Joe Rogan Experience #1980 — Michio Kaku Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! to become aliens. We'll talk about that too. Please. So first of all, if you could just tell Instead of computing on transistors, we're computing on atoms. Medicine is going to be turned upside down. But some computers, some quantum computers, It's very difficult for us. Well, to imagine how it's going to change the world, think of the progression of the computer.

3:51 And then we went into the second era much it would change life as we know it, that's when things get difficult to understand, right? a quantum computer. It analyzes whether or not germs can be destroyed by this substance at the speed of light. like regenerating limbs or regrowing spinal tissue for a person who's been paralyzed, and then we can begin perhaps to slow down the aging process,

7:18 When you think about that, just to describe that complexity that you just described, and here we are talking about this on a podcast. So yeah, we're talking And we think that is Einstein's theory that eluded him for the last 30 years of his life. The desk was open and unfinished. we have the theory. It's called string theory. There have been TV documentaries on the subject,

11:20 Maybe we're just too dumb to know what that means. and I decided to build an atom smasher, In high school, right. as a theoretical physicist. What were you able to do and that began my career. That began my career as a theoretical physicist. So, like, compare that to, like, you can't even go near one of those scanners, those MRI machines, right? So my machine is comparable to the machines that you see in the hospital today.

13:39 You see on the left, you can see that's 22 miles of copper wire. 2.3 million electron volt generator of electrons. Wow. How old were you at the time? designs for this? Oh, well, these designs come from an x-ray machine done by Donald Kirst, I had to do the equations to calculate how many turns of wire, how many gauss. There was no Internet at all. So luckily, there were other physicists in the area because they work for varying associates

17:26 ground zero for Silicon Valley. It's such a fascinating image of seeing this one super ChatGPT, which is this fascinating AI program that essentially scours the entire internet for Basically, plagiarism using digital computers. things. If you're a high school kid, you could write all sorts of science fiction scenarios, They just gather information so they could be gamed.

20:32 what's happening in the world. It can give you an incorrect understanding of politics, of economics. of information that's very flawed, that can't discern and can't think. I do this. I have this Now, I'm a scientist. Right. to make sure that they're all correct. teenagers ranting and raving about all sorts of garbage and put that in with articles that

23:30 How does the chatbot decide? If there are gradations of what is true, like it is partially true or whatever, it could inside some of these articles that were spliced into what was proposed. With a quantum computer, Have you even paid attention to how Twitter is doing it now where they have community notes? very well-read people on specific subjects will chime in with peer-reviewed papers and all these different statistics that show. And then Twitter will correct it. And it will say,

25:56 Right. rebuttals to things that are just outrageous. We'll be able to – I think that would change just human perception across the world, just the way we view each other. that's really an argument against censorship on the internet, which is another problem that people If we think about what quantum computing is going to be capable of, that's the kind of stuff we're thinking about.

29:26 which allows you to break the Einstein barrier and go faster than the speed of light. ago, to where we are now. And then you imagine the invention of quantum computing. You imagine But the multiverse idea comes from quantum physics. Electrons can be two places at the same time. multiple places at the same time. Do you think this understanding of this and this race towards

32:23 accomplished. Like, for example, we mentioned aliens that would be the answer like there there's probably a shepherding there's probably some and substances and properties of materials, These are diseases at the molecular level. toward what we physicists call a type one civilization, a civilization which has the power They harness the power of the sun.

36:16 Yeah. a type 1 civilization emerging right before our eyes. But with that is the power to self-destroy cultural habits, and whatever. But globally, they settle differences on a global scale. So we're seeing the groundwork being laid today. That's right. doing this it's it's really like an unheralded spectacular art form and they're his body is insane I mean it really is like an incredible form of athletics

40:40 super high-level acrobatics immediately it has the potential of going global. Are you a hip-hop fan? this is weird, because This is a Nas song, You definitely have to get used to it. I was waiting for that part. that Drake's label I mean, that's kind of crazy. And there's some videos of him now where his wife had him at a birthday party. We're all going to be digitized.

44:24 Someone's going to digitize him. All his speeches, his writings, his going to be digitized. I mean, I would love to talk to Einstein. Someone's going to digitize him. Have you ever had some problems in your life They cloned them so that they appear to be like us. are indistinguishable from other humans. But yeah, they could live among us and we'd never know.

47:14 So it's so... There's a reptilian overlord nation that's controlling the world. infinite energy through fusion by being able to correct the problems of fusion plants, Right. simply cobble together existing essays written by a human. time they become as intelligent as a monkey, then at that point we have to worry. That's the point where we begin to worry about self-awareness, about sentient beings, because then monkeys know

50:28 And so they obey us. That's right. One dog killed a monkey, Really crazy. They're thinking, right? You cannot teach your dog the meaning of tomorrow. And would it sneak up on us? the digital life form that's the superior, continue to push it to the end of time. And I would just sit back and let these knuckleheads We have some ideas and our ability to understand this gets better over time, but that's where

55:10 and where we fit in the larger scheme of things. Then an alligator has several hundred units of consciousness And then the next question is, what are we? Animals do not understand tomorrow. daydreaming about all these things. And when will animals become dangerous? The alligator is dangerous only because it has You see, robots can understand three dimensions.

58:14 Now, in the future, when they actually do have this ability, watch out, because then they're the ability to have consciousness, that are sort of ingrained in our genetics? into the robot because it doesn't come for free. There's no evolution. Robots do not evolve. So that's what everybody's ultimately afraid of, by our progeny, that is the robots, they will democratically decide how far to push themselves.

1:01:12 What I worry about is that we're giving birth to another kind of life. Why not merge with it? It's like, I don't want to do that. they will have already gone through that transition thousands of years ago. So you just want to pretend you're in the old timey days. Like you feel it when you're out there. You feel if you fell, no one's there to help you.

1:03:57 off this bear, but the bear just keeps coming towards them. That is not going to exist in It's a huge bear. That kid is hilarious. Yes, that's the problem. Probably, luckily for them. See, that's different than a hologram. No, it doesn't take the tension away because you almost didn't survive it. They just think of you as like another animal They're having a great old time.

1:07:03 There's something about that that's very, very therapeutic for people. And I don't think you're going to ever Well, look at Jurassic Park. This is a project they're doing right now in Australia, which is the – have you seen the thylacine before? What do you do with a Neanderthal boy? You don't want to. How close have they gotten with this Neanderthal thing?

1:09:37 Could a Neanderthal exist in our society? Well, their brains are bigger than our brains. And they mated with us. crazy experiment that I think most people would think would be very unethical. Yeah, but there's Are we going to stop it? Do they have rights? What if they become emotionally attached to you? then they're going to want not to be separated because their whole existence revolves around

1:12:22 And he's so much more superior than One of the robots is good It's an amazing movie. You are my creation. They never have cell phones. Mm-hmm isn't interesting like they never have all the stuff that we have they have the rocket ships that we have no cell phones Well, in the future, the No. Oh, you mean the company? So he was basically Iron Man, an exoskeleton.

1:16:06 as technology improves, that would also, it could become like a thin exoskeleton. talk to a computer, of course, be very tiny, could be as small as you want. But the computer itself is huge. your cell phone has more computer power than all of them. When you're saying absolute zero, you mean temperature? So you want these atoms to vibrate in unison.

1:18:39 Yeah, you see how awkward these... At the very bottom, you see the actual quantum computer at the very bottom. That little thing at the bottom. That's amazing. That's what it takes to cool it down. At the very bottom, at the very bottom, you see the actual quantum computer at the very bottom. So if the Internet is in your contact lens, you blink, and then you're connected to that via your contact lens.

1:19:42 That's right. That's right. maybe through the God equation, we could reproduce it. It takes us a gigantic, huge chemical plant to create fertilizer. It's fascinating stuff. recently understood and just basically understood over the last few decades. But people like Paul Mycelium are incredibly tiny threads of the greater fungal organism that wraps around or bore into tree roots.

1:23:31 But no, it's all, they're communicating, they're connected with each other in the forest. It seems to be insects. Our universe has stable protons out of which you Our universe is special. mathematically speaking, are not compatible with life. but it's hard for most people to even grasp the concept If the proton were not stable, then our universe also would be like that.

1:26:51 So we can actually look at these other alternate universes, and we see that they're not compatible with life. They would fall apart into a cloud of neutrinos and electrons. If stars burnt out more quickly, for example, because the nuclear force was stronger, stars would never ignite. Now, there's two ways of looking at it. But there also could be an infinite number of universes like ours and also an infinite number of universes that are completely incompatible for life.

1:29:32 Oh, well, Yeah, it's all Newtonian physics at work. Oh, your passion is very, very clear. Right. And for me, it's hard to believe how a person could not be thrilled when they learned The Planck energy is the ultimate energy of the universe, of the quantum theory. does nothing. But when you start to boil space, when you start to boil space to the planet temperature, all of a sudden it becomes unstable.

1:32:53 because empty space was heated to the Planck energy and at that point space itself began to rapidly, it has a force of, I think, a 10 kiloton atomic bomb. So you have to be out of the way when this thing explodes. So these are called baby universes. is a whole other story. But that would be a possibility of recreating a link between our universe and another universe. So we could potentially create one of

1:35:23 Where did Genesis come from? that intelligent life forms reach this capability? by a super intelligent life form always. and that's the point at which this bubble then starts to expand. That seems like that's, whatever we are right now, it seems like this is real temporary. wear makeup and so on and so forth. We've done this forever. The next step is to alter not just

1:38:31 is we have to stop being human. What's wrong with being biological? If all that can be eliminated, to want to do something great, to do something that makes a difference, that takes a lot of We're always trying to get better at everything, whatever we do. that seems silly. And I think in a democracy, that's one way to iron out the deficiencies within human behavior.

1:41:31 Unless you do it to control the technology. Unless you're the person that came up with Yeah, there's going to be competition involved. in this feast or famine world. Well, you know, the world we live in is digital. The world of the future will be I really do. with zeros and ones, zeros and ones. So yeah, we're talking about a whole new era. Now, of course, there's a downside to it.

1:45:44 with a quantum computer and figure out much more efficient, cleaner ways to do things. This will create more goods and services for humanity of knowledge to give empowerment to the powerless so that we can raise the standard of living of So it's really important as to who gets it first. That's right. And laws have to be passed so that we rein in some of these things.

1:47:54 The gate has opened. Do we have an accurate understanding of their ability? But those are the leading ones, using electrical circuits and using light beams. And we're talking about unlocking the secrets of life itself through DNA. what an immense change it is whereas my children are growing up having always You mean like the matrix? Well, the idea that one day there will be, whether it's through quantum computing or some other unknown, unforeseen technology that creates a reality, an artificial reality that's indiscernible from this reality, from the physical reality that we believe we currently experience? And if that's true, how do we know we're not in it already?

1:52:08 Now, once you go to quantum computers, it gets worse. But if we're talking about technology as we currently understand it today, and we're all connected to a computer that simulates the matrix. But if you walk If you extrapolate, Could you potentially see a future where some form of life could create a universe? Do you have a flight? I'm sorry. gonna eventually be on the table yeah I've thought about that I mean the

1:55:40 What's smaller than an atom is a nucleus. That may be possible. people are studying, how much time do you spend thinking about that? There's no law against stealing from an extraterrestrial civilization. Could you understand, though, how a government, if they were in possession of something like that, we stole that technology from the aliens. There's a huge paper trail, right?

1:59:06 and somehow beyond the other animals and that we're great. when you look at chimp genes and then human genes. created us. So it's hard to believe that mating with an alien could have done that. By looking at the internet, you see that there's a continuous line that goes from us to the chimpanzees to the primates. Because that's just brain size. I think the porpoise, for example, has a very large brain.

2:02:25 Yeah, possible. and then the ability to see the future. scientists ask the question, Well, that's what's so fascinating about giant leaps in technology is that they bypass our imagination and create completely new possibilities that we could have never even dreamed we were capable of. And the future, when these things do come to us, I mean, what are we looking at?

2:04:26 on and so forth. But when you look at things decade by decade, then you see that there is a progression. Because that's the name of the game. For example, the blacksmith. And so it's a balance between job destruction and job creation. I mean, you're great at it. Gee, I forgot. I mean, some people play golf. This is what I feel when you talk to people, because you're sharing your own excitement.

2:08:04 The next step is to make a the big boys, they're all jumping in the game and investing billions of dollars to create their What can they do, right? And then comes Microsoft. We showed, no, no, we can do things. You can do your income tax. You computers become commonplace, and they're already making recommendations. So for the post-silicon, But it does affect the progress for war.

2:12:11 nations steal secrets from other nations all the time. be commonplace. Now, there are ways to thwart a quantum computer. There are ways to get around it. And everybody else would use the ordinary internet. passed, just like freedom of speech is great, but you cannot say fire in a crowded theater. No, it'll be people that have to get votes to get reelected.

2:14:23 Well, let's hope the scientific community has a say. used to signal ships at sea. They didn't know what the transistor was used for. Now we realize going to listen to this back and forth and try to figure out most of the stuff you said. Thank you, sir. I really appreciate you always.