Joe Rogan Experience #1691 — Yeonmi Park Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Yes. that there was no protein. It's sometimes this feels like a dream. is actually in our dreams when we sleep, The nightmare is that you're still trapped in North Korea. When you lived there, you didn't know that there was another way to live. I never even seen the map of the world. was re-raised for us and but the thing is that we are hungry, we're starving.

4:08 begging to give food and formula It's a Hunger Games. It's like when i was reading this book hunger games i literally like oh my god this person copied north korea there's a captar you divide into 13 different Like for one example, one of the classifications is if your grandfather or great-grandfather committed some sort of a sin, you are perpetually punished for that.

5:41 Three to eight generations. No, they're all gone. that they were related to this person. Let's nationalize the land, get rid of private property. That's how they prevent the mixing with the class. And that's when I thought, wow, that is justice. even have any we don't even have a cookbook that's the thing as a korean We don't even have any, we don't even have a cookbook.

8:56 So when you would eat, where would you get your food from? for North Koreans. our rule is successful. Preventing, not now, even last time, We don't want any medicine. It takes like 30 minutes to gather your thoughts to be able to walk straight Like, find your own food. In North Korea, you don't even own yourself, right? What to eat, where to go to work, what to do, when to go to sleep.

12:58 dogs? Yeah. That was because of So everyone's dog in all of North Korea was confiscated and killed. No. For education, free housing, free of everything. How do you farm? It's not like he was selling weapons or drugs. to even imagine that the same time I'm living here, Exactly how having too much is a problem. And I mean, Like you're in, right? And to me, I don't know why that is so challenging.

16:32 So I'm like, even that is a reason for a complaint. Yeah, but food is addictive. compassion for the but you know a lot of problems like I met American friends in New York I went to and rats would eat the eyeballs of the people who were dying, so they are floating in the rivers and then they also train station somehow had a lot of dead Traveling in North Korea is an unbelievably difficult thing within North Korea.

19:46 and taking away and one, but the thing is for me, It was every day as like normal and there's a young teenage boy i think lying down and his intestines coming out of his back That still haunts me to this day. It was just normal. I think her appendix was bursting or something. So who do you know what the other person has? and when they're dead, their mouth is somehow open,

23:07 You don't find those often. So they were catching them with their hands. It's like, She was lying there like that. Because when you are, there's a North Korean proverb. So before they die, they eat at least so they can die. And she's like, I can eat the mountains of bread. So your father was arrested for trading in metals, right? So I think he was totally in prison 34 years, but he got out of for sick leave, which is had to go back once he got better.

26:53 Three, four years, yeah. Their voice is different. Like, terrified to the point they don't even know they're terrified. I was like young. How did you get out? it is literally the darkest place on earth. And initially my mom and I went to look for sister where she went. But when we found the lady, anything because they do this all subconscious like torture that they make you not sleep in a

31:17 she said like you are like 18 or something and my mom was something 30 so she told me that our It's a smuggling. So that's a big problem for Chinese regime. So they are catching all the defectors. Because that's what Kim Jong-un believes. and then there's guards shooting to kill, sacrificed herself because they wanted you. Yeah. And this is the first time you had ever

35:13 I did not know that was rape. So in North Korea there's even no word for I. So they don't want people to be individualistic, say I like this say I and then of course all the North Koreans keep saying we americans because it was performative where people were performing they were they were they were not So we are doing it to survive. Did you see anyone who didn't mourn enough?

37:50 She would say, be careful of your tongue because that is the most dangerous weapon you got in your body. from the foreign CIA or the South Korean intelligence. So how did they find out that she wasn't really a spy? And so this was a common thing. So even I'm being a nice person, not going to report on you. there's no way out of it that's how they create distrust like one thing that shocked me when i came to the west like how trust exists in north korea there's a saying i don't even trust your

40:36 the state line of five six years old in the beginning and then like in the age going to now now there's executions but my time was more the guard standing and shoot you here here and get punished you have to. And what are the crimes that you could be sentenced to death for? the first thing is not you run with your family become sex machines. Every year they do that. So these officials, now the guy who's in the second power in North Korea, his name is

43:34 But if there's a newspaper, Having escaped that and looking back on it now and the conclusion was the only resemblance that we find in our history Of course. I mean, the crystal meth and opium. So they experiment on their own he's proud to say that. And he's not even bothering to hide in the past. And, of course, they die from radiation. So they need a lot of those people.

47:12 And some people are born into these camps. Yeah, those are people in the concentration camps. was working with the Japanese hair i have and that's how so when you become a god you need to explain you don't need to make like Jesus knows what you're thinking, And as you just asked, what can be done? Why does China support North Korea? Hong Kong's going to be independent.

50:43 mao's son died to korean war by defending communist party in the north that's how Mao's son died to Korea more by almost this last country that holds ideology called socialism. So it's a very symbolic country. They know? But North Koreans come and put the wire in between here, in between your bones. don't have to go that far but of course north koreans do not accepting defection right that's

53:36 They are breaking the international law. or like Taliban, like Malala. And most of them are women and girls. And not only knowing what you went through, but the fact that you talk about this openly. But why some slavery matters over some other slavery, right? three years ago in Malaysia. Yeah. Why there is not even one single movie coming out of Hollywood

56:30 none of them do when it's real life. And this is not, these are not secret stories. It's not. I mean By the time he got to America, So North Korea, this nationalism is to the highest. Not just don't talk about it, but it keeps going generation after generation. nothing they were like there's no accountability that we are asking of these people so standing

58:45 it's most likely you're going to be just like get killed and nobody cares and just keep moving on. They'll talk about Afghanistan. I think by talk, I think this is a beauty of living in democracy. So if individuals are being educated What was the response? So these five guys They put me right next tried of course but at the UN and complain that, of course,

1:01:41 But of course, this is not what they care. It's all about their own interest. Organ trafficking. it gets to you within three hours. A lot of the Middle East and those countries go to China to get the organs. And China says, It became a biggest now, But Falun Gong is different, like a peaceful religion they were wanted. Wow. survivors do testimony. They have told about this. Yeah, it's very well

1:05:11 And then like me, some of them just being sold, like my mom was sold for just like mentally so when you were 13 you escaped when tell us what it was like. First of all, where did you escape to? You escaped to China? Yeah. And they were like turning me around like a slave market, right? you can go back to North Korea, right? and I did not know what it was.

1:07:36 Because we never needed a trash bin in North Korea. to try to start a fire. So they demand us to bring the poop to have a fertilizer so they demand us Oh, we have all our houses digging a hole but we around march so they have to you know in like january they collect them and pile them up and That's just too much for us to handle. So it's just so easy to...

1:11:53 So, when you escaped to China, what is the process like when you're in China? I feel like I lived a thousand years on this earth. Yeah. traffickers and they even come follow you to bathroom there's no human dignity in it trafficker my mom covered second trafficker i felt like hell i would literally lose my mind And I started telling him, that's my mom, my mom.

1:15:13 all his money and somehow this evil man was letting me go because he couldn't even afford So this is all on the Internet with web cameras? I heard that in South Korea, the South Korea was very corrupt capitalist The entire humanity wants to be like North Korea. Yeah. thought of freedom. Watching TV and wearing You get sent to prison camp for wearing jeans.

1:17:59 Everything chat rooms and you a condition to be rescued by Christians. No, we couldn't go to South Korea, obviously. Several months. And, like, North Koreans, like, don't worry, baby. that they taught you in North Korea. How'd you do that? and the seven ladies and That was the horrifying thing about desert is that it looks all the same. So that means so dangerous.

1:21:41 after Beijing Olympic. Chinese or the Mongolians, both of them can just shoot you bring water what did you bring food? Did you bring water? Keep going. him sleeping pills because he would cry and he doesn't speak chinese but in the desert he had asleep the cold will kill him? Oh yeah. Yeah. It was a very low chance of making it. So nobody not escaping through Mongolia anymore.

1:25:16 so north koreans very much gave me bring the laser and poisons with us to write to kill ourselves So to cut your veins. For them, it's like a joke. and then they took her to ER and they revived her but forever her brain got damaged. thankfully nobody's choosing They don't even give you a spoon so that's how prevent a suicide because all nurse can kill themselves

1:28:08 So eventually they let you go? And so when they determine that you're North Korean, what are they trying to find out? So everybody's defectors And then what happens? I don't even know the map so I'm like blank pace like adult baby My mom got drunk with soju and touching her, right? Oh, so they have a place where they take in people from North Korea?

1:32:03 How to even like to a movie theater, Overwhelming. that you have to think for yourself what do you want to do your life and i was like do i have to I would get exhausted all day. because in prison they're told what to do. So a lot of North Koreans do have a hard time to adjust to freedom. I did not know what cow was, right? You didn't know what a cow was? fancy i did not know that like what cow was right

1:34:54 But after five, you cannot eat more But the thing is, you think you're going to eat everything. Like you would think like, oh my God, it's a paradise. If not, like getting used to Coca-Cola, No. Really? Yeah. Right, right. How do I know? Exactly, oak. I was like, and a lot of people farm they grow on their tomatoes and peppers. So my mom would never do this to me ever again.

1:39:04 You're 17 years old, right? And a lot of North Korean women They cannot become even the waitress because we have an accent. 안녕하세요 is a hi. So they know by the way you talk? Both of them. they give you money, I remember in San Francisco a few years ago when I came to America, after my speech, somebody So there was no gay people in North Korea? How do you expect us to know what gay is?

1:42:13 Height difference. Our grandpa was the tallest, and my father and me. It's like a $1 store in Korea. Yeah. So when you're born, you're one, and you gain age not on your birthday. even though you're only a month old. Right. Wow. Yeah. So you're really 15 years old American age I was 15, but South Korean age I was 17 years old. Wow. And learning. Which is amazing because a lot of people here don't even go to university when they're 17,

1:45:19 So I'm still like 79, like 80 pounds, but way smaller than this. all this writing everything but on top of that i that, I was reading books. I read, somebody called Michael Jackson Apple Steve Jobs died. Right. america like i did not even know what arab is or hispanic is right And I listened to a lot of your podcast. It was, I mean pace it's it was i mean it's amazing the first of all that you

1:49:18 I think that was the hardest thing. animal farm that's when i understood what happened to my people then you understood double speak and It's impossible. For sure, there is oppression in this country. Well, you caught Columbia University at a terrible time, right? this terrible person who's going to destroy I was seeing myself censoring every day again.

1:52:53 met was a teacher you know what I mean in South Korea my knowledge was so You're brainwashed? That's like how to show you the overpowering you. like you're brainwashed. I mean, to search for truth. and to deny that is to deny reality and to deny nuance and that's what's really scary is the And I was like, why? i like secretly a bigot am i secretly a racist and they'll reaffirm it with you and then in order

1:56:55 openly. When they would talk about this, they would get chastised by the people in the university. they were sort of silenced in the universities And I told them I had an engagement in Texas. Yeah. the white people calling me I'm a racist, And so you called the police and who- So, of course, I got punched. I couldn't call the police. big girls they're gonna have the victim

2:01:03 And this is after she already robbed you. Like me became a bigot and calling these black girls a thief. Circling you and calling you a racist Oh boy. And I'm like, you realize that this stuff spills Like, on birth certificate, his mom is North Korean. he who wants to be work hard and we believe in meritocracy. And he got half white who's like What do they gain from it?

2:04:09 You'll be an outcast. and you've given them vaccine passports and allowed them to track your whereabouts and allowed They don't understand. agree with. They drive us to go to the war and say what i want you to say yeah it's just strange the short-sightedness is so strange because you They were saying, well, Obama's never going to do this. Well, you're probably going to have someone on the right and it's going to be someone

2:08:33 And you give them eight years each side or four years each side. But in this society and today, you have people on the left, which are supposed to be the Right. Why do they have the power seems to be sliding further and further in this direction of totalitarianism and these people are They're not looking at all of the... And we're so polarized with the right and the

2:11:27 And I was like, I'm still waiting a call from New York Times. They still do want me to talk about China, But the thing is, you know, Fox never accused me, why did you get on New York Times and criticizing Trump? Yeah. that go on these shows and talk. I know. He's critical of the way the government and the FDA and everyone is handling COVID. way that's inflammatory or in a way that's causing people to distrust certain institutions. But then then oppose him, oppose him, debate him.

2:15:05 And then it's gonna come for you to succeed the line and be secure, he get executed. and they said that they thought he was sick? So he's not healthy. In Korean years or American years? we never get to change North Korea. But that's the unique thing about freedom. and bus and public transportation. and people rate you oh, comparing the biggest difference

2:18:35 But now you cannot be an individual. So they did not know that thing was embraced here. people who is fighting the civil rights justice fight and this is a thing like uh one video i made about the second amendment a ability to defend themselves from the governments when they become corrupt and of course sharing Most of them. The only thing that gets discussed is the actual weapon itself.

2:21:48 And one of the things that I read was that as they're doing this, only nine people have died from COVID. for a year and a half right and i told their mom your baby might die from not getting a son Yeah, July 11 is locking down and put down cheeseburgers. It's crazy and a lot of his lifestyle choices and the government does nothing to stop those deaths

2:24:30 They need to talk to David Goggins. a racist and I'm a racist I'm a bigot right I'm a Nazi now too like I did not even know what the I know. You know, a lot of people that support freedom and the freedom of expression and the ability to speak freely and It's infiltrating everywhere. So what do we do with China? Yeah. He didn't say anything like that.

2:28:04 Because there's so many people that commit suicide that they have nets around the building to stop people from jumping off the roof because Yeah. I think they look at the worst examples of capitalism. You're seeing that with like these subprime mortgages that cause the housing collapse. The foundation of that still exists. The default position, if you go throughout history

2:31:04 Any dissent gets shut And it's terrifying. China's going to sneak in and they're going to take over all sorts of corporations by buying them out. They're going to take over all They understood what has happened in the past when people have organized, So that is, I mean, I don't know. government that's ever controlled the people throughout human history we we have a chance

2:34:32 And they're not being honest about all sorts of aspects of the disease. And more people are terrified of being rejected by their tribe than they are of the truth not getting out. Didn't they talk to you about that in Colombia too? And people are emotionally not stable, so they bring the comfort dogs in the classroom. What if the dogs start fighting?

2:36:53 Wow. Why can't you say that? But what is this self-loathing? i've said on this podcast many times but i'll say it again is that hard times create hard men. Hard men create soft times. it doesn't mean you're angry it means strength it means discipline it means the ability like That's what's happened. I mean look what's You can't be weak, and in this country, being weak is thought of as a virtue.

2:39:30 And it's that old expression. ideas that have been disproven not not just disproven, that have caused the deaths of untold millions of people. to any reality that's the thing why universities like scare you and you are never getting a real sense of the that his grandmother's people had when Stalin was running Russia. in all of its terrifying, brutal detail,

2:42:00 that exists right now while you and I are sitting here. We're not going to expose these things. It's almost you are so capable. And the biggest problem you have is somebody calls you wrong pronoun. All they have to do is yell about it and scream about it and talk about how horrible it is and everybody's like oh my god i hear your truth agent was telling me, my editor was telling me

2:44:13 So per hour, $200. And I was like, the fact that I know what trauma is, what PTSD is, Exactly. bank are consulting friends in New York And I think a lot of people feel like they can't find someone in their life that they trust enough with their true feelings and their real thoughts. of ourselves inside us, right? and i think not talking right we can be so resilient compassionate beings or We can be so resilient, compassionate beings,

2:47:43 They can be talked to. I wanna know if somebody planning that. where you could see And I was so grateful that I felt even sadness. experiences like unplanned nobody knew the mdma which was that what it was in california and that's actually this is how they feel actually yeah is it possible to There's so much of it. Like that's the thing, like in the center of everything,

2:52:09 saying she loves me right right but i think that's the thing like i did not know what it was but and you know better than anybody alive because of your the country where you were born i mean and all the wonderful things to stop supposed to sponsor Kim Jong I don't know crying and it was a fundraising for the dogs and puppies and animals eating to give millions of dollars

2:55:41 I think it's anti-human sentiment. Like 4 billion people living under some authoritarian dictatorship countries. And so they don't speak about it because to actually do something would require an enormous effort to do something to change the regime of North Korea. for people that don't agree with what they agree with. It seems too big. It seems like

2:57:35 Right. Well, we did Trump, right? That's a thing. It seems like And they think if Kim Jong-un is backed by American president, So that's how he went to China for the first time, meeting Xi Jinping. He didn't even get the invitation to visit China. It's China, basically. North Korea is China. That's how they disable them and enslave to their ideology

3:00:52 So that's how slowly they infiltrate every sector and then like uh the mountain that i climbed they went to google uh map somewhere and checked the So she's trying to change her life. But one thing I did hide was that I trafficked in China. by a human trafficker, there's not even one single accusation And I'm here saying America is the best country in human history.

3:03:38 I can't believe that that's keeping people like the Washington Post or the New York Times. But no, because they expect me to become now a victim, right? that they want you to portray because your actual story is a very human story, remember when they made a movie? So they don't even talk about in the public that you get attacked from north korean regime

3:06:27 And they made them to denounce me. So even including my neighbors. In my entire town, my father's side, mother's side, entire generation. and there's documentaries about it. What do you think is going to happen with that country like china they can last a lot longer they might last longer than us they might beat us because So you have a genuine concern that this country could collapse?

3:09:15 if we do not push like every class you set up at Columbia, They mess up every single thing. What's the problem studying Western music in the West? Yeah. I mean, that's really what's happening right now But I really enjoyed talking to you. And I hope more people want to talk to you. like your dog died and in that desert like that's the thing, I wasn't afraid of dying. I was thinking, nobody knew that I existed.