Joe Rogan Experience #1979 — Dr. Aseem Malhotra Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm a consultant cardiologist. Well, it's interesting. So what was driving that? What was the role of cholesterol in heart disease, overprescription of statin, saturated fat? was biased and corrupted information that was coming from two big industries, Where they were basically given about $50,000, which is not that much money, to ruin everyone's idea of what's good and bad for you.

4:14 and sugar etc is you know in the in the sort of 50s 60s and 70s there were two scientists who And for decades, we were under this false belief that it was saturated fat that was a big culprit in heart disease. And the other thing to add into this, which wasn't fully accepted or known at the time, was the now acknowledgement of the impact of smoking.

6:05 harmful confusing the public denial and even buying the loyalty of bent scientists so when thrown in. So once I kind of, as a practicing cardiologist, as a regular frontline jobbing When you did this and you started to talk about diet and health and the misconceptions is imagine front page of three British that means cholesterol isn't that important. And if cholesterol isn't that important,

9:25 And this was also part of my clinical experience as a cardiologist. I was seeing about 20%. Is that why they were underreported? is until then, is a lot of the clinical trials that are conducted that drive guidelines, Well, so what they do is very interesting. So they use this broad umbrella term noncompliance. 75% of them will stop taking it and when you ask them why 62% of those 75% that stopped taking it

13:13 prevent heart attacks. And what that would have meant in reality, Joe, if it was taken up, And in his article, he basically said, listen, if you're low risk of heart disease, I'm going to come on to that story later because it's really interesting. I think is probably more accurate. most likely. at Imperial College, who is a very big proponent of statins. And I'm about to go on air and he basically, he meets me there and he's like, he's almost frothing in the mouth. He's really angry.

16:00 people and he kind of calmed down we went on air and the discussion really focused on the fact that, you know, this cardiologist here is saying it's okay to have So I kind of, you know, I didn't know what was coming the very next day in my hospital, So I get a phone call from the secretary of the medical director, you represent a hospital and this kind of stuff. And I said, well, the medical director wants to

17:58 And he doesn't. cardiac patients that they can eat butter now it it sounds ridiculous, Joe, now, right? But he was Right. about butter and saturated fat. And in fact, there was a front page. I don't remember this time The statin industry or the cholesterol-lowering industry, I mean, it's a trillion-dollar industry. take the pill anyway. So I said, this is about ethics and evidence-based medicine. So I kept

21:38 I was quoted another article. They don't have to give you a specific thing that you violated or... You know, the pharma companies are very powerful and someone will just need one phone call to the CEO and they'll say, shut this guy up. So I broke down the data, and I've published a lot on this stuff, to look at it properly. cholesterol is genetic. 80% of cholesterol is genetic. 80%? 80%. Because cholesterol is a

24:40 But what's interesting about that is almost all of those people Another interesting caveat, was very weak, was William Castelli, who's one of the co-directors of Framingham, cardiologist, much around 300 milligrams per deciliter. It has no value in isolation in predicting heart disease. And only in 2019, more recently, It was BS. The whole thing was BS in that sense. Like, it's very weak, if anything.

27:45 as I said before, your risk is, you know, the benefits are about 1% if you're low risk of heart doc, shall I carry on the statin or be put on the statin or I'm getting side effects? I say to him, And 1 in 39 in preventing a further heart attack. medicine. If you take a statin for five years, having had a heart attack, in that five-year Four days. and low risk people of heart disease over 12 years, was there a difference in, was there

30:58 just within a few years, mainly because of side effects. So I lost that job in that hospital. So I was working for free in one hospital for a year He got his knighthood from the Queen And she said straight away, no, I'm not going to retract it, And I get a phone call from the Guardian and the BBC, scientist that lost his license because he linked the MMR vaccine to autism, right? So they were

33:56 and this is, to be honest, Then your credibility is undermined pretty much forever. Because John Abramson went through a lot during that period as well. no, you know what? This is about ethical evidence-based medical practice. There were some corrections that needed to be done, some caveats that they added in to the papers around question, yes, there was a lot of backlash. It was tough. There was a bit smearing going on.

36:38 So grow a rhinoceros hide. and the conflicts of interest. quoted in the Guardian saying only problematic side effects from statins affect one in 10,000 people. So I thought this is something, this doesn't add up. I think a guy called John Ngo Thomas, great guy. So they published this piece in The Lancet in 2016 product. And on their website, they, oh, the genetic test, the co-inventor of this genetic

39:29 device? And it was something in the order of the university had received 300,000 pounds, And ultimately, at the root of the problem, Joe, is that these big, powerful pharmaceutical companies, these corporations have more and more control and unchecked power over these institutions. They feel they've been deceived. that general practitioners should be financially incentivized to prescribe statins for people at low risk of heart disease,

41:27 And they said, no, we're not going to accept this. And they had to make a U-turn. push again to get more people on statins. And I suspect a lot of it is because, you know, if you So that's their business model, Joe. often doesn't involve informed consent. And when you tell people the full benefits and harms in Yes, that's absolutely true. And I'm a believer in true democracy.

45:00 like John Ioannidis, who you may be familiar with. So he's a professor of medicine at Stanford. He's the most cited medical researcher in the world. You know, he's considered a medical Their overall goal is making exorbitant amounts of money. They have a responsibility to their shareholders. They have a responsibility to the corporation. And that responsibility is to make more money. to do that, including compromising physicians, compromising researchers, compromising journals,

47:03 So, yes yes legal responsibility to But he seemed like a nice guy, right? But in their roles, they are only responsible to their in most cases, with the bathwater here to the next one, right? So there's huge waste. Only 11% of them were found to be truly innovative, And you know, one of the reasons it's hard to swallow? There's something sociocultural which we don't talk enough about. So a lot of people believe in medicine and think it's an exact science, but it's not an exact science. It's an applied science. It's a science of human beings. It's a social science. It's a constantly evolving science.

51:09 You know, that person suffered unnecessarily. we now see that in the world. So that's for me, that's what drives me. Dr. Robert Hare talks about psychopathic is something called the psychopathic determinants doctors who agree with me privately, but say, I wouldn't say that. efficacy of the vaccine, because we know traditionally vaccines for Yeah. So, so I know that now, but at the time, you know, I hadn't focused my attention specifically

55:45 In fact, to the point where, you know, I was getting pretty mad that there wasn't enough coverage on this. quite bad at the beginning. So I noticed this link with obesity and I said, listen, you know, you know, really just optimize your immune system. And it wasn't happening. only surviving immediate family member and he had this and he was kind of seeing me need to take the

58:09 Bend It Like Beckham. and it was stuff saying like, And I said, you know, I think you're high risk. And the next thing, I'm on Good Morning Britain in February 2021, At a time, Joe, when we were only in the UK, at that point, there was only the recommendation like every day. You know, I don't feel good if I haven't gone to the gym and done something,

1:01:00 lots of different criteria. is my energy levels were, from the vaccine that's injected into the arm gets distributed throughout the body and can be there for up to four months. which we'll talk about later, trial by independent researchers published in Journal of Vaccine, in the clinical trial itself, your heart rate was there anything with your immune system no, I didn't show I had two doses. I didn't get any

1:04:05 yeah, I, you know, I'm having a thought of just, you know, going and, um, jumping in front of a if you're a good doctor, 80% of your diagnosis comes from the history. If you listen to your It didn't sound like an over massive heart attack, You need an EKG to see whether this is an acute heart attack, but you need an ECG. But he said, listen, I'll call him.

1:06:27 I call him back, you know, because I was And she says, Asim, your And if you are going to have a cardiac arrest, You've got probably more than a 50% chance of surviving. very fit 73 year old, you know, he would out, I mean, I consider myself quite athletic, It was a big news story in The Guardian. And she was crying. She was a nurse, senior nurse, and she knew my dad and said, it seems

1:09:59 somebody would have taken him there even if he had a cardiac arrest en route they would have been But just before I published it, I contacted a cardiologist who I consider to be one of the ambulance this is before my dad had his cardiac arrest because she knew it wasn't going to get right? Because by this stage, I wasn't working in the NHS. I was only doing private care.

1:12:27 But it still bugged me. there was no cardiac history I don't know if you've ever played it, And I was like, my God, badminton, right? He was that fit. So it didn't make any sense. So severe narrowings and I'm just, And I read this abstract, and I'm like, wow. close to increasing my risk that much in two months now it's one bit of data and of course

1:15:49 for populations of people who may not know they've got a little bit of mild furring that isn't going to cause them a problem for 20 years, suddenly you're going to get an increase in heart He says, this research group had accidentally found with the use of coronary imaging techniques, It's called GB News. We've got this evidence from circulation. gets up in Parliament and says,

1:18:14 I thought, this is odd. I said, this should be an individual choice now. we shouldn't mandate this. more stress on the system and has been for a long time without any more resources. We've got an I've worked with people in very senior positions in the health service, in health policy. and my closest family are in California Dr. Malhotra, we've received a number of anonymous

1:20:51 And he listened for two hours. If you remember, Joe, Rochelle Walensky, That she was referring to Joe was almost verbatim, Right? And that's what it showed. So we're kind of silent about it. through mainstream media and said, campaigning and we got it overturned. Wow. And, you know, for me, one of the most satisfying even before they decided they were going to, you know, and even after they overturned this mandate decision for healthcare workers,

1:24:04 but coming through so-called credible voices. kind of narrative that was coming out was essentially the narrative of the drug companies, of became good at this as I've got it into the mainstream news, whether it's about, you know, Asim, just forget it. And she was very open, right? And she was very pro-vax actually at the time. She was a bit shocked with what I was

1:25:54 with this narrative. benefits and what are the harms? My dad's story was included in that. And then the part two was how we got it wrong, why we got it wrong, editorial board, but they said, listen, you know, we'll let you do one as a one-off. But the peer Not just promoted, it coerced mandates. caveats drug industry sponsored all that stuff right but still the what we call the highest

1:29:11 vaccine, hospitalization, disability, life-changing event, than you were to be hospitalized with COVID. can happen several months after um yeah it's it's just it's just, it's beggars belief. And, uh, and that, you know, I, I published this versus per million people unvaccinated by age group. lower age groups, 30, 87,600, for example. If you're 20 to 29, well over 100,000 people.

1:31:39 But the thing is, this is what we call non-randomized data. But when you balance that against the harms, which are consistent of at least one in 800 after two doses, and there is some evidence that the more doses you have, the higher those harms become. 1976, swine flu vaccine was pulled because it was found to cause This is at least one in 800. enlightened or is awake

1:33:39 prestige and fragile egos. So we've got to deal with that, right? And we can see this happening, you know, and then we have to deal with the fallout of it. Right? And that's what they wanted. being hospitalized with COVID was 50%, one in two, when the real figure at that time was about Yeah, massive difference. So again, that reinforces. Thatces not the way it was described no not at all but those so those figures are important

1:37:07 because in this extraordinary time, there's options available like this podcast, But it's billions. Because the prophets have been extraordinary. than harm. I think that there's a good case to be made there. Okay. So is this all vulnerable people, I think that becomes irrelevant when you've got a serious adverse event rate, which is so high normally wouldn't irrespective even if the benefits outweigh the harms and also what about

1:40:05 Does that make sense? this vaccine with no liability. They didn't have to worry at all about being sued for adverse side effects. And they essentially silenced any talk of any sort of alternative treatment. Right. regulators and stuff. So in effect, it's still pretty bad. You know, the clinical decision the way we've got here in some ways was predictable because of that unchecked power.

1:43:14 and people like yourself, confident in the information they're getting even doctors is likely to be clean or as clean as possible and closer to the truth when it comes to knowing the absolute benefits and harms of Thankfully, it gives no benefit. And then they lack the critical appraisal skills Culturally, you know, people need to understand that good health in general doesn't come out of a medicine bottle.

1:46:53 is that if you are a mother of a disabled child, the chronic stress associated with that I think these things are important to discuss, Joe, as well, according to Margaret Chan, the former director, They have this great definition of health, wages. You know, if you're in a low pay, high demand, low control job, the impact on your health So my work has been traditionally in looking at how we combat chronic disease through lifestyle.

1:49:59 are doctors there that are producing protocols that seem to be working observationally, whether it's vitamin because a lot of these people, you know, these patients are being gaslighted still by their Why do you think at this point there's still such an incredible reluctance to blame anything on the vaccine? In fact, they actively And these anecdotal stories of people

1:53:11 is that many of these doctors and many people themselves, It's a lot to take in, Joe. I'm not talking about medical health professionals. I'm talking about journalists. I'm talking about people in the public eye. I'm talking about influencers and celebrities that country, it's a very separated in terms of ideological inclinations. You have your Republicans

1:56:37 it became a tribal identity signifier. It was a signal that you were sending out to other people that you were on the right an easy thing for people to do. It's the right thing to do. It's about living virtuously as I think this issue would probably end overnight. who had suffered at the hands of Harvey Weinstein, speaking the truth and and sort of letting go of the outcome because it's the right thing to do but

1:59:54 been either ignored or dismissed by their physician, how they've sought other doctors out, Joe, is a chap called Jay Naidoo. Now, Jay was a trade union leader. He was considered as the chief And this is a guy at the age of 36 who thought he was going to be killed, industry that is so huge. There's so much money involved in this. And there's so many people,

2:02:31 I don't fully understand it, to be perfectly honest with you. But I think what's going to Because that's what they've done with other drugs in the past. You know, I was involved in a case i don't think it would have got the attention it needed and ultimately the regulator got involved They just removed it one day from the website of the, you know, of this being quality marker of

2:05:25 kind of heard there was a few cases about rare blood clots or whatever, right? Reporting the journalists over there who know me and see me as a credible voice in lots of areas, whether it's, I didn't know. India who is involved in the rollout of the COVID vaccine. I wouldn't agree with what he said. And the accusation from this young activist he said it completely turned the judge you could see that he turned his eyes lit up and he was like

2:08:48 They are deliberately suppressing information. How did he expose everything that we're doing was wrong? but it was a few months ago, section in the Guardian initially, and even the Times newspaper that did something similar, That's what people really want. where I don't remember what organization put it up, but they, it might've been a news It was thousands and thousands and thousands of comments.

2:11:42 you about these injuries. And then they tell you about the struggles of getting people to connect them to the vaccine. They talk about how they've tried And on this vaccine issue, Joe, But coming back to the basics of what we learn in medicine, 80% of your diagnosis comes from the history. right? Just from this survey where people knew of somebody or that maybe had an injury who died.

2:13:57 it could be that high we need to have these discussions if and also if there's such a from this corporate tyranny. This is what we need to be teaching It's only going to get worse. It isn't even about being virtuous or courageous. For me, it's about being rational. ignore the fact that, you know, they are essentially slaves to corporate tyrannical and often psychopathic entities until that as long

2:17:31 The question is, what's causing it? certainly more vulnerable people. And I think there is definitely a role to be played there, cardiac arrest, et cetera. But then what's driving the increase in cardiac arrest, which we've seen, right? He did a recent article online and his estimates in the UK, and you can extrapolate this around the world if you like, in terms of the excess deaths that have occurred since, say, 2021,

2:20:07 2020. And that was in the region of something like 14 to 20% increase, which was, you know, which is interesting, and I can explain that, is there hasn't been any significant increase in baseline health. The same people are vulnerable to COVID. A lot of the excess deaths are still And Sweden's baseline health is a lot healthier. You know, they are a lot of Scandinavian countries,

2:22:49 Whereas in the Scandinavian countries, Absolutely. in the first place? It's all very complex. Yeah. I mean, so again, that goes to like, educated to make noise and to educate each other about what's going on. But, you know, if you take the issue of sugar, for example, Joe, That was it. It resulted because of that media attention and the dissemination of that information that sugar was harmful and

2:26:58 But the impact of these public health interventions, Joe, are huge. As in, say you're smoking now and I'm inhaling your fumes. Oh, secondhand smoking. Secondhand out-of-hospital cardiac arrests after the smoking ban. So these are the important interventions like public health. So, you know, we need to think in these terms. So average age was 40 of death or whatever, 1850. And now it's what, 79.

2:29:36 You know, most of what determines your health happens outside the doctor's consultation room. I know you may have your own opinions on him. And the way we are managing chronic disease, which is the big problem in American health care, your diabetes, your high blood pressure, heart disease, all that kind of stuff, cancers, is with pills that have very marginal effects of benefit, come with side effects, don't improve the quality of your

2:31:22 of stuff we discussed about how we got it wrong about saturated fat And he realized it was, you know, low fat diet, Not many people know. Like, what's going on here? they're healthy, long life and a healthy life. disease as being a type 2 diabetic or being a smoker or having high blood pressure. But it's And we said, you know what, we don't want this to be influenced by any entity that isn't going to be open to telling the full truth about lifestyle,

2:34:25 as like, probably looked as what most obese politicians you will see. And about a year power of the truth. And now we've now decided because of all of this mess we're in, this bubble because we want to be free of commercial influence, Are there any alternatives, about half a million dollars First Do No Farm P That's very catchy. In the last two decades, Big Pharma has been fined tens of billions of dollars.

2:37:54 accountable so that they would need to think of the risk of imprisonment when The real story is that during the first year of the pandemic, Joe, and in fact, Israel looked at this, a few million people. called troponin. Troponin also goes up when you have a heart attack. It's used to diagnose heart So there was a massive over-diagnosis of myocarditis that wasn't myocarditis, and that

2:41:09 So it's something I have an interest in and I know about are admitted to hospital doesn't, isn't the same as viral myocarditis, which traditionally can, with the vaccine, inflammation of the heart muscle, There's no data saying it's going to protect you from COVID myocarditis. One is how common is COVID myocarditis? it was against the narrative, but that natural immunity was several times better at protecting

2:45:01 chance on something that I didn't take in the first place because the vaccine that I was supposed to, let me tell you my story. The UFC had allocated a You'd be tested again when you got there. And we would do these at the Apex Center, which is a very small arena the UFC has constructed that they do some of their smaller events at. I got to go back to Texas. But there there's another event coming up in the future.

2:47:16 They knew it was going to cause these problems. So I started getting nervous. I started getting, And, oh my God, you're positive. And then she got tested again. I'm like, what is this? I was not committed one way or the other. And I was like, man, this seems like a cult. He took horse dewormer. What's the best way to shame him? Let's point to this one thing that he took and mock this person

2:50:38 The second day, I felt pretty good. This is supposedly in the summer that this was happening. Kennedy's book, The Real Anthony Fauci, commentator. How am I having these, how am I on CNN all the time? And all they're doing is mocking There was none of that. a whole deal, giant sign. They didn't understand that this podcast is 10 times larger than them.

2:54:16 looked at all the data and it said, I think we're being lied to. corporations exert their power. And part of that obviously is the political environment. And that's philanthropic organizations like Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, people that were hearing it. And, um, and I also, because I've been in this space as an activist for a long time with the whole

2:56:43 your intuition ultimately is what led you to and the illusion of knowledge. call the Stephen Hawking in medicine John Ioannidis if we start from this position of in 2015, you know, just to highlight all these, the symptoms that, you know, we are suffering at he said from this discussion, By this stage, with the Statins saga and other things that were going on,

2:59:56 the fact that um they've made so much money out of something that it's so poorly efficacious yet conversations and even continuing And he was vaccinated. My website is just drasim.com. Very credible people.