Joe Rogan Experience #1724 — Jewel Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. I'm sure it's habit. It's odd. So like if I'm tuning my guitar, I hear wah, wah, wah, wah, or wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. because you're, you're modulating air. That's part of what you're doing. I would imagine the way you hear things is different too. And so much information gets communicated beyond pure tone that I've always found that so interesting about music.

3:23 And there's a documentary about the cult And this was a place I was going to buy and convert to a comedy club. It's resolvable, but it wasn't resolved. the waco guy didn't he do both both. He had a little bit of music. It's a crazy story. And unfortunately for people that have heard this before, I'm going to just give Jewel had given him an acid in prison as a part of these studies.

6:16 Yes. So these guys would come in to try to have sex, Oh, that makes me sad. I was having a conversation with a good friend of mine today about that, where he was telling Like how many of those are there? And I don't know why you would want it anyway. It just doesn't pay good enough. You're Sure? interesting because they tried to kill that motherfucker i don't doubt it i bet they got

11:31 even how to describe what happened with my mom. That's crazy. It's true. You know, I was trying to get the details through this text. and like how do a bunch of hillbillies in alaska have caa calling us like in two hours they had no But it was such a foreign thing that it's been nice having the show out. And so he convinced all these people, philosophers, painters,

14:30 Yeah, right. hiking over Harding glacial ice field with except my grandmother whose father had come to America during World War cash and just said, this is so you don't ever have to rely on a man, which is to me so sweet. How long did that take? No, 36? And then they just carved a living out of, like, legit raw wilderness. But that's all they bought was like maybe flour, salt and sugar.

17:35 Nobody came? Whoa. You know, it turned into a little town. So there was a school eventually. They were originally homeschooled. But Homer turned into a city. You know, it turned into a little town. Now, mind you, my dad never told me this story for years and years. point with little crumbs of cheese everywhere. And so my grandmother takes the cat, chops its head off, cuts it open, grabs the cheese out, cooks the cat and serves it with the cheese sauce.

19:43 butcher cattle like we had a few cattle. We're accustomed to just being able to go to a store and people are so disconnected He sent me a photo of his store Like what, You know, It wasn't just hunting hoo-ha-ha. together. So I feel like when we went from a village and started to urbanize, we stopped care turned into this building over there and they took care of our bodies. And then

22:41 drop. And I was in a relationship with it. I value it. And that to me is one of the saddest things is when you're saying people don't know where their food comes. world. They didn't evolve for fluorescent lighting and cubicles and traffic and all the things, And when we take into account people's psychology and the needs and our human reward systems and all

25:13 It's really just because we've invented some really cool shit that has some purposes. I was adopted by these uncles when I was like 15. things. And no, they didn't have a shot at chickenpox and all the crappy shit that we exposed them to. But there's so much wisdom in that tradition and in many indigenous traditions at all? We just don't live in a society that values heartful decisions, but I don't see how

27:44 And technology exists and that's how we found each other it's not insurmountable and technology exists. it does work that way. It's just an inanimate object. is a common denominator and it comes down to mental, for lack of a better word, but we're not doing well. And when we're ill, when we're emotionally ill, we'll You know, like we are built to handle adversity.

29:40 was possible. Well, you're also, I mean, coming from a homestead, that's uniquely qualifies you to have this diversity of skills, right? Because like, It was just everywhere. No we never did. and it was that did you guys ever get giardia or anything from the water no never that's uh it gave me a tremendous amount of advantages as far as I was raised in an environment where it

31:50 built their own homes. Like that's just how I was raised, which was a huge advantage. And I think And it was getting handed generation to generation. That's crazy. statistically, I'm going to end up in an abusive relationship on drugs, drinking, to do things that were very difficult to know that you're capable of doing those things. Like It's like I can either live in a

35:00 You know, I'd make money that way. But I think also like I was lucky I had a teacher that exposed me to like Greek philosophy. And that's how I knew the idea of nature versus nurture. And that idea got me thinking like, wait a minute, what is my nurture? And then I was like, wait a minute, it's horrible. So did you get these ideas from specific books? Like, were you reading something? Did you have a mentor?

36:54 was an eighth grade or something. And then I realized if I asked myself a question, And I found it fascinating and it made me love it. And then the other thing was not times because I just knew all I had to do is wait for the tide to come back in. And I would just sit face of a mountain, in the face of nature, the face of the stars. can't couldn't believe it how can i go on? This this kind of pain is unstoppable. Like this is unsustainable. You can't imagine living your life with this heartbreak. And then like a month later, I was like, who gives a fuck? Wow. Thank God I didn't like marry her or something or have children with her or something. But in the moment, it's so hard to see, so hard to see outside of it.

40:57 But when I was homeless, I was stealing a lot, like a lot. And it was also just a great distraction. the first thing I remembered was this quote that was attributed to Buddha that said happiness are doing because it's like thought cooled down into action because your hands are just obeying and I didn't even realize it until I sat down. concern was safety, which was right now. And if I couldn't even show up right now to advocate for

44:32 And a lot of us are so hurt and have so much pain that we're not conscious enough of that we can actually be intentional and get ourselves off sort of the merry-go-round of our programming and set ourselves on a new course. And that was my goal. I wanted to get off of my programming and out of control in your life. And so I realized I couldn't affect the first part. Being homeless was

46:15 think this was like overnight aha like it took months for me to get to this And so I started to keep track. Every time I noticed I was tight, you know, I'd notice from my body language, like I was sitting like this. I rock a lot when I get anxious. I kind of don't And so that was just my motivation. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. That thing could just, that one sentence for some reason

48:44 You can only be in one at a time. And so one of the best like hacks to get present is curiosity and observation. And I was suddenly grateful for myself, which was weird because, you know, I had a lot of self-loathing position that you're in in life that you just can't take it, you just want out? a different outcome, you have to do something different. So I was very action oriented because

51:39 And then you just have to not give up and you have to keep doing it. Or not. you're a really interesting person like how do you get to be a really interesting person you gotta I don't want to say wouldn't be possible because everybody's got their own trials and tribulations Oh. Wait till we keep going. You can get things, you can get information from books,

55:45 is like, you know, for a kid like me, there wasn't a safety net, right? I didn't have the family like what if you go to your therapist and you just don't feel better and your life doesn't change? And so I formed a youth foundation And it is like it's medicine. what it looks like on the other side of suicide ideation you know what is the name of this

58:16 would he let me take a dance class? raise 10 grand in very little time, like a month. And three women in dying to get out, apparently. really hooked me up and I earned $10,000 that night. The whole town basically like came together to send me off, which was really neat. And so off I go to school. I'm a feral animal at this point. Like I'm not And then a teacher rushes out to get me and she goes, you need to go to the dean's office. And I'm like, what did I? I mean, I haven't even figured out what dorm I'm in or anything. And so I go into the dean's office. He goes, where are you from? And I was like, Homer, Alaska. He's like, why do you have a knife on your belt?

1:01:12 It's handy. Yeah. And I was in a, you know, like I had a, I mean, I clearly wasn't trying to be, I was an easy read. And so he was just like, give me your knife. He like shook his head. He was like, oh my God. He's like, where are your parents? I'm like, about that. And so he gave me a job like as a model for the art class, fully clothed. That is what I did.

1:02:49 So and then you go from there. And my dad wrote original songs. You're going to be great to fuck when you're older. Yeah. I'm still not sure what that means. Maybe it's like a blowjob joke. Like I don't Yep. Mormons are everywhere. And so it seems like your dad has always had this sort of showbiz thing they thought they'd be famous. It was just, it was entertainment. They didn't have a radio.

1:06:56 pain as it came like like that's when I promised I would never drink or do drugs it was just like them come out of it on the other end uh for the better it's probably 10 or something you know with your health in terms of like your physical health, you move forward and you kind of progress We forgot how to transmute pain into something that's useful and becomes nourishing.

1:10:34 Because if you keep treating the pain further down the domino line, it doesn't matter because Exercise, you know, meditate, have to do exercise you know meditate have conversations An emotional language is immense. language. And we've lost that. Like our culture has just lost it and we should be being taught Like we're taught dental hygiene, Yeah. Because in the last 18 years, I've been like really just refining like how do I help these other kids that don't have traditional support systems?

1:14:08 they're going to show up with more bandwidth at work. and that I think people are going to show up at work with a lot more bandwidth, creativity, resiliency, or anxiety and emotional health fitness, give them training and education in that. Make a gym for their employees so that they can have a place to exercise because you know, the city. Like we got to find

1:16:14 this and I got to that, but it's not what people want. It's just not, it's not natural. It's not them. It's almost impossible. Oh, Like there's one. It's too hard to make it. but people will tell you that that path is almost impossible. and then you're going to follow this groove and this is how you do it. Change is hard. but change is hard and the reason

1:19:53 because it's familiar or even if you're on a good path a lot of times people That's like my dad. Resiliency is just a new tool. people have enough personal sovereignty to teach it. basically like every other type of person, every other they're going to just become incredibly compromised. And then they start phoning in and What would that look like?

1:23:28 to help people get out of their, their rut. But I recognized as a 16 year old boy, I was looking at and it's amazing that they help people in that way. like I'm only interested in psychology day a week yeah you know and then seven days a week, hand out flowers. Totally. happy people all the time, like people imitate their atmosphere. You get nourished by the kind

1:26:12 are trained to consume toxicity poison yeah poison relationships you know i call it emotional That one simple question, if people will answer those two little questions, can change your life. Those just those two things. And bad patterns. and that's what retraining that nobody's really figured out how to create a system out of it Like what causes someone to be so calm and so smooth?

1:29:16 And that's going to be their thing to bear. probably wasn't my nature it It was probably an acquired thing. because if you can observe them, They are real, but everything's real. So if I eat bad fish and I get food poisoning and I throw up, something's not wrong with me. away and keep at bay. And I started treating my anxiety like a friend. And I would sit down and

1:32:07 Your anxiety is a gift. like are you willing to do it because your life will get better if you stop consuming the things And that's what scares the shit out of me is that that solution of numbing yourself that's one of the fun things is their age is like when they don't sleep, they feel like crap. And I was like, I don't, nobody owes me anything you know and i'm like i remember looking

1:34:44 It's crazy now. There's a wall. But look at who you are like i don't think you would have the same um but they're not part of a community money buys you a type of fake autonomy and real autonomy too i saw him after my first record came out whoa Whoa. Yeah. I thanked him in my liner notes. And he just was like, hey man, I'm really sorry about that. Like, let's just say I was, it would have been easy to say, oh my God, I knew I'd get kicked out.

1:38:31 but I didn't want to do it. Ugh. i couldn't afford a doctor and so i would try to heal my own kidneys by researching food as medicine I did it. That's hilarious. And I was too sick to go anywhere else. and it was not my finest moment. It turns out I had sepsis. he didn't leverage me. So you developed a sort of working relationship with this guy like you would come to see him more than once.

1:41:36 Dr. Bodenstab. a grip on my panic attacks and figuring out like that dilated and contracted things, it was like, And just to keep pushing. What did you do? How did you get out of it? Like, I was like, this is not ideal. Like they wanted me to you to sing there. I was like, this is not ideal. You would get signed. I'll remember that so he started writing songs um and singing my own stuff I get on my friend's gig

1:44:31 I needed the money so badly. I was like, you are stealing from the people that are giving you a living. He didn't care. So like that was my home. And like, we'll try and make it together. out because I was so lonely. And I realized I never tell the truth. Like nobody knows the truth. It was amazing. recognized that these people were that something was changing

1:48:00 And I know that sounds superficial, but it wasn't because it was so authentically me. that that's a lot of change in six months yeah maybe a little more eight months but couldn't to this day it like gives me chills like they looked at me with like a certain look and it was like holy shit like this is different and they would stand out in this wasn't a big place, by the way.

1:50:42 It was like a little family in a way. And he came up to me afterwards. a hundred dollar car um so I get down to the radio station and I sing a song for him and we talk a chick down at this coffee shop and so all of a sudden there would be like these limousines pulling They'd, you know, all these limousines showing up. You don't have anybody speaking for you.

1:53:15 I did my homework. my head as an artist. I almost didn't sign my record deal because I had just figured out how terrified of doing it. So I made myself a promise that my number one job would still be to figure That is so crazy. Taking this money. So because under the artist category category I wanted to be an be successful or else you'll get dropped because you cost so much the label.

1:56:51 That's an amazing insight for a person Then you're rich. like to see what's how this plays out if you do it the wrong way. You structured the way you view reality in a way that could survive the ultimate test. What is this? Got too big. Probably 18. I make a lot of faces when my god am i having a seizure am i singing what's happening over there Then I got, you know, I paid rent and I moved my little brother in with me and my mom in

2:00:25 what I was doing at the height of Nirvana and Soundgarden you know it just was really hard it I looked where culture was and, you know, We're not happy. So even though culture like in all the radio gatekeepers were like, no grunges, everything from singing live for people. They wouldn't even let me in radio stations. I got kicked out of so many radio stations.

2:03:56 So it just took a long time. that there's an authenticity that comes through in music, in singing. I don't know what you're doing with your hair, but this is great. Like one song. He was like, we're done. The hairband world was all about like wigs and just platform shoes and whatever the fuck they were wearing. And they would play personas. like outliers. And that was definitely like me at that time. Like I was just, they were like, I mean,

2:07:30 And, you know, there's 600 acts on the label all competing for money, right, for marketing And I was like, eh, she cost $12 this month. like you yeah singing that and then yeah it doesn't fit yeah i remember that gig it was only on tour in the east coast and wanted me to open for him and I really wanted to open for Bob Dylan was on tour on the East Coast and wanted me to open for him.

2:09:57 Bob will not meet you. to see me, I get it. But if you want to go out in the lobby, you know, go out in the lobby, And I said, the security guard will hold your place for you. I'm opening for Bob Dylan. dressing room he'd go for my lyrics with me and be like hey what made you write that one what what I was starting to like get them and then Conan O'Brien put me on TV and that was it like thing

2:13:05 I did. That went on for a year? How old were you? That's fucking bananas. Because that would have been the time you'd be like this is a little too heavy. Yeah. Wow. You know, really practical. Like, Jewel, if you're saying happiness really is your number one job, you have If I'm not, what am I going to do about it? While I was also trying to create a real plan around my

2:16:39 following you. And so I realized during that two years where I didn't do anything at the height of my fame, song I wrote. and I started writing songs, street singing, So that became my first hit. going from being homeless to five years later being rich as fuck i never cared i liked being while you're recovering from being homeless and then you get insanely wealthy really quickly

2:20:02 And that means it's a 60 year plan. just the temptation and just the, also the chaos of Yeah, it was important. important like did you lay low like what did you do during those two years i think i met ty at the And fame just shattered all that. It was like seeing myself through funhouse mirrors. You're not supposed to go places and everyone knows you

2:24:31 Or you add some other stuff. What did you do? reignite the spark. And's sad it's sad to I know I was doing something really dangerous, but I would love singing. I love it so much. I really loved it. It was very compelling It's an illness of perfection. praised it's the story of pretty much every you know entertainer when people clap for me i feel figure out how to heal that thing from the inside otherwise i could be leveraged and manipulated

2:29:06 If I wanted to write a pop song, I wrote a pop song. Hell or high water. But when I look atittany you're just like i get it i mean that was a So it's funny. Yeah. and you're making me feel like Yeah. Yeah. Are we? My dad was taking us to Homer. with? And I was like, that is the dumbest, meanest question I've ever been asked in my life. Like, you're like, leave a message at the radio station. And so you'd call the radio station, say,

2:33:54 Like my dad was volatile, drunk. And if you look at that light bulb long enough and really focus, you can get it to dim. like it took that long to really figure out how to explain my mom. But my mom was really, and it made me feel good and looking back I'm like who says that to a kid whose dad's hitting That's how I ended up in San Diego. And I was like,

2:37:35 Did she take care of her heart issue? Your mom would sue you? back to alaska i went through this crazy experience being homeless i got signed i called her one day I was so lovesick for her. know, I felt owned, you know, like she wanted me. It felt like being claimed, I guess. So Yeah. Well, what did she do with it? anything so she just had access to your money yeah through these other people but i didn't know that

2:41:30 How? Poor baby. So you never went crazy. I never went crazy. And I was saving this money for this really possible it could be just I don't know there's people that can take care of that you know So she's just like a fucking crazy person. But she's alive. And then she wanted a half a million dollars. So I went to a manager named Irving Azoff But what did it feel like when you found out that all the money was gone and then you realized that your mom had ripped you off?

2:45:29 No, she just was like, no. her two, you know, right hands were there. This accountant and she was like, you've gone broke And that's how I started to figure it out. as much my deal, but she really liked it. Oh my God. That is so insane. I'm thinking about it now. So it's technically my home-ish, but it was in her name, and she had the title. about that. But I knew it was a risky thing. So now I'm like trying to make a record deal with

2:49:13 My mom has never spoken above a whisper. I was like, that hit a new level of like what I was dealing with. One of those true crime shows. Being truly rebellious when I moved out at 15 meant figuring out how to be happy. You have to really figure out how to recover. And thankfully, my hit at the time became a hit. And I didn't want to go to a therapist because my brain had been so fucked with.

2:52:49 No. And so much time passed, people actually forgot it was a gold statue. And so in a weird way, it was like this full circle to this nature versus nurture thing. It's just simpler to deal with. Yeah, quite a while. It's not there. more of an accomplishment or you know what it is it's relatively equal to the accomplishment of up as a 34 year old yeah

2:57:28 You know, like that metal rod. everyone's ultimate trust the most an eight-year-old is horrific just emotionally devastating and then to get her back you know living differently but whatever to me the quickest way to healing was cut your losses and move forward and that's She felt entitled to it. good musician and I'm very good at understanding the mechanics of change I understand it I

3:00:52 And it's important stuff to know. Particularly online now. But then you go, well, what the fuck have you ever done, man? You know, That takes a much more mechanical look what are these exercises? I explained to him and he was like, these actually do neurologically Yeah. So now what? addictions of when you tolerate the intolerable you get sick yeah you know and you have to stop

3:05:00 I hate my job, but I have a nice apartment. You know? But if you're willing to walk away, the Me Too movement of like, guys shouldn't be dicks in the workplace. They shouldn't be, especially raping compromise my humanity. where he would take all the young starlets into there. And then you hear about all these women and he would ruin their I might have the wrong woman,

3:08:57 You know before the internet before do you know who it is? Does it? people that have this ultimate power that are choosing people you and then you have these people that have this ultimate power that are choosing people and then you have these people that are the reason why they want this Soul crushing. And maybe 1%, if you're lucky, It was. knows yeah right and you're the boss and you have these people working under you or you're trying to

3:11:53 Yeah, and they all also needed it. Like you just want to be And it goes back to that like, The next time you do it, it doesn't get you just as high. because it's like it instantly hits your heart i think our whole world has just migrated from Same thing on the receiving end. and get into their heart and realize it's a safe place to be because it's scary. It doesn't seem

3:15:12 about the variables that did exist, right? we've this you're not set up for it and so like britney spears you're making shitty concrete you know like How do I make it better? And no one teaches you that. him to sit down for five hours a day and an hour in each different class he's the ability to lean into the unknown are actually the skills our kids need.

3:18:27 They can really start to see like how they're doing. You see it in your everything from your swing. Do you play? No, not really. I'm not good at it, It's really cool. And I hated that paradoxical kind of reflux. That's amazing. gonna weep with joy one day. And she's like, it's impossible. I was like, I know it sounds do you want a wellness buddy it's like she's the cutest so cute a wellness she has little flyers

3:21:57 It's just crazy that those are not the skills that schools are teaching. Yeah. Do you give things this meaning do they have meaning or do you give the meaning because very often? They're teaching you facts and they're teaching you how to do calculus and they're teaching you how to apply for schools you know like we've Keep me honest. And so that's what we did.

3:25:11 just tour as a living as a single mom and so I wanted to create a job that had a lot of purpose because it's everywhere, but it's like this weird word. Nobody knows what it means. So I just want And they've actually been able to show you can affect the shape of your brain and how your blood flow works, you know, just by meditating. doesn't mean it's not working. It just means you're present and you don't feel good. It doesn't mean

3:27:59 That's where now that you're present, what are you going to do? supplying the information that I know. And then like this, the great people in Ohio and then a salesperson are helping sale it. Like we have to start helping our kids Whatever terrible feelings that I'm having right now, many other people have had terrible feelings and they've overcome this to

3:30:11 Like if COVID taught us anything, it's that we need some help. Time flies. No, I just don't want to make, Some come back. hit we could do that it's the first song you ever wrote now that we know that's crazy it's your first hit? We could. Do that. It's the first song you ever wrote. Now that we has to be short so that I can play Amateurs, man. Dolly's great.

3:32:35 No one knows her political ideas. Should I, like, come to the middle where I can get both of them? Oh, yes. Yeah, no one has sung in this new studio. Nice. That's a great one. because I just wasn't coordinated enough. And I couldn't learn anyone and hitchhiked from Tijuana down to Cabo and then I and it, I don't know if, did you ever go to Mexico in those days?

3:35:25 I had a little sign that said reflexology because I thought that was like made me look legit so that singing. I'd sing in restaurants for burritos. And I just, the song would get longer and longer and longer. Got a ride in a semi from Cabo back up to Tijuana and it had been carrying pinto beans. people living their lives for you on tv they say they're better than you and your greed She says hold my calls from behind those cool brick walls

3:37:52 Who will save your soul your soul la la la la la la la la la la la la But that don't pay your bills those things those things those things the things the things, the things, the things, the things, the things You gotta cut, stick it out, streak it right now and bust all your butts Julie, you're awesome. Thank you so much.