Joe Rogan Experience #1911 — Mark Boal Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience Do I need these? I mean, it's hard. when you're doing media is to sell something yeah so as soon as you're trying to sell something And then there's a scene where he's, I believe he's in a supermarket. going out and defusing bombs. the experience that I had that I felt when I was there. Okay. So to do that, there was a lot of

4:32 one of the things I was struck by or hanging out with these guys, talking to them, And that scene in the grocery store where Sergeant James, that's the character name, He can't choose, you know? I felt this sense of dislocation, and I was only there for like a couple of weeks, but I felt this sense of like how surreally grotesque like certain parts of our wealth are after you're in after you see this poverty and you see the hardship of the war.

7:54 that translated the most to other people. it's relatable because it is in retrospect but at the time i was like this is just a weird thing And they kind of make sense when you've adjusted and adapted to them. one of the most complex aspects of human life, which is war? Well, it's... No, of course, and it's stupid. Yeah. it's perfect but that's what he does when you said

11:12 stories of like history where you're distorting history that's obviously irresponsible but there's And I didn't depict that at all. So there's that level of responsibility. We've gotten a lot better at at least trying to make movies and television shows that are more reflective of like what the country really looks and aestheticizing it is irresponsible to me.

14:40 But even within science fiction if I pause it to you like here's here are the set Like a feel good movie about the war. but the overall gist of it is it like was um a catastrophe how is it managing that when you're dealing with studios So we had – Well, that makes sense. Yeah. And then promotion, I think she put up another $20 something. what catches

17:37 it must have been like but yet it didn't really do that well. Yeah. When you've had a series of successful films, is there ever a moment where they come to you and say, you know would be the temptation the temptation well every once in a while you get like a chris nolan or what they're trying to do with their product so it's ultimately i mean the money is great but

21:41 each guest, 10 minutes with each guest. We're going to put you on NBC. Yeah, it is interesting. That's what the people that are listening right now, they feel like they're here with you. The more cooks you have in the kitchen, So it's just conversations. That's like, I think. that's one of the things there's an audience I like to watch versus Zero Dark Thirty

24:08 On Friday, the fifth episode will be out. It on Apple TV so it's up now it's out on Apple TV and why did you decide you have to For every month it's $6.99. You'll get the first six episodes if you signed up today. Well, the biggest thing about this is it's um it's um 10 hours it's a tv it's a tv show but i was trying to think of it more like a movie

26:08 and resolve them within the hour And where you end up, I guarantee you where you end up in the last hour is not where you would have ever imagined in the first hour. research, but she also has like this relationship with the CIA, which is a little bit unclear what the depth of the relationship is. So that's who gets kidnapped. How would she go through that

28:43 Not in Taken, I like Taken, but not that version, but how would they actually deal with it in real life? Not in Taken. I like Taken, but not that version. like I've been thinking a lot about other shit besides kidnapping. It's a story about how couples lie to each other and what the price of lying is. and so it's about how these two guys interact with each other.

31:18 white thinking and give people something that has a little more gray in it and so one of the things we do in the show is the bad guy behaves you know that you've seen a million bad guys then it's very hard for me to And how much more planning is involved? It's – I mean the biggest thing is the delivery system, I would say is the, I don't know that my process changes that much, but see in a movie, I have you, if you pay the money, if I can get you to pay the money and you go into a theater, okay, this is dating back before people just stayed home. But let's say back in the day when people still went to theaters, I have you, you're not likely to walk out unless it's fucking terrible because you pay the money,

34:11 Like in the beginning of the of this of of episode one, there's like a 15 minute action sequence that takes place on a snowy mountain. It's just like you're just gonna be like, oh, what's this? How frustrating is that? That's how people consume films Yeah, or stare at your phone while you're at home. You have to kind of create it for the person that's going to be deeply embedded in the experience.

36:14 Um, the, the, the character in The Hurt Locker has a lot of very classically masculine traits. So as an opener, most people will look at that post me to men, particularly white men are, are like kind of a mutually exclusive they're no but they are they're not mutually exclusive right but they are often but they also like are very handy with like an M four.

39:58 is because you represent, I think, Like, there's, what makes a good man but the other one is like um an appetite for risk and danger is also like i'm not a scientist but my understanding is also associated with So for me, as I was thinking about these guys and I have 10 hours, so there's plenty of great because that i mean allows you to present a more complicated picture of the world.

43:10 I mean, it takes place in Colombia. I think it's, distinctions are becoming less and less meaningful you know because now like movies come out and then Yeah, that's like a whole part of this. Like Instagram too. spent two years investigating preparing a piece on trump and russia where i like went to the ukraine wrote a script and sold it to Showtime.

45:58 Like, and tripled down on I would love to see your take on it. I mean, I should have. So it's hard to keep up with it. Like Russia has not been able to build a technology sector. people's elections which they are pretty good at like they definitely yeah they're really good at Yeah. Russia and it's like wow that's great that's amazing. They're just trying to get

51:10 fully having access to all of your passwords And I realized that this whole thing that was coming for our convenience hugely inconvenient thing to do. gathering people's information don't go out there and hunt and gather anymore so that so i was like oh that's really concerning or at least like a persona of the self. negative aspects to it and it does lead to a lot of mental health problems it does lead to rampant

54:25 It's like in all of human history, And I've been able to see that from the difference between people who read comments and interact comments and responding to comments and taking in those comments, they become more homogenized. I mean, like 2000. that are thinking and behaving a certain way because there's reward for that. without reposting it, by just posting it individually.

57:11 And they were saying it's probably 5% or less. Yeah. that's available all around the world that puts out our propaganda. Voice of America produces digital TV and radio content breakdown of of the older hierarchies of this is true and this is false and you know it because it's on the news. You can take it. It's not that there aren't truth tellers out there.

1:00:07 And that's, that's a big change. So like global warming is like an issue. things that I disagree with like like woke ideology I think ultimately what bloods it is you know and if you're not on one the other one yeah yeah it's hard not to be on one In the right wing world, you have preposterous notions Yeah, and there's a lot of enforcement on both sides. There's a lot of police work.

1:04:23 but yet name dropping is still a thing you know it doesn't work but yet it's so obvious to everyone else, but yet name dropping is still a thing. repeat i don't know i don't know i don't know yeah i don't know what you mean like it doesn't And I don't think that works. gotta find out what the deal with this thing is gotta come to your opinion on it gotta have your

1:07:19 as possible let's tie it up nice yeah let's and and and that's the world doesn't really work that like if i'm trying to just convince you of something yeah but but ambiguity is like i'm It's part of all this online stuff that I don't know anything about that's also super from a place of love and a place of like humility? as much anymore they could define it in their head. Now I know what it is. But in this world, there's such a

1:10:27 But like once you get past like the laws of gravity and some of the more basic stuff, on their phone or put them on a computer and put it out there in the world and you're dealing with more data on a daily basis than the human race has accumulated over the entire course of written what was going on in vietnam yeah curious right you would see it on the news and you'd see like

1:12:35 And then they would know. That's very different from today where if you were trying to figure out what was really going on in the Ukraine, for example, and unless you really knew which journals to dig into, it'd be kind of hard. Oh, yeah. It turned out to be riveting. But I'm saying that the level of thought, of complexity, the amount of ambiguity in their statements, that's also changed.

1:15:47 right noam chomsky and gorvada or noam chomsky and um william f buckley i mean that's those are two And I think most likely it's going to be human neural interfaces. They're going to use it initially for people with ALS and various injuries We're going to be old. That doesn't sound. You know, link. There's actually like legitimate scientific inquiry into this called the Younger Dryas Impact Theory. And it's based on actual real data that they get from soil.

1:19:50 Advanced to the point where they could build things like the pyramids. What they believe is that at one point in time, whether, you know, agriculture written language they think it was way before that like maybe even You could go to New Guinea, and you could see people that are hunter-gatherers right now. But the idea is that people have always coexisted that are at various stages of technological superiority and efficiency.

1:22:14 advantages of contemporary civilization like I'd still like the they prefer uh subsistence living which people really do you know that's like life below zero We the most religious. Yeah, really? Yeah than we do in terms of belief in. The homo sapien I leave if I I could be misremembering this so correct me if I'm wrong, but one of his ideas was that

1:25:10 at one time this may have been post the the environmental event that that wiped out the We've certainly done a lot of killing towards others is ridiculous. You know, they've found it. Yeah, so here's the Denisovans. It's a cave, right? Wow. There. during the lower and middle Paleolithic. Yeah, so 12 years ago. So they lived alongside of us and they were a totally different kind of

1:29:26 we we had to reboot and this is the idea about it that you know we did get knocked back into i'm saying since then we've developed a lot of really advanced technology It's better. Yeah, there's a lot better. Yeah. Personally. coming into your village and butchering everybody the way we exist with earth and nature. a conditioned air temperature right and we don't experience the extremes of temperature on our skin

1:33:52 available in the United States, in terms of environments, the, what people would say arguably Disconnected to nature. You can exist as a homeless person so easily never too cold it's what I don't Yeah. Really? Yeah, I'll try some. There's a thing that happens with people. There's not a button you can switch. and you get firewood, I think that's the key. It's environments that exist outside of us.

1:37:49 the way the human consciousness is structured. Yeah. i used to cover um psychedelic drugs for uh rolling stone and so i used to write about them i had not I'm happy to buy into it. country in as a as a um as a therapeutic which ones lsd well they tried it as they tried it as And they didn't really know because it was a fairly new compound in terms of modern human use.

1:41:46 and they're not for everybody, in my opinion. because it could be a really bad experience it depends it depends but i just mean they're kind of like popular in the 50s. And then in the 60s, it popular in like a very elite circle. And and so at the beginning of the show um she's going down to columbia to find the next mdma if you will therapies for veterans with PTSD MDMA therapy ayahuasca therapy ibogaine for people with

1:45:40 brain on drugs. Any questions? All that shit. Yeah, I remember. there's not a chance in hell it would stick. Because I think we should do everything we can for our veterans. You could do a good job with them and build something beautiful if you know what the parameters whether it's completely inside your own mind At the end of the day, these things are so available.

1:47:31 experience by far that i've ever had happened to me and i think most people would agree that it's more of a relinquishing of the ego because you had to let it go for so long yeah it just takes Yeah. You're going to change and grow. fucking pentagon should it be the the people that get elected to capitol hill the fuck out of here But I think having these things hard to acquire is probably not a bad thing

1:51:04 And how and how their potential for like sacred experiences, until we get to that place and there's a place of respect, I'd be hesitant to be the guy that's like, yeah, let's just throw it in every convenience store and see what happens. We need cultural awareness. Yeah, and right now we've been in the dark and infantilized We've got to make missiles.

1:52:51 I agree. Well, also because people enjoy it and they want to have the freedom Okay. Let's get some ice and some glasses. And I think treatment centers and counseling and having it distributed by trained professionals that know what it is, know what the dosage is. That's a very good question. Yeah, a little psychedelic holiday. They get psyched up for it.

1:56:09 we're talking about ancient Greece Brian Murarescu who's a scholar who did all this work on That this has actually now become a field of study at Harvard because of his work and his book. And he's, you know, hardcore, intellectual, straight-laced. No. and then also the proof that this was forbidden by the Romans, it's by a guy in this case he's a by the way that doesn't that doesn't make it

1:59:05 So the way he describes it is like he's an actual scientist. And they would flip those manure patties over In the late 1970s, Terrence McKenna These magic mushrooms open up the floodgates of information is a very plausible explanation for the tripling of the brain two million years ago. because language is essentially synesthesia. And they don't know why. to grasslands, which would allow these animals, these early hominids, to start to move around

2:03:44 for it i think it's interesting but you fucking love it because i'm like i'm down for it i think it's concept of evolution and the scope of time how long it took for us to become what we are today as to how we got here. And that there are some primary factors that, like psilocybin, that might I mean, it's not how you and I got here. I think you just try.

2:06:20 But you don't really grab it all. and then at the same time i don't know what the connection is but i but it's notable at the same Well, my fascination with martial arts that are equally skilled and equally prepared and people that you would think on the surface are like a guy like conor mcgregor you would think Yeah. And Aldo is a fucking legend. overwhelmed by the moment.

2:11:06 so he gets into the octagon this is jose aldo world champion legend but overwhelmed by the And he's making the money thing, like he's shuffling off money. in that moment, intelligence there's so many factors. And he goes out there and just lights them up. and get him so in his head that he charges forward he's practicing that very move, and he imitates Jose Aldo's movement and behavior.

2:14:10 And he wants to move forward. Football is amazing, right? This is like a sport. who's bigger stronger who picks on someone who's not defense who's defenseless this is two people Well. Like you created a whole way of understanding the experience that if I didn't have that, I just look at it. they're some of the most, they could do anything. and they chose to give themselves to it.

2:17:20 You could be like the best bricklayer in the world. Some, I admire focus and dedication. No, I think of it as, i don't know if it's like country would think it's scary yeah more than half the country would think it's scary yeah more than work of art. Like that's also true of a movie or a play or a musician that the deeper your You know? some brilliant pianist just nail it.

2:20:35 Because some people do. Some people do. And if they don't, they should. I want it. I want to I that make you feel comfortable with guns, like battle of Algiers, it's the benefit of like, And, um, the thing that's different about it is when you make a movie, it's like it involves or television show, it involves money. They don't know how much money.

2:23:09 because of the watches? is smoking Right, but- you just cannot depict smoking tobacco. but I can pick smoking another substance. right yeah the idea is that so she rolls a joint cigarette is the great demon that cannot be It's just unfortunate. I mean, the reason why I was talking is like Columbia, people smoke. there's human beings that it's silly

2:25:41 See, I haven't had a drink in, like, two weeks because my liver values were high. that you have on that you put in on in the sound mix is for ios 7 but the phone is Yeah. Sneeze. Yeah, I caught it. it it's like i don't like fuckery really trade in like gratuitous violence or like nudity which is a big thing obviously on tv that selling a close-up of a gun selling the bullet flying out right right and you're never actually like

2:29:58 like let's put the audience at eye level It's not just about, like, showing you how it would be to be in a firefight. it's not current, but I don't really like get inspiration from other movies what do you get inspiration from I somehow try to take that and shape it into a story like a question that you can, I mean, there's a lot of answers to it, but it's a, it's like,

2:33:46 it. It's not just dialogue though. Like a lot of people think of screenwriting as dialogue, speak and then there's some things that that dialogue is good for and there's some things that reveals who you are, another human beings like taking your work and like bringing a great pleasure. there's so much better than I thought it was. know if it's a good actor right if it's a great actor like like jeremy

2:36:47 But it's a hugely collaborative thing that's unique to the performing arts Like do you have a concept in your head? selling a thriller, you need to have some action in the beginning. And it's also a way of like introducing people to the fact that this is a story with danger and stakes. talking to me about this this very specific thing that happened on a mountain in afghanistan in 2002

2:40:03 And then later find out that maybe he was she met a very senior guy in the rebel camp. And I thought that like stuck in me. So like it's just accumulating. And there's also times on projects where I fuck that process up and I've gotten so much information and didn't write it out. Because I can intellectualize about all this stuff a lot and talk about like the different theoretical pieces of it but where you just let that go and you follow

2:43:49 and not try to like really like slap myself on top of it but just like try to follow the truth truck bouncing on a jungle road on the way to set is like just as good if not better that process before you start typing is also writing that process of thinking about it even because I copied somebody Just try to, like,, I gotta go somewhere real quick But sometimes shit slips away

2:47:21 help with this like problem of getting his sister out. It's the most boring thing to look at. Which I was like, oh, that's a really good fucking line. I was like, thanks, Paul. wayside a long time ago well you're constantly cultivating your gardens of thought and creativity episodes available now is if no one through one through five will be are available right now then

2:50:54 Really appreciate it.