Joe Rogan Experience #1938 — Mariana van Zeller Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! like real boots on the ground investigative journalism. And then you took a backpack with the stuff and traveled with the... Season three is coming out. whether it's drugs, guns, fight clubs, I think the first story I did on guns in America was about 12, 15 years ago, where I was able Of course. Isn't that funny? You know, come on.

2:33 Look at me. Backpage. And and then, yeah. So then we decided to do this for the first season, actually, of Traffic to Story on Guns and how American guns are winding up in the hands of the cartel And I'm trying to take away people's rights to own a gun, which is absolutely not the case. And it's scary. It doesn't mean that it has to be 3D printed. Yeah. And he's a strong believer in, he said he wanted this, his company to be sort of the

6:40 There's the liberator. It's evolved a lot. But yeah, but if you want to see some of the new ones and what they're making, yeah. Because I've seen carbon fiber barrels for hunting rifles. And they're illegal, actually, in America. And it is more often than not because of a lack of opportunities that they end up involved in a life of crime. And I think, you know, there is the idea that no matter how far I travel to the

9:57 He was a—I can't remember what he was by day, but he showed up wearing a swastika. And it's the danger of the internet, right? Maybe if the world is, if they feel like the world is not as unjust towards them, they It's like these poor, sad, lost people. It is. We did one on LSD, psychedelics. And in the end, we got access to a chemist who is no longer a chemist, but it was one of the most powerful interviews we ever did.

13:37 They all told us how they were doing it because of the power of the drug and how LSD has changed them and transformed them. So he felt like his life's meaning was to provide it. It's decriminalized in Portugal. And he was part of the bomb-sniffing crew that goes looking for IEDs. all the medication that was available for him by the traditional medical community.

16:46 A shaman who helps him. And we filmed one of his first sessions with a therapist, with somebody that sort of a shaman, I guess, a shaman who helps him. It's life. We spend time with some people who are using it as therapy. Oh, microdosing does that way better than weed. you you can decide that life is normal if you do the same thing every day and you have a limited

19:09 I see your position. It changed the way I look at life. Yeah. I think it's a person. It changed the way I feel about things. It changed the way I treat people. Changed the way I look at life. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a, it's a tool and I had a joke about I had Alex Berenson on, I don't know if you know who he is. He was, he used to be with the New over the edge. And I think that's a real possibility. Yeah. But I think you can apply

21:55 America by the pharmaceutical companies. Yes. Well, that's how I found out about you from This was 2005 or 2006. And in my case, my husband at the time was my boyfriend. He'd write. And it's called American Pain. buying and the doctors wouldn't even look at them and they were prescribing pills like it was Tic-Tacs. But I'm driving and my husband's filming and they're right behind us.

25:15 And these were big guys. So we're at 995. They had no idea, confused by what was happening, that they just parked behind us and came out of, and they never came out of the car. So those were the guys that were following you, the guys that owned the organization? trying to look into them. Yeah. Well, they found a loophole. Did they just spill the beans about what they did? They talked a lot about

28:43 to them. No one did time in prison. And it's so sad when you find out how many people lost their lives and how many people, even if they're alive, their lives are destroyed. I had my nose fixed. Because I had had knee surgery and I also didn't take pain pills. the pain because I remember getting up because I had to go to the bathroom and it was like liquid fire was going through my knee.

30:57 Why is it going to get worse? Like if it doesn't, if it just is mildly uncomfortable now. And like, Yeah. And I think it's the only CEO of a company that he's now in prison, actually, for what he was doing. But yeah, he was bribing, essentially. And he was charged only for breakthrough cancer patients, vacations and to go to speaking I'm your friend.

33:44 which was the biggest thing that didn't. it shouldn't be at the same place where you're prescribing them because then there's an One of the episodes we did this season that's coming out soon is about MDMA. go to these parties and I knew her well and she, um, yeah, she went off the deep end. Um, I haven't You have zero inhibitions and you feel so nice and feel so, yeah, you feel so, it's

36:49 There's a flip side to everything. that there had been a kid in a school close by, And then I found out that the biggest, I don't know if you know this, We had heard about that. Who brought that up recently, Jamie? Someone brought that up about that or at least try to. Yes. But I think we already are so deep in this problem in the so there was a man named John Norris, who we had on the podcast, who wrote a book called Hidden Wars, and he was a game warden in California. Oh, I listened to that book. It was really good.

41:07 They went in. Yeah, and they're risking their lives, and they're camping out there. that there is so much entrepreneurship. The people at the top, though? Yeah. But another interesting thing, going back to weed, a scene we filmed, which still blows my mind, was we filmed and this was a guy at the top So crazy. He was doing great. I started asking now almost everybody we interview because I'm fascinated by that.

44:35 Rug pulls? in the DeFi market. Do you know anything about crypto? A little bit. Yeah. So there's the DeFi absolutely buy it. And people start buying it. And after a few weeks, they basically sell all Yeah, the crypto market is very bizarre. We looked into it because I am fascinated about him. So by doing that, they, you know, thought they probably had some sort of protection, probably would have if that other guy from Binance hadn't sank their battleship.

47:46 You know? I just came from the Congo. Gorillas, chimpanzees, they're illegally being snatched. People who don't know what to do with their money and they like exotic animals. taking. I mean, it's taking a creature that has a genetic propensity for a very specific thing I do. We did a story on tigers, too. So we were filming with, we talked to Joe Exotic and Doc Antle.

50:24 Yeah, that's the one. So we or girls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one. became so popular. in Texas, Like there's animals like oryx that are endangered in their natural habitat And the thing about them is there's no hunting regulations in terms of like wildlife conservation will put limits and tag limits on animals because they're controlling the population

52:29 In Texas, there's none of that. So instead of hunting them, there is money going to the people who are currently hunting them, hopefully. The Pygmies was an example of that. It was really sort of sad, So I think, you know, one of the things that you see that are examples of success are when you make them conditions for tourists to come in and see and spend time with these animals. Going and seeing the gorillas was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. I

54:45 they start from the place where they had seen them the day before. And then they sort of follow oh, completely nonchalantly says, oh, it's right here. But yeah, we were from here to you, me to you right now. With the lowland gorillas, I can't remember. But you obviously you're not supposed to go up to them and touch them or, and as we were filming,

57:14 But he wasn't coming to attack him or anything. little bit it just almost like just letting them know like hey man i'll just drag you a little bit. Just almost like just letting him know like hey man I'll just drag you a little bit just to let you know. Silverback And just lets him go We all sent around this video joking that our producer is called Paul and he was the one that got the closing counter.

58:41 But these chimps can go for tens of thousands of dollars. Really? Did you visit any of these private zoos? Just really, really wealthy people? People pay and want to take selfies with wild animals. And the bottom ones they call lion killers. Oh, wow. And they have a crest on their skull like a gorilla does. Endangered? And they have video of one of them eating a jaguar.

1:02:49 But they call them lion killers. Yeah. Yeah, something like that. The sons will have sex with the brothers and sisters. It's a really fascinating. in high demand. And again, they go for hundreds of thousands of dollars. And yeah, I think we tend to usually point the finger at the hunters and the middlemen, the people that are catching It's, I don't understand it.

1:05:43 And there's someone alone in their cell just screaming. We went to a few like sanctuaries for chimpanzees and apes in the Congo and we had the chance of spending time with some baby chimps. They would love to be our pets, but that's just not the case. To purchase them? And when my friends come over, they're going to be impressed by the fact that I own this tiger or this lion or this gorilla.

1:07:46 Like, have you been spotted? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, boy. Or you have no idea. And then there's also the people that say, you should do a story about, you know, all the conspiracy theories that exist out there. And all of our information is, which actually is true. A lot of hate. It was some people in the 1970s when they started making laws about drinking and driving

1:09:45 See if you can find that video. Watch this. It's kind of getting common is when a fellow can't put in a hard day's work, put in 11, 12 hours a day, It is incredible. And, you know, Trump fucking, he's their king. I get a lot of people say and pay people to do this. Have there been subjects that you tried to investigate, but you couldn't get access and you couldn't do a story on?

1:12:22 LSD was one of them. Dirty Bombs. into dirty bombs. It's actually explain a dirty bomb to people that don't— which are really powerful bombs that have enormous devastating impact on a lot of people. Has that ever been implemented? Has anyone ever detonated a dirty bomb? We did 10 episodes. And basically we were trying to figure out where their money – they're involved in the drug business and we were trying to figure out how involved are they and if they were in, what's the name of the town that hosts,

1:16:25 at Sturgis. It was, it was such a, for, you know, I'd just come, it was like the second episode we these bars and people partying and sort of outlaw group that was born in America, that was made in America. So unlike the mafia in some of the craziest, largest undercover operations in America's history, where he was Well, they don't work. The drugs and how they make their money.

1:19:00 I watched one episode. fiction in mixed in there's a lot of like craziness mixed in with the reality of it and that you know We went to the funeral of one of them. And we got a lot of middle fingers and people that weren't happy that we were there. Yeah. Yeah. So they've turned to places like Ukraine. as they head into Ukraine. and I was able to get on a plane and go straight.

1:22:36 And then holds their baby and meets their baby for the first time. And what happens is when it becomes people, like you said, they have to find, they're going to find a way to do what they want to do. I think they basically like the couple mixed their sperm together so they wouldn't know I don't know, but they didn't get the baby. It's a very strange situation.

1:24:51 So she was felt like she had. Maybe they just said, okay. What other things did you cover? And there's Boko Haram. world. That's the Niger Delta. It's basically It's basically swamps that are filled with oil, post of being a king. So we visited the king at his palace. And it was a proper palace. And we here yeah this is it you see that photo up there jamie the one at the top the big one look at that

1:28:25 Yeah, it's really, and it speaks to the desperation. them my press pass, telling them that I'm a journalist. I promise I'm not here as an oil You could have made this up. How did they steal the oil? And we ended up interviewing a Hezbollah operative. much power. They basically make holes. plastic bags on their backs. Heavy, dangerous, hot oil, diesel in this case, once it's refined.

1:32:42 where they were rehabilitating former Boko Haram militants and spent time with them. And if we can get at those motivations, we can actually do something to prevent these black markets from existing. And I think that's what's missing is that we're always trying to sort of put a cap on these black markets, whether it's the war on drugs, you know, or whatever it is.

1:34:50 of people without opportunities. Well, what you do is so important, because if people didn't have Yeah. These people, what they call artisan cobalt mines, you know, it's basically What is his book, Jamie? having this conversation with him and realizing that every smartphone has this in it. profitable, if not more profitable. And since then it's now the Clan del Golfo, which is sort of the

1:38:02 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they barely are surviving off the money they make working 12 hours a day, digging into the ground. Fight clubs? Yeah. That was a really good one. I mean, I don't watch it as much, or I don't watch it ever. I used to really like it. Actually, I think that's the first time I remember hearing about it. I used to really like it.

1:40:16 That was 2005. The Ultimate Fighting Championship is the name of the organization, and that was started in 1993. And also people had like a distorted idea of what it was. Which was so smart because it got people like me that I've never even watched or been interested in boxing to become obsessed with MMA. So haven't been a follower since, but having liked it at some point in my life and followed

1:42:27 Oh, you would love it. It was fucking crazy. Everything is allowed. So we went there. It's sort of this, it was this garage turned into it was like 20 kids or something, and You see people biting? And it was a big draw because the underground fight that these two kids had fought had millions of viewers and people loved it. And and it was boxing again. Lots of kids, lots of gambling.

1:44:44 And you're supposed to have paramedics on site and an ambulance on site. None of that they fought for big organizations like the UFC and didn't do that well. And he said, not so much, but this case, this kid, this 18-year-old, Like the only reason why your hands are good weapons as a fist really is because your hands protected by wraps and gloves. And wouldn't that be more honest if you didn't have protection on your hands?

1:47:56 there is in bare knuckle fighting. But there are more lacerations that happen when it's a bare And he fought in Bare Knuckle towards the end of his career. It's crazy. I don't want to ride a bull. I don't want to stop someone from riding a bull though. And I think that's probably far You know, because I'm just worried about your face getting destroyed.

1:50:59 Well, you're getting concussions. I did a story on CT and bull riding. that do a lot of the damage. People that play soccer get CTE from heading the ball, believe it or not, which is crazy. You're going into it knowing it's not safe. in the ring or go back on people, or on top of a bowl um and and and But if you're sparring hard, you're getting hit.

1:54:42 How are you going to stop them from sparring? And they were very happy individuals, high achievers, great in school, lots of friends. Well, what Dr. Gordon describes is the damage to the pituitary gland. I think it's called APOE4 that makes someone more likely to get CTE. He was like 24 years old, and he was very happy-go-lucky normal. And then suddenly, you know, and he also, I mean, he had, I think he actually did have a lot of concussions, but it was, everything happened so fast.

1:57:18 so well in your life and what's the reason for your depression yeah so it's sort of a cycle better than this and I'm better than everybody else and I'm going to figure this out. I'm going to just keep doing it. Right. And it's their identity. And there's so many things wrapped Their movement's awkward. They reject it. there's also a thing that happens where

1:59:30 he's so happy and he thanks me. What does he do now? He does podcasting. Yeah. But it was a real Because a lot of brain damage doesn't even show up until years after the injury. And, you know, there's just, And then other people, they're just one or two knockouts and they're never the same person again. with him where you hear him talk now like he was planning a comeback years back and they interviewed him. And it's the most

2:02:31 a very, everything he did was very solid. He was very advanced at taking his punches and everything Just go to videos. I don't think they're going to show that he... I know there's ones with Terry Norris. This. going to propel me as the best fighter, powerful fighter in the world. It's going to make me a doomed. And it's only going to get or that Terry Norris was you,

2:05:43 You've devoted your whole life to being this Is this it? This is just a regular fight. Oh. too but it was in the middle of a highway overpass. had already picked two of these guys to go and fight with him for his league. The bare knuckle fighting thing, And there's a guy named Mike Yeah. It's very difficult to lure people away from the UFC. to be able to get these people.

2:09:52 Yes. what bare knuckle offers though is a different even more hardcore image it's like these guys It's the only one that has a pay-per-view every month, Yeah, and there is... it's a little bit underground still or some of these fighters are fighting in the underground. applied to many other forms of fighting. What I did see was that these kids were given an

2:13:12 The problem for me, or perhaps not the problem, but the big question that I raised was, was it incentivizing fights like what I saw in Detroit, what I saw in Florida and some of these places because they know that they're being watched, that these videos are going to go on YouTube, that there are promoters out there that are looking for. And it showed that someone who is a bare knuckle fighter really has, they're missing some skills that would allow.

2:14:46 But Kimbo was their main guy because he was so famous. That is true. But if you don't have an opportunity to fight on an amateur level, Perhaps. What I'm just saying is that it's a small percentage of the fight. that the vast majority of their fighters are also skilled So it's different. Yeah. Oh, bare knuckle. I would agree. That's all questionable.

2:18:51 professionals that relied on that gym for all of their training and they're they're planning their Exactly. But why were they telling people that he was going to lose? What they were doing was the fighter who was injured, He lost. fight. No, you could do that, but then you would have to still. even if he says, hey, I'm injured, but he's not. the fact this guy was allegedly discussed the fact this guy was unable to really compete and fought. So now no one's allowed to bet in the UFC. You can't even bet on yourself, which I think is kind of fucked. is going to win, like, let's say if your win bonus, your show money and win money is like

2:22:15 I don't think boxing is regulated the way the UFC is, where there's not a primary organization. They'll move to different organizations, but it's still Canelo Alvarez. is, why would you be able to? Yeah, but I mean, I can't affect the outcome. That's the thing. It's it was crazy like we calculated it up over like multiple cards but it was a lot of it was because

2:24:13 Brazilian. And then when you see them for the first time, you're like, okay, this is a champion. It is fascinating. A lot of people couldn't go to casinos. So they started either online gambling or going to underground poker games and underground casitas, which are all over the U.S. But they try to kill the fish and then the more hits you get, you get money out of it.

2:26:00 And eventually, after many months, we got access to one of them. Actually, his online name is He's really well known for poker. And he's got celebrities and rappers who go up to him and tell him, can you play my money or can you help me play? Illegal underground poker games. And we could put in our money and that's legal? Yeah. And then there's a bunch of guys around these tables playing. And we went on a raid with the sheriff's department, the LA sheriff's department, where they were basically raided a few of these

2:28:59 And so they would play for 24 hours, 30 hours. So dice. they're happening every single day, you know, dressed very, you know, in your own backyard, private room with you if you want to in some places, not all, but some of them. And so you're But why the other things? Drugs, because a lot of people were at home, spend time with a woman, for example, who's a single mother, a woman that we called Becky in

2:32:39 And she uses it. If it doesn't work, she will get her $8 back from the website. And we saw her But in his case, he was using the money that was given out by the went into purchasing, you know, things on the black market as well. So they just prefer it. is addiction to gambling. Really? Particularly among teens. Among teens? Yeah. Yeah. It's really,

2:35:39 You get these WhatsApp groups that give you a link between elite pool players and people could gamble online. for scams and the scams were he would put out books like weight loss secrets they don't want I bought one of the tables after they sold everything off. millions of dollars more. Before And I think he's just going to flee and go get that money.

2:38:19 It was all they don't want you to know. one of the commentators on these pool I got rid of it. in time at least if he came back to america he would have been arrested but he got in a feud So they had, see if you find bow dog fight on the beach. They brought in like Chael Sonnen fought for them. I couldn't work at a casino. I was like, what? Yeah. It's just the gambling world is a fucking shady world.

2:42:14 is the president And then the UFC wasn't going to have events there. But he's lost a million dollars in a night too before. I want a million dollars! fifteen dollars and i was like this is it and and i got like two free martinis as you're playing i Yeah, I mean, there's always the thing that we all know, which is by illegalizing it, You go there, these beautiful places.

2:44:49 That should not be allowed. The moment you start actually making McBunny, you're not allowed to go there anymore. They love gambling. So wait, so betting is still allowed in the UFC, but just not as part of the UFC? I mean, I'm sure there's a lot. I don't have a gambling addiction, but I do know people that do have a gambling addiction and it's a real thing.

2:46:32 Yeah. And then we found out it really is a thing. And he works for the Klan, and we got to him. When you watch the cocaine episode, we interviewed a commander in Colombia how exactly do you take a liver from somebody? I wanted him to explain, but do you have any medical So there's a lot of questions there. The video was really horrific, and we decided not to wear it,

2:49:16 actually in his case, we were able to corroborate a lot more. And he was a doctor with medical yeah, 100%. It's a very good question. I have no idea what I would do. It's the most dangerous, lawless part of the world. the cartel. Women are raped. It's a horrific, horrific journey. So we spent time filming right were able to interview a policeman who actually corroborated what we were saying.

2:52:21 for whoever pays more in Colombia or Panama or other countries around there, Mexico, and some of them, particularly the stuff that is and has to spend half of his day because they're not the same type, but she was able to donate to somebody else who eventually You go online and you can find people all over the world saying, I have a, you know, I need money.

2:54:09 Sorry. Well, the babies. Of course, on the record, it's impossible to find their humanity. But again, at the end of the day, I think the message is that in all, people in our society, the criminals, the outlaws. We're at least trying to understand because without understanding them, that was you? And if you were in that situation with no other ways to

2:56:37 Thank you, Joe.