Joe Rogan Experience #1842 — Andrew Huberman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the Joe Rogan experience like he would go out and just get plastered. And the next day, you know, he's all fresh and your forebrain shuts down a little bit person who's doing a case a day or at the party and just shot for shot and just looking like 80% of college students will rely on ADHD meds, quote unquote, recreationally, not prescribed. use of the drug. And then it also does work for enhancing focus, right?

3:35 disorder or hyperactivity disorder, you don't always have the hyperactivity. What you find is Great. But these kids, if prove that if you like something, you can focus. Part of that is probably due to the phone. I thought it was in the reverse, but I'm open to hear it. interested in them at all, even though the safety margins are huge. So you say, why wouldn't they

6:24 we've got some stuff that's about to expire. This $300 a month drug is $10. Yeah. So in terms of the aggression, this is really interesting. Or in animals, if you stimulate them, the animals go into a rage. In fact, there are these videos online. put this animal into a cage alone and stimulate it looks pretty normal it doesn't do anything so and start mating. You stimulate the other group of neurons and they will try and kill the other

9:42 pattern of stimulation, you get mating behavior. And it turns out that the neurons are mixed in there like salt and pepper. David Anderson's lab figured out in fact, people heard me say that last time and said, But what's crazy is you stop stimulating the animal just goes back to doing whatever. this drove me to start looking at different mating behaviors of animals online. Like if you watch

11:46 genes that pass on. You need a strong animal. And so they express themselves in this aggressive way to prove to the female that they're strong enough to mate and procreate. Like, what is the reason Like how come a cat doesn't try and mate with the dog? Now the dog might hump, but that's a different thing of opioid pain relief thing that gets released during sexual activity. Pain threshold goes way

13:46 your brain that are for disgust that are about getting you away from that thing because it's Obviously, people have their different proclivities. Well, I've been reading up on this because I'm fascinated by the primitive in addition to the So a good friend of mine, Eddie Chang, he's the chair of neurosurgery at UCSF. But has anybody done it? manipulation. And he's told me that he's been poking, you can't poke around at random, right?

16:20 rage, switches for all these things. I mean, that's like the psychologist Carl Jung, you know, this idea that we have all things inside of us. It's related to another molecule that's involved in pain relief called substance P that we all make. It goes through the roof and what happens? develop but you're saying what that's about but we're not oh sorry the the the

18:29 that he was born with a bad brain. He might've been born with a dysfunctional brain, but social They found him in the Lower East Side walking around. He was a loner. I know what you're saying. cause they have a company's based on this, but unfortunately for, for kind of the exploratory And so in the- memory from one guy who had both his hippocampi lesioned because he had epilepsy in his hippocampi.

21:56 And you'd walk out and come back in and say, hi, who are you? interesting questions about consciousness and novelty. Is it the same person? Okay. Like while you're doing it, Some of it, ah, Sometimes I saw you do a question and answer part at the end. I mean, I think that for us, we were just thinking like, wow, like you're for two scientists, I hope he comes back.

25:16 Maybe that's his move. We actually discussed that on a podcast I did with him on his podcast. I get texts from him at like four in the morning. But you get up early, right? Yeah. tons of things. But we can generally say that they modin, they do a lot of different things. They're involved in tons of things. chug. As serotonin and other molecules kick in, which is later in the day and at night,

28:09 a little bit of alcohol, a little bit of cannabis to put their brain into that kind of And, you know, Tim used a like a real problem with substances and he says he does his podcast really late at night like they don't even start filming until like after midnight is that why he's got the aviators Ketamine's not legal, but please, I can't imagine snorting ketamine is good.

29:55 on something and it has the capacity to create brain change in a very dramatic way. Why reprogram the machine unless there's a need? That person is in a state of shock or it seems like it is pretty rampant use now, at that seems to be the key I mean, but even when you know that it's definitely happening to you, you know that you are also sometimes not burdened by those feelings.

32:14 It doesn't define you. depression, it's the exact opposite. It's this incredible work that Matthew Johnson and colleagues I don't know how they dose these, And I said, what's the key thing? control it, without trying to tamp it down or ramp it up, just be in it. What kind of experience thing is that they kind of feel overwhelmed, but then they feel supported enough by the therapist

35:07 Maybe it just has to do with getting the person I mean, overwhelmingly, One of the weird things they found out when they started studying blah, blah, blah. And psychedelics basically mimic that. And he may very well be right. He may very well be right. Isn't it like when the body processes it, isn't it something like 4-4-aloxy-N-N-dimethyltryptamine?

37:50 In my youth, you know. I was part of a clinical trial looking at, uh, this was originally intended to be three dose of thinking about all sorts of things like, I have unusual number of deaths and losses in my life Yeah. I think there's real benefit in those things, whether it's MDMA or psilocybin, visual well it just actually improves your visual which is really weird um i forget who the the

41:11 they move one slightly off parallel, the people on psilocybin were able to detect it quicker and has written about trauma, wrote the book on trauma for alcohol, right? is to narrow attention and focus. kind of new rules and algorithms genetics, their biology, whatever it is that they've had in their past. I know people that done all the time you smoke a little pot you're like what am I doing let's fucking relax a little

45:21 Normally, I'm just trying to warm up. And that's super powerful. We had the nerd in me once said in neuroscience, they call that interoception. Like people vary tremendously in their awareness of their internal state. You can know if you have a high or low degree of interoception by trying to count your heartbeats without taking your pulse. Some people can just do that. It's a skill you can build up over time. This is great for some people, but some people are highly anxious. It sucks to have a lot of interoception.

46:51 and he would know the exact number. you can imagine that those workouts would be more effective in that way. That's so sad. is what contracts fibers. because he's so odd, John Jones. And now he's like a legit 255 pounds. But if you look at elite sprinters, Olympic sprinters, they'll have big legs. But his explosiveness out of those calves is probably met by that short muscle belly.

50:10 Long arms and legs. Exactly. you know, I know one of the ways I know it's a real issue is we didn't get a And so we did third-party tests on some of our stuff. Now, there's also unscrupulous companies that will add steroids to their products just to But the positive amount was so Yeah, I like Derek a lot. But he calls bullshit on a lot of guys in the UFC.

54:27 He blocked him on social media. He's like a freak specimen. which is up to 200 milligrams per week. hundreds of supplements yeah or because it works yes you know last time i was on here we talked And it also hardens people up. and a lot of doctors prescribe it for this But it's very fast acting. in competitions where they're not testing there's a lot of girls that are taking things

58:23 Like, I mean, some jjitsu competitions test, but they kind of test in the realm of the old UFC testing where it's really just an IQ test. also contaminated the public discussion. Like I really appreciate that years ago, And if it wasn't good, why would I take it? of cypionate and reasonable dosage with the doctor, you feel better. You effort feels good.

1:00:46 that's actually worse for prostate health. I know someone who's a professional basketball player That's going to put- No, they're taking one of those a week is what they're allowed to take. so half a CC on Monday, half a CC on Thursday, right? That's a, that's a reasonable thing, but that's still a lot. It's still a lot. I mean, half a cc on Thursday, right? That's a reasonable thing.

1:02:22 right? You just think about that. we're talking is it 0.15 or 1.5 1.5 so like you know like if 1 cc is 10 so you're Just to the number one out of 10. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. When you get to 10, that's one cc. Correct. I take one and a half. Either they're going to come after me to fix it. You know, I was reading something about that with sleep deprivation and jet lag.

1:04:59 I just know that that happened in a WNBA game like last week. down to a guy that should have been in his 50s. By the 2014-2015 season, Royer and his staff had fully committed to their investigation Yeah, I mean, I get called a lot, do some work with military, first half of the day. Number one thing for just making sure that you sleep well that night and

1:07:10 This kind of thing. increases testosterone and estrogen, There's always this kind of negotiating. This is what makes TRT kind of a tricky topic, but more seasonal depression for sure. So this is a really cool mechanism. It's what makes you feel fatigued. like really push that off so that the adenosine i used to go to and they would have these meatball subs. They were fucking sensational. And sausage and pepper subs is like an old time Italian deli. And every time I would

1:11:08 I try and limit it, I feel like I ate glue. found was pretty stunning. I try and eat plain rice or oatmeal when I do eat the clean carbs if there is such a thing Countdown. talk was that people who live in rural areas because of the use of pesticides, that sperm counts and testosterone counts are way, way down. But I would think that would be from, I don't know, maybe it's just the way my...

1:13:57 That's something that they would talk about. But when they say the average person, it's like, it's a little. I don't know if you get away with it. I mean, I feel like you can do things to offset some of the damage, like getting sunlight, Yeah. Because they were saying that how many how much of wheat is contaminated with glyphosate. And they were saying that may be what people are calling gluten sensitivities with some folks.

1:16:47 life, I want to keep going. But I worry, I think about the school shooting thing. I worry about at this point that everybody has to take responsibility for their own health. And that's spheres and there's no there's no solution to come from that yeah the liver king thing drives me Just the rare genetic freaks. So there's no evidence that I am aware of

1:19:39 using radioactive labeling of organs, there's no evidence that eating testicles, for instance, or not there's say a blood brain barrier, which keeps a lot of stuff out of the brain or blood It is true that liver is one of the most choline dense foods in the world, far more than an egg, far more than any vegetable or nut specifically to your liver, that seems kind of crazy. Now there's also this idea,

1:22:28 brain. Okay. I have seen those before. They're delicious. I was thinking the outside shell was and that there's some foods that eating them, even though they do have these defense chemicals, but also eating some meat, et cetera. In terms of plants being bad for us, I mean, And I've talked to Paul and other serious colleagues or not there are a lot of non-protein amino acids. But these things act in a sort of prion-like way when they get into the brain,

1:25:26 What was their conclusion? everyone would say don't smoke the seeds it'll make you sterile people used to say that but they were high that's funny that I was in Really? They're actually great-looking kids. The question is, So he's like the size of a five-year-old at two. They talked about his, something about his, he's 26 pounds at the age of one, put on over

1:28:38 of some, some of their features. Are women aware of that, that, that, that stuff has estrogen But then people can pop melatonin like it was M&Ms and they give it to their kids serious between the Dr. Shana Swan stuff about phthalates. And so I had a genetic test recently and I actually have a mutation in an androgen receptor. Now that didn't make me super strong. I wasn't a super impressive athlete or anything like that. But this particular mutation probably is what allowed me to work really long hours. It relates to kind of cortisol production and things like that.

1:30:34 like I can work very, very long hours is like, it feels like a lot. Plus I run my lab, but that just feels like a lot. But I asked you a I'm like, kind of. Talk to Jamie when I have to do ads. I have to do them three or four times. Right. There's like a real lesson in that for people. If you can find a thing that pong ball into the thing and win a goldfish. Well, I loved aquarium goldfish, but I knew

1:32:56 I was like six or seven and I didn't charge for it. but a certain neighbor has some very high-level security next to them, right? choose who they protect. What do you say? You elect him, we protect him. And I said, something like that. And they'll ask me a question. I'll say, well, actually I had a guest on my just like you were saying, Yeah, the interviews are fun,

1:35:04 I love that it's hard. And then, and as I kind of ratchet through it and kind of go through the Oh, absolutely. That's hilarious. You know, they're really interesting guys. they were going to be like, oh, you know, Wow. Yeah. Amazing. That's great. What they showed was that they figured out the thresholds for how much deliberate cold exposure you need and how much sauna for it to really start having beneficial effects.

1:38:35 Neuroscientists are nice people. of powerlessness. And that's going to vary person to person, even day to day. But if you get people into that for is that you get this 2.5X increase in dopamine that lasts many hours after the cold exposure. Or in the study that was published Oh God. the blue cube or whatever. Yeah, the blue cube is what we have here. I like, you know, the interesting

1:41:34 if you try not to huddle or you go hands in feet in. Yeah, no, I go up to my chin. Pull it up so we can see her. I met her in person when I was over there in Scandinavia. We didn't cold plunge, but- Now there's some growing evidence. There's a, she hashtags sober principle. So there's this It sucks. then I always go That's a brisket. actually burning my throat like I was I was my voice was and it was and I was realizing you

1:45:22 afterwards. That dopamine rise is real. epinephrine and norepinephrine, you're alert, you feel better. Your RPM are set higher. myself but share. There's a paper that came out that showed, well, there's based on observation, heats up locally the tissue and they're seeing a systemic increase in body fat utilization you your fat. are those legit? in body fat utilization again

1:48:47 Because they potentially look hot in them. I thought there was something else. Oh, okay. It's like, what's going on with infrared light? So this is not a new idea, my friend Glen Jeffries' lab showing where they've shown some real efficacy in good studies. One is for wound healing and acne. There really does seem to be some therapeutic repair of tissue. The other is the eye stuff. So exposure to red light and near infrared light, as long as it's not too intense and you have to be over 40 to see the effect, et cetera. But there are real improvements in vision in animal models and humans.

1:50:56 So that's why the red part is important, Probably would assist in maybe Yeah, she does that. It's not just about viewing it with your eyes. in rats I mean, Self-care, perineum, perinium sunning day. Next up, 42 cold plunges, nine saunas, five hours of It's kind of like listed there that has increases and all that stuff. thing. Maybe it doesn't get as hot,

1:53:56 It's something to supplement with. Just for infrared light. You can actually look at those red lights and it's not damaging for your eyes. You don't want to get too close. I mean, Because it's really bright, just like a tanning bed or something. of thumb you know getting healthy amounts of sunlight as long as you don't your skin doesn't If you bite your cheek, it heals almost perfectly like newborn skin.

1:57:00 sunscreen. Yeah. So, so there are two areas, aside from nutrition, that I feel like are really hot-button issues. Yeah. So sometimes it's really that way. But I would say 99.9% of things that come back have been supportive or critical in a way that's rational. Sunscreen and EMFs are like the two third rail across the blood brain barrier would be bad. One of those things?

1:59:27 my wheelhouse. I'm researching this for a future episode. This is really a place where I want to, taken off market for years for all the wrong reasons. I mean, taken off for good reason, And clearly it's going to be a really inconvenient thing to do that. Yeah. on record saying that some of the very scientists who say, oh, like, don't even worry about this.

2:02:19 Well, and I think, you know, we go back to Liver King and some of the other more colorful aspects of online nutrition and health information. People wonder, I actually saw some, I made the human mistake of of just say whatever and grab a huge,. But let me push back against that because they're just, how would someone who's a legitimate a thing. Or, I mean, or more realistically go on your podcast. I mean, that's what I was saying.

2:03:57 You know, like how many people? investigators. We've had, you know, we've got a few future Nobel prize winners and Nobel prize And these, you know, how many people are looking at these peer reviewed papers? don't like that, that person has millions of followers and you's because people have an appetite for these things and if you don't like Concentrating whether it's nutrition or whatever it is which which I agree with you, there is this weird sort of... I don't know what that's about.

2:06:43 Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's very smart. I mean, and he does a really good job at finding those people and pointing those things out. I'm not talking about him when I'm talking about bickering, really. you see it from a lot of these like vegan people and all dose and there might be some individual variation. some other study that maybe you weren't aware of and you add that to it as long

2:10:05 defense chemicals the this the that the that this he's very committed to like a complete animal his body with junk food. I think pesticides are bad. Republicans, Democrats, libertarians, gun owners, only the Democrats have the answers to this, to that, the other things, or if you're a person for your very existence being valid. And it's very strange because people equate themselves,

2:13:24 It's like, just talk about the idea. Just don't, God damn it. Calling people morons, calling people assholes. It's like, It's very bizarre. and I define curiosity as being interested in something It's just very difficult to get people to sit down and have civil conversations which is it the town square, or is it a private company? Not challenged, because we attach our idea to our own self-value

2:16:20 on a number of things or willing to have that. I'm like, God, you're so sloppy and lazy. And they ask you questions until you say, I don't know. absolutely right. But the moment you say, I don't know, that's when you are allowed to pass up to the next level in science. And then you become a doctor of science. But it's a complicated dance that human beings do because your ego is involved and your reputation is involved. And for a lot of people, that's a lot of who they are. A lot of who they are is

2:19:12 things can get really diverted. I mean, I tend to not respond to comments too often. Occasionally, Don't do that so bad for you, too It's robbing you of whatever you could be doing to increase your proficiency in something, And the other one is I know I don't generally get angry anyway. So I'm right, I mean just at a top contour, 45 minutes or an hour. How cold is your cold thing? It goes to, I said it about 45. I'm not

2:22:44 Right. But that's weight loss. There's other benefits. And I have no bias. to fasting over caloric restriction for weight loss or something like that And then some of the smaller news sites got it somewhere in the middle. And I don't, I'm not trying to heal acne or anything, three or four times a week did this study in humans showing that with positron emission tomography imaging, so brain

2:25:19 all sounds kind of magic carpety and acts as a barrier for people. I try and stretch and do that sort of thing. It turns out it's not sitting there and being thankful. asking for gratitude and that's not my style, I like to think my ego is at least slightly more The data show that gratitude and avoiding toxic people And so I've tried to incorporate more of that stuff

2:28:04 Like that has to have some sort of effect on your physiology. depressed and things are bad and you're lonely and you feel shitty, like that doesn't feel good. I hope they live to be another 20 years more, Like none of the things I described are something that you can just take and it's all done. And of with intermittent fasting is that you give yourself structure.

2:30:21 oh, I'm going to cut back on my drinking, what does that even mean? Everybody I know that says that. What alcohol do you actually enjoy? And I don't smoke, but I have to say I used to smoke the occasional cigarette when I was in graduate school. I mean, I know where that line is for me. It's not good. They're as big as a cell phone but thicker. McDonald's filet of fish. Oh, they're delicious. Terrible for you. But it was one of those things

2:32:54 It's unbelievable. it's like, come on, you know, You know, I used to... Do risky behaviors adrenaline used to be a vice you know i i used to do risky behaviors this is 2017 went out bunch of a bunch of friends, Brian McKenzie, who's kind of a performance guy and former SEAL team guy. coming in all over the place and they're huge i mean the girth is insane but i'm in the cage and

2:34:54 So I dropped down to the corner. I've got a weight belt on and I'm like, okay, I guess I shoot for the surface because I can see Oh, yeah, that's me there. deep cage there's a surface cage in a deep cage so then what happened yeah muller shot that for who does these adventures. typical of those guys. He was like, so what do you take away from that experience? And I was like,

2:37:26 almost dying, in fact, I don't even like to say that, If you don't, if you shoot for the surface or something, not you went to the surface. And so, but when you go up to the surface, do you go back in the cage to go back up to the surface? And then a couple of years ago, out of what seemed like nowhere, Ocean Ramsey, this female Her husband shot this footage from what I understand.

2:39:41 you know, If I was a shark, even the way her legs are with that outfit on, she looks delicious. oh, there's someone else. She's petting it or he's petting it. Yeah, these people are out of their fucking mind. Yeah, they're out of their minds the um They were putting the bloody fish on their hip and getting munched. Is it just because of the high amount of tuna?

2:41:37 Yeah. off? One of them jackass guys? Those guys are crazy, shooting themselves out of cannons. Yeah, I do like junk food occasionally. I do like to drink But I'm around a very boozy culture. because when he was doing really poorly, he decided to go back on stage. had to put him in the chair and then they had to crank up the sound like like but I know a lot of people that did a lot of cocaine in the 70s and the 80s,

2:45:04 It seems likely. You're saying the Wuhan lab? Right. And then later they discovered that what they had given them was not what they thought. I don't know if he did anything. That doesn't help. heart attacks five or six years after they stopped doing a lot of cocaine. It's the long arc. your life is i mean i don't know how much you can really extend. Here's the deal. It's like we really don't have a lot of data on people that started working out when they were like in their early teens and kept going, supplementing their hormones, supplementing vitamins, supplementing, and then got into their 50s and 60s and 70s.

2:49:16 One of the things they do is they get fat and they stop. Like legitimate work. Like, this is her mother. And Jessie, she does those Ninja Warrior competitions and, like I said, a lot of stunt work as well. Injuries are a big problem because injuries require a long time where you're going to have to at least be semi-sedentary and let your body relax. At the very least, you're not going to be

2:52:13 For years, she studied memory. Improving focus, stress resilience, cognitive function. for the brain also. It absolutely is. And her work is now being transferred into basically curriculum That's ridiculous. But that is a prejudice that many really intelligent people otherwise intelligent people have yeah, well a my scientific great grandparents, 96 years old,

2:54:56 It's just this unfortunate prejudice that people adopt and then have a very difficult time shedding. They see it as over there when they don't realize that, Right and who function like melting it they sleep with their mouth open they have sleep apnea their ability is linked to their being unhealthy so you're like what if i fuck it up what if i lose it you know that's it's a fleeting thing as it is

2:57:55 of time thinking, you know, he's not flippant in his perceptions and his thoughts. That's the most is weird because like, it's not just you're doing two hours of comedy. You're doing two hours. It's I've been there before and I've had bad shows because of that. and you're going to need that in about two hours. the people out there listening. You see them.

3:00:07 You're just telling people about chlorine? And I appreciate your podcast We're super fortunate that we have these kind of platforms, that this exists, because this has never been a thing in history before. Bye, everybody.