Joe Rogan Experience #1780 — Maajid Nawaz Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the JFK story is like that has been Oliver Stone's thing I mean he's been following that story he's this intrigue at the top and the plots, is ever what it seems man i can only imagine you know it's got to be a stressful way to live in this sort of deception vein like it's got to be hard to know what's true and and you find out they're worth $200 million.

2:20 It's wild. this account called Pelosi tracker I don't know if you ever saw it. No. It's been taken down. It was tracking all her Why? It's a weapon now. Yeah, it's it's a weapon in a hybrid war that we're in That's fascinating to put it that way. Yes. like they see what's going on with governments and with lockdowns and all these things and they're

5:20 And had a very normal integrated childhood until I kind of hit my teenage years and Now, to put that into context in Europe, if you look with the US and you have minority communities, it applies specifically I don't know, say, for example, Many of my friends were stabbed. And then this guy was just walking past, random guy walking past. And the idea was that he's a traitor to his skin for trying to defend me.

8:23 He's a hero. feeling rejected from those from society around us the guys that the guys that And it was talking about how police were not looking into these sorts of crimes. So nobody So in that context, we became very angry Looking at the genocide in Bosnia with the U.N. troops, countries and instigate military coups to try and come to power. could you recruit them? And like, how would you go about doing that? Well, there's this military

12:13 involves around first so we used to say that you have to first destroy before very easy to do. If you've got the UN standing by while a genocide is going on in Bosnia, you demonstrate how those assumptions don't stand up to the real world and they require a solution. who are in modern day Bosnia lost that protection of the Ottoman Empire. So if you're speaking to

14:40 I was on the leadership in the UK. year, my third year. So I chose Egypt. So that was my ostensible reason for going to Egypt. But the rules of the game have changed uh once 9-11 happened people like us who were not you know I define, and people can differ with these definitions, And I was awake at the time because I had I was married and I had a one year old.

17:26 to try and make me believe Oh, Jesus. And we were trained to say one thing in that context as Islamist revolutionaries. for all of Egypt. Took us underground. and this is where the real nightmare began. And from that day when we were And of course, I have to wait my turn, 42. I still don't know who he is till this day, because Muslims believe everything you know in the Old

20:35 It's called Surat al-Buruj, the story of the trench. And then he was taken. I had to walk towards this room where they're going to torture me. But then something unexpected happened. Tell us why you're here. And honestly, Joe, go back to your spot and if you if you don't answer you saw what we did to your friend we're I mean, just imagine no rules, yeah?

23:33 I could hear him speaking in Arabic and he said, yeah, the foreigners are here with me. And then I stink. They took us from there and instead took us to a prison called Masra'atura prison, which is to forgive me but you know I suppose this propagation by speech and writing of banned ideas. Imagine an angry Muslim, 24, at the peak of the war on terror.

26:00 his ideas unless he's committed a crime and we hadn't committed any crime in temporary. And that temporary situation lasted over 20 years, which is why we ended up in jail It's why they were allowed to treat us in that way, because they had suspended the rights of their citizens as a permanent thing. So that began a process. But here in this context, amnesty reaching out to me softened my heart for the first time in my life.

29:31 as Islamist prisoners. sentence. But we ended up staying for about four years in jail, just under. And we were released And we had everything from communists and socialists. For conversion? Everything. You change your mind converted to Christianity, threw him in jail. Christian converted to Islam, throw him in jail. For conversion? Everything. You change your mind

31:24 didn't want peace with israel so assassinated him right so you did it because they believe that was treachery. They didn't want peace with Israel. So assassinated him, right? So you can understand, okay, you've got jihadis So I used that opportunity to speak to everyone. with these guys because, first of all, they had had my respect They'd lived the life that I had started on right, but they'd also then come back from it one

33:08 That's right. lot of carrot and stick, the leadership of these groups, in particular, the largest group, as I and eventually they came to what they called And so because we were the political wing, He stood for election against Mubarak, threw him in jail. journey stuff. Precisely. Yeah. And then on top of that. There's a lot of hero's journey stuff.

36:27 But sitting with those who had studied this and those who had spent many years thinking about this, the more I learned, the more open I became. the leader in the UK. So within that week, I had a choice to make. Either I live a lie and my entire identity out of your reality So the world hates you because everyone thinks you're the enemy. and I won't mince my words on it, this is why it's so insulting. It's seriously ignorant, where some voices have come out and said,

39:50 I was following who were also consistent to my heritage and yet believed in finding what we have in common and bringing people together rather than dividing people. There are, again, back to Western divide. As I say, the war on terror was ongoing. Blair was prime minister. I'm now going to call it, the machine, right? an Islamist revolutionary, and then 10 years of attempting to work on that high level in

42:29 Yeah. civil liberties values that you claim you're fighting for. So if you're saying they hate There's a guy called Abdelhakim Bilhaj from Libya When Western countries outsource torture to dictators children if you're fighting to defend children so you're saying to me you're you're fighting for i ask you more about the process like how do you go about meeting these people like how does this

45:28 I did all the kind of, you know, the prime time. you did he said well tell me about yourself and i got to the point of um when I said oh they tortured us in prison and he said um I opened my book with this story by the invades another country. But one on one, he was very easy to talk to. And it's so often the impression we have in media is a narrative built up.

47:35 Like we think about him, the standards of behavior, if everything is shifted, And he gave a real speech. vote for Republican Party, and then Iraq happened, and they switched to the Democrats. And I think you know, what I'm about to say, I don't want anyone to misinterpret something I imagine the Right. that they had done everything that they were trying to avoid we had had that one

51:33 It's insane. sign me up. You end up creating a satellite of sphere of influence for Iran because Iran is Shia origin country and ended up having this disproportionate influence in Iraq as a result. Well, you know, individual intentions aside, if you look to Cheney, if you look to Rumsfeld, And it certainly wasn't weapons of mass destruction. That all built on a lie and that's also come out since

54:01 Yes, and then he gave that one speech. I think it was at the UN What was the vial? And the guy that exposed it, one of our scientists in the UK. I mean, the man has gassed his own people. my former group, So it's just all weird right but looking died of what they found him dead in his car. I don't exist normally when people hang themselves watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat

56:46 But it's gone on long enough that I think it's going to be a part of the past. Yes. With Bush? And what happened was, if you recall, so those last two years, then Obama got elected, it moved from jihadi prisoners But that's not what interests me. when you think, oh, Bush's years, if only, our value system has shifted so much to a point. have most european took back all our foreign fighters who were americans who went to join isis

1:00:16 So that's what's happened is nobody. Jesus Christ. That's not the kind of world I want to see going forward. How did he respond to this? Guys, you've got to understand, I didn't even come from this system. including American citizens, was not accountable to Congress. So on the physical war side, because you were working towards peace Not him. Wow. What?

1:03:40 But you met Hillary Clinton. Last two years of the Obama administration, like the last two years of Bush, they began listening to us. You have no idea what terrorism is. friends get stabbed over that thing called racism i will stop you misusing that word That's like there's some among Muslims that were extremists. But I think that's the problem, right?

1:06:30 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The anti-vax thing is a big language. There's no way I could remain part of that phenomenon. Yeah, something a bit weird, right? No. Which piece? Sneaky talk. Right. fighting actually and spiritual guidance to try and get them back to a solid foundation working outside of my media work, outside of my, you know, my activism for civil liberties.

1:11:19 it into consideration and used that information upon making new decisions? Like, say if Hillary Clinton sat down and talked to you, where I was arguing for the motion Islam is a religion of peace. they are coming across as anti-Muslim, and they've got strong Muslim minorities in their countries. faction he's with that is in power. What do you think? I think it's more the latter. So it's not

1:13:30 what do you think is, new people doing it. And we have a popularity contest to elect the new person to do it. And Then you have a situation where the state is no longer serving the people, which is what I believe we're in at the moment. or born in the prison and their wives. Some were two, three, four years old where it's become politically acceptable for a UK home secretary to say, we're going to

1:16:05 however they're doing it. Now, if that is true, if they're just allowing people to just come into identification to vote because that's racist but you can have them need to have a driver's license Well, it's so inconsistent, people to behave a certain way. You understand it because you were radicalized yourself as well. they're looking at it in terms of what their ideology supports, whether their ideology is

1:19:41 After shutting quilliam down now I'm double I've seen that before. That's why I said we'll come back to emergencies. I've seen that story silent, they just lock you in jail If you remember under Blair, they tried to extend detention without charge for 90 days. It's like if in an MMA fight, so when the minute they suspended our rights under the coronavirus emergency act is the minute my

1:22:55 me against my will in prison. With what? Who knows? Just inoculations. Who knows what it was? So coming from that background, the minute in the UK they started saying, if you don't get your jab, we're going to sack you. people towards. What was that thing? Well, through the inspiration of amnesty, it was essentially If I don't agree, I can't leave my home.

1:25:27 Right. Now, we have the academic papers to demonstrate that. But actually, if you look at real world data today, right now, England that doesn't have initial days of it, what it was like, and this is why they were in support of this. I've got a deeper question which goes beyond the science. because it's such a fundamental change in direction in Western liberal democracies when it comes to the relationship we have with the

1:28:42 And generally beyond that, it can be anything you have to do for other people's sake. Now, if I want to redefine that relationship, It's like Brexit referendum in the UK. It's referendum level shift because it sets the precedent that going forward, I have a five-year-old. So peanuts, yeah? and they ask, do you have any allergies before I order the food?

1:30:43 Right. it's insane to mandate peanuts in every meal. Right. So, again, back to looking at peanuts. Don't have any. My dad is in his 80s, like late 70s, 80s. Yeah. He's had his boosters. Yeah. There's a bit of a retreat from all of this narrative. But isn't the problem with that on this lisa shaw who died after her astrazeneca vaccine was that death worth it because somebody

1:33:42 And we do what's reasonable to make sure the want to live in because for me if you get to a point like New York is today as I say, but let's have this entire conversation on the assumption that when they initially brought for the sake of the common good Now, as I say, the last time there was a bipartisan state-based consensus and the whole experience of medical abuse by the state,

1:36:35 program on children collecting all their dna to try and see if they were related to bin laden Yeah. Now you're trying to not you, but, you know, people are trying to convince me that none of this happened, that the states always had my best interests at heart. I can't undo those experiences and those memories and the treatment to say, OK, you were wrong on Iraq and

1:37:50 But this time you're telling me the truth. from this uncomfortable moment we find ourselves currently in. Thank you, Jamie. Sorry to give you orders. But who paid that? So the assumption that Now, pharmaceuticals make a lot of money out of this. And so this assumption that big pharmaceutical companies are acting in our best interests, again, is an assumption that has to be interrogated.

1:40:35 LBC. And I was getting over half a million listeners on a weekend lunchtime Did they have a conversation with you at any point in time before that where they're like, well, you probably can't talk about that? I got two Pfizer vaccinations, right? So people still throwing anti-vaxxer labels at me. that categorizes you as to whether you're clean or not when it comes to finances from a terrorism lens. I'm probably the only person you'll meet

1:43:13 So what I did is I sued them both. gone to jail for my faith, they were calling me an anti-Muslim extremist. you an anti-vaxxer even though you've been this idea that it's all subjective, we spoke about the trans debate, and when you shut down debate The truth is relative and it serves a purpose. What happens when you do that? And this brings us to the hybrid war we're in right now.

1:47:57 And it's really, it is a war in that sense, hybrid war. So information in that war becomes your most powerful weapon. Now, most people don't have the privilege of researching these debates, The Overton window keeps moving. They're still locked down right now. So again, I'm not anti-grandmother. Meanwhile, the health secretary caught on video camera having an affair in his office in government offices.

1:50:26 we have to vaccinate the kids. You keep shifting the definition of reality, in the end people the only way when you're in that situation They just retreated on all of this now and all of the everything I've been saying. than the cloth masks they were telling everybody to use, people more? In other words, does it kill more people than we're saving? Because if you were

1:53:35 right and we were told it's hundreds of thousands but there is a spike in all cause mortality now then what's causing all these excess deaths? I don't think so from memory, but I'd have to look at that. So by the way, these talking points that you've obviously heard over the last two years, every single one of them in the UK has now been conceded to.

1:55:34 came out and admitted that the COVID deaths have been overestimated because there's been a mix roughly deaths only of COVID. And there's this spike, five year spike in all cause mortality. Right, look at that headline. Yep. Can I send it to you? Hit the I'll try later and you'll get to the article. Do you see that? question, what's causing this spike? Five-year spike in all-cause mortality. How crazy is it

1:58:59 now i'm not i'm not giving you a reason for why there's an all five year spike i'm saying these it could then be you go to hospital and you catch COVID in hospital, but that's not the reason you're hasn't been tested in the long term, that demand answers. It's good for practice in debates. It's what happened to us, and it's what these great historical literary figures have always

2:01:48 make sense and when people are trying to shut those debates down that says more have to have actual solutions like medication, and you also have to have optics. You have to All the people in power acting in bad faith? And the leaks that have now come out, even the DARPA leaks themselves, indicate that they attempted to suffocate this story. But this is before any of the leaks.

2:04:31 Now, what happened is that this guy that Fauci was funding, The Lancet, which is a very respected medical wrote a hit piece those who are attempting to uncover whether he'd received funding to do that very work to reach. What were they doing? They were attempting to use this emergency to usher in Our chancellor, who does our economy, They want to replace fiat paper money with digital money as a competitor to Bitcoin and crypto money.

2:08:04 This sounds terrifying. If you look up the Telegraph newspaper, there's a specific article in the He's looking at it even on the search. Programming. paper money is fast coming to an end because of the 2008 economic crash in particular. or if you do something that your employer doesn't like, that if you try and use them on a certain thing, It's a coupon.

2:10:55 employer deems inappropriate or the state deems inappropriate. Oh, we got to see this. See if we Right, so that's the guy who runs our economy in the UK. or goods which an employer or government deems to be sensible. using vouchers that are programmed and you can only spend where you're told you can spend them. Suddenly, I can't actually pay to come here and speak to you anymore.

2:13:52 So think about what money is, where you can spend it on whatever you want, versus this public for three hours on a call-in show. I had to have done my homework. And the way you've seen Why would anyone want to do that, right? press disrupted that power dynamic because people could read the Bible for themselves. decentralization of currency in the form of crypto is disrupting power. Because the way that after

2:17:06 When the printing press was invented, the powers that be central banking digital currencies are in place that infrastructure is already there because You no longer have the power to define the story those who don't have power. Do you think if there was no cryptocurrency, if there was no Bitcoin or any of the other See how easy it was to convince everybody initially

2:19:10 yoke of traditional media were able to have certain conversations. Now, that means that They will win this and we'll end up with a better future. debt. We're just printing more money. That's unsustainable. So we're in this situation where I mean, people moving away from the West Coast and San Francisco in particular because of some of the crime problems there.

2:21:13 We need stronger laws. It's those in power fighting their own people. Professor John Gray at the LSE questions the idea that history moves in a positive trajectory. philosopher, was. She wrote about the rise of totalitarianism in Germany to try and understand it. and each incremental step is justified for the common good. That if you incrementally change, step by step, you change society, before you even realize it, you've got to a point that it's past the point of no return.

2:24:41 no longer stops transmission, no longer stops infection, people? So that's why I'm saying it's a comparative figure. It's low. example one thing we do know is our health secretary's waves of a typical pandemic before you start inoculating against that pandemic. But to try and inoculate in the middle of a virus, some scientists are saying only encourages antibody

2:27:32 reported by the BBC, denied access, visiting rights to his child by a judge because he was What purpose do these draconian measures serve? that living proof because you need the checkpoint in place, the vaccine passport, not for stopping Right, but here's my question. How so? They don't even know about this. first point and she's one of the most prominent members uh on the scientific advisory group in

2:30:49 point. Is that a real quote? Yeah. That's not clickbait? Directly from the, yeah, that's manipulate the public right we call it psyops psychological operations to try and elicit that That's a national newspaper in the UK. a vaccination well but they're realizing now after the dust is settled that they have regret they express regret about unethical methods but they're publicly expressing this regret yes because

2:33:32 the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Behavior Group, right? The founder of that unit has come out now Right. Right? So they're trying to get ahead of the curve and admit that they did it. The most professional in the world, right? right with the extent osint that's open source intelligence policy framework they may engage and it's headlined, Now, I've just read for you the 77th is engaged in information operations.

2:36:41 Intentions might be good. let me ask you this how do you think that is achieved do you think that's achieved through get something to rile people up I look at it and I go, is this guy And that's exactly what they're doing. their purpose is just to rile people up we're accepting those like wow we're being attacked but through all of this, I was able to identify some of these early warning signs. I'm trained in ideological warfare, basically.

2:40:51 but who are there to deliver the aims of your organization. Can you get Darth Vader music? Tell me when. more half of this cabinet, are for our actually young Nobel leaders of the world in great with a young global leader, but what is important for me... This is Tony Blair saying exactly the same thing. Prime Minister's teams in combating the crisis.

2:44:19 The direct quote, though, on his... But what he's saying there sounds reasonable. But didn't they say that about ending the lockdowns and keeping businesses? It's not just Twitter. fucking book called the Great Reset you're like hey man shouldn't you be It's all there. there were other broadcasters that basically some called me, um, uh, deranged is one direct quote.

2:47:08 the spread and transmission of COVID. So they publicly came out and attacked me. as opposed to- Of course. over the way the Chinese government has control of their corporations and the corporations act You work with the government. Our political elite. And I was a mainstream broadcaster who didn't even turn up to work because I was on a hunger strike sitting outside the Chinese embassy in protest.

2:50:44 he said, yes, I believe there's a genocide in China. And then America followed suit as well. Back in those days Again, like with everything else I've spoken about, it's now in the press. Specifically, a bit like in the Cold War where the Soviet Union wanted us to be communists. But can you really buy the influence of these to speak about the communist influence of China in the West.

2:54:00 it will lead to anti-Chinese racism. And let's instead speak about the need for Huawei, It's actually then it gets reported in the press. It's happening. against a community for their beliefs. room, and that is the increasing power of the CCP ruled China. And the influence isn't just And Michael Senger, who's one of the signatories to that letter, has written an extensive book on this, tracing step by step, the way I've gone through receipts with you here, he's gone through step by step these influence operations where the CCP have been encouraging

2:57:08 Who the the governments that they're being influenced the governments like like whether it's Great Britain, whether it's the United States, these governments are being influenced in your mind. It's called the Thucydides trap. But that's the moment I believe we are in in history. And I'll just say with foreign, I don't know how long we have, by the way, I'm talking.

2:59:16 Russia isn't our friend, but the bigger danger is China. The way we're behaving at the moment, Iran, and Afghanistan ruled by the Taliban. If we're going to be clever, we've got to realize this rising bloc, The problem I've got it's been influencing the world in this hybrid war way with its disinformation campaigns. So having, how do I put this diplomatically?

3:02:08 So there's three things I'm going to do. They took it down? But that's why I decided. I mean, it came out of nowhere, right? which primarily hosted short clips from his digital radio show, and there's no repercussions down that route. which is decentralized. Yes. Getter as an alternative to Twitter, just to try and have that diversity on the Twitter space. I'll

3:04:57 I'm so glad we did it. Bye, everybody.