Joe Rogan Experience #1768 — Dr. Robert Epstein Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. And oftentimes when you're looking for something very specific, you'll find that you can't find it on Google. It's the most powerful mind control machine Because this is what I call, Yes. that if they control the ranking of the search results, they can control people's opinions, purchases, votes. An Android phone is an S&M device.

3:44 Oh, yeah. There have been court cases in which the recordings have been subpoenaed from whoever is controlling that, you know, that so-called personal assistant or that device. it is recording, tracking every single thing that you do. It doesn't do anything like that. system. It just looks like any old regular phone. It seems like you're trying to hide this, Robert.

6:43 Wow. You pay for them with your freedom. Well, that's changed for me over time. Chrome is Google's surveillance browser. Very, very rarely. I've been a researcher for 40 years, and I had a lot of research underway. I get that. I get it. Google blocked access to the entire internet for 40 minutes. Well, there were lots of search engines. Google blacklists entire internet.

13:40 is more than 12 years old. They, this is, Google is full of geeks. Why? So this was done through Google for sure. You'd say, I don't want to bring up kids in this kind of world. out there to see what kind of power these companies have, especially Google. And I am still almost month by month making more discoveries, running more experiments, getting very disturbing

17:59 information based on their algorithm? It's manipulating you just by default because the higher or more likely you it's going to pull up supposedly Confession. Okay. you, you dig in and you really want to know. And I'm, I am, I'm now I'm so that's, that's please tell me more or elaborate Well, you're saying all this stuff that looks, maybe it's biased, maybe it might influence

21:26 the Marius Milner effect. You ever hear of Marius Milner? No. Okay. I mean, we're talking terabytes of Wi-Fi data, passwords, everything, A single rogue programmer can do it. unlike most of these people who've walked away, he brought with him 950 pages of documents and a and how they can shut down the entire internet for 40 minutes to send it to you from Google that's showing the criteria they use in deciding which content to suppress.

26:58 most part that suppress conservative content, but not always, not always. Now I'm going to circle back. Okay. I use both. I mean, iPhone or Android, you mean. Yeah, I use both. So how do they make sure it's safe? Warning, visiting this website may harm your computer. I think maybe you could In other words, if they put everything on their blacklist, then no one can reach anything.

30:07 They're really in charge. They don't crawl the internet anymore. God damn it. Oh, night and day. In other words, Google is literally looking at billions of websites every day, Lots of different databases. And it seems like what happened with Google before anyone even understood that the data is so valuable. I think his name was Matt Cutts or something like that.

34:16 you in search rankings. It can delete you. It can block access to your websites. It can do anything it wants. So this is not a rare thing that they do. A couple months later, he invited me to DC.C. We sat down, had a four-hour Did they did they know when they first made this that they were going to be able to have the kind of power that they have today?

37:19 The first top executive ever to leave Google is a guy named James Whitaker, who's gone completely silent, Now, if you don't think of Google as an ad company, then, again, you're not getting it. about google's slogan right don't be evil yeah but no one seems to know that they dropped that slogan in 2015. Didn't they just add it to a part of a larger slogan?

39:36 it? Jamie will find it in a moment. Can I go back to something? Please do. Okay. I just want to go elections now and all that stuff. So who testifies before me? A top executive, a vice president from that's when he leaves Google. So you can look at the list. You can see who's on the list. You can see these are almost all or many of them prominent conservative organizations. There are no left wing organizations on those people on blacklist? Is it maybe some, I mean, it's obviously speculation, but is it maybe some sort of a deal that they've made

43:20 Right. They have very strong values there because the founders had very strong values and they hired people who had similar values and they have really strong values. So values is second. And this is serious. One of the leaks from Google was an according to company values. intelligence, because they had some support, Page and Brin, right in the very beginning at Stanford,

47:00 If someone is going online, they're using a search engine to find out instructions for building bombs, for example, okay, that's a potential threat to national security. You know, it is an obvious place. If you're in law enforcement, Talk about cool. We're doing the cool stuff now. Okay, Google is not. We're doing the cool stuff. Because we have discovered a number of all that stuff, we measure the ability that these tools have to shift thinking and behavior. percentages, proportions. We can make predictions in an election about how many votes can be shifted

50:26 And that means they're either allowing, you know, one candidate or one party to rise to the top, you know, in search rankings, or they're making it happen. Well, guess what? But then it continued to go viral on Facebook, so 25 million Yeah. It would give you nothing probably for Clinton body count. But as you're typing, You do it on Yahoo. Two suggestions. So that's why we started doing this research on search suggestions because I kept thinking, why? Why would they do that?

54:35 Negatives. that one negative for certain demographic groups can draw 10 to 15 times as many clicks as the other suggestions. Very, very simple kind of manipulation. So subtle. All you do is suppress negative suggestions for the candidate or the cause that you support. And as I say, so we did a series of experiments. We opt-in thing when it first came out. I think it was 2009. And it was cool. And it was helpful,

58:27 or so, suddenly they dropped to four items. So in our experiments, we actually figured out why they were showing four items, and we went public with that information in 2017, If it's too short, then the likelihood that they type in their own damn search term and ignore your suggestions goes up. by the way, the last time. So you're all, those of you who are watching or listening,

1:00:14 What's it suggesting? So your first and third suggestions, notably the first position is the most important, are Amazon. If you type T, you're going to get Target and so on. Nothing interesting on there at all? First of all, you're Joe Rogan, okay? That's called on purpose. getting five suggestions, four out of the five will be for Google. So the lesson there is if

1:03:15 has to do with their motives, And it is possible, you see, you can set up a company like Brave that doesn't play these stupid games and doesn't fool you and it's Well, that is one area where Apple deserves credit, right? That Apple has not taken up that same sort of net-like surveillance where they just kind of cast a net over everything you do It's just that at the moment, so far, you know, under

1:06:13 But to this day, no one knows the details of what's in it, except here's what happened. that Windows 10 is a tracking tool. Just because it's so profitable. What is it going to be in 20 years from now? I mean, it seems like there's so much potential That's what I do every day. And everyone always points to certain language from his speech. This is his retirement speech,

1:10:03 And you probably remember hippies, What technological capabilities were even available back then other than the media other than you know broadcast television and radio But knowing that you're creating turmoil is – here's my thought on that. it'll suggest to you it doesn't have to suggest to you negativity you gravitate towards that naturally. why is what are they supposed to do are they supposed to make less money and then have no

1:14:17 all the titles, everything comes from YouTube, except we have control over the ordering, are suggested by We randomly assign them to this group or that group, and we just push people any old way we want to push them. from lists of registered voters. So we're getting people, you know, who look like the American population. And the fact is, in our experiments, we do these, usually our experiments have hundreds of people in them.

1:17:19 and based on your answers to how you feel about abortion and immigration and this and that, How about romantic, sir? websites and we've been typing in random answers, or we've actually They add in a timer. and then we are measuring to see whether we can change anyone's mind. They're vulnerable. that are used throughout the world that can completely change the way policy is directed,

1:21:42 But, you know, I said to Cruz, I said, why don't you work with Blumenthal? And he said, well, no, I don't think that'll work out. This is a perfect storm for these companies to do what they have done, which is they have already So, yeah, you have even more control if you get people into virtual realities. Right? Jamie, did we ever find out what Facebook or Google rather changed their...

1:24:37 So it's still in there. If you aren't sure, don't be afraid to ask questions of your manager, legal, or ethics Because I have to pee. And there was the one gentleman. Jimmy, what is his name? And it was really wild. they're doing. How does that wokeness play into that? Is that just a natural artifact of people coming from universities and then eventually working for Google? Or is this like sort of a

1:27:44 Three. me. I'm doing what I do because I put humanity, democracy, America, you know, ahead of any particular party, any particular candidate. There are bigger issues here. It should be obvious So I did my thing. Really? What were the circumstances? Obviously, it was totaled? The reason why I ask is, like, what kind of wrote a story about a general in, during the time of Obama's administration, there was a volcano that erupted in Iceland.

1:32:49 There's actually a video of it. general. That kind of shit scares the fuck out of people. Well, there's a very good book on this I mean, the kinds of things I study, in my opinion, should be considered crimes. my beautiful wife was killed in this horrendous fashion. And, you know, obviously, I have, coverage of the data that you're putting out to the point where it's not going to impact them?

1:37:29 general? Because in that state, they elect them. And I said, oh yeah, very easily. And he said, Here and there, people have set up a computer that they anonymize, okay? And they type in lots You have a profile. You have a profile. You know, you have a, how long have you been using the internet? Now, you're probably thinking, well, how could I generate that?

1:39:46 And we've shown this ourselves. This is exactly what that company does, Nielsen, that does the Nielsen ratings. So we started recruiting field agents, and we developed custom software literally from the ground up. And when we screen a field agent and we say, okay, you want to join us? We install on They got unbiased content. I had a reporter from DC, I'm not going to name him. He was doing a piece of my work. Then

1:43:12 So monitoring. because we knew from the experiments we had run that that was enough bias to have shifted over a We, at this point, know how to preserve pretty much anything. We preserve 3 million web pages. kind of bias, any kind of shenanigan, and you make that public, you expose it, they Because of the amount of money that they give to campaigns,

1:47:43 The government is not going to do this. need. We need to set up now, because now we know how to do it. We need to which is fabulous, I'm so proud of my staff, Because if they give biased answers, that shifts thinking and behavior. It's just that you can't see it. They published a study in 2012 showing how they could get more people to vote in 2010 by sending out vote reminders.

1:51:52 within seconds or minutes if a targeted message like that was being sent out. Based on the experience that we just had a few months ago where we got Google to stay out of Georgia. Bunch of emails. like a news feed, a list of search suggestions, an answer box, that affect users, disappear, You can't go back in time. massive surveillance of everyone no no no All you need is a representative sample.

1:56:01 So you just take representative samples from each state. Well, that's why we're very, very careful about how we do the recruiting. So how do you find out if someone's suspicious? algorithm to, boom, just start generating a lot of stuff, which would mess up our numbers, right? The team is growing. the following Tuesday. The article had been pulled. The editor-in-chief was determined to get this piece out. He got it

2:00:57 The government has done that before. but they're going after Lithuanians. simple regulatory intervention. And this was done with AT&T back in the 1950s. It could happen in the EU because Google has, I think, 18 data centers. And this is Brussels. in progress, and the AG of California is staying out of it. His name is Becerra, I think. it would affect Google worldwide.

2:04:36 They'd still make massive amounts of profit. for as long as they possibly can? but now I'm going back in time. manipulation. So I sat down and I did exactly what a data analyst or data scientist at Google would What kind of tech are they using? Like, what's the bias there? Yeah. They're trying to carve out their own their own world, their own niche on the Internet.

2:09:18 That's right. Facebook's top 20 Christian sites, 19 of them are run by troll farms. But the bottom line is they control the algorithms that determine what goes viral. That's where a take over our government, our democracy, our nation. And the fact that people don't know it or that they sometimes say that I've given speeches. Yeah. And her position was that China was just going to copy Google's tech if they didn't do that.

2:13:34 That's right. These are young people in their 20s, and I outscore them. Let me put it another way. I went into her bedroom just to check on her. but literally how are they being impacted right now? vigilant you are as a parent, okay, the fact is 99% of what your kids are seeing online or experiencing online, you're unaware of. We've turned over literally our minds.

2:17:43 His wife, Sonia, I was on the board of her school for autistic kids for 15 years. I mean, I went to their daughter's bat mitzvah. They came to my son's bar mitzvah, etc., etc. But he won't talk to me now. I was supposed to be on a panel with him in Germany. and this upset my wife, Misty, at the time, I have no idea what he did. And he goes, graduate school?

2:20:05 He worked for a private investigation firm. Now, why do I think Google sent him? Because I had written to that And so they're not interested in communicating with you. They come from all over the world, actually. And we had this person all signed up, and her start date was Things have terrible things have happened. She said that? Yes, I could have and probably could still sue her, yes.

2:24:15 I have five kids, okay? Someday I hope I'm going to have grandkids. And, you know, it's important for the world right now. It's important for our democracy, which as far as I'm concerned is an illusion. It's an illusion. When you look at the numbers, you realize, no, there's a player in here that you don't see, one? Well, I don't understand that because this is really good science. I mean, in other words, the work I do has been published in top journals. That initial SEAM paper, that was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

2:26:02 You know why? Because they're getting funding from Google or they're terrified See if you get Dapfner. Wired Magazine. And that's scary because, they have about you. I think it was Misty, my wife, who set it up. He says, I know, I know, I don't have a Facebook. Well, I said it in a way, I guess, that was pretty convincing, and he was upset. Even if they deleted it on one server, it's sitting there and backup after backup after backup, and not only that, if you read, I think I'm the

2:31:15 Yeah, I think that what these things are, or doxing someone or putting someone in harm or lying about them, opinions expressed of people that align with a certain ideology, that's not free speech. They were, you know, they were suspended from Twitter. Now that's cover of Newsweek. It's constantly being discussed. federal agents in the January 6th event? Did they engineer people going into the Capitol?

2:34:47 to those people like if you watch uh there's a great documentary on um hbo this q anon documentary look at this is as bad as Pearl Harbor. This is as bad as D-Day. Tamebigtech.com. We don't know what they're looking at, what they're listening to do what's best for them, This is the year where we're going to get this thing I updated it. disgusting. That's horrible.

2:40:07 the fact that you're the only one. So I said to my associate director, I told her last night, I said, So. good then if I