Joe Rogan Experience #1565 — Gary Laderman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. you do? Well, for work. Yeah, I teach at Emory University. So I'm a professor. I've been there One of my students told me I should do it before I came in here. And it's become a bit of a problem lately. Yeah. in our lives, things that religion often can do. with a lot of these dancing naked figures that look Well, I've been interested in the topic of drugs for a while,

5:43 There's a lot of people that are in the nuns that don't have any experience with psychedelics. There's a lot of people that are in the nuns Yeah. I feel like for a lot of these people that don't have psychedelic experiences that Yeah. But, you know, as we're saying, it's all about spirituality and those therapeutic benefits can't here and georgia too yeah all these places the whole world needs it well they need the option

9:31 I mean. That's why I feel I'm on to something. And as you're saying, and I believe it too, terms of our religious lives. are made in people's lives. open up someone's brain while they're in the middle of a near-death experience know, I teach a death and dying course as well. And so near death experiences are, are, are pretty to walk on water. But again, there are, like with the monk or people who meditate, all kinds of important, well, set and setting, thinking about what is the context in which this is taking place.

15:43 I mean, I'm at that stage of my career. I'm convinced about, It's funny because that's I mean, that's a heavy responsibility, I would imagine, too, because you're introducing to these kids this these ideas that have a really the potential for a very profound impact on the rest of their life. You know, what they think is religion is not the only game in town.

18:35 But for myself, I'm very gratified in the work that I do, if you could call it work. and i think that the best way to look at religion is it's not the whole thing you should but you Have you ever read Russian to English? Right. across obviously there's some awful shit in the bible in particular and many religions in terms of Right. So, you know, the act of interpretation is very much obviously a part of the study of religion and looking at how religions change and transform.

23:14 That's interesting. and a team of writers have carefully constructed but he's given us some wonderful distractions but it's not that qualities that don't have to do with the Bible it's bizarre values you know yeah it's it's bizarre of compliance and... Compliance one aspect. from someone who's involved in distributing popular culture because there's so little thought put into the actual impact of what it is and so much thought putting into just what pops.

27:56 topic and and made those connections so um again you know the action isn't taking place in the See if you can find that. that that was really what the Bible was about, Oh. Yeah. thriving underground. So I think we're going to see that underground, these subcultures really After Hoffman had synthesized LSD and when basically all of the Schedule I compounds

31:51 By Errol Morris. This is going to help people with their depression and, you know, all of that and um and again what we don't know uh although we're beginning And then in the middle of his research, writing the book, he started finding all these problems was on parole, they would let him go because the CIA was encouraging his use of LSD, Right. And they succeeded, right? Yeah.

35:00 And they changed the idea of what a hippie was. commit murder and tell them that they were freeing people and yeah well no no doubt I mean wild times yeah And then they would have sex and they would watch them and observe them. Bizarre. Well, that's how people are being able to get access to some of that information. Right. Right. convincing yeah and when you're helping you know war veterans with ptsd you know i mean i mean come

38:21 a part of our resources in terms of where to go. But the next day I couldn't read. I think I saw that your tour was called sacred clown yeah so i'm you know sacred is I would have called it Heyoka, but it seems like that would have caused more problems than... after the pandemic you really need to make fun of shit. Absolutely. Because people are more on edge.

41:09 Right, right, right. Yeah. It's almost like it's all been – I mean it hasn't all been planned out. not the problem he's he's just a problem right the problem is human beings right and the problem is I think we are too. I believe in the young people. Yeah, I, look where we're going. I think we're heading in that direction. I think I know they've meant so much to me and my friends. Why why don't why don't I see this?

44:15 And, you know, that's, again, partly to bring it back to religion has to do with the conflicts around the church and Christianity, especially Democrats. So it all becomes self-focused, you know, we're all just about self-promotion and self-identity becomes the main force in our lives, I think, for too many people. There's a religious culture at work.

46:48 Right. people that they live near and they're surrounded by. And I think we're missing that. There's so And we were very supportive of each other and embracing, physically embracing. And that's part of the modern world, too, that community feeling. We're going to turn to that next week. Well, community. Yeah, well, that's something you can find Yeah. Well, I like that hand in a glove perfectly. It's amazing. Yeah.

50:42 just in terms of the music that you listen to day to day, if you can identify the theme of death. the drugs class um and it's great for students to to be able to see that as data what do you open Sometimes I get that. But, oh, man, there's just a lot of things that can be played across different genres. Yeah, I teach American religious history, It's like the most common.

53:38 if not thousands of years. And then all of a sudden it was gone. And so this ghost dance of that movement and that experience but um yeah, the music and those ceremonies are incredible. it's something that disconnects people from their past They're getting back at us with the casinos. No, it is. It is. It's bizarre that they're getting wealthy off of this weird vice.

56:16 too that's going to be you know where you're going to be seeing some some kinds of activities that But it wasn't until I was in my 20s was overbearing but it's hard to say it was destructive. Well, it was definitely destructive in terms of their financial stability may be an addiction too in some ways. I think so, yeah. For some people, yeah. Well,

58:42 and it's, be some way that you could like that goddamn phone is with you 24 7 no doubt yeah well it becomes all Or anything. is exploring the patterns themselves? Like we, we have these weird sort of um You're going to starve to death. But psychedelics sort of illuminates that for you. Well, you don't see it until the psychedelics Right. And for people who don't know what that means, if you only use a mac that's uh how you reboot a windows computer when it

1:03:41 You know, fucking relax, buddy. And the next thing you know, you fall right back into the traps that you were avoiding. is that how you would describe it yeah i mean in a way yeah the the for lack of a better term Yeah. Yeah, in sexuality. It's not you. Yeah, it's a strange whole organization, you know, and logic, the higher education. What other professions?

1:07:16 I mean, you know, there are arguments that after some faculty get tenure, they shut down or they really aren't doing as much research anymore and there isn't that drive. But again, it's all the papers you include pharmaceuticals and prescription psychoactive drugs as a part of the drugs You put faith in this little magic pill that is effective and can bring you to a better place.

1:10:26 Or bullshit I should say. Most people, if you give them 100% job security, they're going to get fat. And there are certainly a number of scholars who are like that. I think that's exactly right. Again, I'm very fortunate, especially being at Emory. So it's a different kind of professional life that I've been really fortunate. And it wasn't planned. You know, I was a fuck up. And as I write about in this new book, you know, Don't Think About Death, which is a memoir on mortality. I was directionless and just fucking around at high school

1:12:37 Nobody, no. Right. Funny, yeah. was uh i was on a different path and luckily came around yeah for sure so what what led you So I moved from usually I was sitting in the back of the room to, you know, the front as I became a junior and senior in college. this commotion in our house, the small San Fernando Valley house, three bedrooms and one bath. It's like an eight or nine.

1:16:48 I mean. Yeah. Death is just integrated and a part of life. Right. Again, traditional religion has been the primary resource, And he was saying that he thinks that when it's over, there's nothing. and I think he's brilliant I think anybody who says, I know what this is all about i think anybody who says i know what this is all about when you die it's blank it's dark and that's it you shut off and it's over i'm like

1:20:56 Evaporate them. If you're willing to entertain my very broad understanding of religion and religious life, then I would say, yeah. and they're all interconnected Um, so, you know, I'm, um, I'm more anthropological than theological is one, one way you might Or something like that. can I zoom you in again it's a word that we have invented to label a lot of different kinds of behaviors.

1:24:00 There was a guy that we've made fun of a bunch on the show who was a pastor to a lot of famous people. This is what I was saying. There's a reason why monks dress in these very modest clothes that cover everything. kind of pursuing the trap goes wrong it's a trap because if you achieve like what do you what if People like Billy Sunday or others that the religious leader becomes a celebrity and those lines get blurred.

1:26:58 Your life must be heaven. Brilliant. It's madness. to, whatever structure that you cling to, Buddha, whatever it is. Oh God, Right. they don't survive. none of them survive yeah yeah rob low did though rob low got famous really I imagine. Okay, well. I mean, that's brutal. Who do we look for to put our faith in? And that's there too is a pretty common universal

1:30:59 Like you got to understand how to avoid it. go after but uh attract celebrities like there's something to that weird sort of parasitic genre definitely and there's something that people do when they convince other people that they have So I think a person who's involved in those three weird drugs, You're pretending to be pious. Well, I tell people I like getting paranoid from pot.

1:34:00 That fear comes with a lesson. You relax and you can appreciate things in a different way. Here's another religion, right? The religion of materialism. Right. Those are beautiful and engineered, and they come from Germany, I want to be like that. And that's highlighted by social media as well, right? media just lose themselves. Especially young kids.

1:37:51 materialism, social media, Yuval Noah Harari. So in terms of what we have to, our trials and tribulations, understand its surrounding in some way. and obviously lots of serious problems but i mean we're getting close to 300,000 dead. months in? in terms of going off social responses in the face of this kind of event. i'm gonna not think about social media and i'm gonna be happy that i can just go to in and out

1:42:50 the only thing they know and yes how do you break people out of that very insular understanding of She gets mad and she starts screaming. that can turn out but yeah i mean it's talk to them and then let them blow off steam but that's Oh, my God. know how to deal with our own struggles or difficulties. Yes. So it's so hard to do and so fucking exhausting,

1:45:49 pieced it together in a way that works for me. And I think that whether it's yoga or even mental I've got to sort of go back to the books and try to learn as much as i can on on whatever topic we're talking about but when they're playing at this incredible high-level world championship caliber, their brains are flying. That's amazing. When you're thinking.

1:48:14 If I do that, this happens. is like sometimes at the end of the day i'm fucking exhausted i'm like i haven't done anything over the last 10 years would have gotten increasingly more minefield like definitely And if you aren't able to deal with that, you shouldn't be in the class. that had a lot to, you know, to do with a feeling of, um, I'm not, uh, fully, um, prepared or trained

1:51:19 Yeah, it's terrifying. It's crazy. their ability to feed themselves. Yeah. No, I mean, this is unprecedented for so many people where they find the strength, you know, to carry on and deal with it is not so easy. So it's carving out this intellectual space of what is the history of suicide? experiences and feelings out of the class. That doesn't sound silly at all. No, it's, it's hard to do, obviously. Um, and, and, and it's, they do creep in and find expression, but still it's with these topics,

1:55:02 What was the fear of not discussing this I think I've grown more comfortable with it, mostly as an important element of the class. And I try to provoke them as much as I can to get them to really think outside the box, I mean, I think just the hesitancy from before you know, when I really went in to the class with that topic, I felt, um, like I was able to really

1:58:42 what does Christianity say about suicide? you have to be very sensitive to uh the feelings of the people in your class your students like But it's data. Or the varieties, whether we're talking about polygamy or orgies or whatever. Homosexuality seems to be way less taboo now When I was a kid, it was, I mean, you were a kid the same time I was a kid.

2:02:02 And then we moved from there to Gainesville, Florida were getting married and he was mad here's this grown man, it was normal to me. Yeah. it's a broad gender. It's a broad category. Absolutely. But in America, especially when you start, when you move outside of, you know, the traditional man and woman having sex in the missionary position. I mean, it is certainly the ideal for many, but sexuality in America today is fast and furious.

2:04:21 They're perverted. Well. Um, Um, Linda Loveless and Harry Reams and their story is, again, a morality tale. And became very successful as a realtor, right? for people that don't know. to uh a movie projector for the most part it's a very rare thing to have in your home so for people Yeah. I'm sure that's true. deep throat nothing else could possibly explain its success wow what was the person who made it, made was to rename the movie Deep Throat. Nothing else could possibly explain its success.

2:08:41 as being something that was awful that you should hide. It's everywhere. It's not taboo like it once was. But if you go to YouPorn, porn like a lot of it's stepmom you can teach about it. I mean, billions of dollars. is like less than one percent right it's very very rarely discussed if not dismissed as a There we go. Every day. In California. I want the dad to be pulling into the driveway when you climax that's that's what everybody wants they want naughtiness yes but that's um

2:12:53 Do you discuss tantric? you know, the Oneida community. The community did fall apart. There's a documentary apparently. Getting branded or something. Well, I mean, most sex cults are. is I know people I think it's the same topic I'll look it up. Right. Sex trafficking. Yeah, well, I'll see about putting it on the syllabus. yeah yeah i've seen combined sexuality and religion.

2:16:56 None. Well, at least religion has figured out a way to achieve tax-exempt status and a long, Supposedly. It's no longer. It was completely full of Well, they're still there. Yeah. Okay, yes. Yeah. Right. is a lot of wives. Very rarely is one woman who gets the pleasure of 10 husbands right right right there Polyandry, the form of polygamy So. Go to that photo.

2:21:14 Right. Where is she? One of those pictures. Yeah. we brought up here. Not yet. don't think about death a memoir on mortality um you can look me up there'll be other things Okay. Well, It was really fun. Bye. Thank you.