Joe Rogan Experience #1955 — Cliff Gray Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. You know, it's funny, I was looking at it, I think it's been like five or six years since our first interaction. But when my dad was an adult, he was a cattle rancher, and then he went back to vet school. And we can get deep into why that didn't last. But he's doing okay. If you're happy, you chose the right thing. Unless you have a fucking time machine.

3:06 You would be constantly filled with this anxiety of making sure that you don't do the thing that you have already done That makes sense. Right. you would never i would have never imagined this in the my wildest dreams that's funny but i meant You have so many dependents. There's so many people depending upon you. You have so many responsibilities. to great success as a finance guy. And that's when I met my wife. And then I like, I tricked her,

5:40 you know, nor did I, but they kept me comfortable. bought an outfitting business that had been you know pretty much run into the dirt you know and guy that just said, Hey, I'm going to do something cool and independent. an undergrad in school, I hunted all the time and I had done a bunch of guiding and I was exposed to was young at a business school, me and my brother started a financial company and it changed,

9:05 to get, to go back to Colorado. I was born in the area, you know, where, where I did most of my I'm like Bob we shouldn't talk about it man he's like all right dude go for it well that's great so literally like a week later me me and my wife we moved to Yeah. And so when you're operating in the wilderness areas, you've got to have federal permitting.

11:32 you're talking about hundreds of thousands of acres and you're talking about elk that are pretty once you get established and you keep people happy and it's like sort of word of mouth yeah Yeah. these big chunks of space in colorado i mean, it's all good elk habitat. horses and mules. Do you guys go in and set up a wall tent? Yeah. And then are you there for

15:02 and there's just some logistical reason a lot of times it's better to backpack on them um but on elk it's almost always you're so you're packing your Yeah. you're amish but uh but no so the answer to your question man, it just depends on what church they're from and the rules that they have established and what they're doing. That's the whole thing.

17:03 Hardworking people. and do drugs and is if you take an 18 year old Amish guy and you're just doing stuff around like ranch, putting them on a buggy every day, you know? So it's pretty, it's just, it's just wild that world or right you can use in the business world but the reality of education is you're learning Yeah, and that's why I don't mean to make a judgment on them.

20:13 And it's like if you have that kind of time and that kind of commitment and you, you know, maybe you're just not very happy with a regular school system. instructor, I said, actually shouldn't really do it that way. Cause like they weren't, you know, as belt in jiu-jitsu, I'm like, you're actually going to get your back taken if you teach people this path.

21:23 And they love that you know something that they can learn. Oh, yeah. It was really exciting. It's fun to be able to teach your kids something. And they love that you know something that they can learn. And it's like, it gives them pride. So where do you stop the technology where do you start and he actually had a rational rational There's odd things that they do.

23:21 loophole. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Series. But is it So what is it here? What is that? no outside programs, no sound, no photographs, What year is this from? That shit is so annoying. Well, I guess they'd have to have a phone line. When you drive to them. I think that was like, Yeah. And what that is is they've got hay underneath it, and they ferment it. And then I'm sure there's some nutritional aspect to it too.

26:56 dead area sure where the they've raised cows yeah yeah no i hear you but christ it stunk i couldn't Right. And you don't realize, you know, you're out there, you know, out there feeding the horses Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, man, if he tried to pick up, like, a bear shit or something, I'd be like, ah. Because it's interesting how animals approach the smell like i have a golden retriever and when he find i have a fox that lives

29:14 I think for him I don't know why that is. I'm like, dude. You'll have to get an expert on in that regard. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, so. you have almost no influence on it they are they are wild they are living in the woods and wolves are dominant intelligent calculating predators yeah that they eradicated I know the spot intimately. I could get on a horse and I could ride for 15, 15 hours and not see a road, you know,

33:46 You know, have you ever been to Vail? and then kicks back into Aspen. I guess what I'm getting at is when somebody tells me that the low hanging fruit to kind of rewild that areas is wolves. It's just bullshit. You know I mean, you're dealing with biology and wildlife. No. Right. if you don't think they're going to go after easy prey, you don't understand wolves.

37:01 I mean, I don't think it's good to eradicate them. wolves in colorado either it's gonna ever but no yeah so basically that's crazy yeah and so that hundred a hundred species in colorado i personally think and i you know not everything's like 2020 how much they affect the ungulate population. They're cool. trying to make a living on the landscape. a pack and they have some sort of intelligent communication.

40:54 They find them, I think it was Wyoming recently, but they found just like a fucking giant pile of elk that they had trapped in high snow and just tore to pieces. the details you know like boiling his snares you know how he goes in and puts his snares in Oh, yeah. right i'm like come on dude let's go outside and it just starts going towards the door yeah oh yeah

42:50 Those are the dogs that they use in war. They're always thinking. Like, soaring through the air. That's a wolf. It is nuts. are look you can walk across a type rope look at that and that insane i mean that's fucking insane So there's big, big domestic sheep permits where I used to outfit. Oh, Jesus Christ. they see you up there like they want to they want to hang out you know say hi or whatever just happy

46:36 wolves can't get a hold of them because these dogs are big like they're a lot bigger than a That's what I was thinking. You know, just, you know. I mean, this idea that it's always good when you reintroduce predators. Wolves are eventually making their way into Colorado anyway. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it Yes It fixes all the problems, you know, with the range.

49:23 thinks that wilding and rewilding is the way to go for everything. They're fucking cool. but perhaps we're slightly less aware that they give life to many others. No, it's not true at all in Yellowstone. they got them in california for tohono ranch yeah yeah that might yeah that might that might be man because most the all the big transplants in colorado idaho like you know outside of the park they were they were

52:33 you have a Rocky Mountain elk. He's like, you have a Yellowstone elk. He's like, it's a different elk. What? Oh, yeah. There's a thing that happens with animals when they're in cold climates where mammals grow larger. And then you get all the way to Saskatchewan, there's 350-pound whitetails. in the world tend to be larger. Yeah, like if you compared like a South Texas whitetail to like an Alberta whitetail.

55:02 Right. I mean, part of that's probably like genetics or like selective breeding of elk too over time, which that does exist. just get giant yeah yeah yeah and that would make sense too i mean i was you know elk are funny I mean, the first time I saw a moose live on the hoof walking around was in B.C. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. horses they're what they're trying to do is they're trying to get more scent in so they can

58:29 and crashing through a bunch of crap just so the moose can stand there on the trail. You just see them when they glass them up, and the paddles on them are like... Are they shiris moose? By the time I, you know, 10 years later, we always saw moose and big ones, you know. No. I want to say like 15 years after they said they were extinct. They weren't around. And then a bow hunter went in there, I want to say like 15 years after they said they were extinct.

1:00:27 Here it is. What is up with this website? So they said they'd been extinct for like 20 or 30 years already. Because those people are actually there. So cocky. I mean, the neighboring states have. There's something that gets in There's a cool bear study, and, man, I wish I knew the gal's name that did it, It's wild. Yeah, I got you. And he's got like the, he's got his gun out and the whole deal, right?

1:03:47 Sure. Right. You ever seen like red mohawks? He's now in Montana. So his gun was not going to work. So I drew my handgun. I stayed dead still just with the pistol drawn, Like the slide. That is kind of funny. And every time I guided a black bear hunt, Joe, and like I walked up to a black bear, you know, with a hunter, it's not like they're not scary.

1:07:09 that is scary i was listening to it uh somebody talked about it recently i can't remember who it Yeah, yeah. one of the ones there was recently there was a montana a woman who was mauled who was killed Yeah. you know they do that yeah yeah it's strange yeah. It's very strange. It's wild. times what these black bears will do the sows will kick their they'll kick their cubs up

1:10:19 it's also illegal to do that, you know? didn't have a clear shot so we just kind of kept watching them and the bears kind of started But that gave the hunter the shot. while we got light just to maneuver around the canyon. some sort of like horrible mistake so I I trot down there and I remember grabbing this bear's Yeah, she's nearby and she's really vocal and she's

1:13:21 to video it but he just kept working down as his mom was calling to him. that would freak me out regardless 80 pound dog coming after you. Imagine that. And that's way scarier than a dog. It's funny. It was Yeah. Yeah. huge wolf fans none yeah they don't like them at all i know it's so interesting right go to boulder Exactly. Well, you know, the beautiful thing about this country is that everyone can vote. The horrible thing about this country is that everyone can vote. Yeah, yeah. It's an enigma to me, man. Well, you know, the beautiful thing about this country

1:16:33 It's like you can't – if you don't have an educated perspective on it, what it means to be a predator and a prey, weren't for the fact that um i't know the guy that he was with. You didn't say your name. Yeah. like if you take away the guts and the blood oh that's right that's what he said so it's 170 plus But it was, you know, I mean, I guessed. And as we were driving, he stopped.

1:19:38 And then I put my binos on him. They were so big. Like, you know how a deer or an elk, if you just go with your knife and you just get through the hide, like circle the joint, you know, maybe you nick the tendons a little bit. Yeah, see the forearm, man? but it shows that forearm thing, dude. And what they want to do, That picture to me, I love that picture.

1:22:19 cruising around with jack popeye forearms yeah they're they're lions are crazy man the craziest thing about them to me I was driving. They think it had gotten hit by a car. I think P-22 or whatever it was. Figure out something easy. What do they taste like? He likes it. We'll come back. and now I'm just drinking water all day. All right, let's pause for a bit.

1:25:35 Well, they're showing, and I can't, I mean, let me see if I can skip ahead to something. down here it's like passing The thing I thought was crazy is it understands memes, It says the humor from this image comes from the absurdity of plugging a large, outdated VGA connector into a small, modern smartphone charging port. I even saw already there's like a robocall company that's going to make it so that if

1:27:23 And I don't know where this goes or what happens. as possible this may sound like so asinine joe but i i just look at i'm like i i already feel But you can't eat them, right? I mean, obviously, you could eat them. So it says tarpon are rarely eaten because their flesh is filled with small, hard-to-clean bones. No, not in the flesh. Yeah. You have to just let it go.

1:30:21 Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. your kids instead of a photo of your kid you had a plastic version of your kid with fucking goofy It's someone else's cape. But don't you have a photo in your head? You know what I mean? dude i'll admit when i when if i go somewhere and somebody has one of those i like walking They're at my house. not not politically correct but when you walk in there they're gonna be they got a big interior

1:34:24 Or that, excuse me, that eat meat, rather, and don't like hunting. I was having this discussion. you know, half a steak and throw it away. Yeah. I don't know. Sure. Yeah. Well, it's all catch and release. I don't really enjoy it. the youtube deal you know and really really get that you put up some good really good content of time has given me some time to you know. I go fishing with my kids every other morning.

1:38:01 I know some people that live down there. i'm like that man so i'm like oh tarpon fish is die and then a spearfish and so i tend to get like cannot believe that we would release anything like his because it's not normal yeah he's like he like It's like, well, we're doing this. The barbless hooks. Probably. like five or six she had caught like a couple of like little snappers and stuff like that like deep

1:41:35 You get that little charge out of catching a fish. And I'm like, I'm so glad he said that because that's how I feel about – When you're hiding behind a tree and you're at full draw You can see it. and the smell of the fucking burning wood and the searing meat. know i had it uh oh the maui venison guys, they sent it to me. I'm sorry if I'm butchering it.

1:43:51 It actually, they've sent me a bunch of it. Sure. just like the the marksmanship component that went into it because they have to Because of Hawaii gun laws, I believe. it's like people they protect your zero it in right And they do. that that compensator at the end of the rifle barrel sure releases all the gases out the sides I think like, like the guy you talked to.

1:47:14 You know? You know what I mean? mean and the reality is it keeps if you've as a hunter it keeps you from taking sketchy shots The thing about all of it is that until you experience it, you really don't know. You're going to full panic. Like, you know, you've been in the mountains. have shot and i'm like why like why did you shoot and the only thing i can anxiety yeah it's just

1:51:21 rest and if you're prone in particular like god, God, I'm reasonably certain I'm going to fucking hit that animal every time. what I mean? Like I don't want to track my ass around looking for those, those Rams now that I go, it's hundreds of thousands of dollars There's actually not that many of them. by volume in terms of my experience mountain goat

1:54:19 mountain goats for you That's not mountain goats. I think that's a type of ibex. Don't fucking do it. What's going on? That's so beautiful. morning, but I got up late. Oh, I gotcha. Yeah. But no mountain goats are, I mean, they're, Yeah. which is starting to change a little bit, because I don't think i did a great And this is all documented. the elk and one of the main reasons it didn't happen is that the park officials,

1:58:51 look you're saying that the wolves did what they did in yellowstone and yeah they probably you know I'm not super familiar with it, but my understanding is it's basically trying to – are they directly buying up a bunch of private land? Yes. We're so smart. Like the steak in the garbage. It's like I would tell those people, it's it's just a lack of understanding and it's so difficult to truly understand unless you've

2:02:03 We've done this before. forever yeah i'm doing this now sure this is my new thing yeah i'm like i'm doing and he was I eat deer meat all the time. a little piece of this summer sausage. Just try. tell you in my business, Joe, oh yeah. Like I know that those guys, they probably got their influence or their motivation from you. You need those people.

2:05:05 I want to say it's 3%. What does it say here? But that's still. you're responsible for way more than 1% of them, man. Yeah, that's true. And also, there's plenty of opportunities for people that aren't wealthy. But here, it's like, I mean, it's, like you said, Right. They're everywhere. Yeah. When I got into hunting them,e like when you know you know dogs

2:08:16 Yeah. If you think you're going to stalk a mountain lion, you're going to go find them and stalk them. And I know a couple guys who have killed lions that way, Yeah. Well, first of all, people, let's explain it to people. It goes to taking care of, like, rangers. Incorrect. Right. What are you talking about? They're just – they're guys that grew up lion hunting.

2:12:40 And he was a hound's man, and he followed like the same toms year after year. Like just kill after kill, you know, for years would just be a bull elk and he might, you know, whatever. female lions with two kittens. And if I showed them to you, you're like, dude, that's not, Freaking cool. Man, I feel the same And you want to suppress the wolf population because of that.

2:15:00 hey, this ecosystem, there's a lot of people living here. And just so your listers know, that just means you can go buy a tag. Because if you if you that are that are running livestock like they're fucked yeah well you're gonna you're gonna have And it was amazing because there was hair everywhere. And we had gotten there just very shortly after it had happened.

2:18:23 And they're fucking mean to each other, too. Yeah. I don't know how much of it's true or proven, Can't find it? Oh, that's a cool picture right there. Let me try the moose. like oh this is happening constantly yeah like they're just a cleanup crew just burning through These wolves will get on the logging road, I wonder how they coordinate that. Yeah.

2:21:47 Yeah. Huge tarpon. but I've gotten really into throwing a cast net to catch bait. like, cruising down on my golf cart with my cast net. Yeah, well, and then they'll get that bait that had this swarm of them Yeah, they just whack them. How do they coordinate that? Yeah. It didn't really sell. We did some things like we did a fencing game. It's a great workout.

2:25:26 you hit him and you like you see his face snaps back sure and he hits you and you see like a white It's like you're playing a game, but like we had it at the old studio, and I did a couple of rounds. This is a great workout. When you fall, it's like. Between two buildings. Whereas you could just fucking put that headset on and all of a sudden you're on a mountain.

2:27:08 Like just going. Then I think, oh yeah there's so many things that aren't intuitive um uh like where do you start in There's great layers. Right. You have to put the peep in the right place right shit up to the bow rack okay you know uh in in oregon And so you need a place to practice. It's like you almost have to, in a lot of ways, if you get really into it, you almost have to, like, shift your lifestyle. Yeah. I mean, I guess that answers the question, Joe. You almost have to, in a lot of ways, if you get really into it, you almost have to shift your lifestyle.

2:30:48 pressure and stress of a different variety that's odd that that's the most pressure the most stress I really do because I think, uh, complex, difficult things that are very rewarding. trying to solve on purpose. You know, there's things like I went hunting with Ranella a couple months ago, and it was Yeah, because you're rattling in thick cover. So it was very exciting.

2:33:25 down yeah like that's you're just catching them when they think that there's a brawl going down That's it. Look at that. which for people at home, The esophagus is gone. Dogs or coyotes are kind of like that, too. They're kind of a... Shout out to Mike Hawkridge. Yeah. My man. I don't think hunting's for everybody, but I think it's for a lot of people.

2:35:35 he has an organization that trains people, teaches people how to hunt, I love going there. But this is his restaurant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He took diver ducks and made the most delicious shit you've ever had in your life. Well, man, in cooking game, it matters so much. I'm glad we did this. Yep. Beautiful.