Joe Rogan Experience #1916 — Jon Bernthal Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! you know if you're talking about the most fucked up time when you think everything is going to But imagine that. again, just, you know, scores of, you know, you had troops coming home, you know, like think about You know what I'm saying? Totally. He's the one who's married to Cardi B. But I think you're right in terms of the turmoil.

4:34 I would imagine it is. You know, I have a friend named Tony Maggio, who's a sort of legendary drug cop in Baltimore from the east side. And he's from the community. people talking about these things, you know, in Vietnam. You know, you go one way, then you go the other. I mean, that's why there is so much outrage. They look like hypocrites. And, you know,

7:45 negative. And so you're dealing with negative consequences and negative actions from billions And trying to say that they are or trying to just sort of deliver an agenda or say I'm on this team or this team, I'm on this side or the other side. It's I mean, for me, I find that enormously un-American and I find it I think it's a huge mistake. And it's it's not way I want to live my life, or it's not the way I want my kids to live theirs.

9:31 think that the lines that divide us, they're so porous, they're so insignificant. They really, folks that are from those communities don't want more policing there is just a huge mistake. And I It's impossible. And I just find it so unbelievably un-American. people like you more. You seem very genuine in what you do. And to do And I don't necessarily think it's for the reasons that you just pointed out.

13:41 to it. You can always, that's how I look at it. I love it and I'm beholden to it. So anything that kind of gets in the way of that or, um, is, uh, I've been kind of the intentionality behind the show is something I genuinely believe in. you know, I have black folks in my family. I grew up extraordinarily with familial and best friends and ties very much into the black community.

16:54 And I was seeing something kind of in America generally where strength and patriotism was being confused with being rigid or being steadfast in And then on the other side, who's the archetype? With a lot of the guys who have been really successful in the criminal world, it's the same. really really believe in the folks that come on it this show is not about me you know i'm not

20:41 It stewed in my mind for a while. It's historically one of the most violent, you know, they call it a shoot Newton, one of the most violent precincts in the entire city. But I sat down with him and I sat down with a guy named Dante Johnson. But he was also part of the Pueblo. Yeah. early he was sort of like hey i'm sick and and and i'm i'm going into the hospital now i got this

24:18 And I just was so frustrated that I couldn't be both. and I wanted to do a reading of it. And so I got Bo and a bunch of guys from the Pueblos, And to put them all on mission together and put them all sort of into by the end, everyone's hugging each other. two men limitlessly. And I knew that they would laugh at the same shit. I knew that they would

26:49 And, you know, on the other side, you know, you got both saying, yeah, I've lived with that my whole life, man. And it opens up doors of possibility in people's minds where they can watch that conversation and go, you know what? it's like if these two guys can sit down to each other And all that is exacerbated not just by social media but also by foreign entities that are embedded in social media that continually stir up this sort of strife and stir up this conflict.

29:04 Yeah. What were you doing over there? forced there you know look man i i lived in in moscow for for two years did you and yeah what And she was sort of fascinated being a lawyer, But, if she were I, According to her. And they put that play together in a summer home outside Moscow. and kind of proclaim to the audience, you know, face outward. The Russians. What was the genesis of that? You know, I think it was, you know, it was this

32:53 or omnipresent way, like he was looking down on it. fascinating I would have never known that and so you go over there and what is it like to go over So you just pack up your shit. do today if it wasn't for my time spent there. You had this unbelievable appreciation for the arts on every corner. There's a statue of a playwright or a poet or an actor. You know, being an actor

35:52 and these kids are coming from all over the country and it's really kind of like if you get And the people that get the honor of teaching in Russia, it's the highest honor you can achieve. do they structure that kind of training? So it's, it's, it's, um, you know, at first in the first training your attention, your concentration, right? So you would read a newspaper article and you would just, they would tell you to concentrate on one paragraph and you would read a newspaper article and you would just they would tell you to concentrate

38:41 he'd have you stand up and you would have to recite the paragraph that you just read and you would have to be able to answer any of those questions tumbling, but you had to do all that and ballet as well. And yeah, I mean, not until the second year are you actually, you know, speaking text, you know, all of it is just movement based, state shows. And the thing is, is a lot of these people, you know, Meyerhold, for example, he's one of the most famous Russian directors. He would be, he was, he was lauded by the state as this,

40:47 They executed him in his apartment. they did this play called Cinzano, know again thinking you know i'm this like kind of tough kid from from from D.C. and that I knew what the hell I was talking about, like being around that, being around people that were that were operating with that set of stakes where the history, the palpability of the tumultuous history that is alive in every breath in that city.

42:30 I spoke no Russian at all when I first went over there. am, I forgot my papers because I'm just a just, you know, unadulterated asshole. And I said to You just took me here. like completely dark. And I'm on the wrong side of Tverskaya, which is like this main street, I get myself some McDonald's. Happy birthday to me. You're a fuck up. Right. Then I'm going back

45:17 And they're pulling her out of the side. They're pulling her out of the backseat. She's not that. And, and, and, you know, Joe, I knew like in an instant, man, I knew in an instant that like, bullshit um it wouldn't be strange or weird for to have somebody break down in tears in your first I'm devastated for, you know, my friends there. And it was such an optimistic, you could feel the fragility.

48:50 kind of went in and those people were being held hostage. So they put it in gas and they just kind I looked into his soul and it's like a great man and we really connected. The the strong leader that is such a big part of Russia and to have this powerful leader who leads with an iron fist, that seems to be something that they embrace. And they're just taking the Russian soldiers that die and just –

52:06 They just couldn't compete. They looked at those tanks. They said, there's just no way that a You know, that means we have to put in five times as many people and that when they go, you know, whether they have a problem with it or not, um, that's probably not the right, you know, he's risking his life by saying that and how Putin deals with his political foes.

54:55 get past propaganda? Yeah. So state sponsored and state controlled everything. Right. And, and, to so many countries as I'm sure you have, and there's, everybody has this sort of like nationalistic, You're a good actor, you're a Russian actor. and Khabib Nurmagomedov and, you know, Ankalayev that you're trying to put on the table, your own glory. So, yeah, I'm going to go.

58:47 But a big part of it is about the doping that went on during the Sochi Olympics, Brian Fogle he wants to do this race completely clean and then he's going to go to Gregory and Brian, who's a brilliant documentarian, brilliant filmmaker, just steps in shit, just totally And they've, you know, taken his family and taken all their money and pulled them out

1:01:06 And he was just like, you know, just like people in this country just don't appreciate anything, just have no idea. you know, the biggest platform in the world, and we can talk about it. That's right. It's still the best place. slippery road and that's what scares the shit out of people and i think rightly so agreed agreed I mean, again, like I'm not, you know, I remember when I was there, you know, there was the

1:04:41 there was a real sort of like hedonistic, I mean, look, I think probably a lot of it was me being kind of self-important and I was on this kind of like acting pilgrimage and I took myself super seriously. with, with, with people, you know, you'd have, you'd have kids who would bring their entire Did you learn Russian? I don't want to hear your fucking pig brushing and butchering.

1:07:02 That was harder. john you're uh they're like john your talent is like a gem but uh they're like you completely perspectives and work it's a vital part of being a human being that's right it it's so important for the human condition. And if you're not raised with discipline, if it's not incorporated into you very early, They're involved in sports, which I think are very important to kids.

1:10:23 can learn from that, but there's also the Right, right. And I think most people also don't have, I mean, look, I mean, That's right. Imagine if you're a child and you're being raised in this community that it's essentially been the same way for decades and decades with no help. them to, to, to do something about it. And, and, and I, and I, I think for me, it's, it's just,

1:14:00 having the ability and understanding you have the responsibility to keep your family safe And I think that, you know, oftentimes because so many of the people I think who, you know, but you could get the same, you know, there's no term toxic femininity, right? But there's, You need a balance. What was your your big break as an actor? Such an asshole, right?

1:16:58 You know, I'd been busting my ass for about 10 years before that and just failing miserably. I stopped because I saw there's, there's like a big house party. It was this thing called first was like blowing his crotch. And I remember just like looking at her, uh, her, uh, husband and he whatever it was and I called my dog back and the guy, uh, the guy held onto him and didn't let him come

1:20:06 I tried to put my back against the tree and do what I could, but they started to get the better of me. People are, like, from that party pouring beers on my head. and I remember just really having to take a piss. worst and most vicious part of myself if I'm going through that door I will dedicate my life to my work. and, and again, man, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm like, so like profoundly, like humbled by that and grateful for that, like so grateful for it.

1:23:58 but it was also that time at walking dead and the people that I was around and what that, and spending time with so many people in this LWOP community, with the Life Without Parole community in prison. this Elwha community in Calipari prison that we hang out with, you know, they've really changed and got life without parole. And, you know, when you talk to him, when you talk to him about

1:27:28 There's no reason not to engage in violent behavior. There's no reason not to try to put money in your, you and your family's pocket that way. And he goes right to those people and he uh you know it's real and and and um you know we we had uh we had a guy on a couple weeks ago, Richard McKinney. that's about his life And at the same time, the Muslim community in Muncie was growing.

1:29:41 And he was going to go blow up this Islamic Center. He built a bomb. dead I mean that's that's just what his mindset was so he felt like he had sort And I had both of them on the podcast. um is directly relative to your capacity to lifting others out of it and and your capacity She would have him in her home home and she would cook for him she's a wonderful cook and

1:32:12 That's my duty. There's nothing, you know. So you go from this horrific moment where you might be locked up in jail for manslaughter for the rest of your life, And, you know, it's really cool for me specifically to kind of play this character who was the first one that was kind of onto it. I mean, that's the advantage that you have of having all those fuck ups.

1:35:31 There was no trade. We'll pick it up for six episodes, which basically means we don't really believe in this just starting families. So there wasn't, you know, there was no like going to bars or restaurants or And he would say, remember why you did it in the first place. But I keep going back to it. It's the people that I have back to it's the people that I have on.

1:38:07 It's very obvious that you have a more balanced view of what human beings are capable of than the average person. and fighters and, and, um, surgeons and teachers. It's, it's, you know, they, they come from all, who are really in tanks in World War II yeah I think I mean there's like not that many of those you open up to somebody, you bring them into your world like that's sacred man

1:41:04 learn that shit. It's, it's, uh, that's, that's busy work how to coach that tennis. You know, like, you know, learn that shit. I wish I could. There's a there's a group of young filmmakers and podcasters that that that I really believe. Baltimore that we had on their part. Their Their group of cops in Baltimore called the Silverbacks are a bunch of all black cops, a unit there that are just totally policing

1:43:21 I'm not a businessman. And it's really not my bag. It's really not something. And I thought I want it to be more than just giving these folks a voice. I want to, He was part of the Marshall Project. He was tortured in prison. He was basically blinded that community we've done a bunch of uh you know we go to the place we don't have them come to us of guy that, you know, back in the day, you know, he could have you taken off the face of the earth like really easily? Now, when this young man killed his daughter, he testified on behalf of him and said, putting another black boy in prison is not going to bring my daughter back.

1:47:49 And I've also learned so much from Carl Townley, who's the police officer that brought all these guys down. That's so crazy. You know, we shoot we shoot it with cameras like, you know, they've never been on camera before. They're talking about things that are highly, highly sensitive. No, I don't think I'm putting, I think more the, the, um, the second thing you said that, that I,

1:49:54 differently you know like i i since i've done you know i've been a part of so many interviews as an is, is actors, you know, obviously. But it's great, though, that most people, the majority of people are having a good experience from it. Like, I'm on the front lines of this shit. You know, we had George Christie on the other day. you know, on a much smaller level with me and my own bullshit.

1:52:44 Fuck yeah, man. Yeah, it's fuel. can you can use all that fuel fuck yeah yeah it's He's coming out of Supermax. putting that out into your own sort of creative uh forum you know your own creative uh That's something. like, it's one of the things that's missing in mainstream culture. You know, our culture in terms of the way we learn about information and stories is so polarizing.

1:55:47 This desire to get better, to find new avenues, to be curious, to dig in. I really am interested in that. So I kind of just wanted to talk to you. like with certain scientists or certain people that are dealing with human rights situations And it's all essentially coming from slaves. And I was really aware of this, first of all, through Coltan, which is the first thing that

1:58:57 And, you know, the narrative by these electronics companies like Samsung and Apple is that they get everything through ethical sources. to it. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. There's no way around it. It's impossible to get He went there. He got that footage with his own phone. That's his phone that took that footage. And this is a guy that's also worked previously on human trafficking.

2:01:44 Heavy. Wow. You know know so that's how i prepare Well, hopefully I know enough about the person's ability to communicate that it's not going to be This is miserable. Sure. the fuck it is. and life experiences and the way people view the world. and started getting guests, and then it became what it is now. Wow. Like, why are you wasting your time? of just people talking about you out there and you know like just your idea of like you know

2:06:34 I'm like, you know, my acting style is like I want to create as much danger and I want it to be wild and I want it to be unexpected. And my only way of judging whether we had a good day of work is whether like I completely, you know, created havoc on set and that it was electric and just like, like I, I live Oh, man. I met him I was like this guy's just fucking he's just loud you know he's just he's he's he's he's

2:09:17 out for his art, felt that he needed to live wildly out on the street and in real life in being a dedicated father and husband is so much greater than when I was sort of this wild animal. I feel like you've never really had a real friend. for a long time he had taken a lot of shit from this industry. And here he was sort of on top of about my friend and you know i was really brokenhearted about it and time went by, I mean, like two years and, you know, I know how much, you know, acting is not

2:13:18 make sure they don't do it again and your job now as this guy's being a father is to to step in there You cannot do that. this fluency with his victim. No, no. And I thought that, you know, what this woman said to me was, you know, of people who told you, you know, you're the worst guy on earth for doing it. Or you can weigh the and about retribution, about their emerging from this

2:18:11 you know, were saying like, hey, just get me a meeting with him, you know, are now saying, Brilliant guy. And one of the things we talked about was Will Smith slapping Chris Rock. something just so fucking stupid, but it's not like he doesn't realize it. You know, last time I saw Chris, it didn't come up at all. For a lot of comics, being able to host the Oscars is like you're not just in.

2:21:43 his relationship with Will Smith is. What he's already done. I mean, Yeah, set up your phone. Say something The embarrassment and shame that he felt from it And, you know, it was weird. And what was crazy is, you know, I'm an enormous fan of Chris Rocks, 100%. worst moments for their best and and try to get to the bottom of of what's going on you know but

2:26:00 Poorly thought I'm not thought out at all. You know just impulsive impulsive. Yeah And it's all bullshit. Well, you know, I got off in a way criminally, you know, because it was, you know, felony assault, man. had I get charged for a crime? Like, you know, and I think change for people respond to your letter depose her, you know, serve her, you know, trying to get a rise out of me. It was the biggest

2:31:04 And there's ways you can respond to those moments. of shit is pushing you from the back and you can just flatline them it's very difficult to not do But, you know, for me, you know, I mean, it sounds crazy. just as long as you, you know, but'm not i'm not gonna get into any you know And sometimes profound things can cause profound change. sort of means to,

2:33:56 man. Again, we're all just human beings. is that you're giving a voice to these thoughts and circumstances and we always like to look at a person as this static thing. people. One event leads into the other. The momentum carries him into a terrible place. It's so psychedelic because it's like, you know, people, oh, parenting changes you. it's so easy to make change for a little while and then slide right back into your old bullshit.

2:37:55 So it's like, I'm going to be committed to whatever I have to do for that. You know, I asked him, you know, what's the, you know, what advice would you give me, you know, being a father, he was just like, all that shit that I think so too I think this is a good way to end this There it is. Beautiful.