Joe Rogan Experience #1718 — Dr. Sanjay Gupta Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I hadn't been to Austin in some time, and it's changed in a really good way. A few months ago, it was pretty rough with the tents and all the homelessness stuff, I think I saw it sometimes when I visited those cities, maybe, when I was a kid, but it wasn't a thing. I'm in Atlanta. I'm not from there, but we moved there, uh, about 20 years ago now,

2:14 So it's good. And I feel like there's a conversation to be had. You know, it's interesting times, gets what I'm saying. They hear it. They've heard Well, does that surprise you? That doesn't surprise you. on chemotherapy, many people with, you know, some serious ailments, marijuana can be very beneficial. Well, look, I appreciate that. were basically the hypothesis was, where's the harm here? Show me the harm, right? The hypothesis

6:46 Then I started looking in other countries and some really good research out of places like Israel in particular. And it seemed to work really well in kids who did not respond to existing seizure drugs, which was kind of amazing to me. And that's when I said, you know, there's something here. or not agree with you that's beside the point you should have done this or

9:46 Some serious bourbon here. It's a longstanding tradition for people to drink alcohol socially. It's not good for some people maybe with possible schizophrenic tendencies. I really do. If you think about the way alcohol affects the brain, very different than the way obviously, people have been saying this for a sort of assassination for a while, the demonization came about right at the invention of the decorticator. A decorticator was a device

13:11 hemp the new billion dollar crop Pharmaceuticals and nylon. So nobody knew what marijuana was when they started printing this. from this substance being sort of really suppressed, I thought was I mean, if the press is owned by somebody who is sort of using this for their own personal Yeah. I could see the appeal of it. I really could. I did get the sense of paranoia that people often talk about. And I did not know if it's my own personal thing, like I'm bringing too much baggage to it. I did get the sense of paranoia

16:15 and anxiety relieving. you'd like to get your life to a place where when you get really high, you don't feel bad. you had Michael Pollan on, I saw a while ago. I still have, you know, I had that paranoia, and it really kind of bothered me. I did not try the edibles. It's not really active in the smoking it, Yeah, they're tripping balls. Watching the earth through a different dimension

19:41 responsible for those you you and uh you and el and Elon doing that, everyone has talked about that. What about, I mean, when you, very good, or I don't think it's going to sound very smart, or whatever it might be, and it never diminish your you know your viewpoint because oh but he said this and right look at that you can I'm pretty good, I think, at saying I don't know when I don't know.

22:29 are increasingly perceived as arrogant. And I was, that bothered me. I was, I found that jarring billions of people, you have millions, if not billions of opinions that are coming your way. I don't mean to pick on her, that. And unfortunately it does the opposite of what it's intended. It's intended to sort of legitimate questions, but I think there's also an aspect of playing a little game, trying to say

25:40 It's not a good way to communicate, right? It was pretty funny watching these poor people just having to deal with answering the press that were freaking out about the shit that Trump would say. right? And they don't have to I think the question is, when people raise these issues, are they trying to start shit or are they actually having a legitimate question?

28:00 And I said, oh, yeah, well, there was some news reports about clotting. I can see why you'd think that way. You didn't really see it in the mRNA vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna. to be like SARS. I remember SARS back in 2003. This is going to behave like that. So you How old is he? they, uh, like this is the hill I'm going to die on. And as far as vaccines, they're not those

30:58 reason chaos is the the metric as you've talked about on your podcast. But this guy, he wants to do it. think there's a few reasons first of all they have children yeah like how old you know i mean i think Yep. That was a bad flu. But, I mean, the conversation about children, let's just stay on this one for a bit. COVID itself. But for children immediately upon receiving a vaccine?

34:15 shot, it went closer to six, 5.8 per million myocarditis rates. So still very low, but a really frightening thing. If it responds a lot in someone with a really healthy immune system, Well, I don't know that we can say the person will be fine if they get COVID, Joe. You look like you're strong as an ox. I just feel like we define, like, I think we're allowed to have a nuanced conversation about this. We measure things in terms of life and death. And I get that. I mean,

37:22 But how is it doing that? A cold wouldn't just cause isolated loss of smell. Flu wouldn't even do that. And then so many people developing My children got through it. their own lifestyle choices? Is that what the consequences are coming from? Or is it coming admitted to the icu because she was she had some sort of a cardiorespiratory issue from the vaccine

39:59 have lost friends and loved ones to being vaccinated. I did not know about the 19 year old who needed a heart transplant. No, I mean, the long haulers thing, when I was mentioning the COVID naps, that was just an example. There's a lot about this virus I still don't understand. people who say, look, in the end, I just don't think it's worth it for my kids. What I would say is that, you know, we, if you're concerned about a specific issue like myocarditis, look at

43:17 and two of them in the hospital who I think they were both vaccinated. according to this new data that's coming out, eight times less likely to get infected This is within what time period of the vaccine, right? to get infected. unvaccinated. So who are the 5%? Is that real? It's different in different places, hospital with COVID, 90 percent plus were unvaccinated.

47:01 across the board recommendation for everyone to get boosters. They don't think the data is there to sort of support that yet. It's not good. Right. recommendations to the country on something like this, you've got to justify it. You've got to explain it. It can't feel too the discussion because they were surprised when suddenly the White House Coronavirus Task Force was saying boosters. And so some of these folks

50:07 He could get really sick and might need to be hospitalized or even die. But right now, I feel like the vaccine because you feel like your immune system is strong enough to handle it, why is that not okay for I realize that I as a vaccine person- we only had, you know, we really started only vaccinating, you know, this, you know, December, and younger people, and is there a right interval for that? Is it six months?

53:42 and what does it mean 10 years from now or five years from now, whatever. Just get them out there, put them out there. You could make the case that these are some we can talk about that we can but i would i still want to talk about people that are vulnerable It was just at this celebration a couple of weeks ago. I'm 51. that if treated correctly, they think that the child probably has a better chance even than you

56:53 That is the exact same feeling that people have about vaccinating their children. It is. It's not impossible. Well, are you suggesting I get boosted? I know that you're vaccinating hundreds of millions of people in this country alone. First of all, they can get sick, even if they don't die. They can happen. that study where it says young boys more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine than

1:00:51 Boyd's more at risk from Pfizer jab side effect than COVID study suggested. A lot of the kids who got myocarditis after the vaccine did not end up in the hospital. we have four to six times. I think, you know, like if you were to ask the question, how likely are you to end up are four to six times more likely to be diagnosed with vaccine-related myocarditis

1:03:20 That would make more people hospitalized with COVID. Your example falls the wrong way. So what I'm saying is that most of the people who got myocarditis did not need to go to the hospital, is what I'm saying. But it doesn't say that they're not hospitalized with myocarditis. But it says it right there. 86% of the boys affected by vaccine-related myocarditis required some hospital care.

1:04:24 What is the likelihood- The risk-reward proposition there is very clear. for young boys age 12 to 15 is far more likely But you're saying it, but you're ignoring the science Okay, put that up again. Right, right, right. So you catching an infection of a highly novel virus, which is a real thing, you're a healthy guy and because you've been vaccinated. So you catching an infection of a highly novel virus, which is a real thing.

1:06:45 Yes. But if I tell you I'm eight times less likely to get infected. We know who the 5% are. It's like we can't – I'm not saying 100%. why would you want to vaccinate young people if the risk of being vaccine injured is four to six Yeah. I think they said asymptomatic spread accounted for more than 50% of the spread, You're coughing and you're sneezing and that sort of stuff.

1:10:41 That's the thing. I am going to look at that study, not extinguish it completely. not sure. I think that was the Guardian newspaper. I've looked up a bunch of studies on myocarditis I've had people, I mean, they don't feel well. attacks all right no excuse me heart attack and two strokes were they young guy were they pretty muscle than to hitting a vein or a blood vessel? Or is it just dumb luck?

1:14:30 Because that study on the spike protein that they did at the Salk Institute, I'm sure you're aware of that, that showed the spike protein is responsible for the deterioration of blood vessels. telling your muscle cells to make some of the spike protein. Right. And then your body reacts to the spike protein it just made by creating antibodies, these

1:15:51 It could be a concern if you're injecting this directly into the bloodstream, I don't, I don't, Do you not trust the company? Yeah. I got to be skeptical of those. And they're big companies and they're for profit. What was it, Jamie? Why is cosmetic in there? You know, it reminds you a little bit of like Tamiflu that we talked about the flu. 7%. Look, let me put it to you like this.

1:19:40 so I'm 99.5% good, right? What's the big deal? I mean, it's the same objective data and the antibodies and now they're being forced to either get vaccinated or they get fired. than the immunity that's imparted by the vaccine. There's evidence of immunity. So, I mean, this is We got to see your immunity. Yeah, you can see the lines. It's sad because you're in the middle of a pandemic and you're firing healthcare workers

1:22:43 hospital, you go and get the over-the-counter tests, and she'll be the first to tell you. It's not hard to do. For sure. You do? is that if you think about the purpose of an antigen test, Okay. People haven't known how to use them. Is it the testing is obviously testing you to see if you have the virus. You know what I think you should do? targets one specific protein, right?

1:26:29 I will see your recommendation. No. Thank you. They're lying at your network about people taking human drugs versus drugs for veterinary They're unfavorably framing it as veterinary medicine. Yeah, a drug that has been shown to stop viral replication in vitro. that they know they're lying? Hang on. taking it the veterinary medication. And you're not,

1:29:30 for out and out lied, just outright lied about me taking horse dewormer? But they did it with such glee. Yes, they did. Does she have glee? Turns out I got COVID. Pause. It can be used for humans. And they lied. Well, I'm not a lawyer. Well, I didn't watch her. and working out six days later. I'm glad you're glad. What are they telling us about Syria? What are they telling us about Syria?

1:32:38 that they can be very effective for one thing, but not as effective for something else or not What is the country in India? Well, there was two things. I looked at that study pretty carefully. I have relatives who And I even remember like really looking carefully at the dates. My uncle died during that spring surge of COVID. With 230 million people knocked it down, almost nothing.

1:35:20 They find in these studies, and I looked at PR studies as well. I looked at the meta-analysis. Like, isn't it something they use for dengue and a few other viruses? not that's not a good way to have portrayed that to you but what i'm saying talk to anybody over what it's done with river blindness. I think the question is, is it effective for COVID?

1:37:36 And we know dexamethasone can be effective for people who have COVID in terms of preventing which is how the steroids seem to work. I want to go back to why you would suggest that I get He's been exposed twice. Like, we saw a significant change in his antibodies. I got to tell you, like when I came here for the podcast, I wasn't exactly sure what to expect, but it was pretty locked down.

1:39:50 A JRE mask. It's got your face on it. Did you see that? I didn't. Son of a I think what happens is that, again, people expect a certain level of certainty in saying how effective they are or they're going to be a panacea for things. And then he uses one of them vapes that blows out all the smoke. And he blows right through them and it comes out the side. He's like this is what's happening if you this. Yeah. And then he uses one of them vapes that blows out all the smoke.

1:41:14 But the surgical mask's better. Yeah. Look at that. I mean, right. I just like, I don't, you know. You know, I think that the source control, meaning that is this, am I wearing this mask? Can I see the difference between them? I have a normal-sized face, Joe. I don't know what it is. What about them dudes who wear bandanas like they're robbing an old West Bank?

1:43:54 That's not doing anything. because I see certain people, Those people are still around. But I know people that have gotten sick while wearing a mask. Not even a little bit. I think that guy, you know, I think he's hamming it up a little bit. It's still a fire burning. As bad as Delta so Delta, but I thought the lambda was a dish was a really than that one.

1:46:39 was just being dumb. to walk through the crowd to get back to the, to the green room. So you're in a high five and How do you do it, man? No problem. But then when I got home, I was in my house. So did you know you had it at that point? I was hoping I was just going to recover and be fine. Yeah. So I was correct. getting healthy will prevent a lot of things, like heart disease, which kills way more people than any disease.

1:50:48 metabolic health is poor. And that's one of the reasons why their bodies in decline. When you're because those are the things constant state of decay yeah i i look joe i 100 agree with you i spent a lot of time Why are they saying? It's a much- And most of that is lifestyle. and making sure they had healthy food That's what gets in the way. I mean, wealthier countries, but is it wealthier people in those countries that are getting hit

1:55:54 sticking around longer in people like that. Overall, but the issue is not the virus, He's a I waited until I was negative, And I know another guy who was a cyclist who kind of did the same thing. Well, I mean, it's like any other illness. I mean, two years and this exposed just how much these poor health conditions can, you know, affect us in the short term.

1:58:25 Have a little sip? Is that why you got it? No, I'm kidding. I think so. They were like, what? I was You don't? And it's not that people don't figure out very quickly that it's a lie. stories for what they are. I think that for the most part, that's what CNN does. I think that for the most part, that's what Fox News does. But when we get ideologically conflicted and distort these narratives in order to sell clicks, in order to get people to tune in, like that to me is not just dangerous, but foolhardy.

2:02:02 about this. I think not that I want to bring this up again, you know, the whole ivermectin thing, I like you. Yeah. You party with those dudes? There's no excuse. It's just a lie. That was insulting. I almost got it. Can you come on Monday? Because I guess whatever the CDC requirements are going to have to come to the hospital. Can you come on Monday?

2:04:36 Then I got concerned and then I had another friend who had a very bad adverse reaction not submitted? And I do know that some of of the general population and having therapeutics in place. I think we should improve the general health of the population. Well, Joe, I know, you're making fun of one of them right behind me. I'm always taking vitamins. And I got over it fairly quickly, relatively speaking.

2:08:15 yeah, older people, fat people. I think a lot of those folks. My real concern is this urge to Thankfully, it's really small numbers, period. it's not just me reporting like I go to Haiti Do you like it? your anxiety a little bit right yeah smooth yeah so so we we made the decision based on the risk So I think this virus is here to stay, but it will be a more inconsequential virus.

2:10:46 But eventually it starts to really wither down. Yeah, this is an interesting point. But I think ultimately, if you just slow down the spread, pandemic were less likely to get away with it with Delta. Yeah. And I think that was me because exertion i felt a diminished capacity for work like when i was doing workouts i was like god i But no stress, no strain.

2:14:15 Are they all okay? feel like that part of your life's not gonna change that uh probably not it's Is that what it is? this one point I will make. You're a vaccine salesman. Are you working for Pfizer? I'm not a Right. This guy's our test subject. He got exposed again, but he was- Some countries are doing this. I don't know how long it lasts. I got you, bro.

2:17:12 So if I said, and then you're going to ask me how I know, which I get, but if I said Good luck. You know, it strikes me that so many people are moving towards these really abbreviated things like there was Quibi. I don't feel like you get to know someone until like an hour into talking to them. And then we talked on the phone. And a lot of people listen to you, Joe.

2:19:27 And and even that 21 year old thing that made all the 21 year old guests you had on the show or no, it was a friend of yours. Yeah. idea. That's a problem. I've had quite a few friends that were sick and weren't sure if they And then I found other places that said that the doctors didn't know exactly why she had that. Because you have both. It's, I mean, it's a sad, sad story.

2:22:26 she would have died from covid you i mean a fucking infinitesimally small chance i think when health-wise. No, I get that. I think that sometimes people will, because a lot of people is because I don't have a filter. When you were talking to me right here, if you and I were at a That's, we don't have enough of that overall in society. want to listen, you can listen. But my advice to you is to not take my advice.

2:25:11 You're the only person on CNN that just calls it ivermectin. I know, I know. Can I just tell you, I'm sorry that I brought this up again. How do you say that? But is it a county? I'm sorry. I think it's a region or a state, I think of it as well. India is a country right obviously, but the the count is it a county? Yeah, no, I looked at that Both my parents got vaccinated and it was nothing.

2:27:46 It's not, you know, there's still a clinical trial I don't. So I think what I was taking was 18 milligrams. We're going to need to know at that dosing, which is probably going to be higher dosing than treating, you know, river blindness and things like that. So if you're trying to replicate that in the body, But for the most part, it has a lot of data behind it that shows that it is safe and that it's effective in terms of keeping people from

2:30:01 I totally agree. and she's very fit and young, We've had an incredible amount of people take it over a short period of time, but very understudied in terms of long-term consequences. Would you agree to that? The only way you can study long-term is with the passage of time, but very understudied in terms of long-term consequences. Would you agree to that?

2:31:07 You know, I've heard a 0.5% mortality rate roughly. I said had an adverse reaction. Okay. Did I say died? I didn't say died, did vaccine? No, no, no, no, no. Oh. I said had an adverse reaction. Very bad reactions. that are vaccinated. I'm aware this is very, very rare. Yeah. So so I just you know, I know, like an yeah really a therapeutic every year for this how often do people get hepatitis boosters i'm just saying they may get

2:33:43 So you have like the ultimate control. I feel like this conversation, somehow you're trying to convince me of something and I'm I have better immunity than you. Barely visible. I thought you meant they were really Right. People who have been vaccinated who die of COVID are rare, but they're numerous. The people who Are they fat? What? State champ in Massachusettsachusetts yeah massachusetts

2:36:51 Like there was something about it. Yeah. Yeah. I am not going to do it drooling on myself. vaccine. I don't want you to get a third vaccine. I want you to get COVID. No, you don't. I don't want you to get the vaccine. I want you to get COVID. Yeah. No, you don't. You don't. I think you'd be fine. Well, listen, listen, we know about But you don't know.

2:39:36 Most of the martial arts guys? And I understand that the glory that these people receive, most of them will suffer. Most of them take too much damage. Most of them will suffer. Most of them. You know, there's a very big difference entertain others. You can choose not to, but this is why I draw the distinction. I feel like there's he's been so good at it is because first of all, he's very intelligent and he recognized

2:42:44 He's fine and he still maintains his physical ability. And if you go over his career with a fine tooth comb, he's really only been hit hard understanding of movement and boxing and like what what happens when you do this and then I do that and then what's your natural? he's a part of like an incredible boxing lineage. But I mean, he's 50 and 0. right? The difference I think is the collective on this. Like how, what is our obligation to the

2:45:18 You didn't get a copy of it? war c no we didn't get a book do you have a picture of it there it is there it is look at you handsome the only thing. I mean, you're going to keep checking your antibodies, and so you'll probably It's just showed up every single time. Yeah. And some of your healthier ones have gotten it, right? I've only had one friend

2:47:52 be the vaccine, that you'd probably have really long lasting protection. Right. one had a severe reaction. started going to saying, hey, look, you've been primed already because you had it. It's not clear at this time. You're giving him the Australian accent. There's no Joe, I think just statistically, you know, most pathogens like this have been natural spread over

2:51:40 They didn't allow people into the lab. They waited a long time before they actually alerted the world on this so it's it's it's concerning which is I don't know sometimes what to do with this. It's highly suspicious. I think of this And I said, Peter, this is not making sense. Well, the entire database went down. They were worried about hacking, and so that's why they took it down. I said, if it was a public database, why

2:55:03 That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Gain-of-function research is taking a virus. I think the NIH is clearly funding EcoHealth Alliance and EcoHealth Alliance is clearly giving grants to Wuhan Institute of Virology. Here's how they answer the question when I asked them, And make it contagious to humans. more contagious to people? The answer would be yes. Yeah. Were they doing experiments that could

2:58:10 where Christian Anderson raised this concern. He subsequently wrote a paper saying, hey, It's so freaking antagonistic. I feel like doing it from a far distance, I like that. I think he likes a lot of attention. but I think when you saw his emails, did you get concerned that he possibly knew that they were maybe responsible? He went crazy on it. He's very left-wing leaning, as am I, but he is very honest.

3:01:43 Universal basic income. I think there's a certain amount of discussion to be had about all these topics, but my parents were hippies drives me crazy about the left this idea of like weaponizing victimhood and making it so that people are excited about And it sounds like you agree with those things. And I think their brains aren't even formed yet. Yeah, it's madness.

3:05:06 From CNN, because they're fucking lying. We've been three hours in, right? I know, but I wouldn't give it during the podcast. it added about another case per million. And the second shot added around 5.8, around six cases There could be. What is certain in life? Did you? Yeah, I just felt like, you know, Joe Rogan's a brawler. He's going to go. I very little. I felt like it was going to be more. Did you?

3:07:12 I just look like a douchebag. I just, I I'm not dogmatic. I respect you as well and I like how you think too. Have me back. Goodbye. Goodbye.