Joe Rogan Experience #1509 — Abigail Shrier Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Hello, Abigail. How are you? No? I interviewed a lot of them. Many of whom are amazing people. Because this is like the cover looks like a four-year-old. A reader wrote to me. And she went on hormones. And this is happening to parents all across the country, Now, I've heard there's an issue with some teenage girls who are on the spectrum who wind up getting sort of roped into this idea that that's what's wrong with them.

3:40 And they are one part of this phenomenon, but they're a big part. So the teenage girl part. So you're talking about teenage girls that are susceptible to influence? And this is a way to understand their pain that they're really feeling. There was all of a sudden this huge epidemic in America of teenage girls deciding they were trans with their friends after social media emerged and pushing for hormones and surgeries.

5:38 So it's a great point. But there are two other reasons I don't think that's right. demonic possession, witchcraft, anorexia bulimia, and convinces themselves there's a problem. Well, there's definitely an area of real concern as well with social media. If these girls were transitioning to boys and they were living great lives and their But these girls are not being helped by transition.

9:27 They drop out of school. I never understand that. But when you're going through this developmental cycle from 17, 18, 19, 20, there is a lot of chaos. There's a lot of hormonal chaos. Planned Parenthood, you sign a waiver, you decide you have gender dysphoria, you walk out that day with no therapy at all, Surgeons, some of them require a therapist note.

11:59 They think that. I, you know, if I'm, you know, I'm giving them what they what will seem to bring them comfort seems to bring them comfort. It's all connected. It's one of the many bad side effects of testosterone. I think in America, we have a weakness for anything that gets cloaked in civil rights. Like, I don't I don't think she's really gender dysphoric.

14:44 I'm not, I wasn't aware of these binders. So that's just an appearance thing. And then they start doing a lot of it. this in my book. I interviewed this young woman, Benji, who was going through a really hard time you should be. I'm so proud of you. I'm there for you. I'm your glitter family. And a lot of them She said it was embarrassing. to get involved in manly things, but his dad's like, come on, son, I want you to do it.

18:21 Like, teenage girls, they can convince themselves of lots of things because they're going through a hard time. Puberty is hard. Not having boys like talked about when in terms of social media like the comparison of each other So she had a chain on, like a thin chain. You think you're ugly. fuck what do i have to do right what how do i look like that why do i look like this i hate myself

20:12 Exactly. She came out with an audio book last week Right? Let me see what Lana Del Rey looks like. You know what I mean? No. Some of them. And because girls try to take on their friend's pain very naturally and meet their friends where Right. because you get reinforced by the What's Lauren Delbray look like? Do we need a new box? I don't know. That's just a guy, probably,

24:38 online. So for instance, I talked to one detransitioner. hold on. What are you talking about? Like, I just saw a star is born with Lady Gaga. She's not the the green room about the percentage of people that are really fucking stupid that are posting You're using the same font. You know, it comes off of an iPhone, just like him. And I think one of the things that makes it even worse is because somebody makes a mean comment to you.

27:41 Yeah. I mean, I have pretty thick skin, but I'm not designed for it. Like, what are you doing? Let them have their opinions. is on, whatever. It's fucking bad for them. right to social media. Yeah. And again, the coddling of the American mind is a fantastic And the problem- So they go on it and they feel great and they can't wait to tell their friends. It makes their period go away and it redistributes fat. So now these girls feel like,

31:08 It can be. We know that it is in this whole history. And then a lot of them would grow out of it and some of them wouldn't and they would become what Like you say, predominantly, it's boys who wanted to be girls. They were talking about it. Your hate speech. And they realized, like, this was just a part of their process and they're happy as a gay man and they didn't transition so that's

34:37 about young people. We're hijacking their development. You're deciding, okay, have you that will affect the rest of your life. I hope you're mentally capable of doing that. Why is that? organization, worldwide organization, changed to an informed consent model saying that people You can get it. Oh, my God. And I know that I need a chemical that I've never had in my body before.

38:04 Right. my problem. They don't have a mental health professional who says, oh, wait a second, your other problems. The last decade. We've seen it fly across the West. I mean, it's in Canada, UK, you know, Scandinavia. So I conducted almost 200 interviews. But the problem is if you ask, if you find out objective things about their lives, right? It's not a good one.

41:54 angst, teenage angst. I mean, they got past it. The problem is, yeah, you're right. Not everyone. And 2% of high school students, you're talking about 1.1 million teenage high school kids in America. gender surgeries for biological females quadrupled. So we know they are the biggest and fastest growing population. And the vast majority of them are teenage girls.

43:29 I mean, we know that, you know, I can give you a bunch of other statistics. writing it. Yeah. Some of it. So that had to kind of affirm your idea that this was a real problem i mean everywhere i looked it seemed Right. And she's on the internet. I mean, people, you're seeing it now with a lot of our society. They're like, is she right about this? Is this woman a bigot? Like, who are you? Who are you?

46:57 This has nothing to do with a normal transgender person's experience. medical opinion without getting fired that's not good yeah one this is dangerous but one of the They want to be left alone. you know, got uncomfortable. And he announces he's a woman, he's entitled. bathrooms i mean what do we need i mean how does that work it's a good question i mean you can't

50:25 They just have to say they identify as woman, which is crazy. And it's interesting that if you discuss this, you're a bigot. Well, what are we doing? I mean, that's also like if you're my size and you want to play basketball against LeBron James, you're fucked too. Different. She has more Olympic gold medals than Usain Bolt. I would love it if everybody just treated them like they're a woman and respected them with their new name or whatever they want to do.

53:37 became a woman for two, but i had this one conversation with this woman and she said that she was always a woman. Right. women get fucked over in this design. And because so few people are trans, this person can do this You should know that you're about to get on a bull. Yes. Imagine. is kind of ridiculous. They're so different. They have these underground social groups now.

57:28 And this is why they became trans-exclusionary radical feminists, because they felt like these biological males were entering into their spaces with that sort of male energy. Yeah. And it's new. I mean, you know, what they used to call transsexuals in prior eras, And I've seen people do that. I've seen people say things that they really believe and then get attacked and then adjust and say something that is more to appease the masses

59:23 Why don't you – what would happen if you did this? Yeah. You don't have to make a policy statement, okay? off your boobs. That's not human. We vary so wildly that I think for someone to look at a You know, everybody is open in discussing it. And whenever I talk to doctors who, you know, work around this He's a nice guy. the term biological that they don't like. Right.

1:02:43 Yeah. their kid. They were really scared. They didn't know. Like, they're very concerned. I mean, What about that? got released where they were saying, well, this is absolutely not true. Well, this is something But then if you're a parent, like how do you know whether your kid is in this contagion, as you put it, or your kid is actually trans? it's not something parents aren't going to know.

1:06:02 there's not, you know, been abused or mistrust or whatever, you know, are really significant interventions. Right. So not right. So not doing anything, not doing a major intervention is probably in many cases, Right. So I'm not an expert in psychology. I've had podcast hosts write to me and say, that you're talking about teenage girls, I mean, it's like, you know, I've used this example before, but like abortion.

1:10:06 Why can't we try to get them some help? Right. Right? Puberty, right? the one with, That was not, They should be allowed to break world records? I mean, nobody wants fights. And but again, the ones who are getting fucked over, biological women. They know that's not fair. Power lifting. That is nonsense. You're eliminating everyone. and we want them to do that.

1:14:22 because I know a lot of men that are freaks. women is so vast. I played tennis. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is why this problem with teenage girls got out of hand. who transitioned, went to high school, I mean, see if you can find that story. Right. This is women's rights that are disappearing. We're rolling them back, L-O-L. This is not fair. Yeah. Has it ever been enough of a pain in the ass that you were like, I made a mistake?

1:19:54 What's in this book is the truth. written it, somebody else would have. Because it's what's going on. It describes a real phenomenon. And their experience has nothing to do with, you know, what, you know, activists are going through. I got a call this week. need vetting processes now And she said to me, I can't believe I get – my daughter started down this road and I can't believe I get the benefit because of other parents who went through this, who were brave enough to talk.

1:22:25 really the only way these people that are going through this with their children are ever going there are a bunch of really great books, they feel unhappy. And now there are other, you know, they know several other kids who committed that. I was neurotic. I was high anxiety. Maybe I would have done that. I didn't, nobody told me People, they're constantly looking for motivation and self-help people and books, trying to

1:25:30 This is a mandated part of the curriculum you can't opt out of. What are they saying? You might be nonbinary. And these options leap to mind. Do the parents get to see what's being taught to them and discuss it with them? allowed to opt out of. It's part of the anti-bullying curriculum. You think of activism. Like, what are we doing to children? But they're taught that alongside things that are factual, that are biological. that you could ever have a boy's brain in a girl's body. I mean, it doesn't make sense, right?

1:29:51 that somehow an XX chromosome to brain got stuck into his head is kind of silly right it's sort of Like, oh, you have a cavity. it's just people explode and they get so angry about it. And not in particular, let's not pretend that that six, five gentleman who's 50 is the same identify before you run a race. It's just about bodies. It is. And it's real clear that they're very different, which is why we have men's divisions and women's divisions. What is it like

1:32:32 I didn't focus on the boys because with the girls it's clear. has to be done in that area. And the problem is, it's hard to do it, right? Lisa Littman, And she's already had her study undermined because a bunch of people, trans activists on social media, said, everyone come and validate the study, essentially. and more about gender dysphoria and also this population of teenage girls. And it's

1:34:45 it's so strange that you, you're looking at, when you're talking about someone who transitions, Who's just a man. Because their line is that detransitioners don't exist or they're so marginal you shouldn't even discuss it. Exactly. Except that when a scientist in good faith tries And I guess they would point to someone who's anti-trans would point to that website and

1:36:48 Right. And also differentiate. People have, we know that there are different causes of Now, when you present, have you ever presented this discussion to someone who opposes you and how or this argument to someone who opposes you? And some of these people might, you know, come to harm because of that. They have this agenda. I mean, this thing is all over the place.

1:39:30 I thought the whole point of the surgery was to help this woman become who she really is, a man. I think in part because of social media and part because of the gender ideology in the That's what they call it. But that was her argument was that she was completely woman, all woman before that. very confusing and then people say why do you even care like why is this something that you're

1:42:05 these kids like prophets it's like the moment they say they're trans it's like oh everyone subject why is everyone so scared and well it's because of social media it's because of these I don't support, you know, their mobbing. Right. This is my first book. about this. And I hope people listen to this with an open mind and just listen to it. And this

1:45:10 Yeah, that's exactly right.