Joe Rogan Experience #2180 — Jordan Peterson Transcript

Transcript

0:00 The Joe Rogan Experience. suitable and I wear them. You've gotten quite extravagant, though. Like sometimes, He was a teacher and he always wore a suit even in the 70s when that started to become And then when I went on tour in 2018, of the things that happened in consequence of that was that people so I gave him a crack at it because he put so much work into it and that worked out real

3:31 Well, look man, well, you know, look, here, part of the reason that you're so successful, And that means that you're letting the words emerge as they come to you. wrestling with your conscience A lot. We're like a microcosm of the process that gives rise to order itself. And you approach that with a certain kind of orientation. To do what's right. Now, you might say, like Pontius Pilate said,

8:01 And that's, well that's often the statement that gets Christ confused with the hippies, you know, order that's good. And your job is to walk the line between them. resolving his order. what it is that we're arguing about. Yeah, but you know, he's had major health crises, right? Didn't he have some sort of a stroke or the universe itself as a conscious entity, whatever it is.

13:40 exist in. Sure. Moses is an adult. He's left his home, he's gone out and he's got married, he's apprenticed but the Holy Mountain is always the place where heaven and earth touch. And so there are all It hasn't made you a full individual, but it's better than being immature and staying That's what metabolism is and so a burning bush is like life itself intensified to the ultimate degree

17:35 Moses' baptism. And so what does that mean for the ordinary person? Well, it means that you need to And then if you investigate that, that will transform you. Are you aware of some of the more recent work that's been done by scholars in Israel where of years no doubt and they've had a profound cultural consequence one of the things that You're following where your interest takes you, and your curiosity takes you.

20:54 the No, no, no. It's a problem because to really understand what he's saying you'd have to have a deep understanding of those ancient language To an ancient Sumerian word that means a mushroom covered in God's semen. back to the origin of the word Christ. But it's very tortured, like to really understand and to be able to dispute it. God and the word love apparently have the same numerical value. That is a bizarre concept

24:20 They're separate. guy studies this for 14 years, 14. And he was the only ordained minister that was a looking for psychedelics to be a part of everything. Yes, it's a very serious book. Like a scholar. a lot of it was fertility rituals and psychedelic experiences, and that they were hiding a lot things that have vastly different effects. It covers caffeine, it

28:27 celebrated them and used them. I should probably find it out to give him credit. And he goes, yes. And then we start this conversation oldest version of the Bible, the only version that, I believe the only version they have that. Like, with that understanding that that's possible, the world changes. that people look at it as like, oh, you're just escaping

32:41 Observed primates flipping over these cow patties looking for beetles encounter high-dose psilocybin experiences that would lead you to the development of language. Glossolalia, the made people people, it's a mystery. We want to pretend that we understand things because That's what they did. Everything. Psilocybin, marijuana, all down the board. Everything becomes schedule one.

35:56 have big hair and the music sucks. It's like something happened. Something happened. What happened was they completely removed the very thing Nobody wants your fucking 1990 car. to be on drugs. These guys were, they felt something the same way Hendrix felt something massive disservice to our civilization, a massive disservice, because it's equated these things with people

38:20 Almost all of them have had these experiences. correctly, if we could run proper studies about what is the correct dose. Is there for soldiers, for our military men and women coming back from overseas experiencing horrific We've got to keep it off the streets. Our whole thing is disconnected, and I have a feeling that a big part of that is that That comes with a lot of weight.

41:58 I suppose that's the box of conformity. that is the celebration of an unlimited hedonistic freedom. But the problem with that is that step outside of that into worship of the golden calf like an hedonistic orgies, unbelievably, unbelievably potent and destabilizing. Now that destabilization Well, if everybody goes their own enlightened way, let's say there's no

45:26 Right. Right. It's the best possible... Yeah that people just should aspire to. It's him. So God comes to Abraham as the call to adventure, and that's a very useful thing to know. you have the adventure of your life, this is what will happen. You'll be a blessing You'll be a blessing to other people in that regard. So what this story does is it takes the call to adventure,

49:47 Because if you're going to move into the razon of the transcendent, So, Moses tells the Pharaoh to let his people go, Now you're somewhere unstructured. terrified by that kind of hedonistic anarchy. It's not freedom. It erupted. I mean, we're right now in 2024. I want you to imagine 2014. It's the same. It's the same. There's nothing problem. That was the problem. It's a major problem. Well, it's still a problem now to some degree

53:23 functional husband to your wife, right? is what the clinical psychologists misled people into believing it, it's more like the harmony that obtains That's a very that's a pretty straightforward question has very little to do with anything. That's even vaguely superstitious Nothing calls you on your moral impropriety? wandering off the straight and narrow path. That's more the voice of

56:55 The interaction between what calls you forward and upward and the constraints of your own conscience that warn you when you're Yeah, yeah, you have to be able to see it. And it's hard. And you have to want to see it. Yes, I'd seen all these things and because I didn't feel protected, I genuinely felt Was that discipline? discipline is doing something you hate,

59:58 Islam Makachev who is the UFC lightweight champion the pound-for-pound best fighter on earth You cannot maintain fight camp all year round. must do the live wrestling drills. You must do the shark tank where they throw That made that hard work easy, right? That's a key thing. So that's a key thing don't have a goal, you have no positive emotion. every time you see movement towards it you're going to get, what would you say,

1:03:25 decides that he's going to go out in the world. And every adventure is marked by the That's basically it. I was a kid. Because the sacrifices get higher in value as the developmental progression upward continues. complete it's as if he's a different person. And now those stories are maps of even, which is that sacrifice is the basis of community, which is exactly right. Because

1:06:25 Right now he does it. He gets him back. off the cross. It's like the female crucifixion. And the idea is that the good mother, the Well, every woman who brings a child into the world knows that the child is going to And it's so good. Like the work, like look at his foot. Just look at like the detail relevant to your question. So God offers Abraham the opportunity to be the father

1:10:13 it is, no matter how challenging or daunting or malevolent it is, you've got OK, so that's what Abraham plays out. descendants successful in the multi-generational manner, then you father that's why Abraham understands that he's made contact with the God of Like, the fact that you're married, so what's the sacrificial gesture there? And we figured that out.

1:13:41 ever been explained to me that way, and I don't think most people And that's a ter- it's the most terrifying demand, because a tragedy tragic is that the tragedy befalls a good person. Because if a tragedy befalls Right. Brought about by people who knew that he was not only good, but the best of men. you have to Right. And so, and you're right, there is this defensive element to the, particularly the Protestant religious tradition, although I don't want to single out the Protestants specifically, that insists that, you know, the work has already been done,

1:18:15 to allow you to bear up nobly under the burden. And all the clinical evidence Where were we? We'll see. Mmm, so that's the plan you want to see the opening the opening salvo sure yeah puts it up put it up We have a groupthink emerging and that warps the entire academic enterprise. everybody. Well that would be good. I think it's funny because I got canceled at

1:21:41 Bizarre. my team, Fort Peterson Academy. I mean, is it possible to rejuvenate the bricks and mortars That's not good and thoroughly and it's a very rotten ideology. It's the spirit of Kane, the resentful spirit of Kane. coming 20 years ago. They could have found their best lecturers and they could have filmed paid miserably. That's especially the true case in the UK. All we have to do

1:24:46 for about $2,000 over four years. Wow. Yeah, yeah, we have a great social media platform. So I don't and we're hoping that we can produce a community of people who are responsible and achievement oriented And so we can fill the whole background with imagery and graphs and comments. It's amazing we've been able to do this to study the properties of the cosmos time scales of billions of years size scales

1:27:44 Yeah, well, and I was so happy when I saw the trailers, you know or you will you be giving degrees? them directly to employers. we're trying to address. Now I'm in discussion with a number of different Record keeping process that we use as part and parcel of the platform. So I think we can do it different languages and we built and developed technology to capture people

1:31:24 It's very exciting. It's really exciting. And it's, you know, there's all sorts of weird German, and French, I believe. Those are the first three languages, but they there's, you know, there'll be more people in Nigeria by 2100 than in China. that it's wrong, and it'll tell you where in the lecture and the reading material that together for conventions.

1:33:50 as well because as you know well far more people can listen and watch than hoping at least that the Peterson Academy will do with the production quality of our courses is up the ante. It's like even if we fail financially basically all they do is put up a camera and videotape a lecture. It's like you can't do that. That's that $300,000 for an Ivy League education because that's where they meet their wife or their husband when it gets right down to it Is that really what it is? Well, Joe look you never know what an institution is doing. Okay, so what does the university do?

1:36:47 things. Now we're trying to replicate that on Peterson Academy with the Well, we're doing what we can to replicate that online. And we're going to make sure an education and and seeking people out in learn. Right. And the courses are subversive in the most traditional Arne is in exactly the same category. their own administration. And these were like the best professors I ever met in

1:40:31 15, pretty much when things blew up around me. That's why they blew up around me. You Believe that the world emerged as the interaction of two forces. We already alluded to them chaos and order Chaos and order come together and they produce the first world and in the Mesopotamian Okay, that's what a carcass is. Disney's another example. And what's happened is, and this happens all the time,

1:44:03 things right has eyes all the way around his head, so he pays attention and he speaks magic words. How are you going to do that? That was even worse than Marxism, which was really quite the bloody achievement With that publication record, I just interviewed Carole Swain. Do you know who Well, the woman from Penn, when she was smiling, The spirit of Marx is a very old spirit. It was alive in the French Revolution. It was alive in the Soviet Revolution

1:47:18 And so you have Cain on the one side. He says something like, you're blaming your bitterness on your failure, and you have failed, and you know it, and you didn't have to, And so he kills Abel. He kills his own ideal. And Abel, you have Cain who makes poor sacrifices and whines about it. And you can understand Cain's point, you know, because people do

1:50:11 And so that's all disunity anxiety hopelessness social that there's an ultimate form of sacrifice, and that's what's demanded of you if you're like an objective analysis and ideology and ideology. And so you're strapped with debt. so you must work, and then you must work within these term, like if people can get employment. You know it's interesting like... Well as

1:54:06 Yes. And I know that that problem is solvable because I know how to do that. I don't know if the erosion of jobs is inevitable. some systems that my colleagues have developed. We built our own large Yeah, so that was really something. Yeah, yeah, well it doesn't know. Like it will produce a reference for you that's completely plausible, except that it doesn't exist.

1:56:47 what will the addition of these AI systems mean to us? God, well I talked to Elon about this when we had our interview and it's going to depend to religious and humanities education. because that provides an axis of stability around which all other knowledge can be organized. Okay, so what's the answer to your question? Okay, so there's an implication that comes along with that.

1:59:27 to the degree that you've allowed it to It's like, get rid of the corrupt motivation. Histrionic types and the borderlines and the antisocial personalities is that they never matured cortically incorporate the views of other people. That's how kids at three start to develop the ability It's like there's a real difference between maturation and immaturity. Maturation is productive and sustainable, and immaturity is divisive and

2:02:52 of your function of your mind or your brain. To subdue the world. that idea of a magic wand. It's the traditional place to put information. And so, well, that's what we hope we can offer with Peterson Academy. That's the Yes, the premise of the postmodernist is that there's no uniting metanarrative cardinal power games is economic. And it is probably the cardinal power game, right? There's

2:07:05 Yes, and a large percentage because that's the culture in which they're existing. Gender is an oppressed versus oppressor narrative. Wild. Right? That is wild. So how do they protect themselves? It's like well those people's oppression is what's causing their lack of law abiding what what conducts like no Okay, so they're psychopathic. That makes them predatory and parasitic. That's the definition of a psychopath.

2:11:37 That was the dark triad. And what further investigation revealed that you had to add So now your question is, well how do we segregate It's like, crimes there's the unfortunate reality that people mimic their environment. Right. Women, they get initiated by nature. In every society that we know of, men have to be initiated. someone comes up to me and tells me that reading say 12 rules for life had helped

2:15:41 Why did it make a difference to you to read that it's time for you to develop your shadow side because of course he becomes a thief and And it is one of the rings that unites everything, power. that's a terrifying thing. There's no difference between that and the dragon and treasure stories Right. What do you mean by that? Oh yeah, the intent. most trusted and respected source of news and that their intent was just to destroy? Yeah, it wasn't the news. It wasn't

2:20:14 It's kind of fucked up. And that's very stressful. And this is all just... what it affects is what in Canada? know and are too cowardly to admit. That's a major part of it. They went after me because I went after Trudeau and Right till they're satisfied that I've learned whatever the hell lesson I'm supposed to learn facilitating the straight game.

2:24:53 Well, there's a variety of principles at stake. stop or lose all of the woke licensing properly trained they know that all of anxiety. If you're depressed and anxious, you have a proclivity towards depression and anxiety. Have a boyish figure and Chloe's a very attractive person. She would have had no trouble attracting thing I've seen professionals do, not only in my lifetime the worst thing. It's the worst thing. I've seen professionals do not only in my lifetime

2:28:21 is. yeah. Because otherwise insurance won't pay for it. So they were willing to even Michael Schellenberger, who broke the WPATH files, when we talked about I'm gonna say it again, they're worse than what the Mengali types did in the Policy. In fact, you're punished by your governing boards if you don't go along with it. then they're encouraged that's they're given positive feedback yes definitely

2:31:54 the witch in the Hansel and Gretel story. Yeah. Gingerbread house, that's a little bit too good It's just so stunning how widespread it is. stuff? Yeah, right. Oh god, and it's essentially chemical castration drugs that they used to use I'm going to try some of them. So that's fun. Vervecky. I really like John. He's so damn smart the boy crisis with Warren Farrell

2:35:17 He's had a remarkable impact on thought over the last 140 years. It's reasonable to say that he philosophized with a hammer because his thought is extraordinarily condensed. To read Nietzsche is And this is one way to do it.