Joe Rogan Experience #1792 — Daryl Davis & Bill Ottman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! Thank you for having me back. Basically, is it transparent? Yeah. So I absolutely respect any network that is putting forward a free speech policy. So we use an end-to-end encrypted messenger protocol called Matrix. don't be evil, but it really can't be evil. And so, Daryl, to fill people in on you, debate. It's the way that we have it, how we communicate,

4:48 end of the day that we all are human beings. And as such, we all want these same five core values saying, but respect their right to say it. And we provide that platform because, you know, when you do the work right exactly so what twitter does is like, fuck you, get out of here. What Instagram does, the same thing with all these people. have to speculate that they're intentionally causing it. I mean, because these are very

7:55 But it's not intentional, meaning they're not trying to radicalize people. harmful like a lot of it is like disagreeing with pharmaceutical companies which Well, you know, to your point about, you know, people doing this and defending it and so forth and so on. do and not supposed to do and what you're supposed to platform and not platform. I think you should try to pick it apart.

10:34 and this idea that you're only supposed to have Okay? And Copernicus said, no, we're just another planet. He was right. was Brett Weinstein had a group that he put together called Unity 2020. Twitter banned an alternative account. And they banned the account. And they took a chance on starting a new system. We like talk about a good content policy the first

15:10 Oh, Kara Swisher. Well, I'm just saying. So in the literature, it's called certainty, level of certainty. Let's work together. But a lot of them are the very ones who will not sit down and talk with the person that they're protesting against. Well, it's happened in universities. I mean, we're really trying to make this less of an emotional debate, extremism. There's a difference between radicalization and violent extremism.

18:46 They need to start open sourcing more code. say if someone starts a neo-Nazi group and they start posting on then it will be, someone doesn't use the tags? Like, so what if someone, then it'll get reported and get tagged. Right, right. certain size should be considered common carriers. Now, common carriers, so there's this whole debate got some sort of decentralized control where it's not

22:32 After they left, after he left, they ramped up censorship in a big way. But I think that there is starting to be pushback. Oh, what, five, six years ago? And I liked what he was talking about, all different people from different political backgrounds, The only people who were not supportive were the protesters across the street, some of whom called me a white supremacist.

24:57 It's like I guess they are. We sold out. He's a former extremist and he is leading in the de-radicalization space. He actually was an Al-Qaeda propaganda Who's one of the best examples of that, So he can say it from this way. in terms of doing the research. this. Others talk about the effect of what they've done. Some talk about the cause and the effect.

28:06 Of course he is. It's like every surveillance tactic they could get to grow. Oh, you know, they take you through their nice onboarding flow, super slick UX because they have brilliant designers. is happening they're grabbing your all of your contact book they're grabbing Twitter is doing this. How about zero? they're aware that we're communicating with each other

30:48 And how do they know that you might like it because so-and-so liked it? It seems like they have to be listening. But I don't know the answer, So it could be that it picks up certain words that would indicate products And I had turned Google Assistant off. Wow. It's available. We'll listen in. I use Twitter to see how crazy people are, like how crazy are people today?

34:13 looking to engage with people so I don't I feel like the engagement with people It's just literally impossible to post to multiple places. Yeah, we do. Yeah. So this is like trying to get rid of conflict minerals. It's not an easy project. They miss the name. Yeah. What happened, Jimmy? Really? it's got kill switches. That's what those buttons are.

37:04 So they're saying, look, we need to make sure So a third party could come in, scoop up all the intellectual property, and just use it. So dirty. Have you used any of these? Do you have a USB-C charger? I'd like to see what that thing's all about this one yes perfect the other thing is you know There's a lot of shit you can't use on it. This thing, does this have a navigation?

40:15 Is it open source? It's graphene. Do you know what they're saying here? I don't know. similar to those provided by G. That means common apps like iMessage or web browsers become dangerous. like navigation like are people willing what sacrifices are people willing to to make and can we have a I don't think so. What seat were you in? And every couple of days, they would contact me.

43:53 And then in 30 days, they will stop the search. And they found the phone, and it's in the lost and found at the Houston airport. So iPhones, apparently there's like some signal that's being sent. Like, trust us. But I'm playing with all the options right now. It's not even stripped? mine's is on different operating you do that? I do that because Android is at least open source in its base function.

47:07 You want to open that so I can check it out? I think people are concerned So I have gotten rid of most – I don't use big tech nearly as much as I used to, probably like 10% of what I used to. trend is for them to get more intrusive, right? Like TikTok is supposedly, they back engineered his people. So Briar is fully decentralized. It runs over Tor and it can even run offline.

50:11 The fact that that's even possible to chat with no Internet? Isn't that good? Apple does very, you know, relatively little open source compared to a lot of other companies. You know, this was before OS X 10, which was the Unix based operating system. That's a good question. I ask myself that all the time. But how do you know if you go to this F-Store?

53:45 different permissions that they're giving and you know different security implications so i don't Well, it's pretty simple. Yeah. Yeah, that's not food. Really? And just like a bland burger. Switched back? So she, when we were vegan together, have you heard of Weston Price? Okay. So she switched her diet and is in remission. And she, so there's been studies done on cabbage juice.

56:54 There's like five of them. And I wouldn't be surprised if in a thousand years humans are not eating nearly as much meat. There are people that say that eating conversations should be suppressed. And that when you have these kinds of conversations, I think some wacky vegan activist who works for the company can just decide that they're going to take your account down.

59:29 I mean, you've seen the PTSD studies crazy stuff. And that's a real thing, but that is unavoidable to a certain degree. But I mean, to bring in experts in dialogue to engage, imagine if Facebook spent billions So now we're accepting, you know, some Eastern culture. Now that was one of the things that was suppressed was information about methods of treating COVID.

1:01:37 I mean, there were people that were banned from social networks for suggesting that people who are vaccinated can still spread COVID. There should be warnings. And, you know, but imagine if rather than a fact check warning, like, you know, these three think tanks said that this is false. It can't be mostly. And, you know, there's going to be studies on one side and another. What do you do on minds for that

1:03:57 you earning badges for can we see the interference would you pull up mine so we can see the interface There could be any infinite number of badges that you could potentially earn but like you could be Your YouTube. I don't know. they post it under my name I've been just linked from YouTube because these Imagine my account at mine's got hacked and some dude is just posting.

1:06:06 And I have 118,000 subscribers Fuckery this was your Twitter picture up on YouTube to keep a hundred This is the censorship effect. They're not going that far, but I think it's a step in the right direction. the same as it would if he stayed on Twitter? They're just lost. But when you're thinking of the internet as a whole, then, you know, the total reach is not necessarily going down.

1:09:49 Four years. But it's the difference between that and Facebook. Yeah, probably close. But here's the crazy thing. maybe we should pay attention to some of these carnivore people. what I'm doing is totally wrong and don't get me or whatever. But yeah, I've had, I've had Those people can't change. Yes. Yeah. But I mean, what kind of commitment are you talking about? How do you have the time to do this? This is what I do. In between my music gigs.

1:12:58 I get emails from people I don't even know. I even get emails from people who've seen me on podcasts or on TV shows. because at least they'll be a part of it. comes back and tells you, Joe, you know, this magician, he asked for a female volunteer and 50 women raised their hand. He picked up this one, come up on stage. He told her to And then he went over there and talked to the head of the woman and she talked back

1:15:03 I was there. But could it be possible that just maybe out of those 50 women that raised their hands that are wearing the same stockings the feet are over there. Now she can't move them. So he has to distract your attention Yeah, this will work. You know, all you see is this. blacks in prison than white people. So that feeds what he already thinks he knows, the data, right?

1:17:58 His ears are like this, you know. I'm not pushing back. All right. I will guarantee you, white kids who go to school in the inner city can score just as low as those black kids, No. and listened to him insult me. So now it's my turn. I could go on the offense and say, no, However, I don't have a criminal record and I'm as black as anybody you've saying. However, I don't have a criminal record, and I'm as black as anybody you've ever seen.

1:21:16 we reflect on what we did during the day. He thinks, man, I just had a three-hour conversation In most cases, people will follow the truth. I've been exposed to people from all over the world. So I saw something that they have not seen. people over in France, like in the 1940s Samuel Clemens. It's called the travel quote. And Mark Twain said, quote unquote, travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness. And many of our people

1:23:48 He did a neuroimaging study of people being exposed to political beliefs different from their own know like daryl knows how to create long-term relationships and not be like thirsty for them It is. Yeah, some of them, yeah. brain size all this shit and have you just tell them your perspective and see the wheels start I'm driving. He was referring to Southeast Washington, D.C., which is predominantly black.

1:27:40 or a carjacking. How do you explain that? This man didn't even think about it. And so I thought about it. I named one for him. I said, you're Gina's latest. And then he changed the subject. Yeah. Oh, it's common. this gene for violence. that it's their obligation to kill someone based on what land they're from break it, take his stuff, beat him up, whatever. All right. So we hear about black on black crime.

1:31:14 versus the people that are dying right now simultaneously due to U.S. drone strikes I'm interested that you had that feeling that maybe you shouldn't have had that person on. and like people are obsessed with uh true crime and you know obsessed with interviews with some It's such a dumb argument, especially in your case. Yeah. and explained to them what we were working on with Daryl.

1:34:31 I'm just hoping that honestly, no offense to them. I feel like they're, they're in their world. would be extraordinary. They're going to pay users to moderate. So let's separate payments from actually getting the community involved in the moderation. And so you have to be careful of that. Yeah. you're treated equally. But when you graduate and you go out there and work in the real world,

1:37:58 Or the four black guys sitting at the Woolworths counter in Greensboro and people pouring stuff over their heads. It's part of American history. What's neutral about police dogs attacking peaceful black marchers. There's nothing in the courthouse to register to vote. You know, so it needs to be all history needs to be taught. not taught that we come up with either a better argument, or you agree with part of what they're saying.

1:41:40 everything from economics to healthcare to everything. like their interviews, Because everybody doing that more, Right. Let me change. Alright Daryl you got one? And then I'm out of here. But I changed my mind because those conversations did change that person. And you're You should never be connected to your ideas. about our model. I actually think that I'm open to seeing, you know, over the course of 10 years, like, let's actually come back in a few years and look at the data that, and the information

1:45:36 And that's not, like, covered in the First Amendment. Let me ask you this. troll farms, these are people that are hired to disseminate propaganda. They're hired to kinds of inauthentic content engineering for different political purposes doesn't matter what saying programming an AI to say, There's the DID spec, Yeah. But at the end, you're going to at least know where you stand on something because you've had both arguments played out in front of you.

1:50:05 And that's why, you know, so we do support video. Oh God, it's bad. Daryl is out of time. Daryl is out of time. So I can get... So it works as like a USB drive? and you can actually take control of the Bitcoin. bitcoin towards you know our work with daryl and this we're going to have this basically sit Yeah. please send Bitcoin to this address and we're going to put it towards that.

1:53:16 Let's figure out what fuckery was going on And, Daryl, what social media are you using other than Mines? Thank you, Joe.