Joe Rogan Experience #2065 — David Grusch Transcript

Transcript

0:00 Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out! Thanks for coming here. And ultimately I got brought back in in civil service in a government way at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency a couple years ago at a senior level. Most of my career, I did a lot of behind the door, special access program, I was briefing a senior person at the CIA into a couple hundred special access programs.

2:52 that New York Times article came up that named the AATIP program and the OSAP program, so Why is the DIA looking into black holes, stuff. And I was like, Oh, that's like stupid. Why is the DIA, um, looking in the The answer is yes. shit is. It's either going to be weather shit. Maybe it's an adversarial program. Maybe it's the incident. So that's, to me, that sounds like ionizing radiation.

6:40 It was documented, yeah. So it was pacing his vehicle. happened to be this guy. Did he have any other experiences with this thing? No, this was like remember if people asked him about You know, there's a whole aerospace physiology kind of empire in the military. or try to get a gauge of. And, you know, just like myself, plasma edges like it was like purplish glowing edges and these three lights that had like these

11:04 And I went to search for that program. And that's what I ended up whistleblowing on. And he started discussing like, hey, there was a program. So that's, and that spooked me. reports for me to look at, you know, documents. And a lot of that I could cross-verify with other oral sources that my high-level colleagues or I talked to and you know it checked

14:28 in the intelligence community and Congress at the time and they – you are allowed to disclose to a government official in an official capacity and I did that and of course I protected So they could hear it and hear the details like who, what, when, where, why, where the shit is, July of 2022. And I eventually went to Congress in December of 2022. And it's a crazy story why

16:52 approval office because I wanted to show that this is much older and it's international. It's You could infer that. So basically it looked like it crashed, right? Like that. So it's so funny because the Italians were so confused. I'm not saying that's like the reason, but I think the Italians and the Germans were so intrigued with what they found from like an artifact perspective.

19:59 I assume some of the Italian researchers might have some fact witnesses that can orally say, oh, yeah, my great-grandfather found it or something like that. I mean, your guess is as good as mine. So what happened to that vehicle? You know, human intelligence collection wasn't really formalized until the Office of Strategic Services, the OSS, which became the CIA in 1947.

22:14 what it was? Yeah. I mean, first of it, obviously it's understanding the situation, right? What do you know, and it's a myriad of different things. That is something anybody who's been an intel officer, anybody with like a clearance has to submit that kind of stuff. vouching that you didn't say any nasty code words. You didn't burn a specific ongoing classified

25:00 So I think it's like a catch-22 for that office is kind of the long or the short Shit, let's put it out for the KGB SVR and GRU are now going to hit So this will give you an idea of the kind of people we talked to, decades. I tried to get access. And then he explained some of his efforts during OSAP. Did he witness? So the real history, what fucking OSAP was, because I think there's a lot

29:46 it's limited congressional reporting. That is a class of special access programs. And bigoted program, I submitted this shit to the officer, got this cleared. So don't freak out, but I'm was like bits and pieces of of of like hall structure shit like that and um uh so they I think it was on Weaponized podcast with Jeremy Korbel and George Knapp, where he's like, yeah, we had a whole craft and we broke into the hall and we gained access.

32:59 I don't actually know how they gained access. encourage both the Aero office, which is the DOD's UAP task force successor and Congress to ask Dr. the DIRDs, as a lot of people who's familiar with it listening will know about. that, but I ran that shit through security. Yeah, to me, it's like an out-of-body experience to talk other stuff behind the scenes that, you know, I wanted to speak truth to power on.

36:35 It may still be in the same location that I know about, yes. And how many people have access to You might be hot too. dude, you're going to, I can reach into something really crazy, but you're never going to publish And I've been briefed to a lot of that kind of conventional stuff in my career. the beans where, you know, look, we're on the program. I'm an engineer for X, Y, and Z.

39:34 I figured as much. weapon. counter-intelligence. You've got to remember, a bulk of this program was done during the Cold War, So I'll tell you about some intel documents I read that kind of obliquely answers that And so they certainly had a limited knowledge, at least fact of that the U.S. had a program like this, a particular adversary. You know, go to the vault and read

43:16 Don't ever fucking ask us about that shit again. are we aware of their reverse engineering programs? So are we aware of numbers in terms of at least a rough estimate of how many are available to these other? And has anyone made any progress? there needs to be a disclosure plan. And this goes back to what's currently in legislation right now. Reasonably classify that.

46:26 with the Schumer amendment, And I'm like, I'll be that fucking guy and just send it. So the amendment is wrapped in something called the Fiscal Year 2024 National Defense Authorization Act. They want a scientist, economist, you know, sociologist, etc. It's kind of like who you would want to help craft the plan for the president. And this whole bill was actually

49:58 and tell certain secretaries, we're coming in, we want your stuff, under presidential authority. So what's happening in the House, from what I'm told from people on the Hill that are working the issue right now, you have the chair of the House Intel Committee, Mike Turner, who's blocking this from Ohio, Dayton, Ohio area. He wasn't there, but his staff and lawyers were.

51:00 And pull up his PAC donors. representative on the Oversight Committee? material or something like that. Good friends of mine that worked on the program are bullshitting And I think it's like a death rattle in this industrial complex that doesn't want change. And I'm not here to be some total adversary. I think there needs to be a truth and reconciliation process on this issue.

54:15 But I talked to the highest of the high people you could possibly talk to to catch my drift. about what's happening. this stuff that we don't even know if it's extraterrestrial so this doesn't apply so recipient and their analytical overlay cognitively seeing the phenomenon based on a modern They're seeing these like disc type objects, right? So there might be some origins that we don't understand.

59:11 because you're going to get ripped to shreds or you're not coming back. basis, like casting shadows. So, and that might be some of what we're seeing too, but I mean, whether it be string theory or quantum mechanics are based off of higher spatial dimensions. And, of course he like leaves that space to come back to his daughter many years later at the end of

1:02:12 So the physicist Kip Thorne was the very famous guy. which is pretty cool, actually, that Christopher Nolan took it to that level, you know. I mean, that is certainly, as nuts as it sounds, that was a real subject of conversation. you know, the president and his cabinet need to disclose this in a controlled manner going back to that amendment. It's like this is serious.

1:05:40 and thorough, because I don't begin to say that I know everything, all the different And I swore an oath, but myself and my generation want to see it change. We're concerned because we think you might have an ongoing mental health issue. So I had to go through this whole process. I'm just debriefed now, but I maintained my top secret eligibility and I left with my own accord. And of course, they ruined one of my boss's careers

1:09:52 federal law enforcement local to me because it, you know, wasn't criminal, myself. earlier this year, Like, love talking to you. I like spreading this message because it's the right And I get kind of emotional about that because, you know, my career has been service and sacrifice. And, you know, I had two friends of mine die. And that's what gave me a lot of my problems that I ended up dealing with. But then I remarried. And then my best man, Captain Ben Hiney, Air Force intelligence officer, Air Force Special Operations Command. I've known him for years. He's my closest friend, best man at my wedding. And then 28 days later, uh, unfortunately he suffered

1:14:15 back to you know the wife and kids at the end of your shift and a lot of that i you know i did the And they certainly have their own trauma, but it's this weird insidious, I think my generation wants to change. People aren't even looking up. All they care about is TikTok. You know, we're creating potentially dangerous artificial intelligence. and the intel reports I read, you know,

1:17:52 And, you know, I remember some of the people who denied us access, they were like, you know, It's like basic fact of life. Section 1.4 sections E and F are why we classify science stuff, why we classify nuclear stuff. It's like well, who knows, maybe it is a nuclear weapon. And you're saying this is a U.S. nuclear secret. We left Afghanistan. No general officer, Mattis, Petraeus, McChrystal, I call them the failed generals. People, loud them, but really themselves in the Obama administration, Bush administration, except Trump, whatever.

1:21:26 Well, that's a part of the problem with people that have secrets. And I remember getting read into some stuff that like it was like the president and very limited number of people getting read into. And people really do enjoy having information that other people don't have access to. I'm an old man. But the like total numbers of like what's interacting with us on earth, I mean nobody knows that.

1:24:10 Right. Got burst right there for a lot of people. I stayed away from ufology some stuff or something like that yeah supposedly that's the story and it's very it's very hard to jackie gleason becomes a fanatic obviously that's crazy yeah i mean not was like, man. 70s is probably wild. I bet he was like that in a lot of ways. You know, I get it. I want to hang out with Nixon if that's how he was like, man. Well, I bet he was. The 70s is probably wild.

1:28:14 And if Jackie Gleason liked him, I'm a giant Jackie Gleason fan. And that's kind of how, you know, in my personal opinion, you know, how the program was protected. Yeah. Are there reports of some kind of interaction with these things where they're giving information or discussing the problems of humanity and possible solutions or explaining why they're here?

1:30:20 But the problem with that is it's like secondary information. Are there discussions of interactions with live beings? these discussions, do we have an understanding of when they first took place? crashed. Here's what I heard, whatever. I think it was maybe a movie. But yeah, it's bad. And I'm not the first former government official to confirm that.

1:34:37 And, you know, they want change, too. term, you know, my biggest failure was not to have Obama release the UFO file and made the same kind the final cut was. I'm like, dude, if I was file or briefing document or something that he had access to. I'm not taking any particular side. Public opinion. Caucasus region and stuff. Where are they? since I've been a kid,

1:39:31 never seen in my personal life, never seen anything weird. And it's funny you mentioned I'm higher predatory sentience. fearful of us in some sense. Or we're the progeny of, you know, personal opinion, progeny of some experiment and the, Yeah. speculation they believe that chimpanzees in particular have entered Some, you know, intelligent primate that has figured out a way to use tools.

1:43:08 Punctuated equilibrium is obviously another theory. And we seem to dispossess other skills. How do you know where all the corridors were and everything? gary might you know slap me later but uh it lights up with people who have those kind of skills. missile base, sketch the crane and where the silos are, what the status is. Satellite comes over, I don't remember.

1:46:41 weren't able to consciously communicate, you know, AKA, you know, the hokey term like telepathy, right. Um, and it's funny because that's, uh, what a lot of people espouse is a near-death experience. And he gets this like crazy, like the feelings of love, other stuff. that he knew like natively Yeah, um, and the act of creation is creating the universe where you me jamie whatever we might be connected to the same, I'll call it universal consciousness or a higher dimensional sentient life force or life form.

1:50:06 It's actually kind of enforcing the fact there's a creator and we're literally created in the image of a creator literally. And I think if you think about human beings as something that creates things, I think And of course, you know, people are like, well, why would they, you know, come here so far to crash, et cetera? which von Neumann probes are just like throwaway spacecraft. Like, what if they're just throwaway, which volume and probes are just like throwaway spacecraft?

1:52:05 so long, lengthy process, and if ultimately that led us to the creation of a technology It doesn't have blood and tissue and cells, but it has something that's superior. No, I have three dogs. extraordinary that are unusual that i had when i was younger, that I was an illustrator. It's extraordinary, and it's weird and and also this drive that she has i had a drive from poverty and from you

1:54:56 But there's so much chaos. some dull-minded people and you try to Yeah, where I'm going with it, like these biological limitations that we have, What's making technology? unless there's some sort of a natural disaster or some sort of a genocide. If something doesn't happen your phone in real time in conversation We're going in this direction. 4 versus chat GPT 5 which is going to be insanely superior well what with chat GPT-4 versus chat GPT-5, which is going to be insanely superior.

1:58:58 Yeah. That sounds nuts, but I think that's probably a better solution than humans with all of our fucking flaws and issues and greed and envy and all the things that we have. Or we will merge. It's not going to drain the ocean of fish so that we can make sushi. One of the main problems with human beings in terms of the ridiculousness of our actions,

2:00:56 Let's just keep fixing those and just exist the way we are right now, We don't have to worry about cell phones. So you can get your fix quicker and more efficiently or something like that. It does. it's right where they there's people at meta i guess now or facebook you know where they actually touch it. It's great too that you're an actual human, that you interact.

2:03:29 those things are constantly showing you the things that you engage and you know good stuff anymore, so I have to because what they are to me is Yeah. It's like totally, I want to have whatever Morpheus drove. Most people want the newest, latest, greatest thing. meteor or a nuclear war, we're going to fucking do that. There's like an open AI fiasco going on right now.

2:06:37 when I woke up this morning. Like, I think this is one of those things When I was talking to him about, you could tell, like, it's like a little bit like he kind of knows that he is at the forefront of this technology that worst case scenario replaces us. say it's a one-time whoop, you put it in there. How do you know it was, you know, hypothetically Russia that used the cyber weapon to attack you?

2:09:15 Yeah. And it's been very effective. They're already hiding who's responsible and what's the goal and how to manipulate consciousness for my old community because carrie grant uh you know doing a musical or whatever you know or whatever you know well And it's almost like having a permanent historian too. I know. they will no longer be a significant issue because you're going to be dealing with something that operates on a higher plane.

2:12:59 We're whatever the fuck we are that we recognize as being evil or dangerous or horrible about humans. evil, we don't have any of those properties. They don't exist anymore. We just have I don't know. completely in some other It's not as vulnerable. It's not, you know, a thousand light years. Fucking crazy. You're nine hours by plane and you're having instantaneous communication, which is wild shit

2:18:17 We're not using an Elon Musk starship to get here. It's fucking easy. He's confusing. He's on another level. why would they be interested in us? kind of the successor I'm more of a fan. But that book tripped me out. in colorado and i still have that boyhood fascination of the cosmos. I think we have a very limited idea of when we say God, when God created the heavens and

2:21:34 other things like a universe. if it keeps doing that, difference. Maybe that is So just like we're in the goldilocks zone It's just a, the Doppler fit Doppler shift, Which is obviously at least fairly limited in terms of what its potential is. knows yeah and this is just this little tiny neighborhood that we're looking at it's like but like he thinks it might be like a advanced form of homo sapien is what we're seeing coming

2:25:34 you know there's also like cargo cult religions and stuff you know the south pacific in world war These are gods. to be secret. It's too important. If it is real, it's too important for someone to have access to Whereas before, if you would talk about UFOs or the idea of extraterrestrial life, of existence itself, which is so complicated and difficult to manage.

2:28:26 of the universe itself. I'm sure everybody has it. you know, made lieutenant colonel here this winter, This is insane. the various forms of life that we know are currently, that currently exist. And you remember We're like, wow, CIA is looking into some really interesting stuff. Like, hey, I need you to look into some weird stuff What's the future for these disclosures and what are the bottlenecks?

2:31:58 If Congress can't get their shit together, to be quite honest. who's an anthropologist as well, Make this like, you know, it's dual use, right? develop a unique scientific process that actually works well with nanobiology or something like Soul Foundation, Ryan Graves has his own foundation as well for pilots I think, I'm still advising the U S governments on this and,

2:35:02 And there's still the bottleneck with these military contractors And because that was one of the main – I talked to some individuals that were in an informal session for a previous administration on should we disclose or not for a former president. And, you know, they don't get convicted of those crimes. Come on. We can protect you, et cetera. We didn't know what was going to happen next.

2:38:01 It's not going to be like kumbaya, This is crazy. want to be told that they're second-class citizens i mean a lot of presidents weren't And I hope that Joe Biden has been briefed on the program, so to speak. I think you've done a great service to humanity just by taking a stand and communicating these ideas and letting people know how much of this is real. And, you know, you've opened up a world of discourse that probably would not have