Joe Rogan Experience #1605 — Mark Smith Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. You have, first of all, as a referee, you have one of the most difficult jobs in MMA, And that's what the announcer says. Is it now? So there's that philosophy of maybe stopping a fight one punch too early mistakenly stop it too early oh god it's a hard feeling and trust me it's such a difficult job I tell everybody going into a fight, fans are going to hate you or love you.

2:56 and calvin cater there was a lot of people thought you could have stopped that fight long-term injury there's a possibility of him letting that fight go but man if it's starting And what's crazy is I got a text from Pete Spratt, the OG. I worked at Nellis Air Force Base, which is... And then when I came back, I was an aggressor. all of a sudden he's like smiling i don't know the answers of the question you guys don't want

5:14 called Red Eagles that explained a lot of that stuff going on it, Right by Edwards. one of those, like when they were first developing them and flying them before they made it public, for five minutes. And I go, I don't see anything on the radar. thing you know I look up and I go what the shit is that I've never seen anything like that. Yeah, so I had somebody in my backseat that was like, oh, my God, what is that?

7:51 like that will take off some of them in a vertical stance and then go forward but to see something the aggressors, everybody comes there to train, to get prepared for combat. There is no better But the role is a little bit different. is the cockiest person I mean, look at that. I mean, it doesn't even look like a real plane. So is that the maneuverability of it?

10:09 So, you know, internal avionics, the stealth capability, and the maneuverability of it, nothing in the world is going to beat that. So like when I was in Iraq and stuff, we'd take off in Saudi Arabia, fly an hour up, meet a tanker, Now, the goal is endurance. waiting for their turn to come in. So as far as endurance, yes. And basically what that does, as you pull Gs, you're going against gravity and blood starts to drain from your brain down into your lower extremities.

12:45 Yeah, it was like an elevator door was closing. Oh. You know, measles, what it looks like little. G lock is what it's called. and then I blacked out on the way back. You get on a roller coaster, that's like a half you know moving your arm back and forth is there any other technology that they've invented to deal with gravity? breathing, when you exhale and open your mouth, it's going to force air back in with that pressure

15:45 sugar rush for that 45 minute flight and be able to sustain through it really it's more of a health It's easier to sustain gravity? You won't be able to stop. avionics the same basic controls and it's just painted red white and blue and all the professionals into the crowd which is catastrophic catastrophic and accident in the same sense but then if you go

18:11 It's about 30 pounds of back pressure the entire flight. Do they all look like Chris Hyborg? There are variations that are going to be on there. She worked at the White House a couple years after I worked there. Waist. ufc performances exactly like that kind of stuff yeah so you'll have that kind of high level stuff I don't know the exact cost of that, but when I was on the team,

20:48 $334 million. Now, the F-35 is Navy, Air Force, Marine, and we do have some joint partners in that one. Does anyone have something that's similar to an F-22 in other countries? What do you think about all this Space Force talk? preparing for one day when wars are going to be fought in space is that the idea behind i don't stuff there and then a year to travel back now that has changed a little bit because you know

24:02 But I think the truth of it that came down to, and, you know, you saw those movies, Hidden Figures, We didn't have that technology written down. They're all wearing them nerdy glasses with the ties on. Are they updated or are they in the original form? computers like in the bottom left down there all that stuff it you know still There you go. And I go, what?

26:12 Tell everybody who that is. And as you know, it was a race, a race to space against Russia. The first man in space. Well, they recreated it but it's kind of obvious because it's like he looks like he's acting and it's like there was one way to do it. You'd live there and do all of your training. So there's a weight room, there's a game room, there's a TV room, there's a movie room that everybody shares together.

29:01 So I was told, you've got to get your system ready you know celebration a lot of caviar and stuff like that but i kind of looked at it like the base hard the way they keep their security protecting their vips and stuff but it is interesting the So when I left the White House, the boss was like, I probably would have done that. It just slams right in there.

31:44 Oh, to the ISS. For now. Axiom. Oh, for now?'s going, paying money to go. Oh, my God. Oh, to the ISS. You know, former boyfriend of somebody? There's no room for them to sleep on the ISS I'd ask my bosses over in Dallas for a little hiatus, and I'd go do it. The plane is rated to go to 50,000 feet, and that's really for pressurization and some other stuff but

33:13 I put it to him. the space station you know that just the images that i've seen from there it seems like that would gulf of mexico and i'm snapping pictures and posting on social media and stuff there's no We adhere to that 100%. because that's our communication as far as back and forth, talking to the company, the company looking at weather and you know folks in the back as far as being able to

35:55 No, on a commercial airliner. You know, I do that, and things have changed over the years. I used to get on a plane and So I came out of the cockpit, And he didn't. So what I did is I put my hand on the back of the flight attendant and I said, if he I think it was probably something more to it. that have busted that out and tried to get into the cockpit and other crazy things that have happened over the years.

38:32 So they may have met him, but we won't get involved in that at all unless there's actual interaction, physical contact. He very angrily sat down. It's just some people are just, if there's any sort of pushback against them at all, they're almost ready for conflict. were just talking about that that's kind of tough what what age do you you know if it's a two-year-old two-year-olds can't have a fucking

40:17 And when you start to deal with issues like that, man, it takes a lot of, you know, patience and discretion to do the right thing. If you don't do it, now we have to go to the next step. You said that flying over here to do the show was the first time you sat in the back in a long time. So I casually reached down in my bag and I It looks like a space suit.

41:40 I haven't put it on. Which one's the top? And I guess if you seal this bitch up, though. I don't know where to go. Come. Sure. helmet on in the airport yesterday. Like, a guy came to the studio once and he had a mask That's what the real problem is. Like That's what Tom Cruise does. Now, explain to me how you go from being a fighter pilot to being an MMA referee.

44:49 Really? Yeah, so for a semester, you've got to box. and I will say that for years, Yep. Yeah. That's the first gym that I went back to. Shout outSEC, you know, with Skipper Kel, John Lewis. Yeah. my jiu-jitsu, and everything else. That and some of the other UFC fights I bring these guys out. Dana, can I have a picture with you? We took a picture. He's like, what the hell are you doing

46:57 Jeff, his younger brother. and I did the judging for about six months. So I took Herb's course and I did really well there. Yeah, so you have to be qualified to get to that point to accept it. And I made Herb calls to his dean's list as one of his top officials. watched me do a bunch of fights and he would look at my scores and watch me refereeing and then

49:10 Big John's course is extremely hard. Is he still doing that now that he's doing a commentary? I don't know if John's course is still active or not. because again, the goal is to not affect the outcome of a fight. So I do that for a little Holy shit. Three crazy fights. I'm very high on Kevin Holland. And you have to know your fighters to know where their expertise is going to happen.

52:27 You get to, yeah, And you know, that does happen and if there's a language barrier you know so i'm sitting there telling jacare the You don't understand what it's like when you get knocked out. It's always, what happened? over. You may not recognize, but if a coach is there in the corner saying, hey, such and such, some people think you should just let it keep going other people think like that

55:14 What the fuck? Watch this. Yes. and he had Chiesa fully locked in. and there's a difference between a scream and a you know a grunt to get out of something if you Yeah. So I'm counting down in my head. stops, I'm pushing on it and stopping it. That thing? know it's our responsibility as a referee to know your fighter you gotta you know we do you what i

58:42 stopped you have to look how bad it looks that are really brutal in the joints and he's got got his arm deep up high on his back, and he's twisting it. It got a lot worse. wherever some of these other people are doing but if it's like the T-Mobile or something, and you may hear something, He was fighting somebody and the guy bit him. But the audience doesn't hear that, though, right?

1:01:33 interacting too much but to help the tv audience the pay-per-view audience etc what i've learned i So we had to present it to Big John McCarthy and Mark Ratner. about two months ago So I can call time now. Or if you see the referee do like this, couple fouls and the ufc fights earlier that could have constituted the fight continuing to you know make

1:04:15 three minutes. He's got, you know, that feeling is gone now. Now he's been able to recover and Wherever he fell. So in that case of if someone fakes an injury, a little bit of lobster eye going on to a look at the strike i had a had a fight i don't know two or It can't just be a finger. that close man it's a tough call that's what they pay us for to be able to make that high level

1:07:01 He was grounded. I think so, too. We got some great guys there. to say anything again yeah herb is such an open-minded guy too like he's come up to us before fights on saturday let's knock on wood yeah we do we do. Are you doing those? I'm very fortunate. may come out ahead of time. Otherwise, when we get there, we have a pre-meeting where we talk But, man, what a great venue to have those fights in.

1:10:01 What? Oh, right. be in. Well, the first one I did without any audience was Justin Gaethje and Tony Ferguson, You hear everything. In the normal, in like the T-Mobile, which is a phenomenal arena, the end drysdale said you know he's done He's going to encourage his guy in the corner. try to get a mental assessment, And then later on in the fight, Jerram McClellan gets hurt, takes a knee, and winds up stopping.

1:13:44 fucked up they are Can you imagine? I don't remember who he fought against. Oh, no. And what helped me out is Big John pulled me off to the side. was Travis Brown and Arlovsky and I didn't know it ahead of time So here we are in the back with the athletic commission. demonstrates that he tears that was one of the best one round heavyweight fights of all time it was of all time it was so

1:17:15 Travis was one of the most athletic heavyweights I think I've ever seen. and I step in and I say, Travis, fight back. But I can tell that. I mean, Alistair Overeem had him battered. I'm already at the mind frame that this fight's going to be over. like his his body was barely conscious let's see it again like when he hit him with the uppercut But I also step in definitively to protect myself and the fighter.

1:20:10 if if you know the fighter is done show some professionalism you don't have to sit there and But when you see guys get KO'd and they're out cold and the guy jumps on whoever catches first year is going to win this. And he was out before he even hit the ground. They see these guys that are becoming these gigantic superstars, the Dustin Poiriers. That gave an outlet, not just for us as officials, but athletes and teams and everybody,

1:22:13 safe a way as possible and when we're talking about the athletes there was a lot of crazy And if they're paying attention, they're monitoring their resting heart rate. And I do that religiously to get ready for it. They test us, and you go into isolation. but for right now, this is the way we do it. You know, I've heard you talk about the vitamin C, the vitamin D, the zinc,

1:24:49 It was like nine and a half centimeters. I couldn't talk for about six months. For six months? because i'm still not back to 100 recovery but going how long ago was this this was uh shoot Oh, it just sounds different. with you know Gina Carano okay I've trained at Syndicate before John John Woods John Wood you whether I'm doing it with the UFC or whether I'm doing my flying,

1:27:44 one day and i was you know lower back soreness and some other stuff. So I take that thing with me whenever I go fly a trip for the airlines or when i do that preparation for the u.s because it's small The world is watching us right now. People don't realize the lateral movement back and forth. All huge fights. I watch Bruce Buffer warm up. So I watch Bruce warm up, and I had to come up with a routine, you know,

1:30:16 fight. What do you do? You call timeout, and you bring in another referee, or what exactly do you got to be very annoying i i have never seen knock on wood a ufc fight or bellator fight or anything like that have So there's not a lot of room to run. And I try to, you know, so in addition to the strength and conditioning stuff, you know, I've done some classroom stuff like, you know, people talk about what they do during the pandemic.

1:32:42 Well, that's cool. That's cool. and then shuffling back and shuffling forward to try to mimic the actual movements that I'm going to do inside the getting ready for it is there a fight that stands out for you as like the most difficult fight you You know how John's personality is. because the last thing you want is to have a fight get messed up You've done any jujitsu or anything?

1:35:30 Another great school. But, you know, you get the best stuff there. That's not where my focus is. around though and that is that just you recognize the levels yes because sometimes people get a very some of these fighters have. To watch amazing right there. So that's why us as referees, you got to be proficient at it. You get, like what is he doing you won't get that doing you know you got the derrick cleary's's all these guys this is back in the day this is you know we're talking about more than 10 years

1:38:40 The issue is when you go to some smaller commissions that don't have the kind of experience and we talk about how to start it from step one. Sit there and watch judging. Like when we do our training It's like how I got started in this. Yikes. permission of the commissions i bring one or two judges in with me while they're doing their rounds like I teach as well.

1:41:44 They're going to get those opportunities. You try to keep it professional with everybody. I can pick up the phone afterwards and get honest feedback from him. Off and on. So what I do is like, you know, two primary commissions, Nevada and California, I'll call them ahead of time and say, you know, hey, but you can't get any better than California and Nevada.

1:43:58 Which title fight? but the household names of Herb Dean, John McCarthy, Mark Goddard. I think John Morgan and MMA Junkie guys did the article a couple months ago, So I think Jeff Mullen showed a lot of confidence in me with that last card You got to be mentally and physically prepared for that one. March 6th. these guys weigh less than me just you know. They weigh less than you for about five minutes.

1:46:44 This entire season, there have been some great fights the entire time. you know Holly Holm kind of exposed her on the ground I'm sure she's gotten much Oh, Usman and Burns is the fight. going to be in title fights coming up in the next couple months so yeah and you know both guys Now is one of the scariest strikers in the sport. That's right. You know, the fans have their favorites and they watch and they want this and that to happen.

1:50:13 he lost which is crazy yeah and I got to do the uh you know the inspection of the pit for his last it shows a contrast in Anderson Silva silva's fight with forrest griffin The UFC doesn't want him anymore. that, you know, from the USADA. In some places. Yeah, some places. But what we do is if a fighter You do. But you have to have an understanding of the fighter before you step in there. You know, someone has gotten knocked out a

1:53:18 yeah um what is your thought how do you feel when you see guys that are fighting, like they have these 20-plus year careers, he fought against Joe Lozon. Yeah. And you remember up against the cage, he was taking he could not have uh come back but you think of a guy's resilience you know and then i did this sport. He was losing that fight. That was a 170 fight. Ellenberger was a a Jake Ellenberger fight. He was losing that fight.

1:55:44 Yeah. How's the fight going? You can't know every single thing about all the fighters, It changes. You know, one thing I try to do in completely different worlds, but I try to treat it just pull guard or something like that, or he's going to go up against a cage and do this. so one of my best friends in the world is Chaz Mulkey, I started with Marvin Eastman.

1:58:38 With the positions, to train to get an understanding of, So I've got a fighter in the cage right now knowing what to look for. Jesus. And you've seen some crazy ones. Yeah. I think I had one on a Tuesday night fight. And I realized he was out. He gets put in the Von Flu and he's looking at me. He's awake. And you'll hear the coaches saying, no, don't do that.

2:01:00 Yep. understand it they'll yell at you for stopping the fight and they'll go, his eyes are open. He's still awakening. The Von flu chokes, I have, That's a little bit different versus getting knocked out, you know, if you got any kind of brain injury. But I mean, we got a lot of pilots that we work with, was a toe hole. And it's a multi-process. fighting and i will i'll explain to them in the back there's a difference between a grunt to get

2:03:51 Isn't it crazy? Let me ask you this, though, as a Muay Thai practitioner, because I haven't really gotten a good answer. that is getting kicked so if there's proficiency in defending against it guys are going to be apt Well, also specifically in that fight, because Conor has that wide stance, know it's it's sugar time baby sean o'malley o'malley you remember when he fought that kid

2:06:39 No, I don't think it was a Marlon Vera fight. Yes. You know, that happened in Bellator. What does a fighter have to be able to demonstrate to continue to fight? Dustin Poirier was in that same situation with Jim Miller. fighters start doing it but it's very rare that a technique that's been around forever just they A lot. Which is going to have impact.

2:09:50 muay thai fighters should be able to as well but they're just not doing it that way does this make been hit but he's just so fucking tough that he figured out a way to get through it and get just There's no toughing through that calf kick, man, because the pain is just, it's a weird pain. Right. If I see that somebody's hurt like that, I may move a little bit closer

2:11:48 it's our responsibility to help him out. if it's during the round, there's no injury timeout. they pulled their hand back or shook it like how do you make that distinction i'll i'll look at fighting. They'll just change their game plan. In our jurisdiction, in Nevada, it's up to the referee to make the decision with the consultation sticking out something but if i've seen that uh yeah you know which we've had you know at the

2:14:15 or peed on themselves or something. his pants once in the middle of a fight but i think what he didn't get knocked out he just had and he's like yeah this is before he fought When you've had this incredible military career and been a fighter jet pilot, master's in computer systems management. I got a master's in international security and strategic

2:16:21 One, my parents always pushed me to do something amazing. Oh, one of never gonna accomplish shit and it was funny because i saw them years later you know and it Look where I am right now. But I'm never. It's MMA referee. in the military, It takes a lot to be able to get there. to have that, is it cockiness? I'd rather call it, you know, confidence yet unassuming. You don't want to be too cocky to the point of thinking

2:20:03 that one day. And here we are years later, What are you guys doing in about three months? You know, the joy and the respect, the fighters, told you when i got that message from you about stuff like this is you know we believe in the coordination between all the jets like So I think if you do like Thunderbird ejection at Mountain Home in 2003, Ah, you're using an ad blocker.

2:23:00 So he actually crashes right in front of us. So the F-16 has a radar altimeter on it, which tells you your above ground, how many feet you are. to be able to read it properly inside the cockpit so it makes it it makes a transition level stuff you so it seems like some of them may not be motion uh but this is exactly some of them cockpit. And then your control stick is going to be on your right hand, and then your throttle and

2:26:03 So what's unique about this, the solos demonstrate the performance capabilities of the f-16 etc the diamond which i was in we We start off at about seven feet apart. So in the diamond, there are two positions that I would look at 45 degrees Or, you know, back in with the pull to start pulling back. It's a primary recruiting tool, you know, for us, the United States Air Force.

2:28:51 you're living the life of a rock star i mean there's no doubt about that the blue angels A million people watch. 120, 150 rides, flights to get you prepared for that. Wow. And then it's, you start off as a two That was incredible. You know, it's fun for people to go to air shows. you know we hope and if there's's video to it out there and audio sometimes.

2:31:55 the horrible thing would be if the plane crashed and then they parachuted down to the fires He's actually below the ejection envelope. Well, the drogue chute pulls him out enough. what saves him but if you're high enough you can grab the string so you can manipulate the parachute there was an air so that picture, click, click, click, they'll make a determination

2:34:31 And there are only six demonstration pilots. So we changed around some of our formations. five ship and then they hire odds and evens every year so one three five seven a homeowner fighter pilot out in Vegas. And you got to be, you know, have the nerves to be able to do this. you know they were like oh we're going past Mount Rushmore how did it look and I go it looked like

2:37:00 Wow. And then when I went to Air Force pilot training, we went into a T-37 Tweet. And then from there, we tracked based upon how well you did. So we went fighter bomber track or tanker transport. I went fighter bomber. So I flew the T-38 and that to combat squadrons all around the world, South Carolina, Korea, you know, back to Arizona, And the President places you somewhere in their cabinet to be a senior advisor to like a cabinet

2:39:37 International Space Station. And I prepared a budgetary book for Congress 2007 that was presented with cabinet secretaries or chief of staff of the Air Force and folks like that. Like one of the safety protocols, they check you for weapons? I heard it's small. I would say the best part of it is that program is a bipartisan position. Really? To see that side of a person.

2:42:29 and talk about stuff presidency, like Condoleezza Rice was on, you know, his administration and, and obviously, So here we are years later that these are still some of my best friends in the world My military call sign was Chappie. And I was like, how the heck did he remember, you know, what my military call sign was? Did you ever test fly anything?

2:45:45 have to talk to pilots right I mean that has to be an integral part of the design of it like you You get all that kind of input. And guys that are active duty, they get to go out and fly that thing and test it. So why don't they just make only F-22s? the you know yf-22 back in the day versus the YF-23, which company makes it, I would, but they're going to have to make some concessions

2:48:46 No, you do have it pretty good. I'm like, is that a plane or a helicopter with some of the stuff that it's doing? so as a 200 pound guy you pull nine g's your body feels like it weighs 1800 pounds They've looked at single pilot, you know, cargo airplanes and stuff like that. The physical limitations of the human body? nine you're like oh my god this is you know sinking down into the scene then you've seen

2:51:52 you got to go down there and you do that. You sit in a seat and you got to be able to pull And that determines the amount of G that you got to pull. it's going to feel a little bit different. tremendously I'll see you in like for both of them appreciate you having me bye everybody Sure. Absolutely. I'll be there all month. So just a really incredible opportunity. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it.