Joe Rogan Experience #1968 — Jason Everman Transcript

Transcript

0:00 the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day It's like, oh, I'm going to be... like there was bands like Mudhoney and Soundgarden that were better known than Nirvana was at the time. live take some of the guitar playing responsibility off him so he could concentrate on vocals like that kind of thing and initially like i thought i was going to be able to

2:40 And I became more and more unhappy with the situation and then ended up leaving. very accomplished musician in his own right would throw some ideas out and um i was planning on going trekking in the himalayas like And then you did. Right, of course. And what I did was ended up moving to New York. young guy trying to figure out life yeah i mean like the sound garden thing

7:37 butthole surfers like that level you know and um but it was more like, I just love that band and I love playing with them and like having that taken away. Yeah. It really, it fucked me up for a bit. And they both, and that's one thing is like an adult, like looking back, you can kind of, Right. Oh, I'm a firm believer that growth is the result of trauma.

10:33 and then you know hopefully you step up and grow from it you know learn from it all that stuff so pick me up at JFK and drive me into the city. I still remember this. is here we go that's an adventure yeah wow so you're there for a few years living that life and how do you for, like, the first year after getting fired from Soundgarden. And so I get a call from Matt Sweeney,

13:48 to this day it was the funnest tour I'd ever done and I think that was because And so how do you go from that to... that once in a while I'll listen to it and go, stuff and this is kind of more like soul asylum like indie rock which is great kind of interesting foray into a genre No. He produced the record. And he was like a student of American music or music in general and he got his knowledge

17:28 before, but it's just kind of like, I would still get excited about it. It's like, dude, was a couple times where i got to the point where the the joy was like fully extracted from the gonna replace our one of our guitar players and our drummer it's like okay you're in so now we're looking for a drummer so i went and poached uh my friend sean back home

20:46 So band house, five of us living in this house. Do you know Johnny Z? No. So John managed some pretty big bands, like he managed Anthrax, Suicidal Tendencies, a ministry, I think. that I thought were better, at least, fire it doesn't matter if it's a dumb name it just gets accepted so that it's not that big a deal It's September of 90, You know, the heat has kind of left, like, New York State.

24:55 Hey, like the band's literally homeless like we're gonna live at the studio but it's like okay what And like, we're, you know, at least I won't speak for everyone, but I was in a daze. then like that's not how i normally ate during But during that period, that's what I was eating. So I was watching bad daytime television. that was much better but um so during that week Johnny Z our manager who personally I didn't really like him that much you know he was kind of easily

28:47 okay i'm there he got us um studio time at bad animal studio in seattle which is heart's old record and up you haul with all our stuff and like drove cross country by myself, which was like a super fun road trip. on tinfoil and then went into IV use and like I honestly enjoyed it but it never post-orgasmic bliss where you're weightless and everything feels wonderful it's like that

32:20 um there's a couple of the songs on that record that in a different life would have been on the next You know, and I'm a little kid, so I'm intrigued by it. you know, a year or whatever. attach them to a Marine platoon, infantry platoon. And like, you're the medic. And so he did like Like, I've always had a taste for, like, high adventure, like, as a child.

36:19 like Johnny Quest was the big one, right? but i want to do that you know so that was kind of the initial impetus for like and then growing and my mom would drive me up river like like 10 miles or 15 miles or whatever in our volkswagen jail but yeah definitely be discouraged um so that's background for the high adventure thing, the military thing. I guess as soon as I figured out what life authorship was or the concept, even though I may have not have known the term, yeah, I kind of endeavored to actively author my own life.

40:45 I read one of them when I was the soft experience that seemed intriguing to me. So I go to the neighbor recruiter and I'm like, Hey, I want to, Military Occupational Special specialty, your job. And the Navy doesn't even call it MOS. I think they call it rate or something like taking the pt test basically and so i didn't know really anything about the military but i knew enough or i suspected

43:07 So that's kind of your entry-level soft unit in the U.S. military is Ranger Regiment. and part um it was it was a necessary step for the progression. And, but, you know, sucked it up, went through it. After what they call AIT, like advanced I was running. i gravitated towards so and you know i did a lot of physical outside stuff like my whole life you

46:53 but like right behind me were like all the dudes who were like getting put on the truck like you're Yeah. And I think even then I kind of got it. Yeah. So I had a break in service for a couple of years. came back to Washington basically when my when my mother died and so I was kind of like dealing with with her and her stuff and it was like there's a local

50:21 College has nothing for me, but I wanted to hang out with my friends, like the dudes I skateboarded with and played music with and stuff. And so they were all going to take their SATs at the local community college, it's probably just like making designs on the paper or something like So what was your idea, like, doing that, taking astronomy classes, going to college?

52:19 It was a gut feeling. and a half so it was the first day of language school which was six months long was 9-11 yeah what was it And, like, everyone was like, yeah. I'm in language school for another six months. some access or whatever so do a couple j sets in asia and then uh get ready to go to iraq uh to just like crush everything in its path. So what happened when you were over there?

56:46 It was a different animal. I think I'm pretty good at just with rolling with stuff, I mean, Like, you got your dudes, you know, your, your, your team, But going on target, closing with, destroying the enemy, Yeah. But like every species in nature is adversarial. Yeah. And like, have you read like that Sebastian Younger book, Tribe? Yeah. Great book. Yeah. So it rings true to me. And like, have you read like that Sebastian Younger book?

1:02:11 Dunbar's number. and it extends out it actually extends even further than 120 or 150 it gets to like people like soft you're dealing with smaller teams, smaller numbers. Like, our mission statement is biological organisms, you know, Like that's definitely the salt in the soup for sure. So I think that kind of organized conflict, I think that's, and to me, that's always what's been, I think, the most interesting paradox about war and combat is it's this event, this human event, that simultaneously brings about acts of pure selfless love and brutality without quarter in the same instant.

1:06:44 And in some way that becomes more satisfying than any other way to live. Um, so I can think of instances where I've had these flashes of awareness, like, They were like, okay, man, let's go. of geraldo rivera who was on fox news spinning this in some sort of a way but realizing how military had in it. But in this particular instance, you're living in the era

1:10:23 was doing that and they had to say, well, we have to come up with some sort of an excuse um but it's also for sure yeah aiding in the profit of selling heroin. I don't know. Yeah, was coming from Afghanistan. Yeah, it wasn't like another poppy field. So, I mean, I think when you get closer to the the built-up areas and at least at the time I mean I mean, you're over there sort of helping.

1:13:53 I mean I think I was conscious of that and then would just you know do it you know did anybody talk about it over there yeah i think um you know that it's everything's geared towards like blood relations and things like that and like And, like, the first thing he asks is, like, The houses down there, each house, each family unit house is a miniature fortress.

1:16:35 How bizarre was that, though, to go over there really yeah in afghanistan yeah really oh yeah there was a, I never got to this town, but up on the Oxus River, there's been several attempts over the decades to do an archaeological excavation of the entire city. and all over Persia and Asia Minor. And the Greco-Bactrian Empire, if you want to call it that,

1:19:14 So there it is. Mm-hmm. was the city on the oxus wow yeah wow so they had an amphitheater yeah it was a full-on greek city But that's up north in Kunduz What a bummer There was one, one of the Greco-Bactrian kings, Menander, actually converted to Buddhism. You look at it stylistically and it's like, that's Greek, but it's a Buddha. You know, you look at it stylistically and it's like,

1:21:54 Are those all gone? Look at that. Yeah. Like I went to the old citadel outside of Kandahar where right now now when you're on the ground it doesn't look like anything but if you go to like Google Earth you can see the old outline of the city you can make the analogy of they're like the Basque in Spain, Oh, wow. Like, White River rafting down the Kunar River.

1:24:53 I had no idea this stuff was there. You're not going to westernize it. to hold on to Bagram and maintain a strike force there to put out fires so the, Yeah. just the, the, the way it controlled, areas are controlled by warlords. It's exhausting. that there was no way out of this? And that didn't happen. years of living that way the idea that we're going to go in there with tanks and fix it.

1:30:12 Was there a time when you were over there, like towards the end of your time there, I did like four rotations so I I left the Army the second time like 2007 when I was basically went back to school. No, I'm guessing. I don't have the answer to that. They're more resilient human beings. It wasn't like we're sitting around waiting to be attacked. Yeah, so I was at another Crossroads, and it was like, I can reenlist, or I can go to university.

1:34:29 but maybe the more comfortable route, which would have been Seattle U. Yeah. So I basically had to do three years there to finish my undergrad. Yeah. It was almost up there with like the sound garden personal crisis um and So I found a used copy and took it with me down and read it and so it's it's the story i his solo circumnavigation, um, took him five years. Uh, along the way he met this woman, Patty,

1:38:59 that interesting or whatever right um so yeah i'm super cynical like that marriage didn't last whatever so but then i like American history. And so Robin essentially missed all that and he gets back to the States Like 30 minutes later I get an email. It's like, yeah, And I've worked on boats in Alaska and actually come from kind of a nautical family on my father's side.

1:42:18 look at the the year and the design and everything so it was a 1986 jean-naud sunrise 34 sloop and like all these people like yeah it's nope my folks did that for a while when they retired. Um, my mom and and there's something like really, like when you actually get out on the water and you've got the sails up and you're on a good tack and the boat's doing its thing,

1:45:27 the the ensigns they put them on sailboats to to teach them to be sailors you know like on that and hopefully just have a good foundation i mean that's one thing that was like unique about And usually in a way that's not pleasant. And then you look back and go, wow, what, what would have happened if not for that moment or if not for that experience so did you decide not to circumnavigate the globe um i mean that's like a huge endeavor

1:49:18 I would also imagine you would meet some very fascinating people that are also doing that. and things like that. so before you could only go up the inside passage, have to anchor up somewhere and just wait for the tide to change so there's those challenges but It's pitch black outside. So right now everything's going okay. And then I got a buddy from the Seattle Rock Days, Barrett Martin, who was the drummer for the Screaming Trees.

1:53:11 and then he's bringing in various musicians of your time to that? Yeah. Like, like, uh, as much free time as I can. I love getting out on the boat, So remember when I was talking about, uh, Koala Macrame. avoided it subconsciously yeah a lot of people do yeah yeah a lot of people with traumatic I bet you would. It's a strange experience. You know, like you think about what's happened to you and you learn from that and, you know,

1:56:37 you're kind of fulfilling your mission as an organism. And I think that's very accurate. But you know, some people, their demons don't ones. I'm so much more charitable with people and their behavior and their attitudes because of that are kind to each other and get along together and it's like so you you realize like there's because I was recognizing, like, the way kids, like,

2:00:16 oh, my God, I know where you got that from. I know women that forgot to have kids. Like, oh, Debbie's happy. Some of the biggest messes of a life that I know are people that on paper are winners and they're not. And then you go, oh, this is so temporary, and I'm not enjoying this process at all. I mean, Bill's right about to have a fucking heart attack.

2:04:36 For sure. Like a huge like giving up like doing things that like I thought that other people would think was cool, you know? out like like that internal validation was meant everything to me and the external was just it was Yeah. It's like I'm definitely fighting my battles still. But the – what was the other point? Yeah. very careful about that because i know so many people that have been involved in friendships and relationships with people that are just disastrous.

2:08:58 it's an educational experience for everybody involved. these conversations like we're having right now, where I get to, uh, you know, I just met you I've used it too many times probably, And through that, you get an understanding of yourself that's really not available to someone who doesn't go through struggle. lot of people today and why they're medicated is that they're not experiencing

2:11:33 a lot of the i mean there's what without a doubt there's clinical depression there's people that some sort of chemical intervention to straighten out my head. And that's not always the case. in your mind of what you want to do you have to have ethics and morals you have to have compassion being you know endeavoring to be the best that you can be whatever that is

2:14:56 i think they also don't have the tools like they never like you got to think about like your life So now you have a mortgage, and you have a family. That external validation that you get from driving a Mercedes, that thing that you get from having a nice house where people drive by and go, look at that guy's house. at her, look at them. Wow, on commercials and you know we don't realize that that's this is not going to bring you the joy that you're looking for.

2:17:45 Confiscated his yachts and he's got this one yacht. That's fucking insane. They confiscated another he's got the second yacht That's just as preposterous maybe even more so that That's it. like an alien he he's just he's just like these bones and tissue and fat and he's with this woman that thing that's gotten you all those accolades, And that's the path that so many people are on.

2:20:47 It's fucking weird. Money's freedom. things that make you happy yeah but you have to know what it is and it's not being taught And they can talk about things. Or it sucks depending on where you are and what you're stuck in. They figure their way out of that. And they're like, hey, you play on a couple of songs. happened with sound garden like someone close to the band said hey there's these Soundgarden box sets that are out and you play on a couple of songs like you probably owed some money and

2:24:40 component of who i am but it was definitely necessary steps on on this journey and And for so many of them, they're only happy when they're on top. financial security the trap of fame. approaching you in a very If you have a conversation with someone at dinner, what do you do? when I did have that taken away, Yeah. Yeah. um i think the first podcast i listened to you was the one you did with james from metallica

2:28:19 he's been my friend for like 30 years. And since he's such a Metallica fan, he speaks to those people. It's so hilarious because he's in his element, and he's also a brilliant comedian and just such a character. nautiloid.com super nautiloid yeah one word so super so it's a play on black sabbath super not Okay, so superknotaloid.com. who he's a professional.

2:31:01 you know, And I was like, ah, maybe I should write a book, you know? been in that world too with the literary world, like the business side of it, and with that in the music world. proposal and I thought it was decent you know um gave it to him and then got another meeting with And so basically I got accepted to grad school Like, nope, done. You know, it's like the scorpion and the frog, right?

2:34:36 Thank you very much. like that you can tell people about just that just that and i created the site myself it's Yeah, my favorite Sabbath record. Appreciate it. Bye.