Joe Rogan Experience #1705 — Bret Weinstein & Heather Heying Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Really good to see you. That's one of the things that can happen too. Yeah, it's kind of an important lesson because so it's good for people to know that there are health care options. you know, how do we alert our medical system that we all need the Joe Rogan protocol at the point Unfortunately, you can't sell look, this is something you have to know. It comes from being exposed to the sun. If you're not

3:25 they're going to make a bunch of supplement companies a lot of money selling vitamin D. And we're just in this weird place where we almost don't want to admit how bad things have gotten in terms of the way information is distributed and manipulated. yeah yeah i want to i want to say something about horse dewormer i want to talk about her book but and dengue and yellow fever. And no one is talking about that. So is it not as effective as some

5:57 But what is the actual study show? I think it's probably causing a wave of calls to poison control centers with people asking questions. with to know what its harms are. The thing about ivermectin is because it's been in use for 40 And these people automatically want to ridicule anything that might be outside of the realm of when he told them we didn't fund gain-of-function research in Wuhan.

10:05 pandemic, how is he also in charge of keeping us safe? And why are we tolerating him lying to us? follow the science. When you dig, it's like, oh, well, we went into a back room somewhere and concluded some things. You're right. no matter what evidence of dishonesty emerges. Yeah, it's very strange. It's very strange. And he's on the right team. Literally six days later, I was working out.

13:22 And, you know, Pierre Corey also got COVID, also recovered very quickly. And they were saying, are we doing enough to keep our patients out of the hospital? we should probably do this. Yeah. I mean, certainly we should be taking that approach. have a serious background in the things they're teaching, what they have a background in is the All these landscapes are just decohering, right? So how can we make sense? And can we get ourselves

17:01 And my real fear is that other countries are looking at this and laughing and they they are contributing to this sort of confusion. You're right that the things that are supposed to work, right? out that are basically low tech. And so, you know, for 15 years in the classroom, what we taught our students was And specifically, we make the observation, which is not new, that we are changing our world so fast that even though we humans are better at adapting to changing environments than any other species on the planet, even we can't keep up.

20:17 right? So we can say whatever the fuck we want. But YouTube has taken this position But of the evidence that points in one direction or the other, it all points to the lab, right? that we all know are right, right? We've now seen the emails. We've heard the lies, right? doing this arrogantly imagining, or claiming at least, that what they are doing is advancing a

23:01 Right. The scientific process itself is one in, I mean, automatically when science works, what happens is it tells you that things you used to think were true aren't and that something else is true. Like, oh, we didn't even imagine that before. for the people that don't have your background to listen to you guys discuss this We don't know this or we don't know that.

25:08 But you're also going to get folks like you guys that find this massive audience. something like that in the classroom. And the audience was slightly smaller. Here's what I would predict. in which he says, here's how you'll know if it's It's a method that functions. onto it and it feels more real than actually I went out into the field and I had my rubber boots

28:53 ourselves to new ideas through conversation. And one of the ways that we expand consciousness for with us but we don't because apparently the pre-orders are so great that the box of them they were supposed to send us went to other people. Yes. In some circles, it's just the opposite, I think. the way you see your own life. It simplifies it. It makes things much more intuitive.

31:33 everything book that's what our agent said he's like you know you guys are thinking about sex and so that you too, anyone listening, watching, could figure out how to do those same kinds of analytical tricks in their own lives. eat these things, I don't feel so good. Why might that be the case? And how might we have a theory involves the dynamics when you have limited

34:23 because there's a conflict between the story that we tell ourselves about being a people and wanting to accomplish a goal. then you have a perverse incentive where you don't really want other people's children motivated by something else. But how would it not be this way? How would it be that evolution would avoid the calculation being done by those who were in a

37:27 And then we've gotten into fights about whether or not the group is a viable unit of selection, which it isn't. So then we will come up with a causes belly and go after them because the underlying genes reactors, for example, you can't have them in a war zone where somebody is going to lose control unlike other species, move from one niche to the next, that we actually have a mechanism

40:15 There's no blueprint. Anyone who claims to know how we avoid tyranny has to be lying or confused It's just, you know, I want more, I got more sugar, that we describe. The first one is a geographical frontier, which is the classic, right? Some landscape that is unexplored. And it a transfer of resource frontier, where a population figures out how to take resource

43:05 spending energy. And, you know, as you're cooling your house indoors, you're warming your backyard that the company was getting bigger. There it is. People who are constantly feeling deprived on the diet they're on don't stay on that diet. a big one. Like, uh, my wife has a, like a legitimate gluten intolerance, you know, and And she said it was rough at first because she loves bread, you know, the smell of it,

46:21 But you can now, you can trick your gut bond not trick you can train your gut train Sapphire Gin, which I didn't think had wheat in it stuff. My hands fall Let me just add before. know anyone with this wheat sensitivity, is like, for God's sake, it's just another fad. It's like Oh, yeah. which doesn't mean that modern wheat wasn't involved in causing it. But I do think for all

49:55 There's no reason that I should have an allergy to wheat. in a past environment had something else to do. us who have these sensitivities can't do anything about them except avoid the things that trigger us, Right? So I believe Mike Mew, who I actually had on my podcast. first started to innovate the study of the interrelationship between diet and the development of our jaws. And what John and Mike Mew have discovered is that because we have effectively made the diet for very young children very soft, that what we have done is caused a collapsing of the palate.

53:36 You have a jaw that doesn't have room for teeth. driven out of orthodontia because his heterodox view of malocclusion is at odds with the central Chewing gum. Yeah, and this is a response to not having had sort of the right developmental environment in given binkies or pacifiers, whatever you want to call them, don't tend to need this. We don't feel like bones do. Why? Because they're like hard.

56:39 So part of what we're talking about here is, yes, obviously genetics is real, genes are real, orthodontia, telling one story, and then a couple of renegades saying, that story isn't right, but I knew it was going to have to do with novelty. coherent and they aren't. Right. You can put any two people together and you can get a coherent skull. And so there would be, you know, 20 versions of an animal open on the tables at the same time.

1:00:11 But look at how different, look at how many different muscle groups there are in cats, et cetera. But things like circulatory structures were wildly variable. And so even the shape of the as long as it gets where it's going, it's probably going to be okay. And there's going to be people structure, right? And the developmental program can figure out how to do that, right?

1:03:14 We see, you may have seen descriptions of Fibonacci sequences, these mathematical sequences it will still put the leaves in the right place. gnaw on things that would properly strengthen their jaws and would result in their face shape He's obviously – we can tell you he's telling an evolutionary story that makes sense and his detractors are telling one that doesn't.

1:05:29 But we've all seen cases of the status quo telling a story that actually doesn't make sense, but it doesn't matter because they have the power to tell whatever story they want. we are all harmed in many ways by a modern environment that is giving us inputs that don't make any sense. Yeah. that's already there, right? Vaccination borrows from an immune system that's ready to learn a molecular formula for a pathogen.

1:08:08 and the tooth literally moves horizontally through the jaw, right? That's awesome. well, the roots of your teeth are short. I don't know, but I do know it's tied into all kinds of systems that have implications, right? about individuals, we're talking about health and medicine and food and sleep, like, okay, something historical in order to get to proper health. On the case of vitamin D, it's actually

1:11:02 Fish oil. figure this out when we've been doing millions and millions and millions of braces. So Mike Mew was actually second generation. And the reason I think that's I think we can do this. So, you know, the power of partnership, of relationship point is, yes, it does take time. Some ideas take generations actually to mature. But I will say there's another point in the question you asked about why Mike Mew, right? If you look at the

1:14:57 And that meant that when it was time for them to say, no, you have it wrong, they probably didn't. is one of these traits in like the big five reason to speak, the only conditions on which you should speak is to say rah-rah, that presents this And to all of our peril, you know, science doesn't work with agreeableness and we won't get good But it's common with men and celebrated.

1:18:00 No. covert. And it doesn't look like the way it does in a boardroom meeting when a guy says, actually, no, I think you're wrong about that. and how we function has been offloaded If it's in the software layer, we can actually alter it. sense is very important. That has been true in places that were the province of men. Those places don't need to be the province of men. Women are just as

1:22:05 the rule book. What we have to do is figure out, okay, these things may have been the province of those distributions, but it does hold up. Do we know why? got a wrong calculation in there, it doesn't serve anyone for you to be polite about it, So, you know, the social landscape can be more effectively dealt with with a kind of agreeableness sometimes.

1:24:46 You would think. pursue the questions on their minds rather than sustenance effectively, that the incentive to tell a wrong story that you could support but would ultimately give way didn't exist, right? If you That's what all the time. to be a problem across science, right? Because we plugged the market into this process, the process doesn't work.

1:27:53 And hopefully still the original reasons that people go into these fields are those honorable ones, but the market grabs us all. He's a great guy. a paper arguing, if I'm remembering correctly, something like the penis is a social construct So somewhat later, he and Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsay published a series of papers on absolutely absurd.

1:30:21 phony quadrant of the academy in which people were pretending to scrutinize papers that claimed And so they didn't even get as many published as they would have. So we both guest lectured in his programs. Yeah, it's originally about creating space for women's sports at some sort of equity wisdom at all. It's ideological. But the idea that a guy like Peter who has dedicated himself

1:33:57 published on Barry Weiss's sub stack. It's quite good, but I don't think it covered the straw that but we've been in Peter's home. No. It describes this event. We need functional science there's a lot of things that we need that are becoming super dysfunctional very fast do you think that maybe like what's happening with Like you're at the forefront of that.

1:37:03 The model is crazy right like Yes, she is doing something unique with her particular Substack Get the thinking out there such that more and more people are sharing it. I don't know how it happened. We need to send somebody there to find out what happened. replacement, basically Higher Ed 2.0. And immediately the question arises, do you want your new institution to be accredited?

1:40:18 to be able to attract those people. prevent competitors from arising, which is important because it would not be hard to by the federal government, which will be unfortunate, but that does tell me that this and it drives up the price of that food. Whereas if the thing hasn't been sprayed, It seems like what it would take is very well-respected professors to step out en masse mass like to have some sort of a

1:43:53 shameful in a lot of people's eyes that this guy who's this brilliant man who's so well spoken and beloved and that he didn't get 10 a lot of people didn't even know until this controversy hit the enough anymore if they're complying you don't want them and so you know I think and they're a little bit in conflict with one another. So, you know, the big names that you just mentioned, I think,

1:46:22 students while understanding that their students are fundamentally human beings just like themselves. The irony about this whole YouTube censorship listening. I just can't imagine listening to your show and seeing the conversations that you guys And you're right. It shouldn't be threatening to anybody. But to the extent that you have been sold narratives are correct, right?

1:49:15 And if you're the kind of professor that actually recognizes that they're real people, and that apparently in like a bunch of years your heads okay let me go back and clarify what I meant got a really bad rap obviously whenever green blew up because there was a group students sound like, you would think that our classrooms would have been filled with people.

1:51:50 but the media seems to assume that most people aren't smart enough to handle the truth. There's an energy that you have when you're in a room of people and you're looking at each other in the eye and discussing these ideas that's infectious and it you know it also And so even a small class in which you don't really know people, you're teaching four credits and you're standing at the front of the room.

1:54:00 That doesn't sound fun or interesting or rewarding at all. Yeah. Actually, one of our best students, Drew Schneidler, was also our research assistant on And he said something to the effect of, and correct me if I've got this quote wrong, Right. Yes. And to not attach a person to their ideas and to recognize that people often adopt faulty ideas of being incorrect, probably we shouldn't be listening to you. If you have a track record

1:57:26 Yeah. you discover where it predicts things incorrectly, it gets better over time. It almost doesn't Whereas as soon as you realize that you're wrong, getting on the right side of that issue, Yeah. Right. as if they're a part of you as a human being. right? This is where things go wrong. This is historically where people dehumanize each other that road and reversing course. But even if there's no example, we have no choice, right?

2:02:05 which doesn't hold our values, right, is explicitly racist, right? We don't want to with no recognition about the people that from March or whenever they got infected of 2020 Right. and you see it as if all the time and you see it like as if people For whatever reason, you can come up... I mean, everybody wants to go to Nazi Germany. and it's disturbing as fuck.

2:05:28 And you might imagine that it's only those people who belong to that tribe who are making any sort by what we were seeing in the mainstream media and on Twitter and such. A lot of people who, But then how do we make those people feel that they can speak? and are very disturbed by this. And the real tragedy here, I mean, if you think back to the model I was talking about a little bit earlier, that effectively when there is no growth, people get antsy to figure out what they can substitute for it.

2:08:55 address this pandemic effectively at this point with what we have at our disposal. What we probably Fauci where he is. It's not going to come from the blue team. It is going to come from a recognition But take COVID and schools. So it's different in every state. The states that I'm paying attention to anyway, Right. So, you know, what then are schools for?

2:12:36 It's pretending. Putting a mask on little tiny children isn't going to have any effect on their linguistic development? And there's a lot of them think they did. And turns out, no. That's just happened. area of vaccination technology. He was a guest on Dark Horse. People can look up my discussion with him. It is many people regard it as a very good way to understand what he's saying because often he speaks about matters that are quite technical. And anyway, I did my best in that podcast to make it non-technical so that people could understand it. In any case, what he argued was that the fact of these vaccines being very narrowly

2:16:48 causes a breakthrough case is that the immunity that's been created is evaded by the pathogen. were very well honed, and he was making sense, and then the world that he predicted emerged. Technologically, that's remarkable, but they were not ready for prime time, and they have failed to produce lasting immunity. They have produced very narrow immunity. It does not compare to the

2:19:11 why we don't do that, but it is at least worth noting that were we to successfully manage it, It's industrial strength propaganda. So there is plenty of evidence. I know that many people have been led to believe, Well, probably it's got a function to it, and we can talk about what that function might be, we've arrived at godlike status now, Right? That's not going to work.

2:24:30 out what is worth your time. And I will say behind the scenes, there are groups of people Not publicly. be simple. And there are people out there who know better who are being marginalized. that paper wrote into it, this is a disease that transmits inside. And not to say, and we kept This is back when you still lived there. changing. As we warned that it would, we said, it doesn't seem to transmit outside. You should

2:29:12 if it could figure out outdoor transmission, that it would eventually discover that trick. doesn't seem to transmit outside, or at least didn't originally at night, means it's not just Right. were paying attention to what we were saying knew that very early, right? And then later on, there You have all kinds of places where economic forces have overwhelmed the structures that

2:32:51 you know, again, to go back, and we talk about this in the book, we already talked about it here, simple bit of messaging. So how do you encapsulate that and also get all the media to say that? Like Yeah, they're still not recommending vitamin D. I mean, I think I would just watch that parameter, right also here's what we don't know yeah you know that actually i i believe uh that that

2:36:02 somebody gets sick, it's very difficult for the pathogen to find a next victim because everybody's protected by something. world, even if these vaccines were really as good as we had been led to believe they were, And they also don't apply the same rules to themselves. So intelligent people don't want that, right? that people that enjoy being in positions of power also like using that power.

2:39:25 It is to at least many people who thought the adults were back and suddenly now realize that from having a reasonable choice because they only want things that they control, that was tweeted from that account. The account was simply an idea. Let's get people from both And that was the candidates who had won. a hashtag to trend. Not true. We actually did an internal

2:42:49 don't really have an alternative. And if one thing turns out to be true, it was that. What a bizarre point of contention that we have to deal with. that you had some sort of mechanized bot-type situation No, I don't even think it's that coherent. for banning it wasn't true, because the real point was, well, people reported it, be so verbose on Facebook and Facebook. I just never got into Facebook. I, I, I'd read some of

2:46:14 But then it became this thing where it accentuates negativity in such a powerful way. I think Heather said that we have outstripped our capacity to contributing to our derangement, as are the There's too much coming at you. which make it impossible to displace one of these entities once it has taken over, right? Because And it didn't necessarily make sense.

2:50:07 How many people do you get on Odyssey? In other words, the network effects have created a set of servers that allows YouTube to deliver something in a way that is hard to bootstrap until the audience shows up. It was crazy. And is what kind of platform is Rumble? Okay. oh, Glenn Greenwald, you've managed to go join the Trumpers, right? And then they attack.

2:53:31 audience is actually glad to have them, you can say, oh, you're doing it for the money. So when a guy like that goes to a place like Rumble and it is willing to be uncensored with a guy like Glenn Greenwald. Yeah. in a world that is chaotic, I mean, in fact, you know, it's to the degree that it has an ideology. is if we integrate Actually, we have a little section in the book called, I think, something like,

2:56:08 And, you know, the point in part is about laying down so much evidence of childhood in the form of social media for people who are developing. I've ever had with somebody because he's going to do it. where you look at a pattern generated in a brain and infer what it means, right? That's very things we argue in the book is that human beings do this. We plug our minds into each other all

2:59:13 And in fact, there's even extraordinary evidence from post-encephalic babies. And therefore, the process of plugging them into each other in a physical way is a very, it's a difficult goal. And it seems impossible. I'll put it in the trash can. You know, the metaphor layer allowed the thing to integrate problems that we have with trying to understand people's sounds that they make and that this is done through this electronic interface and that they change what it means to communicate one of

3:02:50 And I think there would be a first. often do create their own language. And I don't know whether or not that panned Well, thank you. Yeah. Thanks, Joe. And your book's a great name, too. Tell People One More Time. September, glad you didn't listen. Dog Horse is a good name. Awesome. Thanks, Joe. of Modern Life. Thank you.