Joe Rogan Experience #1593 — Dr. Carl Hart Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! i i saw people like working a lot of jobs but now i mean what i what i saw when i was downtown Never like this, though. the real reason that's most of those folks are out there they really need care that's it and then About five, six years, man. Some people don't like them, but I really, the space you created, thank you.

2:14 What's this person have to say? So it's so nice to see Louis C.K. coming back, narratives right and if Louis wasn't talking you know all Louis did was like release a statement I mean, but even that's hard to like cancel somebody. Harvey Weinstein are held accountable but it's it's bad that people get scared and then it's now huh yeah between Switzerland and New York it's just that we have to do a better job of

5:54 support trump for example um they're all not racist of course and this sort of thing but i don't understand how people can support a guy who's so mean spirited and just uh previous administration as far as engaging with terrorists they've shut down isis in like less Yeah. He's an eloquent speaker. Yeah. They felt like politicians were all full of shit.

8:43 when has the system been for black america you You don't isolate yourself and then isolate other people it's like i care more about those people than he does and that's the shit that just blows my mind yeah it's today i said let's get depressed and i watched a bunch of it i i had And they're sending them into the battle. him so he's done i mean he's already he's done enough for them they're they're happy with what

12:55 that stormed capitol hill like if you see like when they get arrested and you find out who they Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, I think most of us are simple people. an asshole too do you think do you think that the majority of these people were they should face the criminal justice system should get trump yep absolutely but them and until we do they're going to continue to do that bullshit when they know that is bullshit

16:43 I mean, I'm telling you. Yeah, his dad helped kill Kennedy or something, he said. and there's compromises that you make and a lot of weirdness. manipulative but and i think their position requires that they be more honest and until we some of that i will cbd pineapple jalapeno drink no i think i think a lot of these people that are i mean i look i'm a big

19:42 they don't they don't know what that is they don't know what these things. They don't know what that is. So psilocybin. people's plight. What is it? That's what it's called. The same can happen with heroin. the range of experiences that human beings can have absolutely i'm a proponent yeah i'm like You know what you're talking about. and so i agree with you but i also understand that it has a lot to do with context like where

23:49 sudden have a grown-up right and so if people are responsible and grown-ups and empathetic It's pretty good, right? But Neil had a joke that said, like, you never hear anybody talking about, like, going to war after using cocaine or something like that. I think there's a trend right now with people that are very ambitious to take amphetamines. Look, this guy went to school.

26:23 Like mushrooms or LSD or even mdma i feel you um PCP has the same effects as ketamine? that's bullshit. his second toe on his foot. It's a dangerous endeavor, as is BMX riding, as is fucking gymnastics, man. People are allowed to do that. But it's not legal to because why is it legal to ride bulls but it's Are you serious? hide in the attic and i saw him like wither away stopped eating shrunk

30:37 And it was hard to get. You and I, we share this belief, by the way, this view. I was an athlete. and just seeing how I was misled and manipulated and lied to and now that i use good evening with you and your significant other you know and um um uh all of these sort of popular masses in the late 1800s and coca-cola this guy john pendleton i think his name was. He put it in Coca-Cola. Well, this product, a Coca-Wine.

34:26 Interesting. Various cities banned So what he did was tuck the alcohol out, largely because of its association with black people using the drug. Byrd they was talking about didn't see the movie oh it was a great start it was He was a fireman. cocaine in hollywood are you know people using people seedy people people that have no compassion I'm plenty confident.

38:20 of a lesson. you just want to be euphoric and just enjoy your significant other. But I would just say broaden your repertoire. yeah but you know um two things here um we got the technology to put on the streets where people can just submit small samples of their drug 10 milligrams which because i have met people all around the world some politicians and so forth and got high with

41:36 oh my god i kept hammering that button and i was in heaven yeah i mean my knee was fucked up and it It was amazing. Now they have this new product, but really it's not a new product. But codeine is a lot less potent than morphine, meaning that you need to have more of it to have the effect. Probably something like promethazine. It made me feel so relaxed.

44:09 Non-steroidal anti-inflammatories are bad for your gut. And I remember just like my bed was just like giving me a hug. heard of those but antihistamines were the antipsychotic medications were made originally from like uh modifying and There's an association problem. and say, we're not going to arrest you for anything. Yeah. and if you see someone who's out there hey i'm gonna go do coke you want to do coke like

48:08 Spain never banned drugs, right? It should be legal because even with decriminalization, the thing that I worry about with drugs more than anything is the contaminants that people can put in the drugs. those problems went away the quality control issues they all went away and so that's where Yeah, well... traveling and so forth you know they want you to go through customs and so forth so i wear these

51:08 But yeah, so perception. Well, I know many people that have had problems with opiates, particularly pills. what it was i believe it was vicodins or percocets i don't remember which one but i remember taking took him away from him and then he went through withdrawal and he he was okay after that but he it lasted for about 12 hours really and um and but um my dependence was not that deep it was only

54:35 He'll get back to his life without having these disruptions abruptly discontinue them and so people know this withdrawal is not a big deal to deal with I think that's an honest statement. I don't want to have track marks or anything. is that heroin going who's selling it how's it getting out of there where is it how's it getting market market. I don't know if you know ASAP, the ASAP group, the ASAP mob folks, ASAP Rocky.

59:08 He had promethazine, which is an antihistamine, alcohol, benzodiazepine, a number of things in his system. And what they told her was that the son died from an opioid cocaine-related death. a good time. And the fentanyl level in his system was also really low. So this poor guy probably didn't die um i'm calling him a kid he i'm a kid but he's a 30 some years old um had a history of using these drugs. So he would have definitely had tolerance to both opioids and

1:02:21 And then they don't have to do their job anymore. Do you deny that? Do you think that it's a side effect of life problems? West Virginia, Ohio, some parts of Michigan. all the rest of these other problems that they have but opioids are an easy sort of scapegoat It's more of a life crisis. Opioids are being scapegoated here. can get their child a safe supply of drug first that's

1:07:29 A tainted drug situation. other than these kind of conversations and putting these conversations out in the public, They like it. it's like come on you're a smart guy you know better than that but the same thing with steph How often are you using drugs? I don't do caffeine and I don't do alcohol you know those I mean, I'm chilled. You don't think of someone becoming more compassionate,

1:11:40 one of them was buffalo bill because he had this crazy mustache the other one was water dog and he was this dude in connecticut and he was a top flight professional pool player stool like this just sit like motionless like his lids would be heavy and his arms would be like This motherfucker can't miss. forget that this guy would do heroin and just couldn't fucking miss yeah and their thought was that he was

1:14:25 One of the things that I love to do is the day after doing heroin Just so I know in my head. Right. And in our hands, it's not funny. in society what we do what the conversation we can have in our society is oh yeah that comic he was And I don't know this guy personally, and I apologize. I think, well, I don't know John well. Yeah. Yeah. I think that maybe something happened in the poor guy's life.

1:20:04 I'm just joking. Let's think about it because he's 53 and he was probably doing a lot of other shit Or at least they say they can't drink. all so do you think that's just a common cultural cultural narrative that you know there's people yes yeah alcohol if you just go cold turkey yes your body why is that what is what's the process suppresses these other these neurons in the brain and now if you abruptly discontinue alcohol use now the neurons fire wide wildly and and and and so um

1:24:10 all of a sudden and then he had all these people who hated him and loved him and so i understand His body didn't react very well. I don't know what the, I mean, I'm assuming there was some sort of a negative reaction. that's we have to ask that question um um i mean jordan seemed to be productive in all the rest of those things. So it suppresses your anxiety?

1:26:21 Absolutely, yeah. you know, you and I have talked about this in the past about Percocets and Vicodin. thing you understand just like with alcohol, these drugs are capable of producing dependence such that you might go through a withdrawal. they hear about that with pills yeah so you get with heroin and all of these, you get constipated, right? I hear about that with pills. Yeah. So you get heroin and all of these opioids,

1:29:30 for a long period of time, ever hear tremendous amount of diarrhea yeah so. So that's what happens. And Yeah. don't necessarily have a good understanding of the physical response to the body, to these opiates. hear a person like you educated intelligent good-looking guy saying nice things yeah well no moralism here right all i care about is that you're a good person and that you're safe that's

1:33:21 because there are a number of constituencies who are benefiting from this problem and they have to and they they're benefiting because um they think that it is I think a lot of us have played a role here. idiot yep whoa yep yeah what what's your thoughts on that i don't think he knows anything about drugs And I'm, you know, they, again, you know, I'm trying to be a better person.

1:36:59 definitely go on twitter afterwards and see all the shit that people are saying about you because But you need also some productive things to distract yourself with. your life let's think about this I. Just like you're saying. These people are at a low point and they're having problems. something's very wrong there very wrong it's exploitation yeah it is exploitation that's

1:38:46 That's crazy that, well, it doesn't exist anymore, right? You know how these things work. Because, you know, if you don't know, I mean, I would like to be funny, but I know I'm not a comedian. in terms of, uh, like I'm producing and he's the consumer. to make sure he was good yeah and and i was just like can you shut the fuck up please yeah okay i've never done heroin other than the the drip at the surgery center but uh i'll do a little

1:43:36 It's very unfortunate, man, because I have to be paranoid about who's around me. I don't I haven't felt it as a problem, you know, so. that means that i can live my life however i see fit as long as i don't stop others from doing the same. And I can pursue happiness as I see fit. risk these things just like other people who reminded the country about its promise life

1:46:53 bothering me about this issue bring it on that's a very it's very confident and it's very admirable for us who are privileged and we can be in the closet when other people can't because they've been identified or whatever. society that we do make these distinctions between different types of drugs that are acceptable and Yeah, and one of the conversations that we had

1:50:11 Yeah, you might have some paranoia and that shit might last for a day or two, you know. You know, it's a real bitch move, you know? It's all of the normal social contracts are abandoned. and communicating in a very insulting way oftentimes i know i know and um you know Well, I hope. He's from my generation. supported him my wife and i went out just you know do you try and support people and we stood up front always and he just attacked us you know uh really

1:55:06 just really mean and um uh so i was i wanted to have a conversation with him like yo what the And the crowd was feeling them. I mean, I was just happy that you had him on the show and you were like talking to him. And he wouldn't acknowledge that. Like you haven't done shit like this. he looked at all those things was very much more presidential bush is still a decent person do you remember when they found uh there was a a famous photograph of

1:58:51 Well, Yes. Sudafed is like an amphetamine. It's not the real one? And so I suspect he does take a stimulant. Absolutely. He can go on the campaign trail and have all this energy. It seems like he's exhausted. I don't know. be saw certainly possible that's certainly possible but i i don't know i thought maybe I assumed it was a substance thing. but called Ex-Presidents on Mushrooms,

2:04:08 Oh, yeah. that's the thing right it's like you can't get it even if you're a proponent of it and you're a Yeah, exactly. I got laid once. something that you can just get right you know especially like a pure form of it so you know That's something we could do. and you were cool you at the words at the words i mean you look at it you'd be like oh yeah that's

2:06:56 Yes. Sure. alleviating misconceptions yeah or preconceived notions that people have about uh what things do Why not? Some people feel that way. And so and other people need a little more help to get there. about this behavior pattern that i've sort of fallen into grips with no i i That's right. deeper issues and i think if people are starting from there thinking about those deeper issues

2:12:48 kind of issue heard that yeah um so uh yeah it's uh you have these long treatment stays That's a damn good question. longer speaks to him um um so it's like crack is not the problem but we're getting paid because That's it. the hell do we help this guy get a job that he can feel like he's a productive member of our society again. I have a friend whose significant other had a substance abuse problem multiple times.

2:17:11 Apparently, I don't know her, but according to his description, she would fall apart. relationship uh and i don't know how honest and open they are with each other we because you know Yeah. Yeah. They're just not I see what you're saying. Yeah. But it's just that's always the narrative, right? out of that waste bin hmm yeah and that's but it's maybe a way

2:20:55 Are you trying to convince people? So I'm trying to use other people's stories. I lecture all around the world. the closet they're weird um academe is a weird ass place i don't know if you know it very well And typically somebody else was saying it. that's not so great a lot of times, Maybe I do have a misconceived idea about what drugs do to people.

2:25:39 They're not that direct, but they are beating around the bush to try and figure out uh what's what um and then alone in with their books and they weren't very popular um and they got picked on um and so um You don't even know what happened. I know that they were picked on. academia. And I was recently the chair of my department. And one of the reasons i took the job was so that i could

2:30:14 I mean, we're in Harlem. and um who will keep the status quo and um anyway, I thought I was doing what people wanted You know, I think about just an example about what happened in the country with the insurrection and Trump egging the people on. of people that enter into the world of academia go straight from school that's what I did. And again, I was only 17 to 21. Not really any world experience because I had the cocoon of the military protecting me.

2:34:14 and i'm considered just expert but like you said we go from college basically into the academy and you now you're the scientist or whatever no really no Absolutely. Like, what is going on? he did like ketamine to try and reproduce the experience because he heard that that was like it would be good if other scientists in these areas drugs whatever it is would also seek to

2:38:06 So I don't know. But I have a lot more hope about schizophrenia after And so their model might be like, they just have, So it's like, as opposed to it being one way, It's like, how can you tell me I'm incompetent? and it gets even worse because they think that people are plotting against them and everyone's against them and they don't have anybody comforting them yes and we need that we all need that

2:42:22 um particularly edible marijuana could have these predispositions. Marijuana doesn't cause people to be schizophrenic or have a psychotic disorder. But it certainly can precipitate or exacerbate psychosis in people who are predisposed. So what I was going to get to was, do you think that maybe for people every day intravenous or oral however the patient wants it but a lot of intravenous heroin users

2:45:04 One psychiatrist in the Netherlands gave his patients amphetamines, of drugs and drug use but also a place where someone can go where they can get real expert problem with things being illegal is that it props up organized crime. uh dealer um back in the 70s and the 80s and so he talks a lot about how the dealers had this sort of pride in their products.

2:48:06 I don't mind people making money illegally. That's fine. But you know the violence and the crime goes away when you take away the intensity of the law enforcement. All you're doing is putting law enforcement at risk find out like how all these things are made and where all these things come from. there would be a legitimate business running it. That's right.

2:50:50 Hold on. because of illegalization. that they have to work as mules, and they have to put their lives at risk. And the people that are being victimized are the people that are so poor that they have to work as mules. It's really, really fascinating how this problem has persisted for so many decades if you will, law enforcement benefits, we spend $40 billion a year on this kind of thing.

2:52:44 the less likely their competition will be able to get in the game, so they keep the game locked down. There are a number of people who are benefiting. Parents don't have that doesn't seem to have a way out. I'm not putting a dent in this thing. bringing them across the border. I don't know why I always fuck up her name. so courageous. cocaine seeing them process it with all these chemicals yeah and then put it in backpacks and

2:56:23 She exposed the OxyContin business in Florida. any other opioid based pain medication based on the behavior bad behavior of a There was a problem getting pills in Massachusetts, You know, the same sort of thing. it's not the politicians who is who are leading with legalizing cannabis it's the people so we for example, she's a dear friend. many people have already subscribed to what we just described. And so it would be bad for you

3:01:09 I'm here to help. is you're getting this narrative out there. I'm like, what? appreciate you i appreciate your your courage you know i appreciate what you do man and i really talk to you thank you bye but because i mean they're great to talk to you but they're they're And then you talk to you and you're like, no, it's wonderful. do the same sort of thing. And, you know, it's a lovely thing for me. It's really good pressure

3:04:49 I remember I was talking really fast. so it's like yeah rather just like uh if i'm gonna do something on drugs i don't want to be no connection to the material but i gotta tell you some difficult shit i wrote every word in there that one wrong and don't please yeah yeah it's like carl you went off script a little bit you mispronounce some word I'd like to get a copy of this Carl so I can

3:07:52 Thank you, Joe.