Joe Rogan Experience #1709 — Amanda Knox Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! He was abducted, allegedly, in Arizona when he was got hit with some kind of energy. They go back and he's gone. or some sort of propulsion system that they had He seemed like a very credible man people treat their ability to read other people like empirical evidence, that is a very troubling I was introduced to him through friends.

3:38 You sure he wasn't like going light? And you're like, hey man, that guy can't talk So my friend comes to me and he goes, That's so weird. was good like that i would meet someone who's full of shit about like oh that guy's full of shit but for instance. But like just in general, across the board, there is a tremendous amount of just And I've actually sent him some cases

6:54 It is scary. maybe she had sex with someone else that night, but this guy's the real rapist and we just didn't aren't just this prosecutor happens to be evil. And I think that's the more interesting problem, they have to abandon their initial bias. I was watching the Netflix documentary and I watched it two nights ago. It was the first But then I see him walking through the crime scene.

11:16 and I'm watching, like, you're then rudy what was his last name rudy good day that man that his dna was all over the room Never hooked up before. It's like, it's criminally bad. And then he came over the next day and they were hooking up. It only to me, it only seemed like that was even remotely plausible because they were so determined to convict you.

13:49 someone that he met five days ago. You never know. Well, okay. Maybe, but it was a really Did they have the ability to track where your phone was in relationship to a tower? That's usually something that men do when they're like if we're talking about what women do when they're committing Absolutely. Imagine you would be that way. You can't tell Which is fucking terrifying because there's no science whatsoever that anyone can predict

18:01 they're going to be like, of course not. But there is that impulse to, especially by authority, Just astoundingly stupid. They got convicted first? Italian legal system. Like, what you've done, you've abused your position of power. cops and they're all just like, they know each other and they look out for each other. So they convicted him of her rape because it was only his DNA that was found inside of her body.

21:17 and that you guys held her down. and Meredith looked down on her for being a sexually obsessed person. I mean, his initial idea was that I was involved somehow. Like that's, it's. There's, and you're 20. that I was super traumatized, that I had seen something so horrible that I must have just Honestly, I started to question my own sanity. but I was staying with him and I was afraid to be alone at home because a murder was on the loose.

25:30 I thought that the reason why they were yelling at me year before. So I was about as fluent as, I like to say I had about the fluency of a 10-year-old, So I wrote on this piece of paper. I'm so confused. They were yelling at me like I don't I don't I I was already in prison. the university and we both happened to pick a flyer and did you guys hang out a lot did you

28:40 We definitely did that. The moment you found out that she had been murdered, what was that like? Like, I don't know what's going on. oh, my God. Like it was outside of the house that someone was telling me she's her body was in I remember the first thought, and it's a guilty thought that I had. you're a suspect in a murder. Yeah. because they were just going to make a field day of it.

34:27 constructed was to further this scandal and to sell more papers like that that was the reason why of Italy, where he starts out as this media personality who is really, really known for just Well, that's probably what Trump wanted too. How is Joe Biden going to win? like Kamala, to run in his stead? Yeah. She withheld DNA evidence. That I knowfires. Cute. There's more than that. She withheld DNA evidence.

37:42 That's one of the reasons that knocked her down. that were either wrongfully convicted and is experiencing some sort of of course not he was the fucking president when obama was the president he was the fucking every time, whatever the fuck it is, Do you have, like, any sense of whether or not And that's how Clinton wound up being president. I've been warned by people who do understand it that it's going to be literally a job apocalypse, that you're going to have massive amounts of people out of work.

42:14 we'd have enough food. I remember that being a young boy thinking that way. I remember it. We benefited from welfare. giving people the opportunity to work hard because it's not as simple as everybody's on the same making sure you get things done and then trusting in the process that eventually that will lead to There's definitely income inequality.

45:14 That's all you get. is absolutely genuine value in hard work. What is the other aspect of that is dignity, though, My time that I could be spending with my kids agreed. I agreed with the $15 minimum wage. I think it probably should be like 20. I mean, And this is why you get, you know, $13 an hour or whatever it is. if things cost a little bit more

48:01 dealing with child labor yeah there's you know i had a friend of mine explaining to me the situation in the Congo where they, coal tan or coal train, coal tan, right? and it's a particular cave in Africa And millions and millions and millions of bats shit on these guys. That's true. I feel like I only know. Maybe they were just photographers studying bats i mean i don't know if there's that's true i feel like maybe they were just photographers maybe i'm getting it wrong

50:09 Maybe there have been more. It makes my heart break. one of the things that the bat lady It's called zoonotic spillover. There's lots of articles in the last year about it, though. No, nor am I. I don't know. i've misread the article the headline instead of as how covet first jumped i thought it was saying around them one of their spouses wound up dying and then in that same time

54:31 the sports event. Found something. It was horrible. like a fucking sales pitch for gain of function research doesn't it a little bit it does it does Yeah, that was an unfortunate moment for him. It's a very important time for composure. wishing people to be ostracized for their choices, even wishing people who have superior immunity, A vaccine is a little bit of the virus so that your body can build up.

58:24 I see. how many decades ago was that? What was the original SARS? But they've tested people to this a year and a half. So like how long does the immunity last? If you were one of the I think is when he got it. See if he can go get tested. Well, Awesome. About a month ago? I mean, more frequent than that, yeah. And even when, like, it all seemed to go away, like in July, we were doing shows in Vegas,

1:01:55 Well, why do we use condoms? And it was on the pillow that was found underneath her body. And they were like, ah, it's not relevant to this case. Because it couldn't possibly come from me. So what do they care? So yeah, no, it's even more horrible than that because it's, I get convicted, They overturned my acquittal, sent it back to the appellate court to try me again.

1:04:09 and you've been in jail for something you didn't do. that anyone has ever heard of me about So he's out. Because it sold newspapers. think that I would win. Because ultimately, people look at me and they think, well, this whole thing is probably her fault anyway. So I get, I get, there, it's interesting how, like I used to think that there were, there were two people, there were two kinds of people in regards to this case.

1:07:25 What? in his new book, Talking to Strangers, for how I'm obviously innocent. But he puts the explanatory burden of my wrongful conviction on me. And it's like, wow, way to just completely ignore all of the context of how false confessions even happen and how coercive my interrogation was just because you want to score a sort of like racial political

1:08:30 And they said, well, it's your fault that you were suspicious, basically. except that he knew me and was my alibi. Over five days. So are they doing 10 hours a day and they're just letting you home? Are they keeping you in custody? What are they? So I got to go like home. I didn't have a home anymore. I was staying with Raffaele and I had like the clothes on my back. Like I didn't have anything. I didn't have my computer. I didn't like all of my stuff was in my house, which was closed as a crime scene. I had my cell phone and the clothes on my back and they would let me go home. And in fact, like when they were

1:10:56 hanging out with just let her go and to his credit um he he did crack in that moment in the same way that I cracked in that moment. Where is he? And as soon as that happened, then he went on this burglarizing spree that lasted like the months leading up to Meredith's murder and like basically climaxed at Meredith's murder. And there has been some speculation by people that I mean, here's the weird screwy thing.

1:14:03 for Meredith's death. Well, of course, it's Rudy Gaudet. But like, people knew he had an M.O. He had never killed anyone yet, but he was doing all prosecution was bringing that said that I was somehow involved. Like we were like, this is The salacious Satan worshiping slut aspect of it. even when they think they're doing the right thing. Like that's the thing that really gets me.

1:17:06 Yeah. But that is a very telling moment. it really came down to him. There were a lot of people involved, but like, he was the one running Like that whatever vision of me that he had in his mind, that wasn't me. And that was not he was just coming in to sign my arrest warrant, like the arrest warrant to take me to prison. But what I can say is that that sentiment that you're pointing to,

1:21:57 but because I had had this existential crisis of understanding that the truth didn't matter They recover, they get over it and they have A lot of people don't come away from an experience where they've had everything taken away from them, me. So anything from doing as many sit-ups as I possibly could on my bunk. I got up to like 900 once, that's pretty goddamn understandable. But if I wanted to be actually stoic about it, actually

1:26:47 Like the psychological health and well-being of the person going through it doesn't really ultimately depend on their relationship with spirituality or their relationship with like, you know, even the prison conditions necessarily. That does matter. But I could. Nigerian. They were Romanian. They were foreigners. They were people who had been caught up, you know,

1:29:16 in that place is really, really visceral. And it doesn't manifest it in good ways. It's not like everyone's just like, And that, you know, people like on the there is the sort of fame angle, like everyone knew about my case was constantly talked in the news. she wanted to fight me in order for us to like get the emotions out and and like, you know,

1:31:57 That was my hustle, really, was writing people's letters for them. They would give us aria, so time to go outside in this little cement block area. And that, it was like that every day. I'll have to send you some panettone for Christmas. And in the meantime, someone was working on your defense. When you finally did get through all of it eight years later,

1:35:55 It was 2015, so it's been six years since it's been all over. And I miss that to this day. I miss having that extra little appliance in my bathroom. I have a podcast called Labyrinths, which I produce and host and write with my husband, Christopher. from that story i might write vo around that cut and chop the interview so that we got through some system. And no one would listen to her when she talked about how the way that the media and the

1:39:53 move on with her life. This was how many years after the rape? Oh this was immediately when she Like he and I came to an understanding and some kind of accountability on our own. she owed something to it. So when it's interesting that you do podcasts, Thank you. I'm anonymous student, Amanda Knox, that had nothing to do with this murder. nightmare scenario is that no matter how much good work I put out, no matter how hard I work

1:44:07 much a part of the media environment. I had like an early glimpse into that before it became like don't misunderstand me. I was raped when I was 16. And everything you talk about, about how it feels a lot of people's experiences. And so I like to find the common ground in those experiences and Obviously. That's one of the weird sort of beautiful takeaways from this experience.

1:47:59 Idaho Innocence Project reached out to my mom and said, hey, we have a conference every year where we invite you can actually live like you can set down any roots that you can make any friends that you can and that I would be afraid. And they immediately quashed that. They recognized exactly what I Like this idea that you were going to get out and that now you could go back to being anonymous Amanda Knox and just go to college when, when you realize that that was over

1:51:37 No one's putting me in jail anymore. were going to think of me Things are cool. We're stupid at 35. Yeah. People's true. We're stupid at 35. Yeah. And I think that it's important that, like, it's good to know oneself. versus who you are when you get fired like fuck like we vary so much from moment to moment day much. I can, I have like no perspective on that. And it's like, really? Haven't you felt like shit?

1:55:17 Yeah. The idea of being institutionalized scares me as much as anything in life. You don't get to have purpose. being lost, the purpose that, like the potential that is lost behind bars, and to let there be if she had someone to turn to? Something to turn to? And a lot of these people that I met in prison didn't have good choices. Do you know who she is?

2:00:05 Where is she at? She's potentially in danger. and was there for two years and then eventually escaped and got to South Korea and it's it is Everything about her is tiny. They would go and find grasshoppers, her mother offered herself to these rapists And she's talking to people who get therapy. And I'm like, that she had fallen upon, that she had been subject to,

2:03:49 very nice, friendly human being I mean, on so many levels, it's so fucked up. Right. determinism. Um, I, yeah, I guess. Um, yeah, I suppose so. Because like the thing that I keep a sense of like compassion for those who don't have, who don't demonstrate resilience, because insanely complex arrangement of genetics and experiences and nurture and nature and positive and negative and you should have went left but you went right and everything changed and that's

2:07:59 This swirl of emotions. Like are you absolutely free to make decisions? disregarding. because of one factor or another or to decide that you know they should have done better who is doing that pile on and is scoring those points, There's a part of them if they're auditing at all, person's activity the pile-on is a weak weak thing and it's it's it's from a person who's never been

2:12:06 like they just don't have either the intelligence or the resources to express their pain in any other way yes yeah there's a lot of that there's a lot of that where they haven't I get you. suck at that it's hard like how like i know a number of um wrongfully convicted people um who Like, fuck you. I don't do random, That's one of the major problems that people have, particularly like people that maybe weren't around

2:15:51 really, really hard. And it's hard work for the person who's across from you too. Like you have Yeah. important to me. If you genuinely want to understand why things happen to you, you have to do a lot of work and not just be angry at Especially with yourself. We can not be alone all the time. Yeah, I'm just like distracting myself. You know, and there's a lot of people that don't like that guy or that girl or that they,

2:18:52 Yeah. It's called Hunter Gatherer's Guide to the 21st Century. a lot of different environments, but that there's a certain amount that we can tolerate because they don't know how to deal with themselves. if you think about it, but also are we a little bit under threat all the time and are we a little bit like in survival mode Do you know about it, Amanda?

2:22:19 gotten more notoriety um and i so one of my phones is last year's phone and i don't fucking notice any at least the way that they're commercializing And that we're like a little caterpillar making a cocoon and we don't know why we're doing it. Oh, okay. So there's less potential for being hit by asteroids, which is a big factor. of that regular chimpanzees are fucking ruthless murderers right but bonobos they're just sexy

2:26:07 and then similar behavior to the worst humans. It's weird. So what are those? They kill babies. like many years. So the females breed with as many males as possible. they think that bears coming out of hibernation, one of the first things they look for is cubs to eat. So other bears either kill them in a fight or a bear finds them when they're cubs and kills them and eats them.

2:29:27 And the females don't like try to fight this? their babies. beings my concern with human beings is when i take logic and i take all the emotions and all constantly. And then we make these big leaps like the iPod or like the internet or like the printing It's the same amount of time. I'm really old. If you're not editing video and it's not saving you time in your work week, what is that obsession?

2:33:08 It fuels newer, greater objects. It's probably going to be we're going to be forced to merge with it because if- you're going to know we're going to be the Neanderthals. That one with the little tiny border. If you try to look at one of those things, if that was at the store, you'd fucking laugh at that. That stupid button. Get the fuck out of here with and shit. Look at that stupid thing on the right-hand side. That stupid button.

2:35:20 Well, right, because people weren't even using it to stream anything, right? And what is that used for? I don't know what we're doing. That's that's the number one thing. Because it can, you know, there have been times where those little fucking Amazon things that It's the beginning. It is a diverse cast. Right. Which is a way harder nut to crack. Right.

2:38:51 No, absolutely not. totally do it wouldn't we all do it if we could plug our consciousness in no i'd feel trapped whatever your consciousness is, Well, wouldn't it just be the same thing as the teleportation issue? isn't it a prisoner of that space as well? Well, I feel like, I mean, from what I've heard from people who have had psychedelic experiences,

2:41:27 I'm not wearing my wooden beads today. Yeah, I haven't had mushrooms yet, but I look forward to the day. I'm looking forward to the day. Take a little, though. Don't take a lot. No, no. People get crazy and want to dive into the ocean. One day. Yeah. I'm looking forward to the day. Yeah, I've done a microdose. Yes. And that's what I enjoyed from the experience that I was doing.

2:43:06 Yeah. It was, you know, there was moments where you're like. every word I've ever said on a podcast. That's true. one fucking word because of what it how it defines you to yourself no it's just mistakes like any mistake any mistake just it's it's the paradox right it's the it's the conundrum of the So it's like you have to find this ability and it's very difficult to do to stop thinking about things just like put aside

2:46:25 Yeah. I look for it you're asking why there's there's ways to feel good about life during this whole process though and that is Your heart will break. to do there's a time i have like this digital timer in my gym and it goes off and there's no and ultra marathons and triathlons and, and just things that are You just have to get through one more day.

2:50:56 were like, I'm just doing this. And that sort of prepared me in an interesting way to grapple with like, okay, I have a singularity of purpose today, and that is to live through prison. or in our history, And if you talk to people that are subsistence hunters But their life is natural. just the large numbers of people that are experiencing depression and just

2:53:30 getting fucked in the ass you're like what is this kid seeing like what murder car accidents Like you have a very different relationship with human suffering than someone who had never been exposed to that from a young age. or the form of whatever the fuck they're finding and that makes them constantly seeking to make an impact externally as opposed to internally.

2:56:15 talking to people across a cardboard cutout, a version of myself, I recognize the immense It's not, you know, it's listen. That's, that's what I feel like I'm really good at. Well, I think you have a unique perspective on this. I think what you're saying, I'm sure resonates with a lot of people and it certainly resonates with me. If you want to make the world

2:59:48 I know how to handle this now yeah and that's the grueling grinding process of improving as a human right it's like it's this constant reevaluation and you know two steps forward one step back and They have a fucking fake name on a screen and they're saying something cruel to you We have? Yeah. Wow. Okay. Cool. You have a conversation with someone. We haven't even table and just have we've been talking for over three hours we have yeah wow okay cool so it's

3:02:20 you know sometimes but i don't read anything about me. I just read other people's tweets sometimes. just, I do too much of this. This gives me faith in humans. These kind of conversations that you to constantly be in conversation digitally? I don't know. It's hard. I mean, completely Like if you have fuck you money and you don't say fuck you, Okay.

3:05:06 Without getting crap. Thank you. Appreciate it. But my point is about sweet setup. As a podcaster, I have to say I'm super jelly. Oh, cool. Thank you. can just. No. And most people that are in the podcast world or in entertainment or anything You could definitely get into that. I don't get to go and just be a man in oxen and let my, if I hadn't suffered?

3:08:25 Because you've, you know, you're, there's so many eyes on you. And what's funny is like I'm not actually familiar with her as a comedian. She's just like, like you know like the pressure She's like a big sister and I've never had a big sister. I got to get that surgically repaired. So shout out to Whitney. KnoxRobinson.com. Amama. Yeah. Thank you.