Joe Rogan Experience #1769 — Jordan Peterson Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Engage in the dance between two people. I think you got to do it all the time Yeah, I found that was particularly the case with the podcasts is that it's hard to do that sporadically. When? years Miami is going to be underwater? Who believes that this is probably hyperbole and that it's a Your models are based on a set number of variables. So that means you've reduced the variables,

3:03 Well, that's what people who talk about the climate apocalypse claim in some sense. Because, well, what are you pointing to? Well, I'm pointing to everything. Well, don't include, you decide which set of variables are cardinal. And you have to make that decision And so at some point, it's all error. So, look, imagine that you're going to predict how your life goes.

5:45 right? So if you ask people, you want $5 an hour, do you want $5 in a month? They're going to say, well, I want And then one day it's dinner time. And the chicken's the main course. Right? And so Then I say, okay, I'll give you $5 an hour. And what you generally find is that impulsive people discount the future more heavily. So should you save or not?

8:55 analogy doesn't work because they're based on food. And the food that the ant supplied and And this is a huge problem. Well, you're very unlikely to be robbed and pillaged unless you and rewrote a fair bit of the document. And so I did a lot of work in the background, And a lot of it was on oceanic management, Isn't that wild? really protected. Because the thing about poor people is that, well first of all they live in, they're not

12:31 We don't have lunch, we're hungry. And that goes on for like a month, we're dead. And so this is one of the things could talk about important things. Because whenever we put limits on economic development, That runs contrary to every theory that your whole political philosophy is based on. which it most certainly isn't, that's actually completely backwards,

15:00 And what would that be, nuclear? And we still have a weird idea of nuclear because of the several, you know, whether Well, that's not so good because, first of all, they cut down the trees and burn the trees. We should double check it. And maybe, I don't know if you know this but this is also this is so funny too Look. Okay, more than 90% of the world's children breathe toxic air every day.

18:13 Okay, it says World Health Organization estimates that. They're talking about pollution, right? Let's just read it so that people understand what we're saying because we can read this. Well, it's just poor children, and the world has too many people on it anyway. What I've also read is that one of the problems is when people start talking about electric cars

20:14 Well, yeah, that's a big problem. Right. I think it was. So 70s essentially. They put modern suspensions on them so you don't kill yourself driving them. a Corvette, and drive that. My it was like listening to the end of a 210 counts But then car manufacturers realized, why are we leaving all this money on the table? I don't think they're thinking that way.

23:47 in any hierarchical system, when you stress the system, It's like, that's the end of that. They're closest to the food. A bunch of poor people fall off the map, like a bunch of them. is contaminated by an anti-capitalist rhetoric. Now, the problem with the socialists, so let's because if the problem of inequality, which is an actual problem, was as simple as,

27:09 monopoly what happens when you play monopoly everybody starts out equal and one yeah exactly let's say you give 100 people $10 each, Well, then what happens? native family. And this particular culture had a tradition, the potlatch. And they had the same They'd have these big celebrations that rich people would put on where status was determined sitting around thinking, I need another super yacht.

29:56 I'm sure he does. One is, all the evidence suggests than in the entire course of human history. Can I pause you for a second there? Yeah. Oh, one point that's something. We've lifted more people out of poverty in the last 15 years than in the entire course of human history. Because it's hilarious. She told me it's so funny. I mean, this is like, it's one of the great contradictions to the progressives in America

31:50 meaning that the company would have to, and I'm not picking on Apple like any company, name them, One of the ways they're doing that is by paying people very little to make their products pay it. up and really increase the economy, what you would do is pay people in third world countries the Chinese communists woke up enough to realize that Americans have engineers. And so now we've unlocked an unbelievable amount of brainpower,

35:13 Yes. Look, that's a good question, you know, That's really something. there's i talked to some people i was in washington for a week last week and i talked to some people that almost all almost all those who do do it because of political conflict. Like it's purposeful starvation now. Right. And then it was also where the union auto workers had established a strong foothold and they made good money.

38:43 although I think that's an oversimplification. So like there was a thing. They fell apart. it was the first Chinese trade fair in Canada. I mean, in the 80s, particularly, Japan got so powerful that everyone thought it would be the dominant world economy for like 10 years. that would be being slaughtered like mad. economy and the answer is we don't know which is not a very good answer and the

42:36 because he wasn't doing too bad when he had almost no money. But he got a disability check Okay, now about that man. in studying alcoholism and he would capture monkeys in the wild and bring them to his compound and then But 5% of them would drink themselves to coma on first exposure. Yeah, we knew about that. Well, they were housed in colonies. wouldn't even engage in sex but then they realized that if you take these

45:17 And then you give them cocaine. Now, imagine you gave them access to cocaine and you stressed them. And this was brilliant research showing that, see, a lab rat is not, a lab rat's actually lurking in the background and with these monkeys most of them wouldn't take alcohol repeatedly How big is the large? The cage wasn't stressing them. Well, how do you know what a rat wants?

48:03 then you can make them press a bar to open the door to get into the arena. So maybe do it a couple of times so they learn that. Then you can make them press a bar to open the door to get into the arena. Well, then you measure how many times they'll press others. And even in highly stressed human environments, not everybody becomes a cocaine Yes. And so one of the things that's happened over the last century is the mean IQ

50:26 Even on the information front, some of this was the introduction of television. amount of that has happened all over the world in the last hundred years. And that's a great deal for everyone because, well, that's that much more So that is the dance over there, right? when we were talking about Jean Piaget, who was very interested in the basketball on the chessboard, which you certainly can't, not if you're playing chess. But now,

53:39 when I realized it. You know, why bother if everything's going to disappear Because once you accept that, first of all, you're anxious and hurt by it. become nihilistic as a logical response to that. And then what happens? And then what you see is is a very strange art form. I had a great journalist friend of mine, he said to me the Music gives you the intimation of meaning directly.

56:44 punks were down there smashing into each other as a non-representational art. It doesn't represent anything. It's not like a drawing It's got emotional content. Yeah. Well, you could say it represents emotions and fair enough, fair enough. But I was thinking layered on top of one another And so, what's the world? Well, then you move your body. And it calls to you to take part in that and then so maybe you dance by yourself

59:53 with a leaven of unpredictability and then that puts you right on the edge And this brilliant guitarist just goes way out on a limb. And that's because they got an intimation of genuine meaning. which is something like to observe that happens when people interact with that music well Well, you see that. If you get lucky, you go to a music. Yeah, it was an old friend of his as well.

1:02:47 Yes, yes, yes. and everybody in the audience was there in the same place at the same time, Well, it's also, the good comedians are right, they're like musicians. and it blows apart their sterile preconceptions. Yeah. Yeah, what are the rules? Whether it's trans people, gay people, people of color, Asian people, It's my audience. I mean, I knew my audience was primarily male, as I suspect yours still is.

1:06:27 women tilt towards fiction and men tilt towards nonfiction. interested in people, because some are. Like, I'm a man who's more interested in people than things. But you can definitely be a man with a feminine personality structure. even though they are different, And I think there's other reasons, too. outsider life and if you were a prisoner same thing but then all of a sudden it started to

1:09:44 And I can explain of these people who are fluid in their identity are actually high in trade openness and they do God it means all sorts of things we would fatally confuse thousands of young girls. And so one of them, for example, was the satanic ritual abuse accusations that emerged in daycares in the 1980s. It's like, well, they have mutable identities.

1:13:12 So we always have this problem, because we have to maintain stability, or our traditions for sure a lot of people that and by the absence of free play among children who are hyper-supervised. And he was playing along. okay and Because from my personal experience of having daughters, thought well why would you worry about anything else other than it being fun? Well, probably because I had, why was I worried about it?

1:16:50 here well he's playing with the girls okay should he play with girls yes definitely he should play Are the girls enjoying it? there are often people who have a kind of a rigid identity, and part of their escape from that rigid expansion i look at it in union terms so part of the process of personality expansion in the It's a puppet. Carl Jung. okay, you have something to say and do here.

1:20:30 It's dangerous. because they're not saying what they have to say they got to integrate that shadow so that was part Well, or it doesn't have to go all the way to rape. Do you remember that case of that Canadian broadcaster who was this guy who was like, talks like this very calm and then a bunch of They're terrified for what reason? for women and he wasn't an attractive guy. And so we're having this conversation and I said,

1:23:55 And so girls were not interested in him. Well, it's not even incels. And then he becomes this role model for the dissemination of complete catastrophe into the entire society. movement he makes every turn of his head is conscious. It's dance-like, and you can't take your eyes off it. a lot of flashy outfits. And they did show, and they weren't exactly androgynous. That's not the right way to think about it. Is they manifested a higher order integration of masculine and feminine. And that made them charismatic.

1:26:32 Yeah, he's brilliant. That's what it is. So I just walked through the Museum of the Bible in Washington. So it was a cool thing to walk through because it's chronological. And for a while, literally, there was only one book. And then it became all sorts of books that everybody could buy. that he said you heard of the internet i said yeah jim i've heard of the internet he said

1:29:36 That's not words. are dependent on a given idea, the more fundamental that idea is. That's a definition of fundamental. Now how do you understand that? case factually i think it can't be any other way it's the only way we can solve the problem of And I've been tweeting about it It's like, no, Joe's an honest man. I mean, what do you know or what I know?

1:33:08 That's the most important thing. I can trust you. You we disagree that's fun I can i mean you can be around people but not have a good conversation and you might it it inhibits your not just your intellectual development but you're in the entire unfolding adventure that's what it is and so and what happens to abraham this is a bloody catastrophe That's what you set against it.

1:36:15 You want adventure. everything's motivated by power Yes. Okay, what about music? Why do you think that the whole These are from career intellectuals who don't venture outside of the universities. I think that's 100% true. It's like that's a confession, buddy. the will to power it's crazy okay you're a psychopath right well it's also like even more Because if they're not capable of generating it themselves, they resent it for sure.

1:39:24 And it's very funny to watch. What spirit is possessing this manifestation? I know, and you did it. who's got their sense of humor. I mean, you cannot like comedy, Yeah, the play. which is going to be, I hope, playful and fun, you know, as well as serious Who's like, I found it was really characteristic, Like they're funny and they're clever and they're sneaky.

1:42:49 And then in Times Square, there's these people dressed up like superheroes, and kids that have must have been awesome. and a lot of them have been the subject of unbelievably vicious attacks. Like he's thought these things through. interesting yeah so it's really starting to manifest itself And I developed a little bit more well, what did we write down?

1:45:24 they're interesting descriptions of people moving through time. Those are our first basic documents. And so there's also a religious twist in this. I mean, technically, that's what it is. Yes. That's fine. the damned. There's a reason for that, because that's a symbol of the operation of the Logos. Well, let's let everyone flourish and welcome people and forgive them, all of that.

1:48:36 listening Carr said well I do a hundred shows before I go out and tour and I try Why? Everybody breaks down. like it's really straining, and then we'd crack a joke. So how much laughing should we be doing? Playing. I'll have a bit, and I'll have the bit fully structured. Sometimes jokes come out in full force. You have some raw material. I have a whole, I think about it like jazz improvisation.

1:52:18 This is a good hint for people who want to write essays. I'd like to get farther with it. because I like to be able to see the people at the back, but I can't. and if there's a lot of them that's a problem but if it's one guy you don't look at him look at you're doing it with your eyes but you're still listening and and that does inform this dance and

1:54:49 I'm away from the tree and I don't know how to get back. And then I can think, oh, yes, that's why I made that point. Yeah, I do callbacks all the time in my lectures. Yes. It's such fun. Because no one teaches them. And so then you think, well, what are you doing? but there's a horizon, right? which you love to be in, Isn't that cool? like not knowing where you're going with it.

1:58:05 words to describe something, oftentimes they're unskilled, right? So their punchline will also in in its possibilities yeah but one of the things that i love the most about psychedelics is that it informs me of that just by existing. So that's kind of interesting because everything around us is infinitely remarkable. and you and you express that sense of wonder in the confines of that trust then you are in fact

2:01:23 the transformation of new ideas. What did you think? And that can open these gates of imagination for example you know you know this already because to some that experience was achievable through a psychedelic, I think it'd be a very popular And there's definitely truth in that. because we get interested And then what's even more cool than that is that there's nothing we can experience that

2:04:41 Six of them? Why haven't you tried to incorporate that into your life? Dancing is what you do on the stage after you've written your jokes. hurts and what's so cool it's like massage you know if if you're hurting and someone massages is imagine that to get that process of optimal self-revelation right, That's the cosmic tree, by the way. In yoga, you're trying to get your body psychophysiologically aligned so communication between all those levels isn't

2:08:33 into the equivalent of a psychedelic experience, like everything, because part itself in a psychedelic way in your existence it's like what It's not me. Don't worry about the future that is not what that sermon says at all not even a bit not a not a bit Yes. The desire that everything will flourish, rather than the desire that everything will suffer.

2:11:01 Do you believe in the good? And that's right. you conduct yourself in deceit you lie to yourself you manipulate other people to get what you want Yeah. and their flashy blonde thinking about when they're going to cut make a lot of money. But there's a long history of businessmen who are total sociopaths, who've achieved immense wealth. had people assassinated for criticizing them,

2:13:29 Don't you think that dictators, like we don't even have to name them. say better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven Yeah, we'll see, man. everywhere. He said, why? He said, it's full of implicit Marxist suppositions. I thought, What are they based on? It's not the expression of the will to power. so they're patriarchal hierarchies. Okay, rough, tough chimp, can pound everybody flat,

2:16:37 and two subordinate males that he hasn't really been attending to It depends on what you mean by always. of the planet earth during his lifetime because he killed so many people yeah well let's not Well, it's complicated. God is the amalgamation of all that is good. bush it's the psychedelic experience it's god against the pharaoh the pharaoh is a totalitarian

2:19:18 But all countries collapse. 25,000? 100 a lot okay for sure i think i think i can only say what i have concluded by looking in as Is this real? Now, is that finally real? We had a conversation before the podcast started about Brian Murawski's work in The Immortality Key, Yes, Gordon Wasson. Yeah, it still is. It is sort of, but. Yeah, wait till it's not, man. what yeah it still is it is sort of but wait till it's

2:22:49 Poor Rick. He's a really traditional biological, psychological researcher. And he said he said well we'll measure It was more real than reality itself. And good for him because he should be treading lightly in that domain, drop out. an upheaval of the current state of culture in the 1960s. Okay. So imagine you're taking psychedelics. Now what? Christian. All of this is lurking in the background of that. That's why that book had captured

2:26:14 Well, when The Hobbit comes back, and pretty much put an end to psychedelic drug research infinitely more than you Yes, it was. He's manufacturing these bloody things, same size as your table here. They're worth like $50,000. Yeah, so there's these braziers on both sides. Yeah, and then he was roasting these huge steaks I didn't know that. He's a black belt

2:29:14 He sets up the scenes and he has the story in mind, But there's parts of it that are extremely interesting. And the answer is, bloody well, right, we do. But he's blown right off it. has visions of historical atrocity it's like welcome to the world man it's Partly because they're reasonable. because we all have in-group preferences It doesn't work at all.

2:32:30 almost stopped reading Twitter comments. Some of it's like pathological curiosity. that they would never say to me face-to-face. So if you are working on an assembly line and you're next to some other guy. People talk like that all the time. guy when he's not there you say the same thing if you're in your car you know and somebody cuts you and they looked over at each other,

2:34:48 Ah, you fucking idiot. But they don't tell you why you're getting road rage. Right, but it might be akin to what's happening on Twitter Interactions that they have that are negative the amount of expressions. They have that are negative are Imagine you do get a kick from that sort of spontaneous outrage. emotion. Yes. But it's also positive positive it's approach because if it wasn't

2:37:19 a friendly smile or a casual compliment. Casual compliments and friendly smiles are nice, zero. Yeah. Okay. But that's not true in real life. but you can control how you interface with them. Yep. That's the difference. And if you continue And they'll be like, hey, bro, stop reading that shit, well it's also the case that people you know it's not all bad that drives people to that too because

2:39:41 It's also almost all the comments on my YouTube channel are positive. Right, right. And maybe they've drawn all sorts of conclusions and they've decided to look at it in the least Right. Even though this podcast is reaching fucking millions of people, positive they're so positive that it's almost unbearable because one of the things that's very I get mobbed.

2:43:05 just a person and i'm a nice person i'm very nice i try to i go out of my way to be nice it's And so the problem with those interactions is that if you make a mistake, that person will never forget it for the rest of their life. Yeah, yeah. of betrayal. Yes. Because you're kind of hoping when you go up to the person that they're the Yeah. because I'll go down the street and everybody says hi, you know,

2:46:07 And so you really have to handle that carefully because they have made themselves vulnerable in that moment. And so, because we try really hard to make sure that all these interactions go not a single word every anyone has ever said to you for the last 40 years was honest. He's got a bias control group. Yeah, yeah Depending on who you ask, either you're a voice of reason and rationality and personal responsibility.

2:48:21 You're not mean at all. What am I? Yeah, it's really weird. Yeah, yeah. difficult to get off of and then to hear from other people that have tried to get off of it openly and honestly about drugs. And the guy's a professor at at Columbia he said that there's two drugs that Really? People just stayed on them? there's nothing I can do. You know, when people read.

2:52:53 But at the time my job was threatened, like actually. And the evidence? I've been doing that with you the whole conversation. Yes, well, there you go. Although I don't know what turning it means. Yeah. Well, she was also angry with me thick and thin. And then all of a sudden, so many things piled up around me that I found when I was in a clinical session that I was distracted.

2:55:34 this be. This is working. I'm not going to muck with it because I could barely go back to work. So sick meaning depressed. 2016. has been very beneficial right when did you get on the diet yeah i was around the same time 2016 17 and that seemed to be weird life yeah the cure to a lot of Well, my wife has a lot of immune problems and some of them are quite serious and I have

2:57:51 And slowly, you know, which is not a pleasant way to die. She didn't want it to... Yes. the time. I thought I was only going to have one knee reconstruction. Yeah. Yeah. So I started But, and I had three surgeries to control it And so I had that for like 20 years And I had psoriasis and that's gone. Sides of your legs were numb? But that went away.

3:00:42 And it's just meat? Any fruit? So I started to eat some other foods, but my daughter convinced me to stop that entirely again. a lot of this is pressure? That certainly going off them was, I really don't know, Joe. When you I really liked it. I know, it can be too much. We look at the sunset. Yeah, they don't. Okay, what if you like to fight? Look, an excess of anything can push you beyond your limits.

3:04:06 And I've had to parse that apart carefully to decide what was particularly stressful Oh, I've been writing a bunch of music. I wouldn't call it singing. We need a taste. And they're really dark poems. And they're the sort of poems you read, I'm not sure exactly why, these terrible poems I wrote that are comical and horrible and I said, Tammy And these, I'll show you, I'll show you them.

3:06:56 So they're very deep and dark and beautiful, Yeah, yeah, yeah. He can play all sorts turned into its own complete enterprise and so we're going to put out an album of all these songs. Well, when I finally, two years and I haven't fully recovered, but, but I finally, two years, and I haven't fully recovered. This is one of the things that was terrible about it is that it was really, really bad in the morning.

3:09:33 but because she was fighting her way through, I think it made me, again, it made me more susceptible to something that was already happening. Well, I don't know that for sure. No, she had a background in trying not to die, suppose of a carnivorous diet as an investigative tool for chronic untreatable disease and that's a meat, weirdly enough. Not just live, but thrive. Well, you know, people debate about that,

3:12:19 You don't have to just eat the meat. Because that's the healthiest of all meats. Lamb and salt. They both seem to manifest fewer immunological symptoms if they only eat lamb. She did very well. The study's no joke. So that was pretty much experienced by all the participants We encountered it two days before the debate, but it had been published very recently, like within the last three weeks or something like that.

3:15:28 that I'd ever seen anyone deliver anywhere by a factor of about five. which is a dangerous territory to wander into, that analogy. Oh, sexy chickens and pigs. Is this woman on a Miss Piggy rampage? This will go viral. and how appalling the human race was, Yes, yes. We think that's bad. We've already established that. and so they were on the side of the anti-meat people.

3:18:53 that set of presuppositions to bear something man i think i discovered yeah that's it that's it pornography of meat yeah well there you and so that makes it okay, apparently. Every trope, every politically correct trope you could possibly imagine But Titania McGrath couldn't have held a candle to her. He is. And multi-talented. Oh, it was very civil.

3:21:41 every reasonable person thinks that eating meat is bad What about having the argument that monocrop agriculture is immoral? can be made as humane as possible, None of them died of old age. why it's possible, And I have an app coming out in a month or two, hopefully a month, called Essay. you want to answer it it has to be a genuine intellectual enterprise and so the people kids

3:24:44 And so when you write, you have to get the word right and the phrase right at the level of the word and the phrase and the sentence and the paragraph and to build those into using this product because they're the hardest market to target with such things, and the most in need of it. by which they aggregate their allies or even more importantly the the means by which they serve

3:27:16 Get your words in order. maybe could at least in part address that problem. So there's that and I compressed it from 40 hours to nine, which took me like 40 years to do. the desert well why well we're all say prisoners of our own tyrannical misconceptions and Preconceptions and totalitarian obligations and you decide to drop it or maybe you're shocked out of that by trauma

3:30:49 and they get all fractious, and they fight with themselves, And so the poisonous snakes are biting them This is one of those impossibly weird stories. And maybe we can start him to do. That's the same symbol physicians use. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, that's complete nonsense. It's repeatable. So the idea that it's impossible for those people from thousands of years ago to actually

3:34:06 Of a lack of experience Is preposterous And that's just how it goes Yeah, that's me, bro. Okay. So the classic therapeutic treatment for terror and the poisoning that terror induces is exposure, Yeah. Okay, because that's better than being safe. You cannot write a more tragic story. It's impossible, technically. Why? Okay, so that sucks. So, and you're young, and you've done no wrong,

3:38:25 of the cross, let's say. Okay, here's the idea. You hear the crucifixion story and you play with it. All of that, that's you. Look harder. And this unbelievably strange thing is, That's written down. almost certainly come from some sort of transcendent experience. Do your investigation. Yeah, yeah. God only knows how long. Right. We know that the people who were going to approach it purified themselves before they dared do it.

3:43:09 between the story in the New Testament finality of evil and suffering you see the the victory of the spirit that obtains victory over It's like, you're threatened by what's worse than death, we use 10% of her brain that isn't what I mean I mean we're not fully committed But we're not working in cooperation. that's fine. And I also think that, look, if you have kid A and kid B on the

3:46:17 Oh! And somebody wrote us who was planning to shoot up a high school. nurse. And it's all resentment driven. And so that's way worse than just a bit of a warped desire to achieve. It's like Heath Ledger's Joker. positive meaning abuse resentment resentment rejection but also see when god when cain slays whiny, spoiled, self-centered, narcissistic brats, because then at least you could hate them in good

3:49:14 It's like, yeah, that sucks. that's creative. You read the writings of the Columbine kids. Well, there's all sorts No, no. No, no, it isn't. It's like the Joker. No. right which is what they should do that what they were doing they'd already planned to die right well so then here ask yourself this No, I don't think that was. Yes. Because never, something's almost never all, you know?

3:53:42 And they're not exactly depressed. Nothing mattered. Like I said, zero of anything is pushing too hard. it because I wouldn't generalize from that. Do you still have personal experience with these drugs? Alleviate the anxiety of following through with something. No, It's like, oh man, I didn't take out the garbage again. That's too much negative emotion, right?

3:57:35 in such things. It would be studied. Yeah, people are interested in that correlation. and so partly you can destabilize people by threatening their position in the hierarchy, faculty member comes in for a job talk for that position. So I'd say, I know a bunch of things that are useful that I can use in trade. To have that revealed means that the system could validly take away your position.

4:00:49 if you look back at any reasonable stretch of history, but the left comes up and says, Destroy you. Yes, most likely. And if you go to my website, you can find my list of recommended books. Okay. Yes. Always good to see you. trustworthy and reliable and these are these aren't fringe political figures like these are So keep it up. I know. popular. create a kind of a format or to pioneer a kind of a format. But what I do hope is that the people

4:05:23 They weigh their words. Exactly. because even if I tried to teach a friend of mine this, dishwasher. I loved it once I got good at it. And the reason I loved it is I was a kid, 14, and but also to work with people. And I had really good friendships with those people. And that I think it was literally dozens, Yeah. It taught you the value of hard work like you had a long shift. Yeah. It taught you the value of hard work.

4:09:06 could fit. And so I was off. You learn and then it sucks at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. we're here to get this done and you can do the work outside the meeting. meetings of the personality and psychopathology subdivision and it was really fun it was fun and Everybody too drunk. And that's there in front of you. If you listen to people, I learned this in my clinical practice. If you learned, listen to people, they are so goddamn interesting.

4:12:18 Even people that, you know, wouldn't register in some sense on any normal social barometer. Oh, you gave me four hours, Joe. Thank you. The feeling's mutual. All right. Bye minutes now. All right. Thank you, Jordan. I appreciate you very much. Hey. Thank you.