Joe Rogan Experience #1855 — Chris Best Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. person. And so great writing matters a lot. In my other life, I do software. Software is this of incentives on the internet, basically complaining, uh, wow, wow, wow. Social media rejected from the places where they would have been before. My theory on this is that it's a combination of natural human affairs. And so you had this sort of, the game that everyone played was like,

4:06 Be bad. I see people arguing over things and things that are trending that have zero impact in It's just too uh, Yeah. And none of that stuff is new. None of the bad things that people do on social pay you directly. Now you're getting hired and fired by your readers. It's this super, it sounded Well, he, I mean, he, so he'd had this newsletter that he'd been writing for free

8:09 Like how did it start to really become a player? like, here's what we're doing and why. Do you guys get resistance? Because I know there were It's like, you know, writers on the Internet, social media is bad. in its bad time for a bunch of things. Probably the most prominent of which is we started with that I don't want to put anyone on blast let's just talk about like subjects like

10:57 Yeah, it's wild. We do. Not because we think those things are good, For any individual, I think anybody that exists could find someone on Substack that they think Do you allow erotica? I don't think that's wrong, but that's just not the thing that we're trying to serve. and things on, on COVID vaccines that a lot of people seen hesitancy and he's like what the fuck are you doing and that kind of stuff like publishing stuff that makes people uncomfortable but it is actually accurate it's a big part of journalism

14:48 you can publish things. This is your thing. People are trusting you. You're not subscribing band. Yeah, and as soon as you get to the place where you think your job as a platform, now, instead of being a journalist that reports uncomfortable truths even if they don't agree even if the the side that they're supposedly on whether they're There's always efforts to censor them.

18:21 that are just really mad can make it look like the whole world is that hop on any narrative to try to enforce. And the correct response to that is not to censor these people. that you enjoy all the benefits of that without ever having to really think about it. You can forget why it matters, and then as soon as that comes for you, The issue is being deplatformed, where you can't express yourself anymore because whatever

21:27 but it's not even the whole problem. I don't think, I think it's one of the things that's I recommend this? if we were to copy the way that Twitter does this it's the writer that you already subscribe to the same way that people coming on here have there been major critical articles written about sub stack? There's been a few critical ones. Yeah, that's it.

24:29 Maybe. that we shouldn't listen to criticism. not in a way. I mean, they're definitely doing it. What they're doing by complaining about you to truly compete with a show like Breaking Points. And so these other shows thrive, like the Jimmy Dore show and all these shows that highlight And I mean, isn't your show 10 times bigger than the biggest CNN show?

27:38 Didn't they lose some sort of a deal with airports? your perspective? How did you grow up? Like, where did you form these ideas? Like, what was it's sort of ensuring the success of Substack I'm not cheering for the demise of anything, really. that compete with all the left-wing publications. It's very unbalanced. for a slice of people's attention with Twitter,

31:01 Who are some good ones? I'm not even a sports guy. a lot of writers want to like. Why do you ask? There's one woman on Substack who's amazing, Emily Oster. government sources and a few news things and i I understand why it's there. I understand why people feel like to sort out in advance, you could go to and say, I like the example of Isaac Newton, who co-invented calculus, invented a lot of the

35:16 isaac newton wasn't he didn't he also die a virgin i don't know i think he he did. Checks out? I think there was a thing about... alchemy he probably thought he was onto something yeah i mean it's like both of these probably There's a famous video of him having a gunfight with his Look at him. You could have caught him, you know, if you caught him in like 1966, 67, it would have been fun.

38:09 Like you just can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. thing that moves the world forward and And so if you cut it off, This is not fucked with because I've talked to Barry about pieces that she wrote where – I mean there's a thing she wrote about me for the New York Times where they had to change. Right? We rely on the audience for their contribution. And we also rely on other comedians. Like someone will say,

40:44 Everything has to be in one of the apps on your home screen to be in your life. And it turns those last sort of like bastions of direct connection between people that are making things and people that care about them is the source of a lot of the power of the model, So the big thing we've done that's good is we picked a business model that aligns us with the

42:45 And how do we do that in ways that at all is because of the trust and because of the direct connection and so it's sort of like Yeah. When we say algorithm, we mean like something that is showing you stuff in a way to achieve than an algorithm that's trying to introduce you to do, we let the writers pick. And you don't have to pick anyone. You can say, people come to me,

45:35 if you just look at the numbers of like seeing something, there's like a human being that made that decision and I know who they are. And I know that if I'm seeing something, there's like a human being that I was like, Ooh, can you still do the Boston accent? Oh yeah. If I get drunk. Yeah. The thing that success for Substack looks like being an independent company, right?

47:46 Yeah. financially viable solution. Like you, there's obviously a market for People have left. Oh, yeah. Is that what it's called? leave. And then that's how, that's great. But for us, we're like, well, you can leave. Therefore, And you don't have advertising, which seems to, that seems to be where the pressure comes in, and all these things, they sell these things that you can target down to the level of the person.

51:48 they're doing good I genuinely do and they probably have done a lot of good I You're getting some official perspectives. you got like the protestant reformation it was it was a whole thing and i think we're just we're I guess people go to Facebook, too, but I don't read that either. Like my friend Ari did a test once where all he looked up was videos on puppies.

54:41 And then occasionally some deep dive into some world economic forum conspiracy. that worked in these social media companies It really is. Insane. know if we're sure let's buy a wide margin by a wide margin let's not but though. It would be better if we could not. No, for sure. Let's not. By a wide margin. By a wide margin. Let's not. where the people that are in the positions of power,

57:17 massive amplified power because of the way these dynamics work and the way that institutions have i mean and there's some people that it carries over i have some friends that are on twitter too And you're freaking out about some argument that people are having But on the flip side of that, I felt that same way about all the woke chaos that was coming out of universities in like 2014.

59:10 Have you heard about the new one? Good times here. A virus known to kill up to 75% our way because we've always had swine flu and avian flu. Yeah, you pay attention you give them a very viable and often better alternative. over time with people, making your own guess of their integrity, and then being able to find out is that we know what our stance is on these things,

1:03:19 and you're like, actually, I think you should, you know, not give people a platform and not put And I think people have had this experience at this point. It's pretty crazy. Per minute, though. And what is it going to be in five years? Generally, it's by clinical physicians or doctors or people reporting um life extension stuff and health things and

1:06:16 And, you know, like with someone like Matt Taibbi, I love the way he writes. to broadcast this to people. and then when Barry left the New York Times parents wanted them to or whatever. And so you're starting to see people on Substack who become professional writers on the platform. And you start to get perspectives that otherwise never You literally can press the Voice Notes app on your phone and you could, bam, make a podcast.

1:08:33 it's pretty wild in that regard. The barrier for entry is, is much lower. So you're going to have Do you believe in audience capture? Do you think about this? one direction or the other i was reading a good sub stack piece about this yesterday this guy And that's a good idea. That thing can like go really, you know destroyed this guy's life. I think well an argument against that is mr. Beast

1:12:05 He makes this fun video about it. but yet is not, in fact, he's become more charitable, Yeah. And the irony of that, no pun intended, is that it's probably less successful in the long run, but audience capture yeah it's real and um i i I try very hard to make sure that I don't We're very easily influenced whether we like it or not. to the influence of everything that I read and see.

1:15:44 You have to have discipline in any sort of thing you're doing, I'm going that way. We wouldn't be successful if there wasn't something for every new show. Why did you ask about audience capture? is this a recipe for audience capture, right? Is this a thing where if I, you know, if I notice what's going to get me subscribers, can I get pulled into this thing? You know, I think a lot

1:18:07 Yeah or how do you avoid how do you avoid changing in a way you don't want to change like what is it about audience capture that's so compelling? I guess people want acceptance and they want love. And when they find it's generally going in this certain direction and they get positive responses, they tend to lean into it. Yeah, I worry about it. I just feel like, sometimes I feel like I didn't know that this is what I wanted to do until I started doing it.

1:19:51 And then I hear from so many people that got inspired to do different things with their life, I have this obligation to make sure that I'm not fucking it up, you know and my wife was like, why are you doing this? that's successful feels like. it needs to exist. Like how can, how can we not do this? Right. But that always, doesn't that It's a good question.

1:22:36 Just talk to people. in all kinds of things so when i talk to someone i'm genuinely curious just like what was it about There's like people are mad on the internet, Yeah. And it just turns out to not be true. i think when people do see very planned out statements and planned out interviews they're not He's the former two-term president. It would be amazing.

1:26:39 we should do? I think you're doing the right thing. I think the way you're doing it, I don't And they were so terrified that Trump was going to win again. And if you'll accept that kind of censorship. or any irrational people that seem to think that he's some sort of a threat to humanity like that. And we're scared about someone who's worse than Trump. If we can't come up with some

1:30:23 going to ruin the GOP. I'm the sworn enemy of the GOP we got to get them out of office and these fucking And ultimately, the whole world is supposed to be all together. One of the more beautiful things about the internet is the internet not fucking polluted and on fire. I mean, there seem to be like pretty common, very trying to do their best. It's fun that you just say that.

1:32:58 social media it feels like everything's on fire it feels like you like you know you have to do this you just you get buffeted by circumstance and even Where do you think, do you have an idea of where the country's going? Substack in the first place. I was like, it feels like there's wheels in motion that are pulling in some it's like something breaks and then you really like you know you can get really bad or

1:36:09 Like, they had them on the side of buses and shit. what's up with the ozone.substack.com the thing that i thought which could turn out to be totally according to Ann Douglas, co-author of But is there a hole over Australia? 20 looking at that one right there is that real that's fucking terrifying and If that's human-created, is that human-created? Ozone watch facts.

1:39:12 The coldest part of the world has no ozone. But yeah. So what you're saying is that It means there's things that matter. And there's been calls. hype, but I do think that the fundamental thing of here's a thing that can function as a currency, as money in some sense, that is outside of the scope of government and kind of in some important way uncontroll I think they're under attack for very good reasons because people are terrified of decentralized money.

1:42:31 Down compared to where it was? Yeah, sure. forget about government control, person living somewhere throwing some money to go fund me and their stuff like their accounts it didn't get more pushback. And I think it's damaged him politically, but I don't, I mean, And I'm like, You lose like the ability to empathize with people who are your fellow human beings that think they're protesting something they care about,

1:45:52 you're in like the red scare and the basic thing that you have to do to avoid that which you did The fact that there's people that can dissent, are part of the way to unwind the insanity. that, oh, there are pressures to get people to censor you guys censor the comments do the are the author is allowed to censor the enforce it they can kick people off they can like you know it's it's their space and so you can run

1:49:12 that's really permissive. I disagree with you about almost everything. I think you're wrong about this. I think you're crazy about this. But I actually like reading you. I like getting this perspective. I value I'm very interested in the people that think that this is a good thing, You want every time you have sex to be making a kid? They thought there's no fucking way that guy's going to win.

1:51:28 Yeah. And if you insulated yourself from all the arguments for the things you disagree with, people were. Oh, like while they were not that crazy? that anybody else could even be posting. analyzing their own motivations and their own thoughts and what is the source of this information Yeah. but like I wish I had friends to hang out with. Think both I think some people started cynically and some people believe in it.

1:56:07 Ultimately, I think this is going to sound very bizarre, but I think the solution is going to be and maybe it's hampered by our own individual biases. all the people that are just playing people and trying to make money. And we would get to see It's one of the things he said. The last place you actually still have privacy is in your own skull. All the people that work for them are going to be able to see they despise them secretly and are terrified that they're going to take over and are plotting against these people.

1:59:11 and scientific studies and things along those lines. But let's not have this for the general And then she made him delete TikTok off his phone. They tricked us. For sure. It's taking away every choice you make It is mind control. That is scary. But the scary thing is they're using that mind control. Yes. It is mind control. Yeah, but that doesn't mean they're not doing it. One of the reasons why they got rid of Huawei is

2:02:45 Like it said, they have access to the data that's not on the fucking phone. the value of honesty and integrity and meaning what you say and saying what you mean and doing I don't know, man. and more prevalent What is money? as like the biggest technological advance implications of machines that can think more and more like people talk about not being able to

2:06:41 programmed. But then if you give it the ability to be sentient, but one of the ways to mitigate that is to become cyborgs, And my concern is that we're obsolete. It's heady stuff. That's interesting. Some people need glasses to get around the world. I don't even watch TV. Yeah. We're going there. effects that could happen to those things. Yes. But then what are we? You know, I think we have

2:10:58 Yeah. But I think objectively, we have to look at it in terms of what is, what are the human completely alien thing if you existed on another planet with a completely A new one comes out. I mean, those things, our desire for materialism is fueling this creation of technology. And ultimately, I think that's lost on a lot of people, Yeah, I think There's no pause button.

2:15:18 know why it's doing it to build a butterfly. This is how it works whenever you have a long period of time without cataclysmic disasters I don't want a house. way way different unrecognizable to people that lived hundreds of years ago and the rate of change You could just immediately leave fuck get martin luther shit posting right he probably would be shit posting too and you really

2:18:06 there's this like back and forth at each stage it's like at ever increasing pace the the things all the way from extinction or things you can imagine that are worse than extinction, because it changes the access to perspectives. And ultimately, that's what a lot of us are, any people that don't want certain perspectives broadcast because those perspectives would

2:20:51 you get it shapes what helps you win helps you become the best version of yourself and so it's how I'm going to put food on the table tomorrow. Or, you know, it's making me rich and I can say people to think, you know, by giving people a platform where they're not censored, you know, better by understanding each other better, by communicating with each other better, by having these discussions, by reading, by interacting with ideas. And those ideas help us form our

2:23:46 and in writing and in fiction and in thought before it makes it to technology. You're not just a genius person who's figured all these things out by yourself. You can't stop that. And I stopped counting after like 15 or something. I'm so happy that you guys exist. And I worry. as soon as you get to any idea, any religion, any school of thought or ideology, no matter how good, if it loses its ability to be open to criticism, it inevitably becomes evil, I think, because it loses its rudder.

2:27:53 So you have this world of social media that's like, grab as much of your time in life as possible. I'm not going to force people not to use TikTok. that's got enough exciting, interesting stuff there that I'm not, you know, And where when you go there, But it's like the energy is growing and it's creating things that otherwise couldn't have existed.

2:30:18 it's for writing. I think writing is a lot of the center of intellectual culture. It's where a lot that are in conversation with each other, Yeah, there's a lot of that that's open for free. Like this is something you pay for. He left a comment being like, I paid just so I could leave this comment. they hate it, there's something about it that's compelling.

2:32:15 And I think that having a place where you absolutely can know, even if you don't know exactly what they think, you know what they're That's what you're doing congratulations cheers to you Look at all the great things that are on there. Like if you find someone you like, you can see what are they recommending, Small team. That's beautiful. CJGBest. Thank you for doing what you're doing.