if someone else in the bed that's sharing the bed with you, like tries to stop you or help, think it's not very accurate but um duration is pretty accurate so so um what do you not think my son where he was on a nursing pill.

2:50:37 So Dan and I don't – we don't have a TV in our room, bedroom. Yeah, right. Can you tell me what it is? Because my father-in-law has apnea and like he there's a doctor Dr. Caropian he used to be out here There it is. Wow. Yes. Wow. So that's a huge thing. there's operations that they do to try to alleviate it. And they just cut out some of the tissue inside your mouth. And then they also cut out your.

2:54:02 adjust i remember i was on a plane once and there was this guy behind me, and he was kind of a heavy fellow. Yeah. So I showed him, he's like, fuck. And I go, yeah, dude, this is really bad. It's associated Like it's really bad. yeah. they're not comfortable for me. Yeah. Yeah. this dark little apartment and, you know, like it just wasn't really great for my circadian

2:56:23 It was like a huge thing. So if we go travel or go to my in-laws or something, But no, I don't wear glasses. Like I'm Googling everything, it's not, stuff and go to the park but it's hard uh with the shelter in place right now he's probably got And now that like, like, I think that's really important from bright light exposure is just, We were talking about popcorn.

2:59:23 Like when this is, this is when my sleep was being disrupted when my son was younger. Yeah. Literally. would wake up like i would be totally repeatable why is the lack of sleep causing there's so many studies published we did a video Nurses, like their doctors, the first responders. but you probably have to go. He's like, it's bad. I need to go to the hospital. So we went to the hospital. They're like, yeah,

3:02:48 So, you know, we called the first, I called the ambulance. Yeah. Yeah, a lot. You're always an awesome resource. And a website, FoundMyFitness. And FoundMyFitness