Joe Rogan Experience #1877 — Jann Wenner Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! Well, I think I start my life, my book out at a time in the 50s in the Eisenhower that America wasn't what they told us it was going to be. You know, that life, liberty, and Our young, beautiful president is assassinated. and music that desired to do good in the world, to make the world a better place. of not understanding really what's going on

3:14 States fought a world war for justice, democracy, defeated the bad guys, was victorious. The emergence of rock and roll and the emergence of drugs. A wonderment that's... interconnected. I mean, Wow, perfect timing. So it was like a real call around the world are you ready for a brand new beat you know i mean and And I don't think it was so much music.

6:44 Let alone at the time, you would go to jail if you were gay, And we called it, Ralph, we called it the tribal telegraph. John Lennon or Dylan could say what was on their mind Well, I don't think – I had no sense of what it could become. I knew nothing about the business of it, but people liked it. I wanted to be part of that world. it's had a powerful, huge effect on what America is,

10:38 And, you know, there's so much of your magazine that's tied into, I mean, I know you walked around here, you saw the Hunter artwork. All the drug dealers that were selling drugs. and then there would be a giant parking lot out of town that you could park at, from New York and all, oh, the hippies are going to try and take over the ski town. Well, let's see

13:11 And so we just fell in. he felt very committed to making the magazine a success. And he did his own career. Hunter is a, you know, he just meant that much. When you're with Hunter, when you were with Hunter, And so we go along and then all of a sudden, like Hunter would turn the headlights off. But we got to the mailers. and run out the door and don't come back.

16:55 some of the things he'd say i mean unbelievably funny i think the first thing i read was the I mean, you believe such a person took place? It was when he was writing. to cover a motorcycle race for Sports Illustrated. But that piece was so strong in two parts. I look in your eyes, I can see it. And there was this water that was being thrown on this movement and so quickly sort of evaporated

20:30 or you didn't have to obey all these rules. at the end of the 70s, I mean, the 80s was the era of Reagan. being at carter's speech and going back to get his tape recorder and and recognizing that this is uh And very unusual for a politician. for law day. And Carter spoke Carter campaign, particularly McGovern campaign, put Rolling Stone on And also, Rolling Stone was part of the annual big national story, competing with the New York Times.

23:53 it was the way young people Yeah, because to see it through Hunter's eyes. There were pieces. but your functions are breathing still for 24 hours, And as I say, that year of the campaign coverage, How did McGovern describe his book? But it became so important to everybody in the campaign was a very special man, a very, really human, good man. And, of course, heavily defeated.

26:45 I don't think so. And that level of, you know, haphazardness was probably affected at all levels of the campaign. But it was so good. It was a great run. She turned out to be another genius, you know, kind of world-class. were the kind of backbone. that were already in, you know, investigated them, Everybody knew better than that. but I'd give him assignment after assignment, and he wouldn't do it.

31:15 It was because he thought that it was a mismatch? Ali and he were both hometown Louisville boys. He'd come to New York. One was called Fear and Loathing in Elko, which he started to write because there's a snowstorm in Aspen, where he runs into Judge Clarence Thomas It was like old times. and this is something he knew about. And he wrote, it was painful. And, you know,

34:08 the mind of an accountant. But he remained lifelong friends, and, you know, it was a And they were going, oh, there's Hunter. He'd have to get away. but it was fine. Strip. We said it was by Raoul Duke. I think Hunter was, I told Hunter he could and should sue and stop it. But why did Gary write He was afraid to stop it? enchanted by the idea of Hunter himself as a cartoon character.

37:52 Yeah. and I thought he's great at that, kind of square, Corrosive. If he, you know, if he went to, you know, TV, everything. So there's not like a blueprint. There's a road map of how to navigate this correctly mm-hmm so and when you deal with fame on the level that hunter hunter was dealing with So Hunter was a generous person and felt obligated to all these people

40:35 at his feet where he comes up with these, You like to entertain. Yeah, I mean, it happened to Sam Kinison, too. And with Kinison, he just kind of stopped writing. John used to come out flat to stay with me in San Francisco every weekend after Saturday Night Live, come out, decompress for a few days, go back to San Francisco. Of course, he reaches up into a sling, into the cast, and inside the cast, he pulls out a bottle of Coke.

43:10 They'd be the sole... You end up going around in circles. And that's it. deteriorated over the years. a good friend of mine, his cousin, He'd lost all this weight and just seemed creepy And I remember thinking, that is something I never, never want to be a part of. think is very powerful about psychedelics and about marijuana because it erodes all of these

46:21 It's great for listening to music. if I smoke a joint It ruined Sly Stone, Ike Turner. And, you know, and Exile on Main Street. do you manage that force an addiction too so an addiction yeah and also again now no real blueprint But alcohol is, I mean, like, I know what the number is, but I thought it was in the Have you heard of one person who's ever died from marijuana?

48:46 You know, Alex Berenson, who wrote for the New York Times, wrote a book called Tell Your Children. now. It's on the bestseller list. Congratulations. or maybe acknowledge it slightly or acknowledge inhaling or something. and What the real role of acid was. I was asked once by the head of the Partnership for Drug-Free America, And I asked this guy for some advice.

51:24 You know, you're not scaring. Right. You're cooking eggs for people that famously have the munchies it was so You know it's like a narrative they were trying to push. We had passed a bill called Plan Colombia, or whatever. And they're like, okay. The balance of it, $620 million went to a defense industry Yeah. The only thing you've done with this is criminalize black people, criminalize poor people, people of color, and people that would be more likely to use cocaine so you could arrest them and lock them up for much longer sentences.

55:19 is you can get married now you couldn't get married before my generation came along. Treatment of black people, the attitude towards the environment. kind of a cultural history of our times in rock and roll You know, I didn't think my own story was that interesting per se. was and how much fun we had. I think we would have a distorted understanding of what went on during those years if it wasn't

57:19 Get involved in the social issues Like I never thought the yippies It was political. They were just kind of a performance art thing. They would go down the Wall Street and throw money onto the stock. I'm still. I mean, I don't need to live with, you know, 12 different people in the community anymore. So in any movement, it goes a little too far. But there's a good idea in there.

59:39 You captured all of it. Right. And I think that point of view still stands. I don't believe in this go boomer stuff. their parents' generations and they're expanding. because they really are worried that some of these people there's cruelty at the basis of it. I find that the most unchristian party in the United States is this mean spirit. And I just don't see how people can live with themselves.

1:04:00 Yes, you have to retrain people. We're done how? They're visible. Miami will be underwater, I guarantee you. I've heard the opposite. They're less frequent these things randomly strike and they're more I think I deal a lot with that. But we're too vulnerable. In the atmosphere. One of the leading scientists, the guy came up with a guy. I feel like I'm sounding like a nutcase here.

1:08:33 in the United States, in Arizona, Texas. And inappropriately built on the oceans or the rivers. Well, we're scared of nuclear. I think that we'd be – I don't think it's the solution, but I think it's part of the solution now, and that should be one of the things we go after. But we've got to go after the other things. they're passed with only Democrats voting for them

1:10:45 what their constituents want? Do you think that there's some sort of a more nefarious agenda? because if you say, The survival of the earth is a moral issue. they are the presidents. Look at Reagan. Look at hundred Biden didn't... Oh, sorry. What hundred Biden didn't... that's going on with his son in Ukraine. I think the Ukraine thing, what Hunter Biden did in Ukraine was wrong.

1:12:36 because this just doesn't pass the shady test. that his son was paying money to him. Okay. anybody can put anything they want on the internet. I mean, Matt writes for me. He's the only person who ever came close to Hunter. Yeah. his sense of outrage, he was perfect for this time. Matt himself is, though, also subject to any difference to our lives and Democrats

1:15:45 we're always going to have a problem with special interest groups But the Republicans bought you the Supreme Court decision to let corporate financing back in, which is why now elections are so expensive. really much meaningful is where the refinery is, all this stuff. These are Republican agenda items. These are all on to pass this plank, I don't know. I presume they may not have the votes because some people want,

1:18:20 Yeah, but the Republicans are not. I mean, Trump, I mean, okay, this is my current hobby horse. you medical care, we'll make sure you get food, we guarantee you the right to life, I don't see any part of it. That debt, you can never escape. But haven't they rolled that back? There was something that I was just reading yesterday. No, no, it's not. That's from Fox News.

1:21:29 borrowers with privately held federal student loans will no longer qualify for President Biden's Here's an NPR. Let's read what this has to say. federal government, were once the mainstay of the federal's loan program until the FFEL program ended in 2010. and is discussing with private lenders. In the meantime, borrowers with privately held They passed student loan relief.

1:24:58 And the reason it's been pulled back is to make that challenge go away or be less potent in court by those things that they thought might be questionable constitutionally. And she – what did she do with the scam? It wasn't called Alpha University. better spent on the purposes of society that we want, which is we want an educated and employed and productive population.

1:26:43 are much the same. Right. Whereas people who are making income of $100 million a year, let alone $10 million a year, should pay – start paying at a rate of 50 percent and escalate up. Where does that money go? Yeah, yeah. A lot. It was huge. People may need to shoplift, and there's evil people and scam artists, and you try and do your best. They wouldn't let them hire more people just to audit people.

1:29:58 at the time. I think that's it. That's the real question. What people are terrified of is the reallocation of wealth by people who are not good at managing anything. I think it's already being pilfered and we can expect that it's going to do a pretty good job elected government to choose from? Autocracy is in China, which distributes money fairly well.

1:32:57 You think you've got the world figured out. You can get captured by extreme wealth too? And then you're around other people that also feel the same way. I'm good. Even if you say you're going to give 50 billion dollars away, it's to the things you like This is what happens. live here. We're Americans. It's the worst of people. And we were taught the principles that found this country were justice and liberty.

1:36:28 And I think what I've learned growing up and getting older person, I'll forget the name in a second. And what do they say? and we've done very little to fix that. Why? I ask you, I agree with you entirely. Now ask yourself why. I'm with you. I love this place. I mean, I don't claim to wear the hair shirt and have sacrificed everything, and I live well.

1:39:51 I don't think you can keep people from profiting. That was the cocaine era. Yeah. And I totally agree. You know, you say you're on this ride for a short amount of time. You know, you're, mentality that you operate under. I think that's a real problem. I don't think drugs are the only solution, but I think there's a real pathway through psychedelics that allow people to

1:43:13 Climate change and disruption and how to deal with that. Yes. he gave his entire share of it away. The guy who gave it away might be suicidal. You're doing it—the way you're approaching it is from a peaceful, kind way. I'm off the stage now. Or not at the right backstage or, you know. You know, I don't know. It's just there's so much fun in the book.

1:47:11 seen in the last 30 40 years well i mean it was a hell of a ride i mean it was so much fun and to You didn't realize at the time how crazy it was for you to be where you were I never gave it that much. I'd be places. Fortunate, yes, always fortunate, yeah. It's like that a little. I kept my backstage pass, which they take away from me. the Carter people at the moment. He goes

1:50:29 like one year after the Academy Awards, she works out hard, by the way, it's not And my will is to be over. That's your life. He was actually, I mean, I didn't know him that well. Oh, so to do the interview, Yeah, he wanted to interview me first to make sure I was cool. so he's set up. So he agreed to do the interview, which he has suggested. Then I get a call saying,

1:53:08 Would that be okay? he calls us, remember, Yeah. So he changed his mind. Just a random person? And this guy in a parachute I think this was number seven. 91, it says. It was a strange way. obviously inside he's so tight and tense because he's concealing this other thing, you know, Just to try to get into the mindset of a person that's living this very, very unusual life.

1:56:53 what was it like to be a child star giant privilege and we had the opportunities to I was constantly on the bus with this, that, and the other thing. Let's have lunch. I want to talk to you about Michael because what I'm about to do at this know and said come to lunch let's have lunch the story in Indiana I didn't discover it. He had no – this giant myth.

1:59:07 And that that was, you know, you know about these young boys that were taken into the opera and turned into castratos. There's only a few recordings from Castrato's. Astounding. gain by enacting that. If you have the financial mechanism, like if you think about what is But, I mean, listen to human nature. but it's plausible. I mean, I think the way you get a person like that to reveal themselves is through time.

2:02:56 But I don't think that time – I just don't think you could have broken Michael. I mean I certainly got a sense of it in the way our own communications were that he wasn't going to open. in another long, And he was so angry about the way fame had treated him. Saying, oh, well, we're the most famous couple in the world and the biggest pop star in the world.

2:05:14 wanted to do. He was a man of He can't tell the world, I've got another vision of things. Here's everything I've got. He did that to get out of it? So they kicked him off the show for posing naked on the cover? No, I didn't. Yeah. he feared that it would lead to the unraveling Nobody would have talked. Well, there was no chance of him ever being normal.

2:08:34 Yeah. Yeah, it seems like that's your phone. For New York It's 3.30 Don't worry What they think is tough is extra five minutes to get somewhere. It's fucking death. that I find really fascinating I mean, it bothers me going out in public and sometimes it gets hassling and sometimes people Yeah. That's a very interesting... You won't wear it. I'm very fortunate and I don't have that trap.

2:12:51 Why do you think I need a mask? And what a thing to be able to do. No. But, you know, I think psychedelics have helped me tremendously in not having a mask, you know. and some uncharted part of the universe. uncomfortable imagine that he's very uncomfortable and he's just terrified i don't even see my facial I've met all kinds of performers and artists and singers.

2:16:05 valuable. you know, say like, Yeah. of keeping people away from him. And not exposing him. I mean, he believes in the advantages of mystery just every conceivable thing, communicates joy beyond belief. He doesn't want anybody to know that he's working on a new album. He doesn't feel the need to express himself in any other way. You know? and the way he sort of solidifies them is by the music and is through his art.

2:19:20 Yeah. Motown stuff. that are beautiful songs but express the deep universal things You lied, you know. Boy. And, you know, it's just a privilege. They did a podcast. You have to have some purpose. And there's nothing Bruce and Obama that we hadn't heard before. From just that little signal. The presidency, his presidency was historic, transformational in so many ways.

2:23:20 is that he wouldn't play politics. for the next election, the Hillary election. he didn't play politics? said, no, I don't want to do it. I want my administration to get off to a great start and for most of my life. I know how to bring people Look at the investigations that they've been conducting of Clinton. So here was the opportunity for Obama to say, go ahead, investigate the war.

2:26:38 And I think it was also due to his own sense of self-worth, Of course, he would try to carry that on. And I never did bring that up with him. Well, it's not a gotcha question, but it is – let me say, I don't – my thing with the interview is I want to draw something out of you. were you chicken shit to, why did you do that? You don't want to say it like that.

2:29:26 Politicians, all of them, except when they're out of office and so on, of the presidents and the presidential candidates I've interviewed, which have been Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, and Obama, are tough interviews. and you've got, you've blown up pre-tested or are up. You can't they can answer honestly. when will this be passed or do you think there will be

2:31:04 says is vetted or formalized. and something. So when I got up in the morning, very drunk still, Obama wants to do it. So I had to scramble and create a whole new interview. And then Obama walks up, gets us You want to ask – because now everything was completely, you know, completely up in the air. and you look up at that picture of George Washington

2:33:59 It's a tragedy. your But he said this. You smoke dope. I mean, I know Al well, actually. After he lost the election, He said, well, you know, I just don't have the appetite to lie anymore. And he can't tell the truth. Yeah. don't think of him as an artist so you don't think of that as an option you but you don't He had, you know, he had the look of being spontaneous. Yeah. revealing a few more layers of the onion than anybody else was. It's true.

2:38:44 And I think that – That resonates with people, especially people that aren't doing a deep dive into what is actually going on. He seemed sincere when he was talking as well. He embodied the hopes and dreams of a generation there. You get mocked one way or the other. Well, it's not just unregulated. It's also I mean, there's just so much of what we discuss that's orchestrated.

2:41:50 it is a public utility, government. It's owned by the public. It should be regulated as a public utility and by the same Free speech. the military industrial complex or politicians. And you get opinions that resonate with people On the other hand, it's brilliant at democratization of communication and expressing opinions and making the cost of investigative journalism lower because you have to have something with all these eye over it.

2:43:51 it has to be regulated. Well, wait a minute. But if they're going to be in power and they're regulating the Internet, Yeah, but it's a disruptive thing that has never existed before. Or it can regulate. That's the government regulating— Administration that regulates big pharma. You'd have patent medicine. And not just bad drugs, as you recall, but fake drugs that are one molecule different than the original drugs so they can copyright a new drug.

2:47:06 see the expansion of technology in general, that technological innovation just seems to I can't. What I think is that what scares me is the kind of future that's kind of predicted in Star Wars. Well, it eventually will be in your body. And eventually it'll be in your body. And in because we're It's got maps in it. Yeah. Trevor Burrus I know what you're saying.

2:50:04 But on the other hand, we could have had Trump, and he would let Russia run all over the place and actually – and then be dominant Europe, dominant Europe. I'm looking out for you. But thanks for what you just said about me, man.