Joe Rogan Experience #2137 — Michelle Dowd Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. So when I heard your story, I was like this sounds completely insane Wow. And the Boy Scouts didn't allow him to have as much control in the late 1980s. He was completely, I don't think he graduated from high school. lived out of his particular mother, who was married down a well, he liked to say, and he escaped and he came to LA in the height of, I don't

3:29 No, you can't. No. Can you see how well that ended? But he didn't want his daughter to be an old maid and Want some more fire? Yes. I have a lot of ink myself, Now there was an- was considered a temptation to the boys. they allowed their first wedding, which is 35 years. And this guy had started a cult in Los Angeles. He had like two different names. So I think one was Michelle, and there was another one.

7:16 hey, we lost our children, they're with this guy I think he and he also was a kind of exotic looking, so he had this like guru If they are not, I mean, some people call it brainwashing, term like oh I want to quit smoking I'll go to a hypnotist and they set you in would never do before. but I think there's a lot of states that are very similar to hypnotism in that something

9:58 Yeah. But the one common denominator that they share is that if you do believe in these things, Because if you believed in stupid shit, No, no. but whatever you believe in, it's one thing to have a faith, but to not have the ability a little kid. But several of them have come out who knew my parents and of course knew And he was, you know, and then you'd get up and you'd run,

12:43 But at this point, he was 19, and he was beating the time he said in that time was in relation Oh my God. He was just some dude who like, you know, joined to this cult. And so he was getting kidney punches and all this stuff want to take him to hospital, but couldn't or didn't He got out maybe a year later, but he was, I mean, if someone gets a hold of you as a child

15:36 But I hadn't seen them since I was a little girl But that doesn't mean that they didn't prey on, you know, dozens, sometimes hundreds or They certainly don't have a charismatic leader like my grandfather once he died and his replacement was there and then once he died, I think it's become, When I'm hearing these stories about these boys and the abuse, that's what I'm thinking about.

17:51 I mean, there's obviously physical abuse, What's his name? because they don't let you bond. A clique they used to call it right any other groups where the another person could be in control One of the former members came out of the woodworks after this, and he said, You never trust anyone. But if you're an adult, like you're a grown adult, 34 year old man, and you meet this dude at the auto

20:42 that they continue to court, I would say you could call them groom And so they do more and more separation as you become a teenager. By the time you're 18, you're signing a commitment for life form. is that they're trying to get you in. Sure, they're seducing you in some way. There's Geez. It's like the Navy SEALs of cults. It kind of is. And there is a lot of physical...

22:55 So nobody knows what the hell's going on. And you're also a child, and you think that this is reality. they're, like, in prison. she was always a working woman, minimum wage working woman. But this was in the 1940s. You just got on the bus, went to school, walked home from school, get sucked into that. jackpot like eventually I'm gonna get a date with this girl. Like this is amazing. You know, I was probably 1920, I guess, 2021 maybe.

26:30 And I said, I can't, I have plans this weekend. I go, but if you guys ever do another one of those things, that sounds like fun. So Monday morning, or whatever the day was, I'm in school, and we're skid across the runway, and there's all these crazy sparks. I got to go to class. I can't be involved in this. You could have got those people with Mormonism.

28:25 The person is always curious about human beings. They teach you to follow someone else's faith. I think if you tell me a story and I tell Jamie the story and then Jamie tells someone They had some ideas of like the formation of the universe the beginning there was light sound a lot like the Big Bang you're gonna have a lot of that especially when you have high control

30:56 it to be so. Yeah. They just generally I mean you're seeing that right now in universities like people are trying to reinterpret certain events because of the way people feel about which is really fascinating. I did when I was a kid. I actually had Bible class in Florida. When I moved from San Francisco there's fucking alligators everywhere. It was like, what are you people retarded? Why do you have giant

34:43 so 75, 76. Speaking of which, I need more fire. Yeah, it's a little weird because it's all black and so it kind of blends in especially if you're like us and your eyes are But so one of the things that a lot of people who have read the Bible but I read the whole thing cover to cover when I was eight. Well, there's, for example, And where we came from, we were taught,

38:04 out how to get her husband back so that her husband can go sleep with her, and her husband won't do it because he's Pete Dirty David. Oh my God. But you can fact check that one if you'd like. Oh no I believe you. And so there's four women who are named. And as a child, that was really interesting of her dead husband and that man would not give her a child because he didn't want to

40:35 And so Onan gets killed too. And so she dresses up like a prostitute and goes to the side of the road. And as he's got from the father of the baby. And so then he ends up protecting her and she gets to Kirsten Khire, Ph.D. Of course. Depending on who you ask. So that's not considered the Word of God, what you're reading that is considered or Yeah, it is.

43:34 If this doesn't feel right to you, please don't do it. You know, I don't know whether or not the stories were transcribed accurately or not, Well. If the people in charge if we're living in 1963, how long does it take before people figure out that Iraq mean, but they control the narrative. Completely control the narrative. It's a good name. problem is there was another woman who was married before and it didn't work out with the original

47:10 that lived, they know what they said, they know where they ate, they know where they went, they But the Gospels that are written about Jesus were written after right not during and that was you know common When you have Matthew Mark Luke and John, these are the versions that they were told so I don't know maybe a hundred years if the early emergence of humans in the world, let's imagine what they mean by this story if the early emergence of humans in this world

50:14 explained to mankind what they're doing wrong and lived this amazing life and taught Yeah, but you know what Jesus did really well? Jennifer Well, in the story of the prodigal son, there was this... And Jesus tells this story, And he finds that he runs out of money. so grateful his son's returning to him. Maybe that's the, I don't know what the real interpretation is, right? But like, when you

53:03 And we know how that goes. Very slippery. Because you could start believing all this nonsense. You could start believing what. Right. Which is a problem, which is a a real problem if you want to like put all your eggs in one Yeah, I think there's universal truth in all that stuff. And maybe if God exists, okay? didn't know the difference and then they partake of the tree of the knowledge of

57:08 Like that could, it could be like a test. Okay, well it was, I don't know if it was taught in schools, or science in it and a lot of things, But even if you don't believe in religion, in the world, don't be murdering people. But maybe he really is. and then sees the light and goes back to his father. And they were trying to sort it all out. He's a fucking Roman.

1:00:31 And if you go back 2,000 years before him, when people started writing all this stuff You think about where to find whatever it is when you're a I had so many phone numbers in my head. I still remember the phone number of the field. And one of the big things was surviving the apocalypse. that I had as a kid, but it taught me to look around everywhere that I've been ever since

1:02:16 I mean, if someone could teach you survival techniques, how to survive the apocalypse. I don't remember. It was not that long ago. Monday through Friday, live open forum on familyradio.com That was the end of the Mayan calendar. Oh, right, yeah. It was wild. So to say that was the end of the world seems a little silly. killing all the babies and he didn't really know the date of Jesus' birth.

1:05:06 I didn't even know Lilith existed It was an eye opener. Oh, Satan. Mandean? hot fiery female who first cohabitated with man. considered part of the Apocrypha. So, I mean, I don't have any idea what the truth is, but I will not take a stab on that. Well, looking at the stars is storytelling, too. for everyone that lives in cities. that you have to use a microscope or a telescope to see. It's right in front of you and it's

1:09:51 I've heard it's incredible out there. And it's a big factor, factor I think in how lost we are and how it's you're we're not like was somewhat of an astronomer. is obviously but then you also have to know what time of year it is to some degree so And you can tell that by the angle of the sun. with faith. First thing? Have you been in a desert night?

1:12:11 If you don't want to be found, you need to know Jesus. Wow, and you guys were preparing for this when you were little kids. Yeah Didn't they do a bunch of movies? in order to try to win the last people, the only good person left and he wants to like help the people in the town or Jonah if you're trying to teach them to do something that other people don't know

1:14:51 So right now you're preparing for the end of the world. Well, you know, I walked in your lair and I'm like, okay Really hard to get that out of your head. which I was, that like everybody in your group is trustworthy, you don't see the signs. taken their lives after being excommunicated from the fields. And I had a dear friend, They got duped into this nonsense.

1:17:17 Not just that, but everybody's susceptible to it, whether you believe it or not, especially You're a 35-year-old you. going to kill him and he, God has told him he must do this and so he like ties his own son on this altar and brings up the knife to kill him. And God has told him he must do this, and so he like ties his own son on read it, he thought, no, it's not that our parents would have sacrificed this, they did

1:19:15 It is there like groups of people that get together that have survived cults that have and your emotions. Yeah. 17. So I got married. mean- And also, because I was sick and because of other things, Yeah. But you can learn a lot when you see a refrigerator that has food in it. Hey, they made a show about you! And Handmaid's Tale too. unspoken rules about the dance of friendship.

1:23:03 They just thought you were weird. I was so afraid that if I, I also felt like I was He has just the most amazing friends who are his family But some things you have to eat with your hands like if you're eating ribs But there's something we do in Western culture because we're so in our minds instead of our bodies Right, and which side is the salad fork, which side's, which one's the regular fork.

1:25:11 The microcosm cultures of any sort of culture The thing about like not knowing where the forks and knives go to me is one of the dumbest ones of all time floor and I have this beautiful rug in my house and I'm like if people will do Well if your hands are clean. They got a really good point. OK. That's ridiculous. They don't want to get messy and give them a fork and a knife and keep everybody proper and everyone's trying to press everybody else

1:28:06 By the way, that is the most bullshitty, bullshitty moment you ever have in a restaurant. You Really? with women's liberation and stuff, That may be. Yeah. I would assume the lady would not be making the choice. if you order wine and you pour it for them, they can drink. And that's No. I did not know that. and nuts like almonds and pistachios The world's oldest cannabis treat. yeah, I probably should try it

1:31:29 Yeah. means that when they et cetera, et cetera. they don't have any real friends really impoverished by knowing people and moving in unison and having comfort, but not I used to do this thing when my babies were little where I was reading about other cultures and I put them all over my house and they they should be able to find me But I did it so cerebrally, you know?

1:34:36 So how did you figure out how to open up? the world on your own trying to decipher what the fuck the outside world does. You know, it's like this, I don't know, He actually was my biological grandfather. Right. No. But it's not about religion. Well, she does call, she calls the guy God, who created her, How do I not know about this? But in any case, it's an adult brain put today. Yeah, there are. There are too many. Too many movies, too many things.

1:37:50 from, I feel like I don't come from an era too, like kind of like the way that Did you guys listen to any music? And you know, like in the, I think 1600s, thing that I got ultimately kicked out for was going to a movie with a boy who darkness and then the way that the screen lit up and I just, it was so beautiful. I just felt. I had all these little kids and I was doing, you know,

1:40:29 And he introduced me to the songs of, religion in relation to music. And it was just this wonderful music education so I did all you know what it is, I could learn to code switch And so for example my brother who loves you as I told you Yeah, and we as a family, you know So there's long-term consequences Yeah. Were you at a rush to try to find a new one?

1:43:40 cult. And I was raised, of course, to believe I'd be struck dead by lightning if I ever talked about it. Wow. How did you, do you attribute it any specific, like is it meditation, is it yoga, So it's not just humans, but it's animals, plants, whatever. You just need to know where you want to go. And this earth, like it is capable of nurturing seeds.

1:45:50 then I feel like that, I guess it's that neuroplasticity thing, like I can always grow. It gives you like this feeling of connectedness to everything it. And that is so primal. The only people that, you have to be like really, There are. Oh yeah, for sure. roads and shit and everything yeah but you actually can get GPS out there not But what I'm saying is GPS could coordinates that your maps work

1:49:59 Right. So you're going to have to find some other ways to identify. Your phone will know where it is, can do that with certain apps like there's Onyx, Onyx Hunt. It's a map app application They're going deeper into the woods and you know another thing about like going deeper in the woods like humans are prone to circular movement from doing that because you will naturally,

1:52:04 to walk in a straight line. Yeah, stay put. And then they figured out a system like by watching the sky or if they had your, we should they didn't have any idea how to do basic survival. Actually, the teenager living a city would be impossible for prehistoric people too, like just, I mean, No one's going to teach them. Where you get supermarkets, trucks, all those inventions, everything's coming out of cities,

1:54:58 Like all the things that we make remove us our true nature, we'd be a lot less susceptible to all sorts and everything's part of a much larger system. We're very removed from it. And if you don't know that and you're a 17 year old kid who just gets released from a I mean I could fight back to whatever degree, God, what a wild experience. That show is hilarious.

1:57:27 to do a creative shopping agreement, whatever. in front of me today. It's a wild ride. And she said, well, I did my fact checking before we booked her, and it's in the cult they don't know if it's are that like freedom of speech that we have going on They got thousands of dudes threatened to sue the IRS. But also, if you declare yourself a religion, then you do get tax exempt status.

1:59:34 I would not have told you. Yeah. don't think of it as... We have this problem like religion, cult, different things. But Like there's this very blurry line. There's these inner circles that are much much more more devout But it's one of those things. And you got time they got Sea Org and he's got like this military jacket on and just gave himself a bunch

2:02:35 You could feel the energy. just a dude who joined Scientology and now part of his job is to go out and convert, So it was interesting, it was like, got the people at the top don't want to do that it was very weird I feel like Anybody that reads that story the story of the Thetans and the volcano and the aliens and the spirits. It's really interesting. It's crazy

2:04:35 Yeah. like the aliens throw the fucking frozen souls and the volcano, all that crazy shit. I think I think back then you called wasn't online and they never stopped sending me shit. have self-helped in a sense. So what has been the most useful to you in being the kind of person you want to be? Those are the big ones those the psychedelic drug breakthroughs are the ones where you...

2:06:43 exactly how you used to because you have a pattern you're accustomed to or They might have even had interaction with God. I think they probably shaped a lot of the way people formulated their ideas about religion. Absolutely. And I think that a lot of people believed that it was the forging Right. Because that's where the mushrooms grow. I mean, is it a coincidence that mushrooms grow on cow shit?

2:09:07 Like some of their writings, what's left. But the thing about psychedelics though that is so beautiful compared to cults, and cults Yeah. open to interpretation and you know, you could just tell them that you're connected to God in a very unique way and also you're a and I ask you questions, Well, I'm sure a lot of people. you have to do to get people to believe you were really Jesus?

2:12:09 Nobody believed him. Well that would be, that's the really scary thing to think that if the Son of God really They think it's bullshit. They think it's the government and the government's lying to us about that. They're from another planet Like if Jesus really did come back and there was some fundamental Christian is Right, you can fall into the wrong group of people.

2:14:25 Like send me to Manhattan. No, He said just bring me to earth and he just dropped him Concrete structures and roads and metal for bones and metal forks. Yeah, that's what's changed Yeah. in a digital space too. I think when people gang up on people online on Twitter and those physical space, but I think it exists in a digital space too. out of the modern human organism?

2:16:28 It's one of the most important things I should say because you can induce enough stress voluntarily Do something like that, and the physical act I would guess that may be true. I would bet that's true. A lot of the people that I know that terrorize people mob mentality way you interact with it. but if you are a person that has a gambling addict addiction, if you are a person that has a gambling addiction, if you're a

2:18:48 everything, I think. I think these are just like normal patterns and I think Just like when you have a cough, you're physically ill. basis. And you see that bleed out too, right? You see people act like they're on Twitter If you do that face, if you talk to people face to face the way people talk to people Arguing over everything cultural, everything environmental, fill in the blanks, climate

2:21:03 I mean, I don't know if they said it all out, but they have They definitely they grants and funds they put money into things they to things. It's, what they've done is wild. It's wild. Most certainly. in order to adopt certain things. they believe it it's like Jesus like this is we're all the cult You can do wild things with it. Yeah, get people to rat on each other.

2:24:06 that you experienced and what it was like to be normal childhood American experiences and you have to kind of relearn everything. willing to stand back and say, wait, I don't believe this. I think this story, that only they have, and it comes from a mystical source. So at least today We know that You know in 1930 when your grandpa first started me. He was just

2:26:09 because he had a magic rock. There's only a few women that have been successful cult What is it? Right. So I've been teaching in prisons, by the way, it's been part of my career, and I worked Right. If you were 12 years old and your whole life, you'd lived in that cult and you were because they're strong, but also because they're mentally unaware of the conflicts of the world. It's really

2:28:58 this whole world. And honestly, once people start believing you, it's probably a pretty but it's just like, goddamn, that pattern just repeats Right. that's just some sort of weird evolutionary response like because in Like you had to know how to make an arrow. Of course. we still had the desire to have one individual leader because we have this primate genetic

2:31:42 been sharper. Like, what do you shut up? You're in a cult. You're in a cult. Just like if you were in the Moonies, and you never even know what the fuck is going on I think you and I believe is that it's always more questions. Like we don't have the answers, What is that stuff? What's all that stuff? There's so much that we don't know. Definitely don't try to harm people

2:34:29 to get you to do things. You got a fucking YouTube video I can watch? at the very least a massive mystery But at the end of the day, this is a crazy mystery that you went to bed eight hours ago for. You assume, but you just re-engage with reality. It's a requirement. Yeah. Yeah. Instead of just being awake all the time What the fuck is going on in dreams

2:37:42 If you want to have the wildest dreams, take nootropics before you go to bed a bunch of crazy ones too that I remember I even wrote a bunch of them down because but it is pretty fun if they're scary. a couple of times, and every time I've done it, I still dream about the field. Really? That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Because then you're And your prefrontal cortex is not completely formed.

2:40:22 It wasn't bad at all. Yeah. and he really said this and I, it was, because he wasn't talking about it. but the kinds that are like really deeply disturb us. That doesn't sound that scary. Like running from wolves. They freak me out. I have a strange Shepherd's and then my dog is a love sponge. Right, but the reason that you love your dog is the same reason that wolves love each other. You know, I mean, there is this because they're part of a pack and because they understand

2:43:22 Yeah. That's really, that's what the Big Bad Wolf is all about. Wow. wolves. Yeah I mean they're reintroducing wolves now to Colorado they They put strychnine in horses and they left them out there You're gonna lose a lot of folks. A lot of people are gonna be camping. They're gonna get surrounded. They're scary animals, but they're also amazing. Yeah, we they just fucking go over that hill like it ain't shit

2:46:36 Yeah, it's not really a very practical skill that you don't really have to do that on a and you put all the vegetation in, Mm-hmm. but you are gonna need to, at some point, And anything that has, I mean, cactus can give you water, but you're not going to get You dig a pit. and the water. so you can collect more. Water is really important, way more important than food.

2:49:13 Yeah, like even if you're not fat. Yeah, you'd look like shit at the end. Yeah, of course I mean, I learned them for a lot of years and it gets inside of you. And I think that's No, I've been like actually picking things out of the ground that I didn't plant I don't mean gardening Every chapter of my book has like these descriptions of something you can eat in the Angeles National

2:50:57 Mushrooms are scary. See this Argericon that Paul Stamm is gaming? Wow. That one's staying on the table. It's good for your immune system. Like being in sterile environments probably the worst thing for your immune system. Yeah, I'm like atrophy That's actually been studied. Yeah, like just sort of like exercise right? Like if you don't exercise your atrophy if you don't experience

2:52:15 Thank you. All right. I am on Twitter, but not a whole lot. It wasn't the first Michelle Dowd I've ever seen, unfortunately. Bye.