Joe Rogan Experience #1942 — Mark Greaney Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the Joe Rogan experience Good. Like the fact that you have those thoughts in your mind and you can envision and create these scenarios in your brain. So she never complained about anything. Oh, I really love your podcast. They're they're very good when you're suffering. Yeah guy who turned me on. That's fantastic. Because I had read his first book and I was like, this is

3:16 Little did I know. I hadn't read any of his books. He gave me a copy I appreciate it. And if you're a writer, you want eyeballs on your work. I get 100,000 words to write a book or 150,000 words to write a book. Yeah. It's good. If you could pick a person, like an actor, if you could start from scratch, no disrespect to... Ryan Gosling. And then it fell apart and it came back.

6:23 So they wrote a script for it. and it was good screenwriters. Oh, my God. And as much as I love her, like I was like, well, this isn't going to sell books or get eyes in my work. Yeah, make it and call it something else. That you wouldn't expect, you know, in a big action film. How does he keep these perishable skills and his fitness up? If that guy's in a movie, you could say, oh, I think I've seen that guy in something before, but he's court gentry.

9:31 But I think if you have a movie that has an amazing plot and a great like trailer and Like how many years was it between you writing the book and then the film everybody's like, There it is. Chris Evans is great in that too. Yeah. He was terrific. Yeah. He, he really played Yeah. It was great. So 23 books in 12 years, something like that. But I like to write and I like to think about books and stuff.

12:33 And, you know, I don't I'm not super fluent in any foreign languages, but I speak some German and some Spanish. And Gray Man was actually my fourth completed novel. something a little bit more mainstream and I got that in front of an agent and he said it wasn't And I like to do research and I like to type stuff out and fix it So what was your job? It's a medical device company.

15:48 just a paperback mass market paperback. It wasn't a big release. It was gray man. It turned into came in. So I went to my boss. I've been at the company for like nine and a half years. I went to into my cubicle right afterwards. She's like, I'm going to talk to HR and see if they will stories that could have gone either way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's a sad version of

18:31 And I would not, you know, Yeah, I think the best inspiration You do stuff wrong. Yeah. I would not ever be a Formula One driver. I would not ever be a Formula One driver. You know, it's like, I think you sort of have to like play into your strengths and And then you start learning a little more about these people. that's based on an understanding of your competence.

21:09 And, you know, I am a prolific writer. The first time you gave someone one of your books to read, like, were they all like the Gray Man, like the early book? Wow. So I loved it and i and i loved thinking up But maybe it wouldn't, because I think some of what comes out in your writing is actual What could I, what could have been, but now it's worked out really well.

24:07 savage fantasy novels yeah about conan the barbarian yeah and he did you know all of them I don't want to make him like this square jawed, you know, like total badass. And it's kind of a fucked up compass. And I was like, OK, if I'm reading this book, I'm going like, don't be an idiot. And I never really got much negative pushback from that at all.

26:37 or anything like that. Write me something else. He's like, yeah, it's great shooting those guys from a mile away. the bad guys have to miss their shots a lot more than the good guys miss their shots yeah yeah so Like, how do you do it? and a little more. And I'm like, well, there's no tension here. It says, every first draft is shit. And it's like, oh, that doesn't make sense.

30:58 Yeah. It's not to disparage the idea of getting clean and sober. but even in his later years But, you know, chaos ensues. Really? It was like so intense. His book on writing is really inspirational. Yeah. sadly my um my my concentration levels at this point in my life is not what it was 15 years ago If I did that for a couple of weeks, He could just like literally just sit in front of a computer

34:27 How long ago was this? What are you doing? I don't do dairy or gluten, but that's pretty recent. Charge the brain up. whatever. And so I like to get in there as, as quickly as possible, look at as few emails as times where I'm just sort of not 100% there at the dinner table for a minute because I'm thinking And so a lot of guys do that same thing that you're talking about.

37:36 And then you're always thinking of the next book you have to write. adderall but it's like i want it to work quick yeah i've i've tried adderall because some people You ever try marijuana? Oh, it puts you in a wild state of mind. you trip balls. That's why when people eat edibles, they're like, oh, it doesn't, I think And then I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to die from a jellyfish sting.

40:26 I bet there are. What do we got here? Yeah, but breathing difficulties, shock, and even death. I didn't know that Florida jellyfish can kill. It's not showing Florida. Right. Yeah. And looks back and they apparently they saw just blood in the water and thrashing and they never found her body I feel like you can give a dog your arm and then cut its neck.

43:22 But if it's a shark, you can't even move good. I'm like, cool. They scare the shit out of me. Anything that dies. Literally almost takes his leg off. It still looks like, you know, this big, massive thing. No. Do you train at a tactical place? And I took a bunch of those. he's been there, done that guys, So when you were talking to these special forces guys,

47:36 Black rifle coffee t-shirt. Yeah. I wouldn't do it, you know, because it's six stories. It wasn't like he's just like, yeah, sew me up while I drive. And I think he might have done it with no anesthesia. so he ended up working by touch without gloves. dark stain at Wow for a two-hour operation Wasn't Tupac shot like nine times? Yeah. Both are correct, I believe.

51:44 Yeah. What are you saying? Yes. Sometimes, yes. You know, just people that read the book and say, you know, it's too violent, blah, blah, blah. yeah then they're going to write a review based on someone who actually enjoys the genre yeah And then the professional reviews or whatever. There's some things that somehow universally love. Adam Sandler. it does and and he's just doing something different than what the critics i remember

54:40 who had all the chicks with him with his open shirt. Yeah. Yes. You know, I like it when they're just assholes. And so they try to tear down other people's work, whether it's film critics or movie critics or even standup comedy critics. They're just, they just, they don't have anything to contribute. Yeah, but it's good for tearing apart other people's stuff and it really likes snarky way

57:56 the story right yeah they're just not good yeah it's what it is you're you're you're getting it's Yeah. Yeah. and creative because you certainly do yeah like i remember roger ebert um well who's you know Now I know why you're a critic. It's so bad. Yeah, so why don't you Google Robert Ebert terrible screenplay? Well, I mean, that would be it. He is murdered when someone places a ravenous piranha fish in his bathtub.

1:01:02 after she accidentally kills him. Yeah. be, you know, usually if you're published, you're able to write a sentence, you know? That's where, or a tweet about it. That's what I think is more valuable. You know, I'm like, okay, that I'm accepting. If a person's problematic, like if you're going to crowdsource a J.K. Rowling's book Yeah, yeah And I'm sure that happens.

1:04:40 And she just came at me with this rage. And I guess I just got what I wanted. Yeah. And it was sort of like, you libtard West coast liberals don't understand anything. And I'm going like, okay. All right. you know, like state college or, and you know, it's like, I'm not trying to sell myself out as Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. wife was like, Oh, you're watching your boyfriend. She was always joking around. And so I meet him

1:08:37 because it was like the last phone that I as as a famous person i realized like we're just all the same right we're all just people right You get a little bit protective because one out of 100 of them can ruin your life. Oh, Jesus. And it's been going on for years. He's like, I don't want money. because she was in the phone book in Memphis and I wasn't in the phone book in Memphis. And she's

1:10:54 And he said, instead of him saying, sorry, can talk you into that. You're like, I don't have the bandwidth. There's no room for you. There's no But I'm like, is it the same for you where it takes a couple weeks of your free time to read a book? Like your friends. It's impossible. I would literally have to have another life right to just interact clone yourself

1:13:26 It's not even really want. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. Mark I'm your biggest fan I mean yeah she's so good She got that role Yeah, he was really good. There's some people that just like, And then she gets fat Yeah, she looks like a killer. She fucking nailed it. but she nailed it and then she bounced right back like it's crazy yeah like people like that that's

1:16:52 But hit, I mean, which is almost more violent, right? Um, that's, uh, I guess this comes know, like it is, at least this aspect of my life, you know, it's like, it's never right. It's never And then we'll go to a copy editor and I'll get it. one that looks at it before a proofreader goes and like make or a copy editor goes and fixes the But to their credit, they made changes and they got it in there.

1:19:19 Ray Porter does Jack Carl. Jay Snyder. Yeah. Yeah. And I listened to the Ray Porter thing, and there's like six female Mexican, you know, Or do they have to like set up for each individual character and like The worst at it, unfortunately, is Stephen King. He's great at writing, but when he reads it, it's like he's reading it. I would farm that out

1:21:12 I'm just going to read this. and it's really good. And he read it. I love when they read their own stuff. I got to choose Jay Snyder, but I only got to choose between two audio book narrators. And I actually liked them both. It was really cool. Last year I did an Audible original audio drama. So it's not a Gray Man story, this other book that I have called Armored. And I wrote an audio play. So they have sound effects and music and actual actors instead of narrators.

1:23:23 yeah it's like an old-time radio play if you think about it. real yeah you're making a world you're making okay, I've taken all the parts off of the cars that I have in the back of my house, you know? Or this guy is following another guy down a street. Do you feel like there's going to come a time Like there's some big geopolitical thing that's really happening in the world.

1:26:50 all right, who's left? You know, we can't bring in people from outer space. You know, One of the things to me that's been interesting about your books is going from the original They're going to be able to recognize him. You know, it's like I'm an MI6 guy using my real name out there in the field. He's a fantastic thriller author. some kernel out of what's really going on in the world,

1:29:19 It's Josh Duffy's series, which is only one book right now. wrote the first gray man like the the older guy who you know was like his boss hanley i think was Yeah, it is tricky. If you'd like to buy the new book, I'd love to sell it to you. That's tricky. Yeah. Yeah. They're making a new one know. How many Spider-Mans have there been? At least four, right? Yeah. Yeah.

1:31:52 Oh, wow. Like physically, Yeah, exactly. The process of watching your work become a film has got to be very weird. series? Are they going to continue doing a second one? Yeah. Yeah. And they're right. And they're Yeah. Thank you. one of the screenwriters on Greyman. I didn't ask permission. It is really weird. I wasn't mad that they didn't do it my way.

1:35:54 So this whole interaction is like, I don't know what to tell you. I want creative control In his book, the character Jack, it takes a long time before he goes crazy. head he was pretty literal about you know he's he's at this stage when i wrote this book he's a I've read places. Red October was good. yeah yeah i forgot about patriot games too yeah yeah well it well, it's so interesting when you get a known commodity,

1:38:31 And I like that in my book, The very first scene in the movie, Billy Bob Thornton is a CIA guy sitting in a prison carry frags? That's some hardcore cops. And he throws it, blows something up. And I'm like, working on um working on it slowly amidst other things and just kind of like plotting out and And so I wanted to do it forever. and we went to Nellis Air Force Base, and we did research and research,

1:41:54 And I did it and I was really happy with the experience. So I had all these things that didn't involve writing a book. And I wrote Burner, which went I have a little home gym and listening to podcasts about stuff that would be, you know, in the next book or reading stuff and slowly taking notes. I'm insecure as a writer, so I hate what I'm doing 95% of the way I would like to. I'm insecure as a writer.

1:44:21 There is a heart to this thing. I think that feeling of never having a good balance is part of the creative process. I've talked to great comics. And when I was trying to get published, like I literally had appointments to talk to agents and I never left my hotel room because I just chickened out, you know, and that happened. Because you're such a huge fan.

1:46:19 I get to go to other countries and talk to people and then write fun stuff about shit blowing up. Let's be friends. But we had the same editor. as I was at first, I also knew enough about the publishing world to know that that book was going to be due whenever I started writing it, that the due date wasn't going to change. it was just like, I didn't worry about plot. And I was just like, there's a scene. And I gave them them that and then they had me go up to Baltimore and meet Tom and then I had the job.

1:48:23 They – I mean I'm'm already don't have the focus What they are is essentially building blocks for human neurotransmitters. You can buy it on Amazon. Seriously? And I like that one too. It was on San Francisco. And he gave me some. and we funded two double-blind placebo-controlled studies its best. just really felt like like something was going on in my head and yeah and once i turned that book in

1:52:10 But I think if you looked at it comprehensively, the overall robustness of your physical body, your body's ability to generate energy, function at a really good pace, and to just be overall healthy, I think is very I had just gotten divorced and I lost a ton of weight and I wasn't sleeping. That's a great psychiatrist. beings evolved with, with anxiety and fear because of actual real threats.

1:54:25 as was explained to me that, sort of anxiety that if you don't meet that physical requirement your body's For me, in times of peak anxiety and peak stress, nothing makes me feel better than scooter and not able to, I mean, barely able to work out. So I have two levels in lumbar discs. What year was this? Is it titanium? And it's done great for me. Still?

1:58:07 Well, so I had a second surgery to kind of get that disc material out. have two levels of that and And my back pain, 65% Osteomyelitis. And all the while you're writing, too. I just can't dorsiflex. do physical therapy. It's like, I know all the exercises cause I've been to like 10, 12 bouts Well, there's some places that you can go outside of the United States where they can do some pretty phenomenal stuff with stem cells because they don't have the same regulations that we have here because of the FDA.

2:01:25 He can't feel his legs now? who uh fucked his back up compression yeah yeah and uh they were going they wanted to fuse his which strengthens the back. Yeah, that would definitely decompress things down there. It strengthens that area and it's alleviated any issues that I had. I used to get the occasional sciatic pain. Where literally all your weight

2:04:15 And there's ways around the surgery. That's awesome. i've got some of his tapes and stuff. It's a slow recovery process. I saw him the other day. spar and condition himself and get in shape without doing any wrestling. his neck was so fucked up so he just kind of had to like spar and condition disc replacement in his neck where Then had to get this operation.

2:06:56 Not only went back to it, went back to it better than ever. body this is extraordinary yeah and it works for him He's got a fake disc in his neck. Yeah. You're fine. Yeah. like, Hey, I've never felt better. Right. Right. And there's also, there's this perspective that again. God, I appreciate it. But when you're healthy, you're like, yeah, normal day, whatever,

2:09:35 When you're injured like that, do you, does that sort of aid your writing in a way? if I'm an assassin, you know, they're only asking me if I'm popping pills. But I can understand I didn't take them regularly there's nothing And then he had to get it reconstructed, like literally rebuilt. And he got hooked on pain I had one knee surgery. like, all right, I'm going to be standing for a long time. I'm going to take one now, like preemptively or whatever. And I feel dopey. And so I do get

2:12:56 You're like, hmm, I've been doing this a lot. Your frequency's a little different. Obviously, he's doing crazy pro wrestling. Cool. Yeah, yeah. because i don't know it's it's kind of like i hate to use that term me time but you know it's Me either. You get used to it. You should read or of the sauna for 20 minutes had a 40% decrease in all-cause mortality.

2:16:45 Especially when it gets to like 20 minutes. And I generally do it post-training. You need an ejection seat I don't recommend doing that Yeah, yeah. Maybe today would be a nice day to relax. I'd probably you'd see it to be jacked. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, I probably don't take it. the most disciplined fucking human being to ever walk the face of planet earth i love his book

2:19:30 but he never lets of his toe yesterday. he's gaining knowledge That looks like something on a mummy. I mean, he runs on those. His toenails to himself all the time. I mean, he runs on the, his toes fall, his toenails fall off all the time. He's so crazy that he had bone on bone on his knee where it was so bad that the bone was starting to deform. Insane. How do you know Look at his other toe. His other toe. Insane.

2:21:33 I mean, surely he knows something about footwear. This is probably back when it started, 2016, when he had almost a full nail. So that's no nail. knee. Do you have that? I can find it Oh, that's his handprint. I see, yeah. No, he doesn't have to. Wow. Yeah. It's super inspirational for other people. And he talks about his fears. What the human body can do if the mind is on the

2:25:29 it's improbable. It's not unreal. You know, it's not impossible. And, and, um, you know, it's like, Yeah. Is that a weird part of the imposter syndrome? it by, like, learning specifics and stuff wasn't the interesting thing to me I'd be like wait what did you say about how you took Makarov's the nugget that i've never heard of that i need to know details and why that would do that and it's

2:28:41 Yeah, a lot of it's classified. Just denied, you know, like black ops or, you know, like things that they don't admit. Yeah, it's just a term they use in the government a lot for something that's, you know. Yeah, yeah. different everybody was a Navy SEAL at that point and this was before bin Laden you know everybody It's a very interesting origin story.

2:31:12 and then I, like him at all. They don't want him to do it. You went to the Pentagon? Yeah, the first book I did with Tom Clancy, I've written these paperbacks. with each thing in the military and you go through them. Or in some examples, I've just known a guy how's that conversation even get like, how do you get in the Pentagon? It's funny. Yeah. You know, it's just like there's just a lot of baloney about what people say.

2:35:50 interesting. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I have such respect for the men and women that, That's one of the things that the military and special operations, I mean, the whole point of Hell Week for Navy SEALs is to get you to believe. It's, do you feel like a responsibility when you're writing to sort of reflect that, that, you know, you have such a deep respect for these people that you have to write that in a way that sort of portrays that in an accurate sense.

2:38:36 and then at some point go off, you know, And so I'm looking at real cases. for a long time. Yeah, do you know that guy? There was a gentleman that was involved in Russiagate, are the people that are going to be paying you off. and these people came ashore in some kind of a tender from a big yacht. They hold his money, and he allows them to do what they do, and they allow him to do what he does.

2:42:50 you know kleptocrat and They had this mobilization last fall, And, you know, that's pretty awful if you think about it. And things went really bad. I mean, if you're an autocrat like that, It was kind of this feedback loop. It's always been the case for those type of leaders, sadly. from that now i'm now i'm self-correcting in that matter. couple of details but the actual real person that was doing that is you know is now in prison so

2:46:52 Looking forward to your next books. and it comes out? It comes out February 21st. Oh, so real close. Next week? Yeah. Oh, nice.