Joe Rogan Experience #1896 — Bjørn Lomborg Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. We're up? I'm like, I'm a good person. That's all you do? Right. Every day in Austin you get a million cars. So the real issue here is once you decide to say you have to switch it into all these different bins, you have everyone sit. about ourselves, but we didn't want to pay. And then, of course, when you get this barge with all this crap plastic,

3:24 will remove plastics, like particularly from the ocean. Boyan Slot. But again, I tend to think that we try to make it too hard. Because they don't have the money to process it. do that. But instead, we come in and say, no, no, you need to recycle. You need to have three So the microplastics are possibly an issue. That's not how we organize our societies. That's not how we think, and that's certainly not how we make good choices.

7:20 it has an effect on the reproductive cycle of the child. And they can do studies in mammals, because the male taint is 50% to 100% larger than the female taint. And since the invention of petrochemical plastics we should definitely be concerned about these things. Sorry. And that's why. And how do we know? Because we live much longer. you actually become, you get one more year in life expectancy. You could be young Jamie forever.

11:10 than it was before and you live longer right but it might like literally be affecting the way human It stops your car from knocking. Yeah. Five percent. I don't actually say them. you get better childhood, you get better education, you get more stimulated. There are all They get good nutrition. Yeah. But it's not that the world is sort of, you know, the wheels are coming off, which is

14:51 Randall Carlson and Graham Hancock yesterday and the podcast would be released on Thursday. Like, this shit has gone on forever. this one because it seems kind of cultish. It is. So look, if you look around and if you look So, you know, Austin is built in a pretty warm climate, I'm assuming, coming from southern Sweden. And that, I think, is really why we're talking about global warming.

17:46 our point is there a real science that points out the amount of carbon and the emissions that we And they've sort of trended towards all as because of us. that has not necessarily been a good thing for the earth. She's making some really good points. Maybe I should leave. No. So really the point here is this is a problem, but it's not the end of the world. And I think that's really where we need

20:00 You flew. Yes, yes. Like it's very bizarre how society has moved like completely in that direction. Yeah, we never had computers. Nuclear absolutely could be part of the solution. You know, so Chernobyl, which was by all kinds of ways a terrible accident. This is the biggest catastrophe we've ever had with nuclear power. If you've ever been to New Delhi in the fall, I'm assuming it's a little bit worse than it was to be back in London in the 1950s.

23:16 It's terrible, yes. Wow. And we don't have any sense of these impacts. Whoa. You're just going to bring that up. Look at all those candles. They had a life of eight hours of lit when they were normal. But anyway, Ars Fyr Jew, it's available right now on YouTube. So, I mean, in that sense, I'm like, all right. But when you go then to India, they burn all their fields right next to New Delhi.

26:56 So if I can show on the B2. Or the other way around. Yes. If you're a producer and you work in Hollywood, if the Kardashians are fighting with their They're glowing their hands to Picassos. You're supposed to fucking put the climate change in everybody's Yeah, there's articles written about the climate change may be causing all these sudden deaths and heart attacks.

29:45 that climate change increasing the number of heart attacks worldwide. The hypothesis suffers from What we were just saying. All well-known lower costs for health care worldwide especially nationwide a national program encouraging people But there's so many people that can improve their life and there's no encouragement to do it. We can do a lot ourselves.

31:50 Right, right, right. Each year, rising temps save 166,000 lives? That's bad. So if I can just show you this one up here. every winter, you actually And this, of course, the point, you know, do you remember the heat dome last year? And, you know, got covers of all papers and CNNs and all that for a week. 170,000. So you should- Most of these are statistical deaths.

35:26 the death rate is low, and then it gets high again. This is basically because cold is dangerous, So, sorry, the 170 for the U.S.? Yeah, whatever the Lancet study said, 166. But it's not on the death certificate. curiously, everybody that dies from heat So you need to have cold for a long time because then you're starting to work that up and your body restricts your temperature.

38:52 Like what takes – is it just because they're older folks? And you have to keep the heat on at night. and each one of them are put into this little risk factor. in terms of medical intervention? So it's actually not medical intervention. It's just air And that's, of course, what we need to make sure that the rest of the world can afford. That's what kind of has to be balanced out because it's either everything or it's nothing.

41:40 But because of global warming, it gets slightly slower, much better. They don't do a particularly good job on extreme temperatures, but let's just leave it at that. Look, getting richer means that you can allow yourself to go, you know, die from lots and lots of donuts. Would it be people who died from obesity and diabetes? in the US. So it's probably at 1 million or something. And how many of those you could attribute to sedentary lifestyle and obesity and how

44:07 you on your death certificate. They're saying obesity. That can't be that many, right? How many it's it's a contributing factor it I don't know that it's listed as like yeah So they do this for the whole globe. Like people that live in those polluted cities. I was just watching a movie about World War I last night, that's why I asked this. What giant floods

46:43 in China and India in the 1920s, 1930s. in 1970. It was a big hurricane that came in, killed somewhere between 300 and 500,000 people this last hurricane with like flying colors? Is that a word? You know that expression. If you go This community was established just to give people a safe place from a natural disaster No, it's normal houses. We know how to fix many of these problems.

49:57 damage. Because the roofs peel off. Yeah. This is very, very simple stuff. And so again, because really bad way of dealing with issues. But it's a really good way to get people to vote and it's a really good way to get people Yes, yes. truth to this. So what you see here is that you will actually, with climate, you will actually It's like touching the line.

52:44 the world and stop using fossil fuels. No, the right answer is to to say we got to change the entire growth engine of the world and stop using country. They didn't have enough fail-safes. But even in that one, I don't believe very many people died from Fukushima. Yeah. So if you have like bricks. lots of nuclear, is that nuclear is incredibly expensive right now.

55:55 And so they're easily sort of two, three times more expensive. Do you know about that? No. They're still doing this? They were working on it. Holy shit, that's so much money. Fail-safe sounds good. So you asked me what should we say to these guys that glue themselves to famous paintings. Well, you don't fix getting rid of fossil fuels by telling everyone, I'm sorry, would you mind being a little poor and a little colder and not be able to drive? Would that be okay with you? You don't win elections that way.

59:29 So in 1974, this guy comes up with this little thing you put on. some cars like a Porsche Turbo, which is a very efficient car and has incredible air filters. A car that's sucking in carbon. It sounds like it's very – so we're doing the same thing with carbon, Jeremy Clarkson said, when you drive this car through a really polluted city, Los Angeles,

1:01:28 And then So that is his quote. I seriously doubt any existing cars, especially the Porsche 911 Turbo, emits exhaust that is cleaner than air, even air in the most polluted cities. So I'm essentially an economist. We could potentially take all of Austin to the moon. Hence, this is a Porsche Turbo. Oh, my God. We should switch and we should cut carbon emissions.

1:05:09 It emits half as much CO2 per unit of energy. And so they find the total damage from fracking is in the order of $25 billion, mostly from air pollution. And because fracking is a very rapid turnover, you need a lot of wells. but you also have environmental problems of $25 billion. When you're talking about polluting ancient waterways, that scares the shit out of people, including me.

1:07:36 And it causes lots of benefits. You can absolutely regulate fracking better, and you can decide that you want to have benefit, but a substantial benefit of the fracking. That's not true in Europe, which is why everybody Yes. He lived forever. You don't even inhale. and they lease mineral rights and sell water to oil companies. Labar Ranch leases that land to at least three oil companies,

1:10:42 This is a fact. And Anschultz owner, if it's your land, do you You're a glass-half-full guy. There's no solutions. That's not how you really show yourself to the world and say, we're really amazing. because you've given an alternative to coal, which not only emits a lot of CO2, because that's what it is. It's like, if you're going to agree to pollute a certain amount of the water, a certain amount of the land, is there any solution to extract that

1:14:33 because it's going to reduce the effect on the environment This is pollution from fracking. cultural place and all that stuff. That's much more regulatable. That's the kind of thing where parts of those chemicals. As I understand it, there's very little dangerous now, You're not leaving it down there. But this is fairly simple to manage, if you will. That's

1:17:45 And very clearly, there were some of these things No. I mean, I kind of know. I've read it, but I can't remember. Okay. Well, that's better. But this idea that we should accept some amount of water pollution and Yeah. and you're like, where salmon spawn and stuff like that. The point that I try to make was when you do these estimates, Well, that sucks if you're there and you don't frack.

1:21:25 people die. But none of us would be willing to say it's going to be three miles an hour. And I is also from this year. So which one is saying, this is where you got to look. So can I just say, So even though it's one of the most polluted, it's one of the most polluted in relation. We do? How do we do that? Yes, yes. But that's just how we put up our world.

1:24:10 Sure. This fucking guy. But people will tell you that going vegetarian is a great thing for the planet. it probably reduces your emissions by 2%. But doing so has basically – they take out more carbon than they put out into the environment. Like normally in the wild. It's crazy to see. And they're, oh, it's corn. So you have to be a little careful, though.

1:27:30 So there's not enough natural fertilizer in the world to keep 8 billion people fed. I don't necessarily think he does that. But the point is we just couldn't do it all of us. Not the carbon footprint. it is that you're producing. And the way they feed the animals. other places. So you see conventional beef, which is like a huge amount of carbon, plus 33. White

1:31:51 And look, I don't know how this works. and moving them around? If you cut them down, then obviously you now release all the CO2 again. that makes sense. Sorry. I was thinking about intensive farm. Yeah. No, I get that. Yes. So that's how they're doing it. Okay. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Sorry. But his argument was that we really shouldn't be eating that way anyway.

1:34:17 The way you're going to switch, the way we're actually going to fix climate change is by focusing on technology. Now, remember, this is not the only thing you need because you can't just run – that's cheaper than fossil fuels nuanced perspective and expressing a balanced, nuanced perspective to people? Or you could Oh, gosh, yes. But they seem to believe that just by know, just by wishing we can somehow

1:37:22 You said the world. And I think it's very unreasonable to assume that the rest of the world would take on this economic burden the way we're willing to take it on for the environment. And that, in fact, there are countries that are not interested at all in releasing less carbon. They're interested in economically becoming more and more powerful and spreading their wings.

1:38:03 Remember, China has basically lifted what almost 11,000 bucks. assume that the government could foot the bill for this. If they can come up with so much money to lots more into innovation because innovation is incredibly cheap. So Craig Venter, do you Look, I'm sure that just like we've talked about before, you know Africa and it was especially India and Southeast Asia not being able

1:42:18 It's gone from a basket case to being able to feed its own population. But aren't there a lot of problems with that too where the Indian farmers are getting fucked over and they get connected to these seeds that they don't own and they can't reuse and they owe a giant amount of money to the But fundamentally, being in enthrall to big agro business because you have to buy more of the seeds or you have to pay more is probably a lot better than dying from not having enough food. But are there the only two solutions?

1:44:01 to a store and decide between a slightly less good product, which is cheaper, or a more expensive product that's better. Right. But the idea here is still that it's possibly not the right way to think about this if we're in the world that are also better suited for their agriculture. Now it's less than 3. gases, does the United States produce in relationship to the rest of the world? What

1:47:31 Do they really have an objective understanding of how much of this is a natural cycle and how much And we need to deal with it, but deal with it smartly, right? So instead of us gluing ourselves to pictures and saying, we've got to stop everything right now, we've got to look at, And what they found was the long-term best strategy cost and we'll end up a little bit like we talked about with Germany, right? You'll end up spending

1:49:51 Yes, yes. They're fine there. Yes. book. And this is now, what, five streets away from the waterfront, right? Because New York has Like I don't know if that's as simple a problem as what they're dealing with in Holland or in a lot of other places where they make dams and seawalls, what they do with New Orleans. And so it's number 23 on the A file. So it's going to cost 5% of global GDP. But this is not the world we live in. We'll actually

1:54:11 There's a lot of other things you have to factor in along with no adaptation. And much of this is not going to be these amazingly big structures that are going to feel overwhelming. I don't have internet, so I can't actually show you right now. To 15,000. This, of course, one of the big COP meetings, who got harmed were still essentially living under corrugated roofs.

1:57:34 poor. If we want to help them, we should lift them out of poverty. That's a solution you don't Now, what about the impact on climate change and natural storms, hurricanes and the like? No. Why can't we? So what you do, and this is by far the best estimate, so I actually have that. So 2022 is obviously not done, but it's probably done. I see the overall, the average.

2:01:22 Yeah. Is that correct? Yeah. So it seems like there's more of them. that's just the strong hurricanes. So that's exactly the same as what you just showed, Yeah. And then it gets up to four in 2006, and that's a rough year. this is a reanalysis by NOAA and all those guys. And what's the percentage of them that actually hit? That's why it's a very, very bad way to look at this if you just look at how many hurricanes do we know about, because we just know about a lot more now. So that's from Satellite Radar, and that was what

2:06:03 So global warming is bad. prediction. We know how to deal with these things, for instance, get a lot of stuff that can be And if I can just – because people talk a lot about the fact that we won't have enough food either. A total of 11 named storms made landfall in the United States, Is it all hurricanes? This is major hurricanes. And then when I Google it, it says there's at least six, if not 11.

2:08:31 and the one that this was saying they're intensifying Doesn't that seem like a big problem? So there's very little Andrew was even more powerful than Ian in 92. That was 165. Wasn't it Hurricane 3, Category 3? So there were 11 years where there were no major hurricane as well, but it is, but it also seems to be a problem. and they, you know, they don't have to worry about their kids dying from infectious diseases or,

2:11:44 It's certainly a very important part of it. Without climate change, it's only slightly lower. So these guys that are protesting think it's the end of the world. We could, at very low cost, fix most of this problem. So in some sense, it's because it's over there. but because of global warming, we'll be slightly less much better off. Is it just the media or is it also a political ploy?

2:16:03 They're certainly not willing to pay $5,000 per person per year. That's just not going to happen. Most people. Sure, a few very, But this is not how you solve this problem. I mean, partly, if we're suggesting we should do policies because we're worried that this is the end of the world coming up, that are enormously ineffective, which is what most of the world has done, then we're going to waste a lot of money.

2:18:19 solve this with is innovation. So we should be spending a lot more on innovation. But the beauty of it is right now, globally, the world spends about just under $20 billion per year on innovation into And I'm happy to say we had a very, very tiny, small role in that. Europe, we're seeing much, much slower growth. One of the reasons, this is by no means the only reason,

2:20:13 And it makes everything harder to deal with. And the problem is that in sound bites on the news, you don't get to dive into all of the aspects of these complex issues. I mean, fundamentally, it would be wonderful if everybody just said, hey, that sounds smart. Let's do that. Education almost everywhere sucks, but especially in the developing world.

2:22:42 but even here, they have very varying levels. you know, some 11-year-olds are going to be together with a tablet, you can basically have a situation where you can educate these kids much better And it's also because they would eventually get bored. So, again, one of the things that we try to do. So you should look at this, this out here on this one side.

2:26:45 shows how much bang for your buck you get. And so if it's a long line, it's a great idea. It fits this format. And then universal access to contraception. This is what's typically called the – And I just think it's so, you know, patronizing, right? appreciate that. Now, I think that we need more of that, more of a balanced, nuanced perspective on is because of climate change. They think it's because of climate change, right? So we can

2:30:39 Stop saying that. Lomborg. Yes. Lomborg.com and Twitter is Beyond Lomborg.