Joe Rogan Experience #1958 — Andrew Huberman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the Joe Rogan experience as far as like it's all about more. I mean, I can had a chocolate croissant? I have. They do not have that out here for some strange I like how in New York when you get a soda, Oh, yeah, like the turtle where it constricted his shell. and it's fucking stunning and if we stop using plastic straws we're not going to put a fucking

3:00 and it has this collector that sucks up plastic and then they take that plastic and use countries, as you mentioned, are definitely lower GDP relative to the United States and China. Buy their trash. Like they might have a company that handles that. That's how I got my stuff out. And then, well, what's been really interesting to me is I followed this whole lab leak thing.

5:53 to get pangolin meat of all things. down this rabbit hole of trying to understand this exotic animal trade. And then, um, and then like me or another, Matt Walker, for instance, government and vice versa. And that's true of all laboratories in China, all laboratories. But human error happens. Well, they have been cited in 2018 for violating safety protocols

8:44 It's not that complicated. So it doesn't have to be that somebody had a plan to let this out. including the people that worked in that lab who got sick. And now there's some new stupid story A civet is like in the cat family, I believe. Yeah. It doesn't look like it. They, they hibernate. But many months before that, people were sick from this. I think the lab leak hypothesis is far more plausible.

11:50 of function you don't have the option yet crisper will allow this to put things back in that are A guy, he actually was a postdoc at Stanford, um, worked for a guy named Steve Quake and kind of up for a big discovery like this, everyone kind of circles maybe wanting that maybe they pretty luxurious with a laboratory. There's no question that CRISPR is going on there.

14:18 And people with Huntington's chorea end up with these writhing ballistic movements. If it's a late-onset disease, if they don't have it when they're young and they develop when they That's the best description I've ever heard That's a healthy operation of your brain saying, of neurons. So what's first to go there, however, is the Anything that's been shown to slow down the progress of Huntington's?

17:51 and pain, all three of those very close. Whereas pain relief, very closely related to menthol and work and I just handed you the data and your medical doctor you'd say this Is that a person or a brand? They developed this one that I really like, so he added that to my little three collection, What happened? I'm not. That one's rough. It's really delicious though and the other ones habanero Urfa chili and paprika and I love them all but I like really hot well

20:56 and ended up with what's called thunderclap headache. So when you want to take the brain out, people think, oh, you just kind of pop the brain out. Just eating one of those things. And it's an amazing set of discoveries But also to the hypothalamus, of spicy peppers resets your calibration for what's spicy. measure somebody's inflammation, et cetera, you'd say this person is dying. They're in a terrible

24:16 to look at what's happening afterward. And for some reason, as humans, we like these creature way way up like what temperature like 260 what 260 but i cover six zero but i cover my head wouldn't it have less of a positive effect? Okay. So this is great because what you're And those pathways can grow very, very quickly in the presence of heat. right because it's a trigger right it's going to shut it off when it hits a certain temperature.

27:10 I don't think he has a sauna set at 260. But I'm contrasting this with cold. But you're not a wimp. and exercise of deliberate cold and sauna studies on humans is hard to do it with multiple variables is even harder. And to do it in a real world context is even harder. Now, the people who don't like cold say, insulin sensitivity, which is a good thing. And the inability to do that is likely to not be healthy

30:29 mammalian dive reflex. And this reflex increases the so-called parasympathetic activity of the So I didn't know this. They don't feel good. Just get out right now. That's your opportunity to start negotiating with yourself Then I'm like, oh, God, here it comes. fifties. What? Low fifties or high forties. Why is it so warm? I don't know. Low fifties, high forties.

33:11 Well, here's the thing. I'm like, this is a fucking joke. 34. until I get down to the 30s on these cold plunges. Yeah. And, you know, what you can tolerate. I do a long run on Sunday. I'm not saying I don't go in every day. every day do you twice a day yeah well get in the fucking cold just do it all right i'll start going Yeah, I bet it is. And here's the reason.

36:55 This is on the order of many drugs. and the duration, how fast it rises, So I bounced back and forth for a minute in between. first thing in the morning just because I don't want to do it first thing in the morning. And Other people. Absolutely. It's past 10 p.m. I have to have my blue blockers on. light exposure at night as much as normally possible.

39:57 and bodybuilders do. Yeah. Inability to hang from a bar is correlated with lack of health in men and women. but sleep makes you mentally, physically better. You perform better. And then the last one is this Well, they've looked immediately after, you know, again. inflammation up is a good thing. So you have to be careful when someone says, oh, you know,

43:02 Do you know why that is? That triggers a cortisol spike. You probably, if I were to have you train at, you know, 2 a.m. when you went to bed why. Ah, but there's an easy experiment. This has been done. We just keep you awake for 24 hours. Sauna's dropping your core body temperature. Your core body temperature is fighting to get lower. I'm going to generate heat.

45:42 It's not subcutaneous fat, in Scandinavia, I learned this in researching the Soberg work. but then they say in the fall, what you're supposed to do is not walk I'm not saying wear a sweatshirt in the spring. Well, all right. Yeah. And at nighttime, I do the sauna in the house. the pulsing of blood through them. That's the whole basis of systolic and diastolic blood

49:29 really cold and then like five minutes. So that could be the drop, which is when your, As you wake up, your body temperature goes up, up, up, up, up, up. Because that's when body temperature starts dropping by one to three degrees. workout, I generally start really slow. I just do like a Shut up. it would be so valuable. Anna Lemke, who you add on here,

52:37 doing something that's harder than the state that you're in It turns out, and I learned this from Ana, if you do something that's even harder than If you give them their dopamine and give them movement disorder, Parkinson's. and over prescribed classes of drugs The other thing I learned, again, from Susanna, I take no credit for this, and I'm not suggesting people replace the cold plunge with

55:10 substantially. Do you know what I'm talking about? So this was developed by Craig Heller's lab. It's But in this case, you're missing one of those components. And this is a problem for all sorts of critical reasons And they found that they could bring them out of anesthesia heating of the muscle locally at a given weight with two minutes of rest in between,

57:49 of Palmer cooling, as it's called, or through some other I saw you do a bunch of pushups right there Now, the problem with palmar cooling but not so cold that you vasoconstrict. I actually got one for Cam that I still need to deliver to him. But if you hold on, Yeah, the relationship between temperature and sleep, And you can just do more work. It's all about the ability kind of plug in. Yeah. And you can just do more work.

1:00:41 I know a lot of jiu-jitsu guys like to do cryotherapy post-training and they say that it helps tremendously. And because of that reduction You know, people always say, well, what do these performance—do steroids make you grow muscle? Yeah. Floyd Mayer reportedly took banned IV prior to Manny Pacquiao in basal catecholamine levels. of the Adderall type

1:03:22 I've been shocked when You know, I think sometimes they're surprised you don't leap to to have that conversation. You're writing this article because you're being influenced to do so. That's why they put out articles that are not plausible. We would be in a really bad state because a lot of people got duped by the pharmacy, If it wasn't for them, we would be fucked fucked and it's one of the beautiful things about the internet today the internet today

1:07:25 They swapped the names accidentally. I mean, in science, all we have is our reputation. We're asking, I have to say, and I'm not this is not to be, you know, politically correct or incorrect. Administrators are under pressure. Well, they're allowed to now because Elon bought Twitter. You know, these things that when you compare that to the ability for people to have honest, open discourse,

1:10:30 And they come in a range of flavors and qualities. is not only foolish, it's dangerous. about vitamins and minerals, Things that are known to post surgery, postpartum depression, headache, I mean, fish oils. So there's this whole category of things that in theory you could get from food, but the volumes that you would have to eat and the sourcing is just impractical. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I mean, there's rhodiola rosea, which is, you know, reducing cortisol. There's interesting data on that. And then there's the stuff we've talked about before about hormone augmentation.

1:12:57 But will taking some additional magnesium help me sleep? like you know my you know when i was young i got into this you know training and supplementation or inositol and insulin sensitivity. So you're not overproducing insulin. pandemic, frankly, was that supplements are just kind of like nootropic that or, you know, it's lied to. That's the real problem is that the corporations who control these prescription

1:15:35 He goes on walks occasionally. It was a very high number, a very high percentage of hospitalizations and deaths could have theoretically Does it have the numbers? Yeah. I think people need to remember that scientific journals, determine, obviously, the reviewers have to give it thumbs up at some point. But we get to determine aside from the federal research budget,

1:18:42 If you have a giant budget, Not directly. So the PIs, this is the way it works. The lab heads, be someone comes to your laboratory and sees an opportunity to please the PI. This is, I think, but also it would allow them to renew their funding. gives themselves reasons why it was okay to remove data that occurs. I think I'm going to guess here. I don't know, but I'm based on my observation. That's probably about 10 to 15% of the top tier

1:21:32 Which is really crazy. neurodegeneration that's associated with Alzheimer's dementia. And it's been the way that people have what this has cascaded into over many, many years is an entire set of theories about which drugs has to do with if, you know, biotech is neither good nor bad, nor evil, nor anything. It's just, for 50 years. of science and science funding, it is very, very hard to impossible to get funding from the federal

1:24:37 like the same year, how did that happen? The whole system is, there's no way to bulletproof the system against bad actors, working very, very hard. new area of science when they start their lab. They kind of get there. the problem is they're all colleagues. And science is weird too, because unlike in UFC or something But those people are the heroes of science because they won't let something go to publication

1:27:36 And yeah. apple. And it happens all the time, all the time. It's just stunning when something like the amyloid undergraduate advisor, graduate advisor, and postdoc. We're all incredible people and scientists the silver lining in all this is like, I didn't have to please anybody. And so First of all, I think it's maybe just the way I'm wired. Everyone plays this nice, nice game because when you're nice to people, they think you get stuff.

1:31:20 because now people will really pick apart a figure, bullshit in there and they just went along with it. Whole companies were founded, investor money. Where are those companies? Where are those drugs? It's so sketchy. And, you know, and serum cholesterol, Like we know, and I think they were only paid like $50,000, which is kind of crazy because it Why was he doing that?

1:34:07 feel more important and can derive more sense I mean, Gell-Mann used to pick on Richard Feynman. that are really interesting and valid. and do more science. Well, it's also one of the things about something like that must be that if you go there and you It's not really their thing. rare occasion. I'm sure that they're doing special operators. You tell a pro

1:37:54 Their recovery times are faster. Their shooting accuracy is far better than your shooting not just his. Yeah, that's why people that have studied him and the whole case believe that, on your good side. why that show, it's a little outdated now, but from technology standpoint, but the wire was so Right. And those people, you know, and, but let's be honest,

1:40:40 That was kind of more accepted there because it's business and law. And I think the human side, actually, to your credit, I learned from you. I think you may or You know, Does he? there was a lot of celebrity endorsements is my point. It's, um, how should I say this? It's, I, if I had a super high powered psychiatric microscope, And people are boring.

1:43:55 Love that guy. But I started off that evening by saying, That would have cost me my job. university professors their jobs in the 60s and 70s What they're trying to do is create And what I love about what Michael Pollan is saying student who's pipetting in the lab to the highest tier of administration in the university, And he went out and did them, or at least some of them as, as a kind of late, the typical

1:48:01 way. Yeah, absolutely. And look, you deserve tremendous credit here. I know you're not one to sit here Now we're talking about the use of psychedelic medicine certified psychiatrist, neurologist running the studies with veteran solutions, the group down in youth, barely finished high school. And I did recreationally. I took LSD and psilocybin in high school, hung around with a wild bunch and we were just partying with it. I didn't know what I was doing. So my view of it was it was associated with a time in my life where I was pretty wayward.

1:50:34 Oh, I thought it was aspirin. because then it becomes confounded by, Wow. Amazing, right right at the appropriate So in any way, I've completely changed my stance on psychedelics. about running his laboratory Well, that's great. I'm glad you will. And I think it's a popular stance now. I don't think Maybe this could help my father. maybe this could help my mom maybe this could help my father maybe this could help my brother you know there's

1:54:27 entire Christian religion was initially based on psychedelic mushrooms and fertility rituals. And I just wealthy people poor people too. But it's like oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely and that works on some people, but not others. only studying drugs of abuse. Remember, it's NIDA, right? It's about drugs of abuse, addiction and No, but not that I know of, but they're always monitoring blood pressure and heart rates.

1:56:55 Yeah. I mean, people die trying to go cold turkey. view of an experience from his life. And he had agency. He could move himself differently within are coming back to Stanford That's what Robin tells me. So for that application. It doesn't affect my ability to have a conversation with someone. i really want to do it robin cardart harris again describes it as one of the more quote

2:01:03 That if they spend too much time in the room with the eye mask off, they don't do enough of the introspective. Yeah, I would imagine oh, you know, water is very benign, right? The prescriptive that comes out of the data, Yeah. these niche communities and water osmot reverse osmosis water which has no magnesium or calcium he said, obviously, and he's at the school of medicine, dude,

2:03:45 in biomedical research right now in terms of psychiatry, the hottest topic. Like, you're talking about this openly. How many people want to look Arnold Schwarzenegger, female body? Very few, very, very few. And yet that niche And the question for a really good scientist should be, is there value there? by stimulating the neuromuscular system, right?

2:05:56 as I think you do and other people do, might actually have tremendously positive effects. No one ran outside of PE class. This is the stuff that can make life better. be considered and talked about. That to me is what's exciting about podcasting and social media. a while for an episode, clear health benefits of cannabis. Maybe they haven't taken care of their own physical health, so they really shouldn't be distributing information.

2:09:13 There's so many different things that you have to do to be healthy, and it's too much work for most people. aren't paying attention to everything that we know today, well, they're not on the cusp. They're not are paying for. Unless he's really good. He, you know, he figured out how to make his practice popular. It's it's interesting that, you know, you're talking about people won't do the thing right now.

2:11:27 Amazing, right? It suppresses hunger by way of, And their stomach feels full, even though it's empty. A couple of people died of fen-fen, right? Fen-phen, gone. you don't have to be a chemist to just go, those look very similar. even though they're eating everybody's trying to get this stuff. It's being cut. and connective tissue. And my thought was, was that because they were losing weight? Because

2:14:34 Is there anything that's been done where they've examined people who have done weight training It's an awesome study. those people are like very staccato with their movements. thing. They are often in their treatment forbidden from doing these kinds of fidgeting things In people that move around, type two diabetes. it's a one-legged seated calf raise, right? With no weight. And they're just bouncing

2:17:51 It's likely that they're mimicking walking enough You're not, you're not saying this is all you need to do. If you were doing that, the animal studies tell us that it's signaling I found a couple recent articles that say some doctors are telling people with this, your muscle tissue. after three months on the drug. I know. But my concern is that semaglutide is seen as a magic bullet by some people and isn't always combined with exercise.

2:21:14 school or illiterate we are about our own health because people, so it is true that if you, Lane There's something about carbohydrates. sugar increase. But the other reason is your gut has neurons in it. Those neurons signal to the pathway shuts down that says, I need more. The moment you throw in a cookie after that steak, If you're doing a lot of weight training, depleting glycogen, et cetera.

2:23:48 Is that what you're doing? And he said, well, do fruit and honey in addition to that. Is there any evidence that rice is bad for you? I'm a glutton. I don't feel like that with rice. salads but i always make sure that i'm only putting olive oil and balsamic vinaigrette Yes, phthalates. that carbohydrates aren't going to disrupt your ability to burn fat,

2:27:23 As you said, you eat a big bowl of pasta, and it tends to make you feel kind of sedentary. Whereas when you just And, you know, this thing about meat was discovered because they noted that people that were very thin tend to move a lot. And they seem to like that. He has, he shows us amazing. And he sometimes puts up this post. I love these ones. I do see

2:30:09 is more regular and cops you kind of see it's a binary distribution they're either really fit It's a precursor for NAD+. extending lifespan in mice. And that there were already some data from yeast. There are now some clinical trials in humans. You can't just take NAD or you can, but it doesn't get into cells about whether or not NAD or NR are better.

2:32:31 Some people are giving NAD infusions out there. you know, random trial, Yeah, right. I was taking both for a while. When you say sublingually, are you taking it? Yeah, I have no relationship to Renew by Science. And NAC is still available despite it initially getting banned. It's either his company companies cannot sell it. Many supplement companies responded to that and said, okay,

2:35:54 that sublingual is the way to go as opposed to taking it in oral form and pills? Yeah. And that's tea you know well yeah those are all good and elements a good supplement knack is again, in these metabolic pathways for metabolic health. This isn't my area of expertise. I think they listen when things happen in large volume. this whole thing pan out because it's a market competition. Does NR have a shelf life? Like does NR, like if you like have a jar of that stuff from a year ago, is it still good?

2:39:29 NMN, a couple of things happen. First of all, energy, my recovery from workouts much better. shorter or longer yeah it's what how do you feel now is what's And that's a crazy dosage scheme. that they were working on for a while. you're talking about is 200 migs on one day and then coming back two weeks later is crazy, And all this ruling would do, frankly, is send people into gray market routes.

2:42:32 who's really good, of a lot of people. is going to cover all of that. mostly because I have colleagues who contact me and say like, hey, how do I get on testosterone? Do I need testosterone? Don't do it if you're that. But there's probably a great number of people that could benefit from I do that too. you know, you know, You can type it and just email it or email it five times, you know, and see what happens.

2:45:40 My pleasure. I've got PDFs of like deliberate heat exposure protocols, deliberate cold exposure. You don't I'm so glad you provide that.