Joe Rogan Experience #1807 — Douglas Murray Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day And you look like a fit man. Oh, you're a risk taker. You don't want to spend January locked in your house. for one bit of physical exercise. Wow. They found it like almost immediately. Really? I don't know what we can do with them after this because they're going to lose their meaning because they've just had a whale of a time.

3:08 I can see your nose. Right, right, right. But you could reach under there, and it's the same air. because her head was under there she just wasn't very body aware that's what it felt like yeah like You've been very quiet They did a number on you. When I watched what they were doing to you, untrustworthy yeah people know how biased they are and they know how

6:05 One of my rules, I try and never be mean about people because of their appearances. I don't know what, everything about the guy is strange. Yeah. the West and it's terrible. Oh, CNN minus. But, I mean, I feel like I don't have to pay for his book club. So like all you saw all the time was like burning crosses. There's so much great stuff going on. It was a nice idea, but it was obviously going to fail

9:33 No. myself it just yeah because of the need of the news to develop the story i mean i used to get Would you be willing to come on and call for the which it kind of is. a panel with four or five people all of whom get Yeah. Well, that was a lot of people's reputation. with the uh presenter it was good it It was like 10, 15 minutes. that when I suggested that they should interview me

13:01 there was always that sort of funny thing joining us this morning. And now you say in your latest book, and then you say, well, But Channel 4 thought it was great. And she then complained that I and others doing that had led to death threats against her, which then became the news. That's not at all. But that's quite cute that R.I. RIP Kathy Newman is a death threat. Yeah

15:47 And then, I forget what it is, he caught her. But she went into that argument or that discussion with the goal of making it controversial. very ideologically opposed to or really had a lot of differences with was packing out arenas of young, cool, clever, smart people night after night. with him was alt-right, anti-trans, misogyny. And it was, this is who he is. And then you can

17:39 Tell me why you don't like him. you know you know yeah uh because there's just a slime trail after these attacks which I know him. to form a stereotype or something But it's a weird, it's a weird gig, you know, to also have and then to be talking to people That's the big one. If you're self-sufficient, if you have a job and you get fired from that job. That's the big one.

20:09 I know. a there's a level of frustration that's undeniable and one thing that people just because of the fact that they have a low-level, That's what was clearly being done to, it was being done to you. Right. A number of things I know enormous number of people why the last couple of years about vaccines? about election integrity? And what do you think about vaccines and what do you think about ivermectin and what do you think about BLM and what do you think about Trump and what do you think about election integrity

23:21 that's not my thing. But definitely because it became a big thing would have been useful to have studied. My thing is like, look, I wish then I had to go back and edit it. You're mad that I'm not, I can't believe you're not willing to. Like why is this happening? You know, I can't I can't cope with that. And I it's one of my self-imposed rules of my life.

26:49 and have logical that you're a good person and send that signal out so everybody knows that Right. I think, I can't remember if we talked about this before, and you're introduced to the facts And we are capable of reason and rationalism. That's why they hold on to things they know are kind of indefensible still. mind in the last couple of years as i've seen people going off what I regard as a reservation.

30:26 we encountered a universal enemy that was scary to some people and not as scary to others so there He trains UFC fighters at the Performance Institute in Singapore. have to work out by themselves so they're doing solo workouts to prepare for fights it's crazy with this new strain that's essentially like a cold yeah yes it's a contagious You know, there was that moment at the beginning of the pandemic which was almost, a friend of mine said, it's almost romantic, isn't it?

32:36 And then that sort of moment of realizing it wasn't that, to everyone go out onto the streets and protest And if this is what we're being told it is, I mean, you know, my favorite are friends who I know What? Yeah. Right. People find it very hard to say, I go, but I do think this, there's definitely not zero election fraud. I think that there are very righteous people that they're ideological zealots, and if they're working in some sort of an election poll place, and they can fuck with things, and they can hide ballots, or if they're in a very Democrat-heavy place, they might throw some of the ballots away.

37:12 of having election after election, but they don't necessarily cause them. And that's the thing. they'd lost in, that'd be four years not working out do some really interesting soul searching. And so you just go round and round with the same bullshit. Right. that only think in terms of good and bad, And that's one of the things that I think people found very scary is that this cult

41:01 obviously some of you on January 6 were just disgusted and deserved what they got. or it wasn't the point. going to be um you're not going to be able to believe anyone in the country all the media is I still can't get over this thing of Twitter and Facebook and co. They should be, you know, lose their reputations, whatever can This whatever it was, 80 people from the NSA and the CIA and so on, they all gave their

43:21 Yeah. people say there was manipulation, there was. At that And it's being released by one of the oldest newspapers in America, the New York Post. And they did. You made that decision? There should have been serious repercussions. The trans swimmer. You get banned. What's the name? Leah Thomas was born following. I was very tempted, but I just need to keep

46:56 But she's a she. it was the same week as And you know the same week, like the day before, before using a sex toy on herself in an alleyway How many times are they going to use female pronouns? which three children saw as they were in a car driving past. I'm reading about this. Yeah. I don't think that women often do this kind of stuff. So you've heard of these cases.

50:51 and it turns out he exposes a dick. Well, yeah, I have said that. I owe the insight to Camille Padley, who I think made it first, we know. Boys and girls. anything can be can be shoved on you if you if you agree to that and or don't or pretend you like yogi type people and guru type people right people that were running like these weird little Yeah.

53:38 Well, it's, I mean, just if you read the tenets of the religion. Actually, if there were more Mormons, it wouldn't be so bad. I wonder if it's the same with societies. It's just, it is part of what we are. is a sort of very watered down version of a little bit of Christianity. Yes. Christopher Hitchens certainly did. and that's and that's not the point then you're in life of brian territory aren't you like you

57:42 and then even better if you can have like a godlike figure Jordan or something. a phrase I love, taking you to places some really interesting you still see his books in some places. and it's something about the fact that he's dead now and then like you said it decades ago it's people that complain online and they think of themselves as activists because they're

1:01:27 They're doing this thing. a bad idea of who i am if they say hi i go hi how you doing right and then you're zoo and a monkey climbed on a pole and snatched a seagull out of the sky and beat it to death it's why that's a wild video I thought that was you know fast because the hawk right flew up from its um perch his perch on the arm of and the whole country fell.

1:04:31 Yeah. They did nothing wrong. Just like mental illness. It's a weird have you read it no I haven't have you not? No. God, I was going to test you on it. Like, whenever anyone pretends to have read your book, where there's certain taboo subjects or there's certain subjects worry me in recent years because when if you were to tell any group of people that there was something wrong with them from birth, like something evil about them, you're setting

1:08:03 copies immediately after the death of George Floyd. I mean, she also knows how to make... do that shouldn't do it about any group of people but it would it's a wild thing to attempt to do But then to try to paint it with this insane broad Oh, not only did he withdraw, but days later he had an explanation of it. No. It's good to feel that guilty. She might be a giant.

1:11:28 talking about and like shut up like said I'm going to shut you down. white ladies $4,000 was the mythical beast in question. But it's not the only story of America. And every society was doing it um which is no excuse for it In Britain and Europe, it's about colonialism, obviously. And it becomes this Like, people don't want to do that. But it's become this massive subject in our societies.

1:15:22 Have done. Right. He talked about white rage when he did that. What do you think was going on there? idea like if we actually talked in the culture about black rage as being a separate all sorts of reasons we have privilege in our the government came and asked them to come to war and they went to war and got drowned at sea. likely to get fucked with which is that just means there's a problem with cops pulling over black

1:19:13 Same thing with gays. way in which the past is being got a good reason to feel pride in your country What's fascinating is that this is a rare and I worry about those because subterranean conversations, As I say, there seems to be no viability in telling majority populations to think horribly of themselves for the rest of time. what do you do with the people who are half descended from slavers and half from slaves? What do you do about the people? I mean, Voltaire said in the 18th

1:22:59 You touch on one of my conversational G spots. after they'd done their kneeling for nine minutes, into an upright position so then they did that they're all way past Everything they do about it with members of the Black Caucus Like, you think relevant, and keep making money in the stock market. I just don't understand how she keeps getting elected. Yeah, I just don't get it

1:25:14 did this show and I said to a friend I was with I was like the thing is there's it's something I write about in the book. If you look in a year. and I think this is a media thing, funnily enough. on in their country. So that the focus actually makes people think something else worse is Like, do they do that? So it's actually provable that Americans have a distorted view of what's going on in their own country in relation to these matters, which is not helping matters.

1:29:35 But the campus goes into lockdown. Somebody finds a shoelace hung on a hook outside their room and says it's a noose. Please go. But the point is that the places where it's least likely to happen, it's like the evergreen thing, are the places with this distorted. And then you get to reflect on the fact that they are a minority and they're not treated

1:31:45 That's reasonable. We want white people to stay home, stay out. You've got a small supply of racists. Isn't that that you make up for the past by but by making one group better in the present But if we have to think of ourselves in these terms, I'm not better than them. searching for reasons to not be part of the majority and to claim to be victims. Because

1:34:57 You're not going to... They have. in order to make up for historic racism. amok on college campuses. And people would be like, hey, man, why are you complaining about Because conservatives in the U.S. used to say very smugly in recent years, you know, And it's a self-reproducing organism. So there was a fear attached to any sort of pushback. you can...

1:37:56 was that aside from that, it's quite hard to prove somebody's a misogynist. And you can't disprove it ever completely. And one of the only ways I've ever found for like trying to counter it is how about if we got to a position where the people who throw those allegations around and know they're not true pay a reputational price of equivalent size so for instance

1:40:20 more far-right ideology and then it'll eventually like meet somewhere in the There's no debate about it. into Ukraine and starts bombarding Ukrainian cities and its civilians. care about complaints of human rights. I also say towards the end, They give me enormous hope for America because these are just. They're the people you want. them just want to see the whole damn thing burn um but you you cannot war on the foundations of an entire society and think that you're going to get away with it without any repercussions

1:44:46 and where to go and all these things. Like, I wonder what your perspective is in terms of where is this headed? You know, having different views is so last century. I don't know how I can reach them apart from, and they're in a kind of unreachable place. has their own gods and that I think that's true it's not just they have They think it must get easier and easier.

1:48:01 Like if I mention a certain person, past. And so I feel that atomization very, very strongly to the extent that when somebody Yeah. is to try to think of things that you can agree on. Friend of mine used to say, if you talk as a nation about we, and it's like that with nations as well. a little less bad at the moment but I nice to agree on a few good things

1:51:49 There's some people that enjoy conflict. Yeah, I'm so uncontroversial at dinner. so much more exactly i thought it was a firebrand yeah lamb yeah well people will probably bring you to me afterwards, she actually did go nuts But yes, it's very, very unusual for me to be able to get a rise in my spirit. and it's like some crazy thing, We've also conned people into thinking that everyone is special and that sort of when you add that to this feeling of not having agency or not – like they're not treating you the way you deserve to be treated.

1:54:26 They don't sleep enough. And then you have to deal with that or they'll become non-binary, which is my favorite. That's all you have to do. I hate that one. you're a normal heterosexual guy. is that is a result of the fact that there's a Christian ethic god bit out of it and you try to instill as a society the idea that everyone is This is why this whole idea of equality of outcome is such a fucked way of looking at things,

1:57:22 Some people are just fucked. you're not you shouldn't be treated better you shouldn't have better laws that apply to you But not in terms of what they've accomplished or what they're capable of because of the And meanwhile, you look like a woman. and you know very well and I realized Hmm. Luck is the residue of design. Luck is the residue of design.

2:01:36 It's luck in that you were born here as opposed to Mogadishu. this was the day to talk about laws, but rights were more attractive to talk about. Don't do any of that stuff. And it's You know, they have yet. They have the same energy sources There was a big part of the motto of what it meant to be an American. before he was ever a political commentator for Fox.

2:05:17 You know, that's completely true. I see a friend, Chris Williamsonson later he and I had this discussion recently it's not totally unfair but the money is held by people who've inherited it. it and gambled it and had less. But whereas america and i noticed it all the time in america in the system i i i really do love it in america there there is this feeling of you know it's it's like

2:07:20 and a kind of sense that if – Billy Connolly used to talk about that, He's got dementia. And so the funniest guy in the pub in Glasgow he he found it shocking that he would go over back to australia and he couldn't sell tickets It's not like, what do you mean above myself? I love that. fact that if you put the work in yeah then you you deserve the rewards yeah and um and you haven't

2:10:15 So they will rail against exceptional people. And I was reading a lot on the nature of resentment Yeah. How many decisions did you make to be who you are now? and now it's time to use that information and apply it to the rest of my life? And saying, you know what, I'm not right. i agree i think it's important but i would just say that there is there is one rider to that which

2:13:16 And either people like it or don't like it. Well, I fucked up. right it's everything yeah same for me freedom and truth freedom is though and find your own whether it's i hate that to like find yourself or find your identity but important decision in your life, in my experience, is you think, oh, I imagine this is going to happen all the time. Anyhow, at this point, I realized I've got to get a job.

2:16:44 And I remember applying for the job and I couldn't in the short term. is perfectly achievable. You're 60 and you thought. And it's not going to is the semi-memoir book, Yeah. You're a fucking successful author. and late nights and constant, like, constant work. And secondly, no, I think that there is definitely an element of luck, And I like that. Yes.

2:21:20 I'm terrible at it. when I come back I'm fucking rare and ready to go And I'm diving back into it and I enjoy it. Well, the youngest ones I have are 11 and 13, and then I have a 25-year-old. where i can see her as often as i can and you know i want to make sure that i spend as much time with families are interesting to people why dynast fascinated by hereditary yeah like that's why royal families

2:24:22 Someone who's trying to show the world that she's special but Wow her personality's not like that at all like And also fueled. trying to hurt people and i was also doing this very dangerous thing where i was trying to learn whatever that is that people take out I use on my keyboard mmm writing yeah if I But it was just cocaine and alcohol. They think that if you look under the bonnet, the car will stop working.

2:27:58 and the horrible, horrible instincts getting rid of all these things in his life cigarettes are one of them cocaine alcohol and there's a hunger when you're, there's some energy there. you're much more rageful see yourself in some kind of if they do a pile of Coke and a load of beer. Fantastic. Oh, God damn it. That's a problem. and you read it the next day and go

2:31:33 And this journalist came to him and wanted to find out what Hunter Thompson did in a day. 3.45, cocaine. 415, cocaine. 6pm, grass to take the edge off. 9pm, cocaine. champagne, Dove bars, Fettuccine Alfredo, 8 a.m halcyon 8 20 sleep how the hell how the hell did He could only do it for a certain amount of time. Why that in the middle of like... About you could do whatever the hell you want

2:35:14 And then also deteriorated horrifically towards the end of his life. He couldn't walk anymore. He's like, I burned the candle at both ends, but what a lovely flame it created. And he said, I thought I'd earned it. And he worked hard enough to have deserved to be able to take the foot off his own, you know, demon accelerator. they don't give up cigarettes.

2:37:34 Oh, sure. Yeah. And they got, like my friend, he's passed. there's this guy dick doherty who also was in the program who started you know he inspired a bunch yourself too like we should all be grateful for a lot of things there's many many many things you I thought, oh, God damn, what's he going to say? Jordan, isn't this fucking this right and it was just such a it was a wonderful moment of mutual enthusiasm about

2:40:46 like looking up like, this is fucking crazy. Yes. Yeah, and you can live like this. success. Who's brilliant? There's lots of ways, Gore Vidal, who's brilliant in lots of ways, but Gore Vidal famously that was a pretty shitty thing I mean, that's fantastic. His debates with William F. Buckley were fantastic. No. I know. I was like, wow, that's fantastic.

2:44:38 move into gorvydar's old house that would be pretty fucking amazing but the thing is like Like how often would I do this? And they both knew how to speak in paragraphs. awful weird I think yeah yeah and a friend of mutual friends said that's He had lots of friends in common. He had that great, awful, weird eye thing. because Buckley does it whenever he scores a palpable hit.

2:46:45 Young Chomsky debating Buckley was very fascinating. No. i don't want to paraphrase yeah yeah because i forget well we should probably now that i brought having these views on every American military escapade mmm he had. It was all very idiosyncratic, very, I thought, conspiratorial are doing something stupid while the podcast is going off they must be banging they're saying it's time to work out or something i think they probably probably are we're done bloody hell

2:49:52 don't say a word just say it's marvelous wouldn't it I mean I think at a certain And they pulled the body away in front of the audience. Yeah, exactly. Now they're connected to this idea the last person they had sex with fucking shingles vaccine or whatever and i still get my period what yes Never got COVID. Well, it's not funny, really. There's something to that.

2:53:07 But there's so many videos of people talking about forcing mandates, forcing vaccines, and then they black out while they're doing it. she got her shot yeah it's a weird thing it's not for everybody but it's a it's a real thing it's a weird thing. It's not for everybody, but it's a real thing. It's like she's joking around about this, I've done the audio version.

2:54:03 I really love it because when you do an audio version of a book, and I did for producer, I'm sorry, I'm When I'm typing up what she says, Of course. And actually, a lot of people, as you know, a lot of people listen to audiobooks now, i'm listening well i think it's a great medium and uh i think it's great fun to do and it's great fun it's definitely better

2:56:15 Well, for me, it's a great pleasure. And it brings you a whole new audience, you know? really appreciate you i i love your work i love the fact that you're out there it's uh there's and this, The War on the West. If you buy these three, you're well set.