Steven E. Koonin

Date: 2022-02-11 | Duration: 2h 6m

Episode Overview

Steven E. Koonin, a physicist and former undersecretary for science in the U.S. Department of Energy, joins Joe Rogan to discuss the complexities of climate science and the challenges surrounding public discourse on the topic. Koonin emphasizes the long-term variability of climate, illustrating this with historical data such as Nile River levels from 640 to 1450 A.D., highlighting natural fluctuations over centuries. He critiques the tendency of media and some scientific reports to overstate climate risks, arguing that this alarmism undermines public trust and scientific integrity. Koonin stresses the importance of distinguishing between well-supported scientific findings and uncertain projections, advocating for a more nuanced conversation that acknowledges both certainties and uncertainties. The conversation also delves into the economic and technological aspects of addressing climate change. Koonin discusses the limitations of current renewable energy technologies, the challenges of scaling innovations like battery storage, and the economic impact of aggressive climate policies, particularly on industries like oil and gas. He points out that while human activities influence the climate, adaptation remains a crucial and often overlooked strategy. Throughout the episode, Koonin calls for a balanced approach that prioritizes sound science and pragmatic solutions over ideological debates, aiming to foster informed decision-making in climate policy.

About Steven E. Koonin

Steven E. Koonin is a distinguished theoretical physicist and professor with a rich background in both academia and industry. He served as the Chief Scientist for BP, where he bridged the gap between energy and environmental science, and was the Under Secretary for Science at the U.S. Department of Energy during the Obama administration. Koonin is widely recognized for his thought-provoking book, "Unsettled: What Climate Science Tells Us, What It Doesn't, and Why It Matters," which challenges prevailing narratives around climate science and emphasizes the complexities of the issue. With his unique blend of scientific expertise and pragmatic insight into energy policy, Koonin captivates audiences by addressing the urgent questions surrounding climate change and its implications for society.

Key Moments

– Climate Science
– Sea Level Rise
– Greenhouse Gases
– Energy Technologies
– Economic Impact
– Climate Models
– Adaptation Strategies
– Ocean Currents
– Hurricane Data
– Carbon Dioxide
– Renewable Energy
– Scientific Integrity
– Media and Climate
– Climate Policy
– Environmental Economics
– Agronomy and CO2
– Climate Change Uncertainties
– Climate Data Analysis
0:00:00 – Introduction to Steven E. Koonin on JRE
0:01:44 – Steven Koonin's educational background at MIT
0:04:33 – Discussion on climate science exaggerations
0:06:35 – Historical Nile River height data from 640 to 1450 A.D.
0:09:07 – Scientific method and hypothesis testing in climate science
0:12:31 – Explanation of Earth's albedo effect
0:15:08 – Concerns about climate data used by deniers
0:19:54 – Critique of climate alarmist perspectives
0:24:18 – Importance of scientific institution integrity
0:25:56 – Analysis of hurricane frequency and damage trends
0:30:40 – Ocean currents and decade-long climate cycles
0:34:20 – Review of recent UN climate report contents
0:40:31 – Interest in sea level changes at Manhattan's Battery
0:54:55 – Human impact on climate focusing on CO2
0:58:45 – Discussion on economic impacts of climate change
1:03:13 – California's phase-out of gasoline-powered cars
1:07:16 – Challenges in scaling energy technologies
1:11:32 – Cost and scale of CO2 extraction from atmosphere
1:15:31 – Balancing climate action costs and benefits
1:20:08 – Zero emissions target by 2075 for 2°C stabilization
1:23:28 – Acknowledgment of human influence on climate
1:26:40 – Desire for public scientific debate on climate
1:30:13 – Complexity of climate model assumptions
1:33:44 – Historical climate data from ice cores and crop diaries
1:39:30 – Two media universes on climate discourse
1:41:47 – Ecosystem and societal consequences of climate change
1:44:35 – Local adaptation as a political strategy
1:47:53 – Polar amplification and Arctic warming
1:50:00 – Overhyping climate threats in politics
1:52:06 – Ice core data on historical sea levels
1:56:15 – Potential changes in sky appearance from climate
2:00:04 – Audience reaction and tribalism in climate debate
2:01:50 – Closing remarks and final thoughts

Transcript Excerpt

Starting point is 00:00:00 the Joe Rogan experience Starting point is 00:00:47 120,000 copies. Starting point is 00:01:15 Yeah, right. Well, you would think, right? Okay. CNN, nothing. And I think people are just Starting point is 00:01:44 You went to MIT. Starting point is 00:02:02 Pretty extraordinary. Starting point is 00:02:46 15 years later, starting to be realized. But once you say you work for BP, there's a certain Starting point is 00:03:41 listened to it on audio and there were sections of it where I had to go back Starting point is 00:04:33 they have over-egged the custard. Now, why do you think this has happened? Starting point is 00:05:40 Now, one of the things you highlight in your book is that when you're looking at the way Starting point is 00:06:35 So this is the height of the Nile River from 640 A.D. up until 1450 A.D. Starting point is 00:07:21 you can see, for example, in the first 100 years, it was going down. Starting point is 00:08:10 Yes. So climate changes on all timescales. It changes on thousand-year timescales. It Starting point is 00:09:07 Because most science, you have a hypothesis, you run tests, you get results, and then you do these experiments, and that's how you get your data. Starting point is 00:09:58 certainly physics. I have published about climate science. I published a paper in August where we were watching the moon for 20 years to learn how Starting point is 00:10:43 you need 400 square feet, I'm going to ask him Starting point is 00:11:38 We work for all government agencies, but a lot of what we do is for the national security parts of the government. Starting point is 00:12:31 The albedo, it's called technically, whiteness of the Earth. Starting point is 00:13:19 Anyway, that sort of got me interested in climate science. When I moved into the private sector, I was more concerned with energy technologies and Starting point is 00:14:07 So they asked me, you know, Steve, recommend a new statement. Starting point is 00:14:32 in...

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On Joe Rogan Experience #1776 with Steven E. Koonin, topics include Climate Science, Sea Level Rise, Greenhouse Gases, and Energy Technologies.

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