Joe Rogan Experience #1784 — Diana Rodgers & Robb Wolf Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. I mean, it can snow. But it was fun. You don't know how much I wanted to be on your show. and I just every day for a week with no running water and no bottled water Yeah. like Massachusetts, But I didn't realize it was going to be like misting ice. I mean, it happens. Yeah, they used, used like barbecue grills in right right you know I'm glad this is a good time to talk about your book the

3:54 I lost 12 pounds. foods that cause inflammation. And for me, there's something, I mean, I'm not advocating I do eat a lot of fruit. like somebody dropping you some Imodium or something. Yeah, so as a dietician to be talking about things like this is definitely blasphemy. Isn't the goal to feel better to look better and to perform better Like isn't that the goal?

6:46 the medications that they were on, like entirely. And it went through and detailed like some blood More people started talking about it. autoimmune issues. I'm the person that came up with the autoimmune paleo diet. Like I'm the person And I don't think that a carnivore diet is the first whistle stop somebody should do Some people add in fruit like Paul Saladino has added in more fruit and honey and stuff

9:26 of their body, like a guy like you who does a lot of jujitsu, that's very physical. Some people centric, you know, thing that is typically portrayed in modern dietetics. But that's kind of the funny thing. Yeah. I mean, I've been to Spain. And they're really different. But yeah. Yeah. And then when you look at Hong Kong, they have the highest meat consumption

12:56 He got COVID and he kicked in a few days. In what way? But I think when you think about like human evolution and small group environments and that got divorced and she gets really sick and she's trying to figure out why her health declines. Like if you have good friends and you're around them and you're laughing, like how's that And, you know, when we think about longevity and kind of health span versus lifespan, we want to live as well as we can as long as we can and then very short, you know, decline and then, you know, fade out.

16:29 So the people that do exercise just for calorie burnout, the problem I usually have with that is that I don't think they enjoy it. You got to hit them hard. Yeah. What, do we live in the 30s? And so, yeah. And so then when you go 0.8 grams per kilogram, you're way above what these RDA, you're at about double what the RDA So what is it? If you wanted to get 30 grams of broccoli protein,

20:11 kidney beans. And so four ounces of steak versus four ounces of kidney beans. And when you see Because the water's not- eat to get all right so we have only nine grams of protein from four ounces of kidney beans so some of these branch chain amino acids are the really important amino acids rich meal that's that's rich in branched chainchain amino acids causes that signaling too. And it's not

22:43 get protein. We'll get to that in a second. Yeah. protein. Yeah. So, yeah. but they want to tick the boxes of getting that anabolic signaling, preventing sarcopenia, improving body composition, that is a way that you could do it. And these are all the ones that you need. Yes, not all of them. discussion. This is just the label, like the USDA nutrient database numbers, but that doesn't take

26:10 And then I have this broken out also for minerals and for vitamins just to show the micronutrients that you're getting from animal source foods too, which are far superior to – so here we have vitamins. How do you not overeat? But the big ones are vitamin B12. That's a big one. Because if you look at the big difference So for like example, beta carotene, which is like what makes sweet potatoes orange and

28:48 where they were getting their omega-3s from fish lack the ability to efficiently convert plant into your body. So that's another layer to it. And it just gets really complex. Like I think you is absorbing the protein more efficiently from an animal source. And you can compare that to beans or broccoli. And so that is a piece of how you figure out the

32:02 It's cooked on the outside it's cooked on the inside it's pretty yeah i don't i suspect that you're you know like if you were to sous vide Because I'm always wondered, like particularly because of game meat, because wild game meat has always been touted as being much more protein rich than domestic cattle. Like 20% fat by weight? the E, A, not really D, K is all in the fat-soluble vitamins, the E, A, not really D, K, is all in the fat.

34:11 No, the inflammatory fats. you know cows you could pet them and stuff chickens just trying to figure out if they can It's like shitty birds. food system that's okay so this is where we get into the weeds right because when you say that in any way that beef or raising beef is good for the environment in any way shape or form Tell me how it's bad. the land for it right and this is where sometimes i think that we chose to do the book and film

37:18 Which is some kind of barley grain? that just gets buried. And it's really important, and it's really valuable. It's very efficient, Oatly is an oat milk company. You stop it with the milk. Yeah, call it white oat tea. form oat bars for humans out of this inedible fiber that exactly oh jesus and so but the you And so the vegans got upset, and they were upset because they were bringing it to people

40:46 Wait a minute. How are banana peels toxic when I watch so many people on TikTok make shredded pork out of banana peels? Yeah. on the other side of the screen, I do love the size of that knife. I mean, is it just plant fiber? It will make the cattle sick. you to eat it because it wants you to deposit the seeds somewhere else. Right. It wants you to poo

43:19 and then I worked out. I'm fine with that. Could be that. Could have been. I was just nuts. Celiac is an autoimmune gluten sensitivity, so the villi, the little finger-like things that line the gut that help absorb nutrients, those just get killed via an autoimmune reaction because the body is And being very sick. I had a nutrition client who with compulsive overeating and so and I've sat through these

46:31 And it's just sort of how it plays out. It was just easier for her to like just give herself only that. chemicals that are messing with people's guts? Do you think when it comes to, obviously But like you get so sick with celiac, it's something that I would be careful, like the autoimmune diseases track very, very closely with latitude. You tend to see relatively

49:45 there's a loss of intestinal barrier function when intact food particles can make it into the body, where you're more likely to have parasites or, you know, other pathogens through your food, And this is where just looking back at like the 1950s, you know, people weren't – celiac existed then, but it didn't exist to the degree it does now. Yeah, corn and lime.

52:16 But there's something that's changed. Right. Right. when you say that to people, though. So now you've got a school system where 70 percent of the kids are economically disadvantaged and might go home on the weekends. And like no matter how much you say, like, hey, you need to read the rebuttals of the And between their report in 2017 and 2019, meat was 36 times more likely to kill you.

55:10 So what are you saying is going to be published? show any of the evidence any of the papers they reviewed and there aren't there's no research you had to cite sources and you had to. So up until about two years ago, that was pretty In two years. Nobody knows. as it is, there's I think that six or seven companies produce like 90 percent of the food that's consumed globally.

58:26 So it's fuckery. Like, a guy like that telling people about, It's literally like a non-athlete trying to coach professionals. But those aren't even selling anymore. We're like the biggest fans or promoters of this corporatization of our food system, which is kind of where all this stuff is going. It's an elevator pitch. turn food into intellectual property

1:01:25 Like Beyond Burger is twice as expensive as organic grass-fed beef per pound. What is the message? Whether the cow is there or not, it's going to happen. Those things are ridiculous. A little different. the underground water. Bison are a good example. So it's not stealing land from anything. up getting addressed and we see more bird species come back. This brings us to this whole idea of

1:05:50 So they don't just eat grain from the moment they're babies. in an area where if if he were just to let his cattle graze, cattle wouldn't have enough grass because you guys didn't get any rain in Austin. thing we probably should go back to that but is it scalable in terms of the One thing I want to bring up is that Diana went to Southeast Asia at the, can we talk

1:07:45 just on top of each other merck and some of these pharmaceutical companies recognize this and so the mainstay. But we know for certain that the current industrial food system is broken at the grain production level need to address that. But like the current system has an expiration date on it. We have to find something else. And in the book and the film,

1:09:46 industrial row crops is kind of the the ultimate thing that i think we take away from it does sound When did that start happening? But when we think about our planet, we want our topsoil to last forever. getting super affordable chicken because there was also, I believe it was vitamin D they realized was a nutrient that these chickens really needed in order to thrive in a factory setting.

1:12:09 And there's just that's already a limited thing, too, in addition to nitrogen. the industrialization of the food system. This is what people still do in most of the developing want to feed the whole world with corn and grain, you've got to have these massive fields. And that are filled with seed oils and like what exactly is in a fake meat burger? I think soy ends up on the oil front and then also just some of the protein also.

1:15:40 Are you giving people issues with the seed oils like soybean oil? And this is one interesting area that different places in the developed world have pushed back because they're like, we can't be dependent on this. Like we have these traditional food systems. And if you, So when people talk about the difference between seed oils and there's other vegetable oils

1:17:54 Really? And it shows the process of making canola oil. Rape seed oil that was invented in the 40s to be an industrial lubricant. Okay. Like none of these things have much in the short chain omega-3 fats. And then how are they making it look like meat? I mean, I was super impressed. Probably. A lot. That's hilarious. Just call it hate speech and just yank you off.

1:22:22 Beet juice. That looks like ham. He's putting all this stuff in there. Is that available online? They try to win on ethics, right? It's so looks like a burger. There it is. How do they an impossible burger. Wow. It looks legit. Look at that. It so looks like a burger. I could take that bullet, I guess. and i were doing at stubs you know if it's one of these uh heme the magic ingredient the impossible

1:24:58 about these smash burgers that are made. Yeah. That looks like beet juice. I think more like an ounce or something. Yeah. It's funny that these people think that they're So they can't really win on health. Doesn't it look good, Jamie? There's 80 stacks of patties on that sucker. The damaging aspects of it. No. How so? and pumping it straight into the atmosphere with no...

1:29:29 and even if I said it on the chart. Carbon equals bad. on a planet that has grass and you eat that grass. Yeah. And so in the US, in North America, and he had Stephen Coonan on recently. that then people start freaking out. And there was actually some scientists that were asking, Really? Right. I'm not all bad on you, buddy. We used to have sacrificial animals um and

1:33:36 So I think. you know, adding vitamins. Is there a way to do it? I think if someone is young and healthy already, probably was raised breastfed well and raised on enough good nutrition, there does appear to be some people that do okay on a vegan diet for a period of time. I remember reading about this guy who was a vegan. Wow. so many people are so ideologically connected to this idea that a vegan diet is better,

1:35:53 Like then they get attacked by the community. Diana really kind of spearheaded the health side of the research, is that it becomes really hard Was it Finland? Yeah. It blocks? 12 from algae? It's not true B12. Really? Yeah. So when you're getting B12 from like blue green algae and spirulina and all that kind of stuff, like what are you? From my understanding, it's

1:38:52 Yeah, one person. And that's the only evidence that we have. I know that there's non-vegan forms of B12, and I don't know what it's from. Like actually, not analog, but actual B12. So like for – there are certain toxins that you can do competitive inhibition so that the toxin doesn't get into cells. And so there's a number of things like that within the nutrients that – I'm trying to think of another one, like DL-phenylalanine.

1:41:56 Because there's a lot of vegans And I was like, oh my God. Is it life that weighs more than a pound? And when it gets to things form that's an ant, this tiny little thing, is that 500 pounds of meat. And if that cow was raised in a way that increased total life underground and above ground and brought all these birds back and everything, that was a life that actually led

1:44:37 Eh, I don't know if that's good enough. really hate is when you bring up plant intelligence. They really hate that. They it's a really complex system that reeks of intelligence and we don't totally understand kind of a structure where you have this one plant growing in this massive quantity is totally alien to anything that you ever find on Earth in terms of like – I mean maybe you'll find grass, like large grasslands.

1:47:37 For eating them? I've eaten everything. Yeah. Right, to grow them. Why? Cricket farm. And it's like a normal snack. Just make sure they have a lot of food? Oh, look at her. It's hard to tell, right? Oh, I can speak to this. Sorry, dude. I think is really good. Panathetic acid and iron. Like, shellfish tastes good. I forget the name of the outfit, but some folks in New Mexico, they have a pork operation and they've made relationships with the local grocery stores and restaurants.

1:53:07 Is that just nationwide? of those things more acceptable. This is sort It was just some leftover food that apparently it was sitting out, maybe, something. It's it makes you feel terrible like botulism. Did he get botulism from I can't I don't know It's classy as it gets. Just Chinese food. That particular one went to the wrong one I don't know it's like I

1:55:31 Try that one. Yeah, let's go to images images i'm sure it'll come up Yeah, it's true, but I haven't had amputations from it. I mean, it's really, really rough when you see it. multiple episodes of emesis. purplish discoloration of the skin developed and a friend took the patient to the emergency During 30 minutes, tachyphena worsened and labored breathing, hypoxema, psionesis.

1:58:37 It never really says. It's not saying that in here, I don't think, but I read it initially. Right. You know, when he's wheeling his friend guy that also ate it but didn't really get sick. Right. and you lived off of your garden, that's probably the most karma-free, right? of like what monocrop agriculture is and all that kind of stuff to then understand the ethical to

2:01:09 have read those studies. Whatever you're eating is not good. It seems like it, right? On the hand, I don't. Like the strongman guy got injured a bunch and kind of retired. Right. Right. Like they can probably get away with eating a lot of fast food and be pretty a lot healthier than me, you know. Why would you get it? Yep, yep, yep. So that's where I could see like the soft tissue injuries and stuff like that starting to be a problem.

2:05:34 I think those are the main. number two is good for you. Sunflower oil, potato protein. Is that good? I don't eat, story but there's other pieces to it i'm sorry white oak pastures in comparison to beyond burger I know that they didn't go into some of the mined minerals that they need for, you know, all the vitamins and minerals. Now, is this pound for pound?

2:08:22 it was kind of weird but I think it was literally the same number but the opposite direction so in terms of harm Is that really possible? CRP program to actually leave their fields fallow. So if we look at regenerative agriculture as But to finish them on grass? So they're getting like food scraps that we can't. So it's not the place to look for that.

2:11:49 We even hired an independent researcher, a person with a PhD in nutritional biochemistry. I think the environmental argument is strong. There may be a case for like bioaccumulation, So finishing on corn marbleizes it. it has more calories, so it just depends on what your goals The cow is not alive as long. food policy level that are potentially going to be really injurious.

2:15:41 and then part of an animal and on and on. dicey when you even start talking about that so we we don't talk about that but it you know do you That seems like no. eating those and there's a there's a flip side to this is that as a culture, we're super unhealthy. People like Lane Norton and whatnot kind of sign off on this if people under eat protein they

2:19:12 of global control of the food system and you go to buy meat and it's, you know, it's like a social so that shouldn't that be factored into junk food? the annual annual cost of diagnosed diabetes in America. More than 34 million Americans have One in three is either diabetic or pre-diabetic. See that is something that you know obviously this is anecdotal but you know Jordan Peterson

2:21:34 Right. waitress in this place to get him a giant plate of salty, crunchy French fries. And he would eat a He looks so much different now since he doesn't do that show anymore. I mean, good God. So we're in this horrible place where people are saying, but it's unsustainable. It seems like they're playing funny games with the numbers. And then people say it on Twitter. They say it's like it's just this like cold statement. They just say meat is bad for the environment. Meat is bad for the environment. I mean, I see that everywhere. And then people say it on Twitter.

2:24:19 I'm with you. and got like right to the 11th hour 59th minute and, and then somebody was like, oh, shit. Like, we can't sign off on this. I had a rare day off. facts that are contrary to what you've already espoused and None of them eat meat. Some look great. You're a fucking unicorn, pal. The ethically superior part. Nice. we have much more efficiencies generally. And then a lot of these environmental problems,

2:28:50 UK, there was an experiment where they put in hedgerows around the regular, you know, conventional So we have to start putting what our values are. Markets are really good at optimizing things, It's kind of a tipping point, but it's a really important point in history. But we crushed that imperative. We produce huge amounts of calories, What I'm saying is if you run a pig farm and you only have X amount of acres and you have

2:31:11 in these fucking containment facilities, you're not going to recreate that on 100 acres with Joel sells to Chipotle. No. And you have to take all the products of industrial farming, pull that out, process it. And people just, they don't realize like the grasslands in the United States there's still a really efficient piece of that. know, like the difference between the hydroponic versus growing it outside.

2:34:56 Like he's in the poorest county in the country. So he does it online? And nobody's like coming back and actually working in their small town and loving the land that they're from and making sure that that gigantic, nasty, polluting pig farm doesn't happen. Like you're problem solving constantly. And maybe there's a case to be made that more people need to shift back into a quasi-agrarian

2:38:15 They want to be able to eat it. People started drinking low-fat milk and low-fat this and low-fat that and everybody got fatter. Like I'm I'm not an expert. How the fuck do I know this? So you think it's a financial incentive? Dietetics and nursing. though because meat is such a commodity. existential threat to their existence why not you're gonna win either way Oh criminy so when

2:43:25 about this? Because it'd be great. Then like everything is consistent. But one, I think the and they feel just super happy and invigorated Like we make the case that like there's all these other foods that could be nutrient upcycled that doesn't really fit into like the grass-fed model. it should be grass fed meat or nothing. Yeah. Really? Which is a very anti-meat

2:46:04 equals woke, right? Do you know he's not really vegan? School lunch looks like shit already. When a child is growing, do they have different needs per kilogram in terms of like the amount of protein that they need? the book and thankful and everything, but fatty acids is better for you. Yeah, So they don't like it when I say that, because then that takes

2:49:05 And there's a lot of very large family foundations that are that goes outside of it. And this sort of healthy questioning and just reasoning and logic and just You know, it's just so rare. Most people, they get something in their head and they just stick And so you end up with nobody really advocating for me and also there's no Only on Amazon? So I'm like a, I'm not a JK Rowling, but my books have done really well.

2:52:44 Really? Yeah. Really? complicated. I think that this isn't going to sell. And then the weird thing, and it's probably So there was something really, really weird. So you think they were holding it back are you kind of seems You can get it right now, right here, Sacred Cow, You can find all my stuff from there. Play this, Jamie. eat and how they should live.

2:55:57 This massive amount of monoculture are a key piece of fixing what's broken? Those are really our only options. Thank you.